Hello, a friend of mine has helped me with an Eldritch Knight, Wizard build. The idea is I take 8 levels in Eldritch Knight - Fighter, then 6 levels in War Mage - Wizard, then the rest in Fighter. I have a general idea of what feats, cantrips, and spells I want but the order of them I'm somewhat struggling with. In case it helps, the composition of my party includes a ranged dagger fighter, a warlock, a bard with life cleric multiclass, a battlesmith artificer, and a druid.
The idea for my build is that while on open plains, he rides his enlarged warhorse to have constant advantage on most enemies (large and smaller) from mounted combatant. He would use his spells mostly for defense, buffs, or utility with maybe only a handful of offensive spells. I'm still trying to figure out which situations would be best for a glaive and which situations would be best for the spear and shield. Also, my DM says my spear counts as a polearm so it works with the polearm master feat. The overall goal for this character is to tank hard (in the sense of taking the least amount of damage possible) while doing decent damage and pulling a bit of utility out of my @$$ when the moment calls for it.
TLDR: The goal is to tank as hard as possible and still do decent damage.
Why is your fighter wielding daggers? They should be a rogue if they're doing that. Anyway, wyvern is so much better. Poison attacks, multiattack. You need high intelligence if you're going wizard, but if you were to stay ek then you would only need 14 unless you wanted it higher
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
P.E.G. is an amazing tanking spell. I have an ek/wiz in Tomb of Annihilation now, which has lots of undead. Why not take PEG with your level 3 EK spells? Standard opener is to cast Peg first, then action surge to move into attack range. Also, heavy armor master is a very good feat for tanking at early levels. PEG +HAM lets you laugh at crowds.
Without a decent INT, I dunno that i would bother with offensive cantrips or [especially] save/suck spells. Or much battlefield control [e.g. grease] Fog cloud is good defensively against ranged enemies though.
Mirror Image > Blur, given the choice.
You NEED misty step. It is a great "oh shit" spell. I'd use the wizard levels for contingency-type spells like misty step, feather fall, see invisibility, etc. Stuff you don't need often but that is great at the right monent.
Consider the warcaster feat and going sword/board. This lets you cast booming blade as an opportunity attack, which can effectively add to battlefield control. The shield will obviously improve your tanking.
Finally, shadow blade can be a strong use of your concentration.
Why is your fighter wielding daggers? They should be a rogue if they're doing that. Anyway, wyvern is so much better. Poison attacks, multiattack. You need high intelligence if you're going wizard, but if you were to stay ek then you would only need 14 unless you wanted it higher
I'm guessing the daggers are for bonding as a thrown weapon?
No that's not my fighter, the other fighter in my group is a battle master. Mine uses Spear and Shield. Also, I'm trying to decide between these two feats: Resilience- Dex and Spear Mastery. I'm sure the dex proficiency will come in handy but the increased accuracy and damage on my spear sound nice too. I can't decide.
You can't use dex for attack rolls and damage for your spear. You have to use strength. So dex would only give you plus one AC. Whereas polearm mastery gives you extra damage, at least one. And up to four. So I'd say forget dex and go polearm mastery or ASI for strength
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
TLDR: The goal is to tank as hard as possible and still do decent damage.
8. How much intelligence do I really need?
With your goal in mind, I'm not understanding the purpose of multi-classing. EK provides the buffs, utility, and occasional offensive spell that you want. Dropping 6 levels in the wizard class is a large chunk of hit points lost. If you rolled hit points that would be a potential of 4 hit points a level you would never be able to get. Using average that is 2 hit points a level you don't have cause you went wizard. If you intend to take damage then every point matters. I don't think the benefits of War Wizard level 6 outweigh the raw stats benefit of staying fighter. Raw stats are not flashy or cool sounding but they are very important.
Fighters get their biggest damage advantage with their base number of attacks. At 11 they have 3 and at 20 they have 4 attacks per round. This means they can get some good burst damage with well-timed Action Surges and that in long fights all other classes that rely on resources to do damage will fall off and start to only trickle damage in. As long as the fighter is standing he is still doing damage. As a fighter, you may never roll an entire crate of d6's like hyped up wizards do but they only get to do that a couple of times.
As for how much INT you need...that gets messy. If you want to shoot stuff with spells then the higher the better. If you are primarily going to focus on buffs and utility stuff that does not directly affect enemies then you can leave that pretty low. Especially if you do not multi-class. If you go with the shooter option and still try to be a good tank then you are getting heavy with the ability requirements. STR for hitting stuff, CON for getting hit, and then INT for shooting stuff and DEX for ranged weapon attacks/initiative.
A link to my EK in a very strange campaign. Most of the choices I made for him were theatrical and not made for practical reasons. This character is more upfront and hit them rather than take the hits but it does show you that INT doesn't have to be very high to be an effective EK.
If you're really trying to lean hard into the tank, why not abjuration wizard? War Wizard certainly has some nice tank-y tricks, but abjuration, you can help out your allies, too.
Maybe a greenflame blade. I can't see why you'd use shocking grasp. If you're close enough to melee you'll take two regular attacks, then the bonus from PAM, which should beat out the shocking grasp damage. Unless you run into someone that has vulnerability to lightning damage.
I have a personal pet peeve with mounts where I find they are much cooler in theory than in practice. You (largely) can't take them indoors, and at least some of your fights will take place there. Depending on the campaign it could be a lot or even most of your fights taking place indoors. Boss fights, against creatures with lair actions, are almost by definition indoors or at least in a cave, generally not a place where you can maneuver a horse around (I know there can be exceptions, but how often is a creature's lair in the middle of an open field). Any fight you have where you're not mounted, you have a feat you took that's not doing anything for you. Unless you heard from your DM that there's going to be lots of fights in the open field you describe, that feat is a big investment for a trick you won't pull off very often. And even when mounts can actually be used, they die a lot. Their hp don't scale. So even with them basically getting evasion from you having mounted combatant, A warhorse with it's +1 dex save and 19 hp can very easily die when it gets caught in AoE spells, particularly at higher levels. (and since its not a PC, it doesn't get death saves. 0 hp means its dead, not just unconscious). And if its badly hurt, do you really think the party wants the cleric spending an action healing the horse? The horse can be cool and fun, yes, but they really need to be treated as almost like a consumable item that you don't expect to use for more than one battle, maybe 2. I'd not spend a feat on riding them.
If you're really trying to lean hard into the tank, why not abjuration wizard? War Wizard certainly has some nice tank-y tricks, but abjuration, you can help out your allies, too.
Maybe a greenflame blade. I can't see why you'd use shocking grasp. If you're close enough to melee you'll take two regular attacks, then the bonus from PAM, which should beat out the shocking grasp damage. Unless you run into someone that has vulnerability to lightning damage.
I have a personal pet peeve with mounts where I find they are much cooler in theory than in practice. You (largely) can't take them indoors, and at least some of your fights will take place there. Depending on the campaign it could be a lot or even most of your fights taking place indoors. Boss fights, against creatures with lair actions, are almost by definition indoors or at least in a cave, generally not a place where you can maneuver a horse around (I know there can be exceptions, but how often is a creature's lair in the middle of an open field). Any fight you have where you're not mounted, you have a feat you took that's not doing anything for you. Unless you heard from your DM that there's going to be lots of fights in the open field you describe, that feat is a big investment for a trick you won't pull off very often. And even when mounts can actually be used, they die a lot. Their hp don't scale. So even with them basically getting evasion from you having mounted combatant, A warhorse with it's +1 dex save and 19 hp can very easily die when it gets caught in AoE spells, particularly at higher levels. (and since its not a PC, it doesn't get death saves. 0 hp means its dead, not just unconscious). And if its badly hurt, do you really think the party wants the cleric spending an action healing the horse? The horse can be cool and fun, yes, but they really need to be treated as almost like a consumable item that you don't expect to use for more than one battle, maybe 2. I'd not spend a feat on riding them.
Yeah, the only way I would ever go with Mounted Combatant is if I had a Circle of the Moon Druid with the Sentinel. Druid forms would scale better + self-healing + Feat synergy means if they attack "your mount" then you can force them to attack you. Since the druid would have Sentinel they get a reaction to attack.
Regarding spells, I have the following suggestions:
Cantrips (E. Fighter)
All look good to me, I assume you have ranged weapon. If not, GET fire bolt. You do not want to be standing there as the guy on the horse with 1 hit point rides away.
Level 1 Spells (EF)
Absorb Elements looks great, but I RARELY use it. It uses your reaction and you have both AoO and Shield. Later you will get Counter-spell I suggest you consider replacing it with False Life. You can cast it before the battle and it lasts for an hour.
Level 2 Spells (EF)
Warding Wind is OK, but consider Misty Step. You are a Gish and the ability to move 30 ft as a bonus action is incredibly useful.
Blade Ward is useless. When are you going to want to spend an entire action to cut the damage done to you by weapons in half? Instead of attacking? Or just DODGING?
Consider replacing it with either Firebolt or Sword burst. Sword burst does Force damage to EVERYONE within 5 ft. You are probably going to be up close and I bet you will get surrounded.
Level 1 Spells
Identify and Detect Magic. (Level 9) Good spells, but do not memorize. RITUAL.
Sleep (Level 9) RARELY useful at your level. You can't boost it too high either. Consider replacing with Charm Person or False life (if you did not take it earlier)
Level 2 Spells
If you did not get Misty Step as an E.F., get it here.
I would consider Earthbind. You have a lot of spells to prepare, and Earthbind is VERY useful against a flying attacker. Often a better call than memorizing Featherfall.
Do not get Locate Objects. Rarely useful due to small range and other limitations. Detect Thoughts is helpful.
Level 3 Spells
Consider getting Vampiric Touch. Generally this is a crappy spell, because it requires you to get up close and personal. But you are a fighter so you will be doing that anyway.
Also, remember that you learn 2 spells every time you go up in Wizard, but you can trade spells with ANY wizard, as well as copy them from a stolen spell book or scroll. As a wizard you have no limit on the spells you learn, just the one you prepare. Expect to get a whole bunch of extra spells. In particular, I suggest every wizard go looking for the following Ritual spells, because they are always useful:
Comprehend Language, Find Familiar (normal one till you get the Flock), Detect Magic, Identify
Hello, a friend of mine has helped me with an Eldritch Knight, Wizard build. The idea is I take 8 levels in Eldritch Knight - Fighter, then 6 levels in War Mage - Wizard, then the rest in Fighter. I have a general idea of what feats, cantrips, and spells I want but the order of them I'm somewhat struggling with. In case it helps, the composition of my party includes a ranged dagger fighter, a warlock, a bard with life cleric multiclass, a battlesmith artificer, and a druid.
The idea for my build is that while on open plains, he rides his enlarged warhorse to have constant advantage on most enemies (large and smaller) from mounted combatant. He would use his spells mostly for defense, buffs, or utility with maybe only a handful of offensive spells. I'm still trying to figure out which situations would be best for a glaive and which situations would be best for the spear and shield. Also, my DM says my spear counts as a polearm so it works with the polearm master feat. The overall goal for this character is to tank hard (in the sense of taking the least amount of damage possible) while doing decent damage and pulling a bit of utility out of my @$$ when the moment calls for it.
TLDR: The goal is to tank as hard as possible and still do decent damage.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Race: Scourge Aasimar: Con+1, DM let me sacrifice 2 Charisma for a feat
Stats: Strength 16, Constitution 15(+1), Intelligence 16, Wisdom 14, Dexterity 10, Charisma 10
Starting Equipment: Glaive, Spear, Shield, Chainmail
Fighting Style: Defense
Feats: WarCaster (Race), Mounted Combatant, Polearm Master, Sentinel
ASI Allocation 1: Strength 16+4, Intelligence 16+2 or Con 16+2 (6 Points Total)
ASI Allocation 2: Strength 16+2, Intelligence 16+2, Con 16+2 (6 Points Total)
ASI Allocation 3: Strength 16+4, Intelligence 16+2, Con 16+2 (8 Points Total, No Sentinel)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Level 1-8 Eldritch Knight Fighter)
Cantrips
Light (Race)
Booming Blade
Minor Illusion
Level 1 Spells
Shield
Absorb Elements
Expeditious Retreat
Burning Hands (Level 4)
Level 2 Spells
Warding Wind (Level 7)
Enlarge/Reduce (Level 8)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Level 9-14 War Mage Wizard)
Cantrips
Lightning Lure
Shocking Grasp
Blade Ward
Message (Level 12)
Level 1 Spells
Identify (Level 9)
Detect Magic (Level 9)
Feather Fall (Level 9)
Fog Cloud (Level 9)
Grease (Level 9)
Sleep (Level 9)
Protection from Good and Evil (Level 10)
Silent Image (Level 10)
Level 2 Spells
Blur (Level 11)
Hold Person (Level 11)
Flock of Familiars (Level 12)
Detect Thoughts/Locate Object (Level 12)
Level 3 Spells
Counterspell (Level 13)
Haste (Level 13)
Fly (Level 14)
Major Image/Lightning Bolt (Level 14)
1. What spells or cantrips if any could be replaced with better options?
2. Any suggestions for the Feat/ASI order?
3. Should I bother with a Wyvern when I can make my War Horse fly and let it land safely with Feather Fall?
4. Should I get Phantom Steed even though it isn't as durable as a Warhorse?
5. Any magic Item suggestions other than Ring and Cloak of Protection?
6. Is a lance worth it when it doesn't benefit at all from Polearm Master and Sentinel?
7. Any suggestions for backup weapons or throwing weapons that I could potentially bond with?
8. How much intelligence do I really need?
Thanks for reading my post! If you have any suggestions or improvements please let me know!
Why is your fighter wielding daggers? They should be a rogue if they're doing that. Anyway, wyvern is so much better. Poison attacks, multiattack. You need high intelligence if you're going wizard, but if you were to stay ek then you would only need 14 unless you wanted it higher
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
P.E.G. is an amazing tanking spell. I have an ek/wiz in Tomb of Annihilation now, which has lots of undead. Why not take PEG with your level 3 EK spells? Standard opener is to cast Peg first, then action surge to move into attack range. Also, heavy armor master is a very good feat for tanking at early levels. PEG +HAM lets you laugh at crowds.
Without a decent INT, I dunno that i would bother with offensive cantrips or [especially] save/suck spells. Or much battlefield control [e.g. grease] Fog cloud is good defensively against ranged enemies though.
Mirror Image > Blur, given the choice.
You NEED misty step. It is a great "oh shit" spell. I'd use the wizard levels for contingency-type spells like misty step, feather fall, see invisibility, etc. Stuff you don't need often but that is great at the right monent.
Consider the warcaster feat and going sword/board. This lets you cast booming blade as an opportunity attack, which can effectively add to battlefield control. The shield will obviously improve your tanking.
Finally, shadow blade can be a strong use of your concentration.
I'm guessing the daggers are for bonding as a thrown weapon?
No that's not my fighter, the other fighter in my group is a battle master. Mine uses Spear and Shield. Also, I'm trying to decide between these two feats: Resilience- Dex and Spear Mastery. I'm sure the dex proficiency will come in handy but the increased accuracy and damage on my spear sound nice too. I can't decide.
Polearm mastery. Spears aren't finesse, so it would a better thing to do.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
What does finesse have to do with anything? I'm confused.
You can't use dex for attack rolls and damage for your spear. You have to use strength. So dex would only give you plus one AC. Whereas polearm mastery gives you extra damage, at least one. And up to four. So I'd say forget dex and go polearm mastery or ASI for strength
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
With your goal in mind, I'm not understanding the purpose of multi-classing. EK provides the buffs, utility, and occasional offensive spell that you want. Dropping 6 levels in the wizard class is a large chunk of hit points lost. If you rolled hit points that would be a potential of 4 hit points a level you would never be able to get. Using average that is 2 hit points a level you don't have cause you went wizard. If you intend to take damage then every point matters. I don't think the benefits of War Wizard level 6 outweigh the raw stats benefit of staying fighter. Raw stats are not flashy or cool sounding but they are very important.
Fighters get their biggest damage advantage with their base number of attacks. At 11 they have 3 and at 20 they have 4 attacks per round. This means they can get some good burst damage with well-timed Action Surges and that in long fights all other classes that rely on resources to do damage will fall off and start to only trickle damage in. As long as the fighter is standing he is still doing damage. As a fighter, you may never roll an entire crate of d6's like hyped up wizards do but they only get to do that a couple of times.
As for how much INT you need...that gets messy. If you want to shoot stuff with spells then the higher the better. If you are primarily going to focus on buffs and utility stuff that does not directly affect enemies then you can leave that pretty low. Especially if you do not multi-class. If you go with the shooter option and still try to be a good tank then you are getting heavy with the ability requirements. STR for hitting stuff, CON for getting hit, and then INT for shooting stuff and DEX for ranged weapon attacks/initiative.
A link to my EK in a very strange campaign. Most of the choices I made for him were theatrical and not made for practical reasons. This character is more upfront and hit them rather than take the hits but it does show you that INT doesn't have to be very high to be an effective EK.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Devolnu/characters/14491464
If you're really trying to lean hard into the tank, why not abjuration wizard? War Wizard certainly has some nice tank-y tricks, but abjuration, you can help out your allies, too.
Maybe a greenflame blade. I can't see why you'd use shocking grasp. If you're close enough to melee you'll take two regular attacks, then the bonus from PAM, which should beat out the shocking grasp damage. Unless you run into someone that has vulnerability to lightning damage.
I have a personal pet peeve with mounts where I find they are much cooler in theory than in practice. You (largely) can't take them indoors, and at least some of your fights will take place there. Depending on the campaign it could be a lot or even most of your fights taking place indoors. Boss fights, against creatures with lair actions, are almost by definition indoors or at least in a cave, generally not a place where you can maneuver a horse around (I know there can be exceptions, but how often is a creature's lair in the middle of an open field). Any fight you have where you're not mounted, you have a feat you took that's not doing anything for you. Unless you heard from your DM that there's going to be lots of fights in the open field you describe, that feat is a big investment for a trick you won't pull off very often. And even when mounts can actually be used, they die a lot. Their hp don't scale. So even with them basically getting evasion from you having mounted combatant, A warhorse with it's +1 dex save and 19 hp can very easily die when it gets caught in AoE spells, particularly at higher levels. (and since its not a PC, it doesn't get death saves. 0 hp means its dead, not just unconscious). And if its badly hurt, do you really think the party wants the cleric spending an action healing the horse? The horse can be cool and fun, yes, but they really need to be treated as almost like a consumable item that you don't expect to use for more than one battle, maybe 2. I'd not spend a feat on riding them.
Yeah, the only way I would ever go with Mounted Combatant is if I had a Circle of the Moon Druid with the Sentinel. Druid forms would scale better + self-healing + Feat synergy means if they attack "your mount" then you can force them to attack you. Since the druid would have Sentinel they get a reaction to attack.
Thank you for the insight! I decided to drop Mounted Combatant for Spear Master.
Regarding spells, I have the following suggestions:
Cantrips (E. Fighter)
All look good to me, I assume you have ranged weapon. If not, GET fire bolt. You do not want to be standing there as the guy on the horse with 1 hit point rides away.
Level 1 Spells (EF)
Absorb Elements looks great, but I RARELY use it. It uses your reaction and you have both AoO and Shield. Later you will get Counter-spell I suggest you consider replacing it with False Life. You can cast it before the battle and it lasts for an hour.
Level 2 Spells (EF)
Warding Wind is OK, but consider Misty Step. You are a Gish and the ability to move 30 ft as a bonus action is incredibly useful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Level 9-14 War Mage Wizard)
Cantrips (Wizard)
Blade Ward is useless. When are you going to want to spend an entire action to cut the damage done to you by weapons in half? Instead of attacking? Or just DODGING?
Consider replacing it with either Firebolt or Sword burst. Sword burst does Force damage to EVERYONE within 5 ft. You are probably going to be up close and I bet you will get surrounded.
Level 1 Spells
Identify and Detect Magic. (Level 9) Good spells, but do not memorize. RITUAL.
Sleep (Level 9) RARELY useful at your level. You can't boost it too high either. Consider replacing with Charm Person or False life (if you did not take it earlier)
Level 2 Spells
If you did not get Misty Step as an E.F., get it here.
I would consider Earthbind. You have a lot of spells to prepare, and Earthbind is VERY useful against a flying attacker. Often a better call than memorizing Featherfall.
Do not get Locate Objects. Rarely useful due to small range and other limitations. Detect Thoughts is helpful.
Level 3 Spells
Consider getting Vampiric Touch. Generally this is a crappy spell, because it requires you to get up close and personal. But you are a fighter so you will be doing that anyway.
Also, remember that you learn 2 spells every time you go up in Wizard, but you can trade spells with ANY wizard, as well as copy them from a stolen spell book or scroll. As a wizard you have no limit on the spells you learn, just the one you prepare. Expect to get a whole bunch of extra spells. In particular, I suggest every wizard go looking for the following Ritual spells, because they are always useful: