You guys forget the obvious - a level 20 Champion Dwarf with Shield Master, Res Dex, Dwarven Fortitude, Durable, and ASIs sprinkled in to get to 20 Con. You can literally outlast every single spell level of damage they can muster. You don’t need to attack, just dodge until the Wizard has literally used every single damaging spell they want to cast. Once they’re down to Cantrips they can’t even do enough damage mathematically because with your dodging and defenses their damage output will never out-point your regeneration. Once you’re back up to half health, just chop away until the Wizard is dead.
I did a bunch of creation stuff early on, I’ll have to dig it out.
1. You assume you even need damage to end the encounter...there are several ways to simply kill the dwarf (Polymorph then Disintegrate or Power Word Kill) without worrying about it.
2. If the dwarf is hoping to out do damage they will not do it with the set up you have....as even if they dodged once per turn they are looking at 10 (CON Mod of 5 x 2) minimum HP per turn and since they can only use one hit dice they will not even really notice the HP gain.
Animate objects deals an average of 29.3 damage per turn as bonus action on top of what ever spell you want to cast as an action.
The fighter you propose has 224 HP and can gain approximately 10-12.5 hp per turn with the dodge action (Completely forgoing their attacks) and 10 hp from champion.
Even just using animate objects the wizard can deplete this "extra" HP pool of the fighter with a BA only per turn really easily. Especially if they use a spell to get ADV on the attacks with the animated objects.
Really this is a terrible build as they will not even do damage....which is the best thing a fighter has going for it when it comes to ending a fight as quick as possible.
3. You simply target a mental save. Nothing in your build makes them very good at attacks against their WIS, INT, or CHA.
4. Simply have them fail it as a Chrono wizard.
You can polymorph them into an octopus then power word kill the fighter without the fighter ever even making a save roll.
You are mostly correct here, but a small point of order: The Polymorph - Disintegrate combo no longer works, as the spell was errata'd a few years back. Power Word Kill still works, though.
You are mostly correct here, but a small point of order: The Polymorph - Disintegrate combo no longer works, as the spell was errata'd a few years back. Power Word Kill still works, though.
"Aye laddy try and hit this!" The dwarf rolls back and forth on the ground dodging.
The wizard sighs....why do these fighters keep coming?
He casts Maze on the fighter. The fighter blinks out of the prime material. There is no save here....no chance to use indomitable nor does the wizard have to use their convergent future.
The fighter not being the bright type has an INT of 8....meaning he will never make the 20 INT save required to exit the maze early.
The wizard casts Wish asking to replicate the Simulacrum spell. A copy of himself instantly appears next to him.
"Right the ol' microwave again if you would"
The sim nods and holds a spell for when he sees the familar lights....
The Wizard Prime casts Sickening Radiance on where the dwarf was. This prompts the reaction from his simulacrum to cast a Wall of Force around the cloud.
The dwarf reappears in the cloud and must now make a CON save...its ok he is good at these!
He makes it! But after a minute and 10 saves he realizes....he will not make them all. 100 saves later the dwarf is dead from exhaustion. His chances of success where slim but he gave it a valiant effort.
The two wizards put on a spot of tea. "When will the silly stabby men learn?"
Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.
The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.
I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.
Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.
The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.
I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.
Point One:
“Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.”
Answer: Quite true but silver lining... he can survive meteor strike...
Point Two:
“The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.”
Answer: Yes the wizard is on a totally different level from the fighter (even with magic) as the mere power a wizard wields outperforms most of any fighter build abound.
Point Three:
”I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.”
Answer: Yep (Or as I said Forcecage which is perfect in this fight as the fighter could do nothing for an hour).
I also said this before but say it again. Like all of these build with the fighter side they use (with the exception of Eldritch Knight) have all of their metal scores (wis, int, cha) at 8 (-1) as the builds prioritize Con, Dex, and feats. That means like I once wrote you could just cast the spell Maze and watch them disappear and never come out as they just can’t beat the 20 intelligence check to escape.
Very true De4thkn1ght. Most fighters can only manage to have proficiency in one mental save, which doesn't even account for the various ways the Wizard has to incapacitate or buy time that do not involve a save.
.Mind Silver is one every Wizard should take now regardless and is intelligent save. Also, you are only allowed to spend one hit die per turn...so 20 turns recovering 10-15 hp per turn....? so many wizards spells to foil this......all my wizard builds will typically have a synaptic static as well....
Mind Silver followed by an attack spell that requires a wis, int, or cha save......
And that is why spells akin to force wall, maze, and Force cage are so powerful as they can just (without a save) rip a creature from the battlefield or wall them off to the battle.
.Mind Silver is one every Wizard should take now regardless and is intelligent save. Also, you are only allowed to spend one hit die per turn...so 20 turns recovering 10-15 hp per turn....? so many wizards spells to foil this......all my wizard builds will typically have a synaptic static as well....
Mind Silver followed by an attack spell that requires a wis, int, or cha save......
Point One:
“.Mind Silver is one every Wizard should take now regardless and is intelligent save.”
Answer: Yeah it is quite good even if the damage is low (4d6 vs 4d10).
Point Two:
“Also, you are only allowed to spend one hit die per turn...so 20 turns recovering 10-15 hp per turn....? so many wizards spells to foil this......all my wizard builds will typically have a synaptic static as well....”
Answer: Well it would be a lot of hp but... there is a thing called all of the non-damage spells like Maze, Polymorph, banishment, force cage, just to name a few. As with synaptic static it’s good to but there are much better spells to use to end the fight in a round.
Point three:
”Mind Silver followed by an attack spell that requires a wis, int, or cha save......”
Answer: You could or you could just win the game a turn earlier.
PS: I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to use ether spell there are better ones to do so faster and more efficient.
Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.
The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.
I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.
You lack imagination if you think you need to act first or nova strike to win a duel with a mage - what could you possibly do to defeat a Dwarven Champion build that can literally outlast your entire spellbook worth of damage? I’m listening.
"Aye laddy try and hit this!" The dwarf rolls back and forth on the ground dodging.
The wizard sighs....why do these fighters keep coming?
He casts Maze on the fighter. The fighter blinks out of the prime material. There is no save here....no chance to use indomitable nor does the wizard have to use their convergent future.
The fighter not being the bright type has an INT of 8....meaning he will never make the 20 INT save required to exit the maze early.
The wizard casts Wish asking to replicate the Simulacrum spell. A copy of himself instantly appears next to him.
"Right the ol' microwave again if you would"
The sim nods and holds a spell for when he sees the familar lights....
The Wizard Prime casts Sickening Radiance on where the dwarf was. This prompts the reaction from his simulacrum to cast a Wall of Force around the cloud.
The dwarf reappears in the cloud and must now make a CON save...its ok he is good at these!
He makes it! But after a minute and 10 saves he realizes....he will not make them all. 100 saves later the dwarf is dead from exhaustion. His chances of success where slim but he gave it a valiant effort.
The two wizards put on a spot of tea. "When will the silly stabby men learn?"
"Aye laddy try and hit this!" The dwarf rolls back and forth on the ground dodging.
The wizard sighs....why do these fighters keep coming?
He casts Maze on the fighter. The fighter blinks out of the prime material. There is no save here....no chance to use indomitable nor does the wizard have to use their convergent future.
The fighter not being the bright type has an INT of 8....meaning he will never make the 20 INT save required to exit the maze early.
The wizard casts Wish asking to replicate the Simulacrum spell. A copy of himself instantly appears next to him.
"Right the ol' microwave again if you would"
The sim nods and holds a spell for when he sees the familar lights....
The Wizard Prime casts Sickening Radiance on where the dwarf was. This prompts the reaction from his simulacrum to cast a Wall of Force around the cloud.
The dwarf reappears in the cloud and must now make a CON save...its ok he is good at these!
He makes it! But after a minute and 10 saves he realizes....he will not make them all. 100 saves later the dwarf is dead from exhaustion. His chances of success where slim but he gave it a valiant effort.
The two wizards put on a spot of tea. "When will the silly stabby men learn?"
Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.
The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.
I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.
You lack imagination if you think you need to act first or nova strike to win a duel with a mage - what could you possibly do to defeat a Dwarven Champion build that can literally outlast your entire spellbook worth of damage? I’m listening.
Point One:
“You lack imagination if you think you need to act first or nova strike to win a duel with a mage”
Answer: “You lack imagination” no need for insult in a civil debate (I’m joshing you Idc). As with your new build of Endurance do you really think the only way a wizard can defeat you is through damage. As with how viable it is I would put it at the bottom tied with Eldritch Knight.
The Builds So far are: Do tell if I’ve missed any
1. The Arcane Archer Try to go first then somehow double banish the wizard and deal enough damage to kill a AC 23, 100 - 162 hp wizard (Though Funnily enough is the most viable sitting at first)
2. The Samurai Nova, The Pure Battlemaster Feat God Uber Nova Mega Pro Thingy
3. The Enduring Dwarf (That Hp Guy who regenerates), The Eldritch Knight (The sad wizard who wants to be a wizard but can’t as is too sad)
The most viable chance to win is the go first then Nova the wizard build of which you were adamantly against.
Point two:
“what could you possibly do to defeat a Dwarven Champion build that can literally outlast your entire spellbook worth of damage? I’m listening.“
Answer: The arrogance with the “I’m listening.”... I love it. When you say this message I’m sure your joking as I could spout off many many spells that would just stop your fighter from doing anything or just destroy them with prep like:
Force Cage (I find myself saying this one a lot haha), Force Wall, Any of the other wall spells (that are physical so not wall of fire), Maze, Like any save or suck spell, time stop into magnificent mansion enter it then close the door way and cast sequester and set for whatever very long time to wait for the dwarf to die of age or you could then enter your Demiplane for some good old prep time, can just planeshift/teleport away for prep, you could also while in prep time make a simulacrum then cast magic jar enter your simulacrum then cast true polymorph your true self then wait and enter yourself as an adult gold dragon or an ancient brass dragon, then there is always more shenanigans or you could just multi-disintegrate your opponent until there dead or whatever as there is so much to be able to be done.
These are just some of the things that come to mind there is more if you want me to continue.
Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.
The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.
I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.
You lack imagination if you think you need to act first or nova strike to win a duel with a mage - what could you possibly do to defeat a Dwarven Champion build that can literally outlast your entire spellbook worth of damage? I’m listening.
Point One:
“You lack imagination if you think you need to act first or nova strike to win a duel with a mage”
Answer: “You lack imagination” no need for insult in a civil debate (I’m joshing you Idc). As with your new build of Endurance do you really think the only way a wizard can defeat you is through damage. As with how viable it is I would put it at the bottom tied with Eldritch Knight.
The Builds So far are: Do tell if I’ve missed any
1. The Arcane Archer Try to go first then somehow double banish the wizard and deal enough damage to kill a AC 23, 100 - 162 hp wizard (Though Funnily enough is the most viable sitting at first)
2. The Samurai Nova, The Pure Battlemaster Feat God Uber Nova Mega Pro Thingy
3. The Enduring Dwarf (That Hp Guy who regenerates), The Eldritch Knight (The sad wizard who wants to be a wizard but can’t as is too sad)
The most viable chance to win is the go first then Nova the wizard build of which you were adamantly against.
Point two:
“what could you possibly do to defeat a Dwarven Champion build that can literally outlast your entire spellbook worth of damage? I’m listening.“
Answer: The arrogance with the “I’m listening.”... I love it. When you say this message I’m sure your joking as I could spout off many many spells that would just stop your fighter from doing anything or just destroy them with prep like:
Force Cage (I find myself saying this one a lot haha), Force Wall, Any of the other wall spells (that are physical so not wall of fire), Maze, Like any save or suck spell, time stop into magnificent mansion enter it then close the door way and cast sequester and set for whatever very long time to wait for the dwarf to die of age or you could then enter your Demiplane for some good old prep time, can just planeshift/teleport away for prep, you could also while in prep time make a simulacrum then cast magic jar enter your simulacrum then cast true polymorph your true self then wait and enter yourself as an adult gold dragon or an ancient brass dragon, then there is always more shenanigans or you could just multi-disintegrate your opponent until there dead or whatever as there is so much to be able to be done.
These are just some of the things that come to mind there is more if you want me to continue.
Love the actual effort being put in, but you're not even considering that there's lots of counters to those spells.
So now I'll put in the effort too! Because we're cheesing, I'll switch up and use a Yuan-ti Champion. With Bless, Misty Step, Resistance Cantrip, Guidance Cantrip, Resilient Wisdom, Indomitable (3x), Magic Resistance, Survivor Healing for 9 HP per round, 21 AC, it can survive up to 300 rounds of Sickening Radiance/Wall of Force shenanigans easily (and probably more). (let me know if you want the python script I wrote to calculate this all out)
Also, this build doesn't care about your Plane Shifting or your prep. Go ahead. You can even take your Magic Jar prep, your Forcecage prep, your Invulnerability prep... whatever thousands of gold you'll need to cast all of those. My build doesn't even care if you cast Invulnerability. It waits out your entire spell list and ignores your casting while it just sits and waits for you to try something novel.
I'll take a Ring of Protection +1 and skip all the gold to make it fair. With a Ring of Protection the YTC can endure unlimited amounts of Sickening Radiance without even using Indomitable (97% success rate). That's 3 exhaustion by the time your Sickening Radiance fades and I'm back to zero exhaustion. Damage-wise, you can't possible do enough damage to outpace the healing rate of Survivor - your hit rate is too low, and you can't target enough saves to counteract it. And what is the Champion doing? Sitting there casting Resistance, tapping his fingers absent-mindedly.
I mean, feel free to list some spells that you think will manage and I can run the numbers for you.
Disintegration, for example. 75 damage on a failed save, 0 on a successful save. Dex save with Indomitable will save 80% of the time. So in effect, you're doing about 75 damage 20% of the time and 0 the other 80% of the time. That means your average output will be about 15 dmg per round. Well, after what... 4 Disintegrates you'll have done 60 dmg on average. And after the 2-4 rounds it takes to cast all that, I'll have regenerated 18-36hp of it.
"But Meteor Swarm!" 130 damage on a failed save, 65 damage on a successful save. Dex save with Indomitable will save 80% of the time again. So (20% x 130) + (80% x 65) = 26 + 52 = 78 damage average.
And now you're getting down to level 5 damage spells - Immolation? 28 damage, 14 damage on a save. I wouldn't use Indom on this one, 66 chance of saving. (33% x 28) + (66% x 14) = 18.5 dmg. Regenerated in 2 rounds.
That's what I mean by imagination - actual numbers to the actual thing rather than dismissing it so simply. And this is without even adjusting the Racial scores to transfer Charisma and Intelligence scores. If I had that, I could fit in Shield Master to nullify direct damage almost directly, and even go for something like the Lucky feat to make it even easier.
EDIT: For reference, Meteor Swarm with Shield Master would have an average output of 23% of 130 = 30 dmg. With Indomitable, 11% of 130 = 15 dmg.
Definitely not impressed by what you've produced here Brewksy. The entire reason you have any chance in this fight is because you've built using a broken race with a broken ability. That advantage on saves against magic is everything, and without it that Sickening Radiance has you dead. As far as I'm concerned all you've shown is how Yuan-ti cause problems for spellcasters, not how a Fighter does.
Your build is wearing plate illegally. And if they're going to have 1500+ gold worth of equipment then the wizard gets the materials to cast their spells. The fighter doesn't get a Ring of Protection. That isn't equivalent.
But none of that matters.
If you want to get creative, let's talk about what happens when the Wizard casts Wish for Simulacrum, and then has the Simulacrum cast Wish for Simulacrum. How about the Wizard traps the Champion in one of their domes (only 1 misty step) and then creates a chain of Simulacrum for the entire 10 minutes. Once the dome fades, a simulacrum casts another. Meanwhile the Simulacrums keep churning out more Simulacrums with Wish. Rinse and repeat until the Wizard gets bored. Think those damage calculations might have to change.
1. You assume you even need damage to end the encounter...there are several ways to simply kill the dwarf (Polymorph then Disintegrate or Power Word Kill) without worrying about it.
2. If the dwarf is hoping to out do damage they will not do it with the set up you have....as even if they dodged once per turn they are looking at 10 (CON Mod of 5 x 2) minimum HP per turn and since they can only use one hit dice they will not even really notice the HP gain.
Animate objects deals an average of 29.3 damage per turn as bonus action on top of what ever spell you want to cast as an action.
https://thinkdm.org/2020/07/11/animate-objects/#:~:text=Animate Objects is a 5th,grind combat to a halt.
Upcasting makes this damage go higher.
The fighter you propose has 224 HP and can gain approximately 10-12.5 hp per turn with the dodge action (Completely forgoing their attacks) and 10 hp from champion.
Even just using animate objects the wizard can deplete this "extra" HP pool of the fighter with a BA only per turn really easily. Especially if they use a spell to get ADV on the attacks with the animated objects.
Really this is a terrible build as they will not even do damage....which is the best thing a fighter has going for it when it comes to ending a fight as quick as possible.
3. You simply target a mental save. Nothing in your build makes them very good at attacks against their WIS, INT, or CHA.
4. Simply have them fail it as a Chrono wizard.
You can polymorph them into an octopus then power word kill the fighter without the fighter ever even making a save roll.
You are mostly correct here, but a small point of order: The Polymorph - Disintegrate combo no longer works, as the spell was errata'd a few years back. Power Word Kill still works, though.
Fair point. Thanks!
Also this scenario for your dwarf:
Dwarf somehow wins the initiative.
"Aye laddy try and hit this!" The dwarf rolls back and forth on the ground dodging.
The wizard sighs....why do these fighters keep coming?
He casts Maze on the fighter. The fighter blinks out of the prime material. There is no save here....no chance to use indomitable nor does the wizard have to use their convergent future.
The fighter not being the bright type has an INT of 8....meaning he will never make the 20 INT save required to exit the maze early.
The wizard casts Wish asking to replicate the Simulacrum spell. A copy of himself instantly appears next to him.
"Right the ol' microwave again if you would"
The sim nods and holds a spell for when he sees the familar lights....
The Wizard Prime casts Sickening Radiance on where the dwarf was. This prompts the reaction from his simulacrum to cast a Wall of Force around the cloud.
The dwarf reappears in the cloud and must now make a CON save...its ok he is good at these!
He makes it! But after a minute and 10 saves he realizes....he will not make them all. 100 saves later the dwarf is dead from exhaustion. His chances of success where slim but he gave it a valiant effort.
The two wizards put on a spot of tea. "When will the silly stabby men learn?"
The wizard could just use force cage then do sicking radiance...
My way they have a sim just in case lol but you are fully correct
Haha yeah there isn’t much the dwarf could do to brawn out the power of the cosmos that the wizard holds within his hands (spellbook).
Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.
The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.
I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.
Point One:
“Honestly, and no offense, but that Dwarven Champion is easily one of the worst fighter builds the class could field in this challenge. No innate ways to protect against magic (or at least a chance to disrupt like the Arcane Archer), no innate initiative boosts, and the lack of Nova potential to even threaten a lucky round. And on top of that, its plan is to NOT attack. Like most of the other claims made in support of the fighter class, it makes a blatant mistake in assuming the battle is about nothing but trading damage.”
Answer: Quite true but silver lining... he can survive meteor strike...
Point Two:
“The Wizard operates on another axis entirely.”
Answer: Yes the wizard is on a totally different level from the fighter (even with magic) as the mere power a wizard wields outperforms most of any fighter build abound.
Point Three:
”I think OptimusGrimus showed a perfect example of how quickly the fight is effectively over when the Wizard has even one single chance to act. And as I've shown with the hobgoblin build, any Wizard can be built to survive the fighter's best damage outputs.”
Answer: Yep (Or as I said Forcecage which is perfect in this fight as the fighter could do nothing for an hour).
I also said this before but say it again. Like all of these build with the fighter side they use (with the exception of Eldritch Knight) have all of their metal scores (wis, int, cha) at 8 (-1) as the builds prioritize Con, Dex, and feats. That means like I once wrote you could just cast the spell Maze and watch them disappear and never come out as they just can’t beat the 20 intelligence check to escape.
Very true De4thkn1ght. Most fighters can only manage to have proficiency in one mental save, which doesn't even account for the various ways the Wizard has to incapacitate or buy time that do not involve a save.
.Mind Silver is one every Wizard should take now regardless and is intelligent save. Also, you are only allowed to spend one hit die per turn...so 20 turns recovering 10-15 hp per turn....? so many wizards spells to foil this......all my wizard builds will typically have a synaptic static as well....
Mind Silver followed by an attack spell that requires a wis, int, or cha save......
And that is why spells akin to force wall, maze, and Force cage are so powerful as they can just (without a save) rip a creature from the battlefield or wall them off to the battle.
Point One:
“.Mind Silver is one every Wizard should take now regardless and is intelligent save.”
Answer: Yeah it is quite good even if the damage is low (4d6 vs 4d10).
Point Two:
“Also, you are only allowed to spend one hit die per turn...so 20 turns recovering 10-15 hp per turn....? so many wizards spells to foil this......all my wizard builds will typically have a synaptic static as well....”
Answer: Well it would be a lot of hp but... there is a thing called all of the non-damage spells like Maze, Polymorph, banishment, force cage, just to name a few. As with synaptic static it’s good to but there are much better spells to use to end the fight in a round.
Point three:
”Mind Silver followed by an attack spell that requires a wis, int, or cha save......”
Answer: You could or you could just win the game a turn earlier.
PS: I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to use ether spell there are better ones to do so faster and more efficient.
You lack imagination if you think you need to act first or nova strike to win a duel with a mage - what could you possibly do to defeat a Dwarven Champion build that can literally outlast your entire spellbook worth of damage? I’m listening.
This is the way
This is the way... I have spoken.
Point One:
“You lack imagination if you think you need to act first or nova strike to win a duel with a mage”
Answer: “You lack imagination” no need for insult in a civil debate (I’m joshing you Idc). As with your new build of Endurance do you really think the only way a wizard can defeat you is through damage. As with how viable it is I would put it at the bottom tied with Eldritch Knight.
The Builds So far are: Do tell if I’ve missed any
1. The Arcane Archer Try to go first then somehow double banish the wizard and deal enough damage to kill a AC 23, 100 - 162 hp wizard (Though Funnily enough is the most viable sitting at first)
2. The Samurai Nova, The Pure Battlemaster Feat God Uber Nova Mega Pro Thingy
3. The Enduring Dwarf (That Hp Guy who regenerates), The Eldritch Knight (The sad wizard who wants to be a wizard but can’t as is too sad)
The most viable chance to win is the go first then Nova the wizard build of which you were adamantly against.
Point two:
“what could you possibly do to defeat a Dwarven Champion build that can literally outlast your entire spellbook worth of damage? I’m listening.“
Answer: The arrogance with the “I’m listening.”... I love it. When you say this message I’m sure your joking as I could spout off many many spells that would just stop your fighter from doing anything or just destroy them with prep like:
Force Cage (I find myself saying this one a lot haha), Force Wall, Any of the other wall spells (that are physical so not wall of fire), Maze, Like any save or suck spell, time stop into magnificent mansion enter it then close the door way and cast sequester and set for whatever very long time to wait for the dwarf to die of age or you could then enter your Demiplane for some good old prep time, can just planeshift/teleport away for prep, you could also while in prep time make a simulacrum then cast magic jar enter your simulacrum then cast true polymorph your true self then wait and enter yourself as an adult gold dragon or an ancient brass dragon, then there is always more shenanigans or you could just multi-disintegrate your opponent until there dead or whatever as there is so much to be able to be done.
These are just some of the things that come to mind there is more if you want me to continue.
Love the actual effort being put in, but you're not even considering that there's lots of counters to those spells.
So now I'll put in the effort too! Because we're cheesing, I'll switch up and use a Yuan-ti Champion. With Bless, Misty Step, Resistance Cantrip, Guidance Cantrip, Resilient Wisdom, Indomitable (3x), Magic Resistance, Survivor Healing for 9 HP per round, 21 AC, it can survive up to 300 rounds of Sickening Radiance/Wall of Force shenanigans easily (and probably more). (let me know if you want the python script I wrote to calculate this all out)
Also, this build doesn't care about your Plane Shifting or your prep. Go ahead. You can even take your Magic Jar prep, your Forcecage prep, your Invulnerability prep... whatever thousands of gold you'll need to cast all of those. My build doesn't even care if you cast Invulnerability. It waits out your entire spell list and ignores your casting while it just sits and waits for you to try something novel.
I'll take a Ring of Protection +1 and skip all the gold to make it fair. With a Ring of Protection the YTC can endure unlimited amounts of Sickening Radiance without even using Indomitable (97% success rate). That's 3 exhaustion by the time your Sickening Radiance fades and I'm back to zero exhaustion. Damage-wise, you can't possible do enough damage to outpace the healing rate of Survivor - your hit rate is too low, and you can't target enough saves to counteract it. And what is the Champion doing? Sitting there casting Resistance, tapping his fingers absent-mindedly.
I mean, feel free to list some spells that you think will manage and I can run the numbers for you.
Disintegration, for example. 75 damage on a failed save, 0 on a successful save. Dex save with Indomitable will save 80% of the time. So in effect, you're doing about 75 damage 20% of the time and 0 the other 80% of the time. That means your average output will be about 15 dmg per round. Well, after what... 4 Disintegrates you'll have done 60 dmg on average. And after the 2-4 rounds it takes to cast all that, I'll have regenerated 18-36hp of it.
"But Meteor Swarm!" 130 damage on a failed save, 65 damage on a successful save. Dex save with Indomitable will save 80% of the time again. So (20% x 130) + (80% x 65) = 26 + 52 = 78 damage average.
And now you're getting down to level 5 damage spells - Immolation? 28 damage, 14 damage on a save. I wouldn't use Indom on this one, 66 chance of saving. (33% x 28) + (66% x 14) = 18.5 dmg. Regenerated in 2 rounds.
That's what I mean by imagination - actual numbers to the actual thing rather than dismissing it so simply. And this is without even adjusting the Racial scores to transfer Charisma and Intelligence scores. If I had that, I could fit in Shield Master to nullify direct damage almost directly, and even go for something like the Lucky feat to make it even easier.
EDIT: For reference, Meteor Swarm with Shield Master would have an average output of 23% of 130 = 30 dmg. With Indomitable, 11% of 130 = 15 dmg.
Definitely not impressed by what you've produced here Brewksy. The entire reason you have any chance in this fight is because you've built using a broken race with a broken ability. That advantage on saves against magic is everything, and without it that Sickening Radiance has you dead. As far as I'm concerned all you've shown is how Yuan-ti cause problems for spellcasters, not how a Fighter does.
Your build is wearing plate illegally. And if they're going to have 1500+ gold worth of equipment then the wizard gets the materials to cast their spells. The fighter doesn't get a Ring of Protection. That isn't equivalent.
But none of that matters.
If you want to get creative, let's talk about what happens when the Wizard casts Wish for Simulacrum, and then has the Simulacrum cast Wish for Simulacrum. How about the Wizard traps the Champion in one of their domes (only 1 misty step) and then creates a chain of Simulacrum for the entire 10 minutes. Once the dome fades, a simulacrum casts another. Meanwhile the Simulacrums keep churning out more Simulacrums with Wish. Rinse and repeat until the Wizard gets bored. Think those damage calculations might have to change.