Hey one of my player wants to play a Monk with this subclass. Since I didn't play a monk yet I don't know if this subclass is too strong or if it is balanced enough to let my player use this subclass.
I don't distinctly remember everything about it, but given that it is currently UA I would lean towards not allowing it. Although not always the case, UA material tends to be very strong because it is easier to take something strong and then make it weaker after playtest than vice versa.
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Draconic Disciple is a nice feature (4 elements monk should have had this) with changing damage type. And the bonus on two CHA skill checks (your CHA is probably a dump stat so a bump is nice) and learning draconic is nice flavor.
Breath of the Dragon doesn’t seem overpowered, takes your attack action (or one attack at 5th level), and gives the monk a damage boost they can use.
Wings Unfurled let’s you fly (genie warlocks get to fly too so seems consistent)
Aspect of the Wyrm seems powerful as your whole party can use their reaction for it, it it’s 4 Ki or once per long rest so you can use it twice with Ki and once for free, if you really want to use 8 points at 11th level for it. And it’s only a d8 until level 17 then a d10. But if you have 4 or 5 party members in your aura it can do some nice damage if concentrated on a single target. But your party may have other uses for their reaction.
Ascendant Aspect is powerful but you’re 17th level by then and Open Hand has Quivering Palm so not too powerful compared.
Breath of the Dragon is a short range AoE that can be used with things like Flurry of Blows which may or may not be something to watch out for. it does double and later triple the martial arts die so it does get stronger as you level but at the same time it doesn't have any static damage that is added to it. It's limited somewhat by proficiency number of uses. But that's basically a lie because any additional uses would be just 1 ki.
The Damage change on the various powers is completely unrestricted unlike similar abilities that made it into the game with Tasha's... Though the advantage to this is marginal at best even then because it's 5 of the most common types of magical damage but they are usually going to have an option still that isn't resisted in some way.
wings Unfurled is one of the weaker flying mechanics. But it is a flying mechanic for whatever you feel that is worth. It's going to cost a ki and is just further movement capability added on to step of the wind so it's not combinable with other features from step of the wind that would make it stronger...
Aspect of the Wyrm is potentially strong since it doesn't have any cost more than a bonus action on the first use. But not necessarily at the times you would really want it to be since the damage type it resists in it's range is the same one it inflicts and if your using it for the resistance then it's not going to do any damage likely to the thing inflicting it which also has to be inside of that aura of affect along with your allies. It only works for a minute but it can be used more times a day for 4 ki and a bonus action for each additional usage. If they were goign to release this officially I'd almost bet that this would have a 4 ki cost regardless.
Ascendant Aspect is really strong but it's also 17th level. So it deserves to be strong.
Overall it's exceedingly low ki cost like they hadn't decided where to put all of the ki costs yet and they were hoping playtest would help them decide where they should be placed. I wouldn't be surprised if costs weren't added to several of it's abilities. And all of it's limited use abilities like the Breath of the Dragon basically aren't because of seeming to test the viability of limited uses unless a resource is spent mechanics on a monk. It's not bad. But it's clearly written with some levels of power limiting in mind before they released it officially if they ever did. So you might have to consider putting limits on things as play goes on depending on what you see of how it's used.
Worth noting: The Breath of the Dragon subclass feature doesn't level correctly when multi-classing: You're supposed to get 1 use per Proficiency Bonus point, just like the Fighter - Rune Knight feature Giant's Might. Giant's Might correctly shows 1 use available per Proficiency Bonus, but Breath of the Dragon's uses are showing up based on class level, not character level.
It was yet another really weak sub-class to the monk... And I couldn't be more disappointed... since monk is my favorite class, look at this
Draconic Disciple (lvl3) Thematic
Breath of the Dragon (lvl3) A lot Weaker than the Dragonborn's Feature(lvl1)
Wings Unfurled (lvl6) limited jumping(because is flight that last until the end of your turn) that costs ki points.... Genie Warlock has true flight that last 10 minutes at the same lvl...
Aspect of the Wyrm (lvl11) 10ft!!! aura of fright OR 1 elemental resistance... 7th lvl feature from Ancient Paladin is better at fright with more ft, plus you gain at the same time resistance to ALL damage!!!!... Aspect of the Wyrm has the resistance, that's kinda good, but hidden behind 10 lvls of weakness...
Ascendant Aspect (lvl17!!!!!!!) more AoE for the bad damaging Breath of the Dragon, that costs ki points to activate..... blindsight... you know like the one you can get at lvl 1 from fighter... and finally explosive fury, 10ft aura dealing bad damage(4d10) that deals NO damage when getting the save... so now it has a bad synergy with Aspect of the Wyrm because is a 10 ft aura!
I don't know why they won't give the monk, and already F tier class, a somewhat good sub-class(Mercy is the better sub=class by far, and it isn't that good anyways when compared to the below average wizard/cleric) .... Other much stronger sub-classes get better features at lower levels... the monk is just constantly put at the bottom by force.
I also was kinda disappointed with Ascendant Dragon, both on the paper side of abilities and monk-ish thematic aspect. Anyone who plays a Monk knows that it can easily be outshines in one category or another by other classes, and as Mastermind95 pointed out, this is true with most of the subclass features here.
What usually interests me in a monk is the thematic for RPing a monk i have in mind. None of the descriptions for the subclass really gives me a beat character concept that I'm interested in making... yes, there's Uncle Iroh from Airbender doing his Dragon breath thing.. but the whole limited flight and fear aspects just don't appeal to me.
Getting off topic... but NO. I do not think there are any issues with this UA subclass. There's nothing broken or super powerful i would be concerned about as a DM, as long as your intent is not to throw out tons if low level minions that can be fried by dragons breath left and right.
Honestly, it could stand to be a good bit stronger even. Wizards of the Coast seem to genuinely struggle to make a Monk Sub-Class that isn't low to mid tier. Don't get me wrong, the Mercy and Shadow Monks are pretty good and perfectly serviceable, but if you want to be a really strong fist fighter, you're almost always going to be better off picking something like a Fighter or Barbarian and just taking the Unarmed Fighting Style via either class skill or Feat.
Honestly, it could stand to be a good bit stronger even. Wizards of the Coast seem to genuinely struggle to make a Monk Sub-Class that isn't low to mid tier. Don't get me wrong, the Mercy and Shadow Monks are pretty good and perfectly serviceable, but if you want to be a really strong fist fighter, you're almost always going to be better off picking something like a Fighter or Barbarian and just taking the Unarmed Fighting Style via either class skill or Feat.
Yeah Mercy is the best out there but Imo it just pulls even with some of the mid tier fighter/Barb subclass
Still yet to see a full on S-tier monk subclass but the closest we got is Mercy
If this is going to be their design philosophy for the “New Evolution” of D&D in 2024, I don’t have my hopes up for the Monk. You would think if they wanted to start making changes the Dragon monk would have faired better.
I saw a post earlier that in 5.5 they should just pull the monk since they obviously don’t want people playing it, and I’m prone to agree.
They nerfed this subclass so hard it seems outta sheer spite, meanwhile Ranger has 3-4 really good subclasses.
Monk has one.
Way of the Open Hand, Way of Shadows, and Way of Mercy are all excellent in my opinion, and all of the others have at least some good qualities. I do not think it is accurate to say monk only has one good subclass
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I saw a post earlier that in 5.5 they should just pull the monk since they obviously don’t want people playing it, and I’m prone to agree.
They nerfed this subclass so hard it seems outta sheer spite, meanwhile Ranger has 3-4 really good subclasses.
Monk has one.
Way of the Open Hand, Way of Shadows, and Way of Mercy are all excellent in my opinion, and all of the others have at least some good qualities. I do not think it is accurate to say monk only has one good subclass
The interesting part of those three is one common feature: They all get something as part of their normal monk uses.
Open hand gets to do something when they do flurry of blows without spending extra ki.
Shadow gets to teleport all over the place for free.
Mercy gets to do the Hands of Harm/Heal as part of Flurry of blows for free.
They all work so effortlessly with the monk class and do not force you to burn ki to use your subclass.
They ALMOST had it right with Dragon Monk except the fact that they upped the cost for when you run out of free uses...1ki made sense and was fine IMO.
Now its just underwhelming for 2 ki as the damage is a piddly amount of damage and you still can catch your party mates in the cone/line. 11th level 2 ki ALMOST makes sense as you increase to 3 die but ultimately its not worth it for 90% of campaigns. I still give it a lot of credit for the free uses though as that is a step in the right direction and it does make the subclass a step above several other monk subclasses.
Same deal with the Wings Unfurled...however I would much have rather had it been you get flight speed for a number of rounds equal to your PB once per short rest rather than the glorified jump it is now....its much better distance for sure but the fact you still have to land somewhere at the end of your turn is not super thematic and is needlessly limiting.
The major sins of the subclass come from the absolute butchering of the later level features. There was no reason to reduce the aura to 10ft and make it a frightened effect....the extra damage was way better for party cohesion and was different than other monk abilities. Now its just a slightly different flavor of the Long Death ability. The resistance is nice but the aura is small and the monk is a mobile machine that hamstringing it to be close to allies all the time is kind of restricting.
17th level is fine for the most part...the breath upgrade is good no complaints there and blind sight is useful although it does not super synergize with anything else you have (you do not create darkness and if you had a team that did so it would be weird to wait until 17th level to address it).
The worst aspect of the 17th level is the Explosive Fury....not only is 3d10 terrible damage for this level (your breath is doing the same damage at this point) but they take no damage on a successful save. Honestly who thought that was a good idea? Astral gets something like this but at 3rd level....just terrible.
The re-design shows a lack of thematic and mechanical fluidity that the UA proposed and takes a more unique concept and makes it needlessly mundane and copies aspects from other monks in the worst way possible.
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Hey one of my player wants to play a Monk with this subclass. Since I didn't play a monk yet I don't know if this subclass is too strong or if it is balanced enough to let my player use this subclass.
What do you think about allowing this subclass?
I don't distinctly remember everything about it, but given that it is currently UA I would lean towards not allowing it. Although not always the case, UA material tends to be very strong because it is easier to take something strong and then make it weaker after playtest than vice versa.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Or allow it but warn your player that it is UA and that you reserve the right to change/adjust it later on.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]To be honest with you it doesn’t look too bad.
Draconic Disciple is a nice feature (4 elements monk should have had this) with changing damage type. And the bonus on two CHA skill checks (your CHA is probably a dump stat so a bump is nice) and learning draconic is nice flavor.
Breath of the Dragon doesn’t seem overpowered, takes your attack action (or one attack at 5th level), and gives the monk a damage boost they can use.
Wings Unfurled let’s you fly (genie warlocks get to fly too so seems consistent)
Aspect of the Wyrm seems powerful as your whole party can use their reaction for it, it it’s 4 Ki or once per long rest so you can use it twice with Ki and once for free, if you really want to use 8 points at 11th level for it. And it’s only a d8 until level 17 then a d10. But if you have 4 or 5 party members in your aura it can do some nice damage if concentrated on a single target. But your party may have other uses for their reaction.
Ascendant Aspect is powerful but you’re 17th level by then and Open Hand has Quivering Palm so not too powerful compared.
I say give it a shot and see how it goes.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Breath of the Dragon is a short range AoE that can be used with things like Flurry of Blows which may or may not be something to watch out for. it does double and later triple the martial arts die so it does get stronger as you level but at the same time it doesn't have any static damage that is added to it. It's limited somewhat by proficiency number of uses. But that's basically a lie because any additional uses would be just 1 ki.
The Damage change on the various powers is completely unrestricted unlike similar abilities that made it into the game with Tasha's... Though the advantage to this is marginal at best even then because it's 5 of the most common types of magical damage but they are usually going to have an option still that isn't resisted in some way.
wings Unfurled is one of the weaker flying mechanics. But it is a flying mechanic for whatever you feel that is worth. It's going to cost a ki and is just further movement capability added on to step of the wind so it's not combinable with other features from step of the wind that would make it stronger...
Aspect of the Wyrm is potentially strong since it doesn't have any cost more than a bonus action on the first use. But not necessarily at the times you would really want it to be since the damage type it resists in it's range is the same one it inflicts and if your using it for the resistance then it's not going to do any damage likely to the thing inflicting it which also has to be inside of that aura of affect along with your allies. It only works for a minute but it can be used more times a day for 4 ki and a bonus action for each additional usage. If they were goign to release this officially I'd almost bet that this would have a 4 ki cost regardless.
Ascendant Aspect is really strong but it's also 17th level. So it deserves to be strong.
Overall it's exceedingly low ki cost like they hadn't decided where to put all of the ki costs yet and they were hoping playtest would help them decide where they should be placed. I wouldn't be surprised if costs weren't added to several of it's abilities. And all of it's limited use abilities like the Breath of the Dragon basically aren't because of seeming to test the viability of limited uses unless a resource is spent mechanics on a monk. It's not bad. But it's clearly written with some levels of power limiting in mind before they released it officially if they ever did. So you might have to consider putting limits on things as play goes on depending on what you see of how it's used.
Worth noting: The Breath of the Dragon subclass feature doesn't level correctly when multi-classing: You're supposed to get 1 use per Proficiency Bonus point, just like the Fighter - Rune Knight feature Giant's Might. Giant's Might correctly shows 1 use available per Proficiency Bonus, but Breath of the Dragon's uses are showing up based on class level, not character level.
It was yet another really weak sub-class to the monk... And I couldn't be more disappointed... since monk is my favorite class, look at this
Draconic Disciple (lvl3) Thematic
Breath of the Dragon (lvl3) A lot Weaker than the Dragonborn's Feature(lvl1)
Wings Unfurled (lvl6) limited jumping(because is flight that last until the end of your turn) that costs ki points.... Genie Warlock has true flight that last 10 minutes at the same lvl...
Aspect of the Wyrm (lvl11) 10ft!!! aura of fright OR 1 elemental resistance... 7th lvl feature from Ancient Paladin is better at fright with more ft, plus you gain at the same time resistance to ALL damage!!!!... Aspect of the Wyrm has the resistance, that's kinda good, but hidden behind 10 lvls of weakness...
Ascendant Aspect (lvl17!!!!!!!) more AoE for the bad damaging Breath of the Dragon, that costs ki points to activate..... blindsight... you know like the one you can get at lvl 1 from fighter... and finally explosive fury, 10ft aura dealing bad damage(4d10) that deals NO damage when getting the save... so now it has a bad synergy with Aspect of the Wyrm because is a 10 ft aura!
I don't know why they won't give the monk, and already F tier class, a somewhat good sub-class(Mercy is the better sub=class by far, and it isn't that good anyways when compared to the below average wizard/cleric) .... Other much stronger sub-classes get better features at lower levels... the monk is just constantly put at the bottom by force.
it's really weak, you are good to go
I also was kinda disappointed with Ascendant Dragon, both on the paper side of abilities and monk-ish thematic aspect. Anyone who plays a Monk knows that it can easily be outshines in one category or another by other classes, and as Mastermind95 pointed out, this is true with most of the subclass features here.
What usually interests me in a monk is the thematic for RPing a monk i have in mind. None of the descriptions for the subclass really gives me a beat character concept that I'm interested in making... yes, there's Uncle Iroh from Airbender doing his Dragon breath thing.. but the whole limited flight and fear aspects just don't appeal to me.
Getting off topic... but NO. I do not think there are any issues with this UA subclass. There's nothing broken or super powerful i would be concerned about as a DM, as long as your intent is not to throw out tons if low level minions that can be fried by dragons breath left and right.
Overall the UA is good but the official version is not IMO.
It comes off as a better 4 elemental monk as you get free uses of your monk subclass stuff (something I think ALL monk subclasses should get).
But beyond that I am not a fan of the official verson.
The UA version however is pretty good IMO. Feels like it can compete with Way of Mercy which is the best monk subclass.
Honestly, it could stand to be a good bit stronger even. Wizards of the Coast seem to genuinely struggle to make a Monk Sub-Class that isn't low to mid tier. Don't get me wrong, the Mercy and Shadow Monks are pretty good and perfectly serviceable, but if you want to be a really strong fist fighter, you're almost always going to be better off picking something like a Fighter or Barbarian and just taking the Unarmed Fighting Style via either class skill or Feat.
Yeah Mercy is the best out there but Imo it just pulls even with some of the mid tier fighter/Barb subclass
Still yet to see a full on S-tier monk subclass but the closest we got is Mercy
If this is going to be their design philosophy for the “New Evolution” of D&D in 2024, I don’t have my hopes up for the Monk. You would think if they wanted to start making changes the Dragon monk would have faired better.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yeah, Way of the Ascendant Dragon got hit hard by the nerf bat.
I saw a post earlier that in 5.5 they should just pull the monk since they obviously don’t want people playing it, and I’m prone to agree.
They nerfed this subclass so hard it seems outta sheer spite, meanwhile Ranger has 3-4 really good subclasses.
Monk has one.
Way of the Open Hand, Way of Shadows, and Way of Mercy are all excellent in my opinion, and all of the others have at least some good qualities. I do not think it is accurate to say monk only has one good subclass
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
The interesting part of those three is one common feature: They all get something as part of their normal monk uses.
Open hand gets to do something when they do flurry of blows without spending extra ki.
Shadow gets to teleport all over the place for free.
Mercy gets to do the Hands of Harm/Heal as part of Flurry of blows for free.
They all work so effortlessly with the monk class and do not force you to burn ki to use your subclass.
They ALMOST had it right with Dragon Monk except the fact that they upped the cost for when you run out of free uses...1ki made sense and was fine IMO.
Now its just underwhelming for 2 ki as the damage is a piddly amount of damage and you still can catch your party mates in the cone/line. 11th level 2 ki ALMOST makes sense as you increase to 3 die but ultimately its not worth it for 90% of campaigns. I still give it a lot of credit for the free uses though as that is a step in the right direction and it does make the subclass a step above several other monk subclasses.
Same deal with the Wings Unfurled...however I would much have rather had it been you get flight speed for a number of rounds equal to your PB once per short rest rather than the glorified jump it is now....its much better distance for sure but the fact you still have to land somewhere at the end of your turn is not super thematic and is needlessly limiting.
The major sins of the subclass come from the absolute butchering of the later level features. There was no reason to reduce the aura to 10ft and make it a frightened effect....the extra damage was way better for party cohesion and was different than other monk abilities. Now its just a slightly different flavor of the Long Death ability. The resistance is nice but the aura is small and the monk is a mobile machine that hamstringing it to be close to allies all the time is kind of restricting.
17th level is fine for the most part...the breath upgrade is good no complaints there and blind sight is useful although it does not super synergize with anything else you have (you do not create darkness and if you had a team that did so it would be weird to wait until 17th level to address it).
The worst aspect of the 17th level is the Explosive Fury....not only is 3d10 terrible damage for this level (your breath is doing the same damage at this point) but they take no damage on a successful save. Honestly who thought that was a good idea? Astral gets something like this but at 3rd level....just terrible.
The re-design shows a lack of thematic and mechanical fluidity that the UA proposed and takes a more unique concept and makes it needlessly mundane and copies aspects from other monks in the worst way possible.