Have been in a long-running campaign that has been a combination of several official adventure books, homebrew shenanigans, and I'm sure various other sources of stuff as well. But we just finished one of the big battles we had been working toward, which was taking down Demon Lords who had made their way into our plane because of a deal we made with Lolth way way way back to bring us back to life after a TPK... All we know is Demogorgon, Orcus, Baphomet, Yeenoghu, Malcanthet, and Kostchtchie have all been sent back to the Abyss, though we still have Graz'zt and a few others to deal with... a little sooner than we had hoped...
Anyway, after that big battle we have all finally made it to level 20! Which brings me to my conundrum.
I play a Goliath Eldritch Knight Fighter (Level 14) and War Magic Wizard (Level 5) multiclass and am wondering where I should go with my final level (2014 rules).
The only real options because of my stats, are the current classes (Fighter/Wizard), and Barbarian or Rogue (maybe Blood Hunter if the DM allowed it), but I'm eliminating Barb right away (and probably Blood Hunter as well, unless I'm missing something...) as it doesn't mesh with what I do as a sword and board tanking EK. I don't typically cast damage spells, but instead buff myself with various things and all the reaction spells.
My issues are, that the "skills" I get at the next level of Fighter or Wizard are really not that useful to me because of other things I have through feats, equipment, or other means. The only thing I really gain is a second 5th level spell slot for me to upcast something (I only know up to 3rd level spells).
From Eldritch Knight I would gain the feature "Arcane Charge," which allows me to teleport when I use my Action Surge. Except I already use plenty of Misty Step and the Cloudy Escape feat I have, which are both much better and useful options to do the same thing.
From War Magic Wizard I would gain the feature "Power Surge," which allows me to do minimal damage (3 extra) at this point when I cast a wizard spell to do damage. Except this is also not something I do that often (I have casted a pair of fireballs or lightning bolts a couple times for funsies, but usually it's only going to be a cantrip if I need a ranged attack).
I picked War Magic Wizard to have the Initiative Bonus, Arcane Deflection to help with WIS and CHA saves I'd fail, and access to far more spells. I also don't use the spells Dispel Magic or Counterspell, as we have a 26 INT evocation wizard also in the party that can handle that, so it is wasted on my version of a Fighter-Caster.
Thus, the ultimate question:
Is the extra 5th level spell slot I would get (I typically only use it to upcast Spirit Shroud for big fights, which is an extra 2d8 per fighter attacks) worth more than picking up a proficiency I lack (such as Insight or Investigation), expertise in two other things (such as Perception, Athletics, Stealth) and an extra d6 once a turn on the 3 (or 4) attacks I make per turn?
(NOTE: The primary weapon I use is a sentient "finesse" longsword, so that part is not an issue)
It just sounds more fun to add some skill monkey flavor with Rogue, than picking up an extra spell slot...
So going to 20th level will get you 0 advantage. Are you planning to go above 20th level?
If you go above 20 levels, what advantages to get at 21/22/23/etc. level?
If you get some good at Wizard 7, then advance your wizard levels to reach that 7 Level. Same with the fighter levels. Is getting 18th level for the fighter worth it? Do you want the additional attacks given at 20th level?
Sometimes you have endure a level or two to get to the next one that is worthwhile.
I’d go EK 15. Wizard 6 gives you 3 points of damage a couple times a day, no big deal at level 20. EK gives you a teleport. I know you say you already have misty step, etc., but the EK version comes with no action economy cost. You’ll still have your BA for a second wind, or heck, a misty step in addition to the arcane charge.
Maybe the level of rogue could be fun. But I guess a lot would depend on your party composition. Isn’t there already someone doing things like insight or investigation, for example?
I’d stick with just the EK. But, full disclosure, I’m not a fan of multiclassing in general, and that goes double for triple-classing.
Also, to the above poster, there is no such thing as level 21 in this edition. If the game continues, PCs may get epic boons, but they no longer gain class levels after character level 20.
Yep, Level 20 is the end of leveling up for us. Not sure on any epic boons, but we have been awarded feats and what not in the past.
That's an interesting note about the no action economy part of the of the Arcane Charge. It could make some fun turns of just teleporting around and smashing...hmmm...
There are Insight and Investigation characters in the party, but as a "smarter than your average" Goliath part of my character is being able to do some of these things as well, and my passive scores there aren't that high, so picking them would add +6 to their values. (17 Perception, 12 Investigation, 11 Insight). I could swap some things around to add another skill from my Soldier background, like Arcana instead of Stealth that I had as well.
I think it would be fun to have expertise in Athletics (+17) and maybe Intimidation (+11) given I am a Goliath. I do have options.
I understand on the being against multiclassing, I did it for two very specific reasons:
1. I wanted more spells, earlier, to give me more buff options than I ever could have gotten sticking full Eldritch Knight, and the high-level Fighter (4 attacks) and EK skills (Improved War Magic) I was kind of meh on, because I can do those things already via Haste and having a Dancing Sword, or using my Action Surge.
2. I had been turned against, and wrecked the party, multiple times by CHA and WIS spells (I also got "Feeble Minded" in our big fight against the Demons described above even with Indomitable and Arcane Deflection), and instead of investing in another feat like Resilient (whatever), I took the path to get the Arcane Deflection version which works with every save.
Oh, I wasn’t trying to criticize you for multiclassing. You should do what works for you, I was just making it clear that I come at the question with a bit of bias.
Things like a +17 feel cool, and can be fun to have, and that is, honestly, reason enough to do them. But really, after a certain point it can kind of become overkill. Now if you were using a ‘24 Goliath who can go to size large, and then be able to grapple huge creatures, that kind of athletics could really be worth it. But if you’re at something like a +12, you’re probably going to make all your checks anyway — the difference between getting a 25 and a 30 on a check is almost nothing, as you’ve probably already passed the check with the 25, so anything above it won’t really matter, for example.
But, if you think the level in rogue will be more fun, or better fits with the character, that’s probably going to be more important than any number of +1’s or other powers. I think you should always just do what you think will be most fun, even if it’s not necessarily mechanically optimal.
Oh, I didn't mean that either, just wanted to explain the thought process I had.
I also have the Shield Master feat, so at earlier levels I was pushing guys to the ground with those strength checks to give/get advantage (DM allows me to Push with my shield after the first of my attacks), but haven't done a lot of that at higher levels as the enemies were much better at resisting it. With this, I think I could get back to pushing all those creatures again, including the size "large" ones I am able to.
I do get Enlarged every once in a while, too, whether by myself or the Wizard so I can use an oversized greatsword that does 4d6. In that case I'm also likely being able to shove huge creatures. You're an Adult Dragon? I don't give an 'eff. Haha.
Hello,
Have been in a long-running campaign that has been a combination of several official adventure books, homebrew shenanigans, and I'm sure various other sources of stuff as well. But we just finished one of the big battles we had been working toward, which was taking down Demon Lords who had made their way into our plane because of a deal we made with Lolth way way way back to bring us back to life after a TPK... All we know is Demogorgon, Orcus, Baphomet, Yeenoghu, Malcanthet, and Kostchtchie have all been sent back to the Abyss, though we still have Graz'zt and a few others to deal with... a little sooner than we had hoped...
Anyway, after that big battle we have all finally made it to level 20! Which brings me to my conundrum.
I play a Goliath Eldritch Knight Fighter (Level 14) and War Magic Wizard (Level 5) multiclass and am wondering where I should go with my final level (2014 rules).
The only real options because of my stats, are the current classes (Fighter/Wizard), and Barbarian or Rogue (maybe Blood Hunter if the DM allowed it), but I'm eliminating Barb right away (and probably Blood Hunter as well, unless I'm missing something...) as it doesn't mesh with what I do as a sword and board tanking EK. I don't typically cast damage spells, but instead buff myself with various things and all the reaction spells.
My issues are, that the "skills" I get at the next level of Fighter or Wizard are really not that useful to me because of other things I have through feats, equipment, or other means. The only thing I really gain is a second 5th level spell slot for me to upcast something (I only know up to 3rd level spells).
From Eldritch Knight I would gain the feature "Arcane Charge," which allows me to teleport when I use my Action Surge. Except I already use plenty of Misty Step and the Cloudy Escape feat I have, which are both much better and useful options to do the same thing.
From War Magic Wizard I would gain the feature "Power Surge," which allows me to do minimal damage (3 extra) at this point when I cast a wizard spell to do damage. Except this is also not something I do that often (I have casted a pair of fireballs or lightning bolts a couple times for funsies, but usually it's only going to be a cantrip if I need a ranged attack).
I picked War Magic Wizard to have the Initiative Bonus, Arcane Deflection to help with WIS and CHA saves I'd fail, and access to far more spells. I also don't use the spells Dispel Magic or Counterspell, as we have a 26 INT evocation wizard also in the party that can handle that, so it is wasted on my version of a Fighter-Caster.
Thus, the ultimate question:
Is the extra 5th level spell slot I would get (I typically only use it to upcast Spirit Shroud for big fights, which is an extra 2d8 per fighter attacks) worth more than picking up a proficiency I lack (such as Insight or Investigation), expertise in two other things (such as Perception, Athletics, Stealth) and an extra d6 once a turn on the 3 (or 4) attacks I make per turn?
(NOTE: The primary weapon I use is a sentient "finesse" longsword, so that part is not an issue)
It just sounds more fun to add some skill monkey flavor with Rogue, than picking up an extra spell slot...
So am I onto something, or on something?!
So going to 20th level will get you 0 advantage. Are you planning to go above 20th level?
If you go above 20 levels, what advantages to get at 21/22/23/etc. level?
If you get some good at Wizard 7, then advance your wizard levels to reach that 7 Level. Same with the fighter levels. Is getting 18th level for the fighter worth it? Do you want the additional attacks given at 20th level?
Sometimes you have endure a level or two to get to the next one that is worthwhile.
I’d go EK 15. Wizard 6 gives you 3 points of damage a couple times a day, no big deal at level 20.
EK gives you a teleport. I know you say you already have misty step, etc., but the EK version comes with no action economy cost. You’ll still have your BA for a second wind, or heck, a misty step in addition to the arcane charge.
Maybe the level of rogue could be fun. But I guess a lot would depend on your party composition. Isn’t there already someone doing things like insight or investigation, for example?
I’d stick with just the EK. But, full disclosure, I’m not a fan of multiclassing in general, and that goes double for triple-classing.
Also, to the above poster, there is no such thing as level 21 in this edition. If the game continues, PCs may get epic boons, but they no longer gain class levels after character level 20.
Yep, Level 20 is the end of leveling up for us. Not sure on any epic boons, but we have been awarded feats and what not in the past.
That's an interesting note about the no action economy part of the of the Arcane Charge. It could make some fun turns of just teleporting around and smashing...hmmm...
There are Insight and Investigation characters in the party, but as a "smarter than your average" Goliath part of my character is being able to do some of these things as well, and my passive scores there aren't that high, so picking them would add +6 to their values. (17 Perception, 12 Investigation, 11 Insight). I could swap some things around to add another skill from my Soldier background, like Arcana instead of Stealth that I had as well.
I think it would be fun to have expertise in Athletics (+17) and maybe Intimidation (+11) given I am a Goliath. I do have options.
I understand on the being against multiclassing, I did it for two very specific reasons:
1. I wanted more spells, earlier, to give me more buff options than I ever could have gotten sticking full Eldritch Knight, and the high-level Fighter (4 attacks) and EK skills (Improved War Magic) I was kind of meh on, because I can do those things already via Haste and having a Dancing Sword, or using my Action Surge.
2. I had been turned against, and wrecked the party, multiple times by CHA and WIS spells (I also got "Feeble Minded" in our big fight against the Demons described above even with Indomitable and Arcane Deflection), and instead of investing in another feat like Resilient (whatever), I took the path to get the Arcane Deflection version which works with every save.
Oh, I wasn’t trying to criticize you for multiclassing. You should do what works for you, I was just making it clear that I come at the question with a bit of bias.
Things like a +17 feel cool, and can be fun to have, and that is, honestly, reason enough to do them. But really, after a certain point it can kind of become overkill. Now if you were using a ‘24 Goliath who can go to size large, and then be able to grapple huge creatures, that kind of athletics could really be worth it. But if you’re at something like a +12, you’re probably going to make all your checks anyway — the difference between getting a 25 and a 30 on a check is almost nothing, as you’ve probably already passed the check with the 25, so anything above it won’t really matter, for example.
But, if you think the level in rogue will be more fun, or better fits with the character, that’s probably going to be more important than any number of +1’s or other powers. I think you should always just do what you think will be most fun, even if it’s not necessarily mechanically optimal.
Oh, I didn't mean that either, just wanted to explain the thought process I had.
I also have the Shield Master feat, so at earlier levels I was pushing guys to the ground with those strength checks to give/get advantage (DM allows me to Push with my shield after the first of my attacks), but haven't done a lot of that at higher levels as the enemies were much better at resisting it. With this, I think I could get back to pushing all those creatures again, including the size "large" ones I am able to.
I do get Enlarged every once in a while, too, whether by myself or the Wizard so I can use an oversized greatsword that does 4d6. In that case I'm also likely being able to shove huge creatures. You're an Adult Dragon? I don't give an 'eff. Haha.