So I feel like the question I am about to ask is a no-brainer and battlemaster is the only way to go. That said humor me!
So my PC is a variant human currently a Fighter 2 Ranger 1 with 14 strength, 14 Dex, 18 int 13 Wis. She has GWF as a fighting style and the GWM feat currently. I am going to go to ranger 5 and pick up the archery style, gloom stalker subclass and sharpshooter feat. That should make her good at both melee and archery.
After that I will go back to fighter until level 4 (and get another feat). I am not sure what subclass to get for fighter at level 3. I really, really want to take arcane archer, I feel like that would be really cool and fun to play. At the same time I feel like anything other than balltemaster would be stupid and would be nerfing my character for no reason. Battlemaster works for both melee and archery and there is more uses to boot. I won't be going past level 4 as fighter, after that it will be wizard (diviner) for probably 2 levels and ranger until we retire around level 13.
What do you think?
The rest of the party is a rogue, a wizard .... and a war domain cleric who is constantly in melee, but is largely useless :-p.
After playing Arcane Archer for a long time, I can honestly say that Gomani nails it. I’d personally take AA over BM any day too, for the following reasons:
Curving Arrow: statistically, adds (on average) one hit per round. So when you have 4 attacks per round with Sharpshooter you might hit an average of 2.5 times per round, well with Curving Arrow you will hit an average of 3.5 times per round. That’s substantial damage right out of the gate.
Arrows: Note closely a few things with arrows:
1) The saves are varied - you can target almost every type of save out there as needed. This is invaluable as you get to the higher levels and face an opponent that can resist most of the Battlemaster options.
2) You choose the arcane shot option after hitting - you can save your Arrow strikes for Critical Hits. That’s 4d6 extra damage twice per short rest (8d6 at higher levels), without even considering the special effects yet.
3) Shadow Arrow - hit with that with your first attack and Action Surge the same round and you get a LOT of attacks with advantage.
4) Grasping Arrow - no save, automatic 2d6 damage with every move (even flying).
5) Banishing Arrow - guaranteed way to stop concentration by an enemy wizard, druid, or ranger (they don’t get charisma save proficiency)
Ever Ready Shot: That means you can Shadow every single battle, giving you an absolutely devestating first round strike every battle. Or, use Grasping and get some battlefield control on one target each time.
Feat combinations: There are a couple options, but because Curving Arrow already utilizes your Bonus Action, you’re better off getting the ASIs you need to max out your Dex/Int/Con.
1) Sharpshooter FOR sure. You *want* to be forced to use Curving Arrow every round so sharpshooter is your best friend. That utilizes your Bonus Action to it’s fullest.
2) Elven Accuracy - combined with Shadow arrow? Phew!
Damage Types: The arrow effects themselves do some of the more unique damage types: psychic, force, and necrotic
Lastly: You can also use any magic item that requires attunement by a spellcaster, opening up a lot of magic item options as well. (Wands for example)
And continued later...
Yeah, I can see the comparison but you will find they play completely different. An extra attack landing per round with curving arrow is the actual potency, which also adds the capability to apply those arrows as well (and fish for crits more easily).
To compare at Level 6, both with archery, sharpshooter, and max Dex (+5 to hit, +10 damage) vs AC 18 targets:
Arcane Archer, 2 attacks and Curved Arrow. Chance of 2 normal hits is 35.2%, chance of 1 hit is 43.2%, and chance of no hits is 21.6%. Damage per hit is average 4.5+10+5 = 19.5. 39*35.2% + 19.5*43.2% = 22.152
Battlemaster, 2 attacks. Chance of 2 normal hits is 16%, chance of 1 hit is 48%, and chance of no hits is 36%. 39*16% + 19.5*48% = 15.6.
Its a 42% increase in output per round. While some will gravitate to the Arrow Special effects, Curving Arrow really is the meat and potatoes of the class itself. Add on the fact you can choose any save, do some unique damage, and otherwise control the battlefield, it will definitely have a different flavour as you level up. I’ve played both and definitely enjoyed both, but they play very differently.
PS. Encourage your allies to give you some Flame Arrows...
I would obviously stand with Brewsky here when discussing the decision about Battlemaster vs Arcane Archer.
That being said, your character has a 14 in the two Ability Scores which are needed for melee and ranged attacks. Feats are nice, but especially GWM and Sharpshooter give you a -5 penalty. I would honestly recommend focussing on one of the two aspects and boosting the appropriate Ability Score to atleast 16 as soon as possible, preferably 18 or even 20. All the Bonus damage in the world won't happen, if you don't hit your target.
The two paths I would personally see for your build would be
1. Focus on STR, go with GWF and GWM. Your INT of 18 is cool if you go Eldritch Knight for a melee build. In this case, Hunter Archetype and Colossus Slayer for the Ranger make you hit like a truck.
2. If you really choose to go ranged, maybe reconsider your Fighting Style and lvl 1 Feat, if at all possible, with your DM. You will need an increase to DEX if you go this route. Keep in mind, Battlemaster gets his Maneuver DC from either DEX or STR, so you want DEX high when going ranged regardless. Arcane Archer DC depends on INT, it would profit from your high Score in that department.
Since Fighter gets the ASI at 4, 6 and 8, you should be able to push one score into a pretty decent spot.
First I’d say don’t worry about if you’re nerfing your character, go with whichever will be more fun. That said, I’d really agree with Gomani about the ASIs. You might want those fighter levels first so you can boost your abilities. You need to get either str or dex up. Also, I find it’s better to specialize than try and do everything. Either boost str and stick in melee or dex and stick with ranged. Combat-wise it’s better to be really good at one thing instead of ok at a few things, imo. With that party composition, you might want to stick with melee so the cleric doesn’t get swarmed, and the rogue has plenty of options for sneak attack.
So I feel like the question I am about to ask is a no-brainer and battlemaster is the only way to go. That said humor me!
So my PC is a variant human currently a Fighter 2 Ranger 1 with 14 strength, 14 Dex, 18 int 13 Wis. She has GWF as a fighting style and the GWM feat currently. I am going to go to ranger 5 and pick up the archery style, gloom stalker subclass and sharpshooter feat. That should make her good at both melee and archery.
After that I will go back to fighter until level 4 (and get another feat). I am not sure what subclass to get for fighter at level 3. I really, really want to take arcane archer, I feel like that would be really cool and fun to play. At the same time I feel like anything other than balltemaster would be stupid and would be nerfing my character for no reason. Battlemaster works for both melee and archery and there is more uses to boot. I won't be going past level 4 as fighter, after that it will be wizard (diviner) for probably 2 levels and ranger until we retire around level 13.
What do you think?
The rest of the party is a rogue, a wizard .... and a war domain cleric who is constantly in melee, but is largely useless :-p.
From another similar topic I wrote:
After playing Arcane Archer for a long time, I can honestly say that Gomani nails it. I’d personally take AA over BM any day too, for the following reasons:
Curving Arrow: statistically, adds (on average) one hit per round. So when you have 4 attacks per round with Sharpshooter you might hit an average of 2.5 times per round, well with Curving Arrow you will hit an average of 3.5 times per round. That’s substantial damage right out of the gate.
Arrows: Note closely a few things with arrows:
1) The saves are varied - you can target almost every type of save out there as needed. This is invaluable as you get to the higher levels and face an opponent that can resist most of the Battlemaster options.
2) You choose the arcane shot option after hitting - you can save your Arrow strikes for Critical Hits. That’s 4d6 extra damage twice per short rest (8d6 at higher levels), without even considering the special effects yet.
3) Shadow Arrow - hit with that with your first attack and Action Surge the same round and you get a LOT of attacks with advantage.
4) Grasping Arrow - no save, automatic 2d6 damage with every move (even flying).
5) Banishing Arrow - guaranteed way to stop concentration by an enemy wizard, druid, or ranger (they don’t get charisma save proficiency)
Ever Ready Shot: That means you can Shadow every single battle, giving you an absolutely devestating first round strike every battle. Or, use Grasping and get some battlefield control on one target each time.
Feat combinations: There are a couple options, but because Curving Arrow already utilizes your Bonus Action, you’re better off getting the ASIs you need to max out your Dex/Int/Con.
1) Sharpshooter FOR sure. You *want* to be forced to use Curving Arrow every round so sharpshooter is your best friend. That utilizes your Bonus Action to it’s fullest.
2) Elven Accuracy - combined with Shadow arrow? Phew!
Damage Types: The arrow effects themselves do some of the more unique damage types: psychic, force, and necrotic
Lastly: You can also use any magic item that requires attunement by a spellcaster, opening up a lot of magic item options as well. (Wands for example)
And continued later...
Yeah, I can see the comparison but you will find they play completely different. An extra attack landing per round with curving arrow is the actual potency, which also adds the capability to apply those arrows as well (and fish for crits more easily).
To compare at Level 6, both with archery, sharpshooter, and max Dex (+5 to hit, +10 damage) vs AC 18 targets:
Arcane Archer, 2 attacks and Curved Arrow. Chance of 2 normal hits is 35.2%, chance of 1 hit is 43.2%, and chance of no hits is 21.6%. Damage per hit is average 4.5+10+5 = 19.5. 39*35.2% + 19.5*43.2% = 22.152
Battlemaster, 2 attacks. Chance of 2 normal hits is 16%, chance of 1 hit is 48%, and chance of no hits is 36%. 39*16% + 19.5*48% = 15.6.
Its a 42% increase in output per round. While some will gravitate to the Arrow Special effects, Curving Arrow really is the meat and potatoes of the class itself. Add on the fact you can choose any save, do some unique damage, and otherwise control the battlefield, it will definitely have a different flavour as you level up. I’ve played both and definitely enjoyed both, but they play very differently.
PS. Encourage your allies to give you some Flame Arrows...
I would obviously stand with Brewsky here when discussing the decision about Battlemaster vs Arcane Archer.
That being said, your character has a 14 in the two Ability Scores which are needed for melee and ranged attacks. Feats are nice, but especially GWM and Sharpshooter give you a -5 penalty. I would honestly recommend focussing on one of the two aspects and boosting the appropriate Ability Score to atleast 16 as soon as possible, preferably 18 or even 20. All the Bonus damage in the world won't happen, if you don't hit your target.
The two paths I would personally see for your build would be
1. Focus on STR, go with GWF and GWM. Your INT of 18 is cool if you go Eldritch Knight for a melee build. In this case, Hunter Archetype and Colossus Slayer for the Ranger make you hit like a truck.
2. If you really choose to go ranged, maybe reconsider your Fighting Style and lvl 1 Feat, if at all possible, with your DM. You will need an increase to DEX if you go this route. Keep in mind, Battlemaster gets his Maneuver DC from either DEX or STR, so you want DEX high when going ranged regardless. Arcane Archer DC depends on INT, it would profit from your high Score in that department.
Since Fighter gets the ASI at 4, 6 and 8, you should be able to push one score into a pretty decent spot.
Cheers and have a nice weekend
Gomani
First I’d say don’t worry about if you’re nerfing your character, go with whichever will be more fun.
That said, I’d really agree with Gomani about the ASIs. You might want those fighter levels first so you can boost your abilities. You need to get either str or dex up.
Also, I find it’s better to specialize than try and do everything. Either boost str and stick in melee or dex and stick with ranged. Combat-wise it’s better to be really good at one thing instead of ok at a few things, imo. With that party composition, you might want to stick with melee so the cleric doesn’t get swarmed, and the rogue has plenty of options for sneak attack.
He specifically said he's not going past Fighter 4. Therefore, no curving shot, making Arcane Archer a terrible decision then.