Any class/race is viable. Are you asking if it is optimized, because that’s a different question. You can be a perfectly good leonin monk, but some other races may be slightly better than you, mathematically. Obviously, what matters most is if it is fun for you, more than what the math says.
And I’ll add that if you use Tasha’s optional rules for floating ability scores, then every class/race is even more viable. Again, some may work out slightly better, but everything works.
Pretty much all races are viable for all classes, especially with using Tasha’s rules for moving ability modifiers.
For Leonin, it’s no different. I would think you could use your claws for your unarmed strikes to do either slashing or bludgeoning. And use your DEX modifier instead of STR per the martial arts feature of monks
Probably not optimal, but not bad, really. Everyone can use con, so that’s good. You’ll get next to nothing from the str boost, since you want dex and wis.
Other abilities are solid, but not great, at least not specifically for monks. Speed is nice, and will go higher, darkvision is good for everyone, ditto skill proficiencies. The roar is ok. Your con probably won’t be too high, since you’ll need to invest in dex and wis, but you might get some use out of it.
Claws could allow some unarmed attacks as slashing instead of bludgeoning, but mechanically there’s really no difference between the two. And if your DM is a stickler, it says the bonus there is d4+str, which won’t be as good as your dex bonus unarmed attacks. Personally, I wouldn’t make a big deal of that, but other DMs might.
Claws could allow some unarmed attacks as slashing instead of bludgeoning, but mechanically there’s really no difference between the two. And if your DM is a stickler, it says the bonus there is d4+str, which won’t be as good as your dex bonus unarmed attacks. Personally, I wouldn’t make a big deal of that, but other DMs might.
Monk will override that with martial arts, letting the claws be dex based and scaling with martial arts die.
I want to know if its optimal, without using Tasha's cauldron stats moving
No. Being a Strength monk is inherently sub-optimal unless you're a Tortle. The rest of the race is fine, but what you need in a non-Tasha's monk race is racial mods to Dex, Wis, and Con - the three stats a monk cares about - and Dex/Wis is slightly better than Con. If you're locked to listed racial stat mods, Leonins make excellent barbarians and paladins in particular, and they're just fine at fighter and ranger, too.
If you really had to use Leonin for a monk I would think that, if you use Standard Array put 15 Dex, 14 con, 13 wis, 12 int, 10 cha, 8 str. The boost to con to 16 will help a little with survival until you can get Dex and wis up, probably level 4 asi, which gets them to 16/14 so 15 AC, 13 until level 4 :(
point buy you can put both wis and Dex at 15 and bump to 16 at level 4.
so, yeah, not optimal but depending on campaign might be doable.
IMO I'd suggest go for it. The stat adjustments will be minimal enough to not break anything, but as opposed to those saying leave Dex and Wis both odd until ASI, no. Bring one up (Dex first I would suggest) and Wis on the ASI. Having one high enough to give a bonus to either attacks (Dex) or your save DC (Wis) while the other lags a bit will likely serve you better than having both almost there. Using Point buy, you can make a solid Monk from any race, and the "optimal" races will only give you maybe a 1 point bonus on a stat over the non-optimals.
You like the thematic side, so use it. My Monk is an Air Genasi, which isn't the ideal choice, but thematically and what I wanted him to be, fit best as an Air soul. I feel my numbers are sufficient and I carry my weight in combat (level 9) and most importantly, I am playing a character I enjoy a lot, even if my combat mechanic is getting old to me. I love where he's taken me, and I am pretty sure a difference race wouldn't have been as fun.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
IMO I'd suggest go for it. The stat adjustments will be minimal enough to not break anything, but as opposed to those saying leave Dex and Wis both odd until ASI, no. Bring one up (Dex first I would suggest) and Wis on the ASI. Having one high enough to give a bonus to either attacks (Dex) or your save DC (Wis) while the other lags a bit will likely serve you better than having both almost there. Using Point buy, you can make a solid Monk from any race, and the "optimal" races will only give you maybe a 1 point bonus on a stat over the non-optimals.
You like the thematic side, so use it. My Monk is an Air Genasi, which isn't the ideal choice, but thematically and what I wanted him to be, fit best as an Air soul. I feel my numbers are sufficient and I carry my weight in combat (level 9) and most importantly, I am playing a character I enjoy a lot, even if my combat mechanic is getting old to me. I love where he's taken me, and I am pretty sure a difference race wouldn't have been as fun.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. But B218 said no Tasha’s stat moving so the highest you can start with is 15 in DEX and/or WIS. It’s why I suggested leaving them odd until level 4 ASI. Just curious how you would suggest stat placement.
But, yeah, if this is the character you want to play, B218, go for it.
If you like the theme of playing a lion-humanoid specifically, then you should try it. That said, you might want to keep the following in mind:
* The more your party relies on you to act like the front line in combat, the less survivable your PC becomes. Low level Monks are easy to kill due to lack of armor, shields, or ability to fight from the back line. Partially this is also cause you won't have much Ki to spend on stuff like Patient Defense without sacrificing DPR. The +2 CON helps a bit here, but you'll need more healing support or potions to really make this work. Otherwise, stick to skirmishing and hope your party has some tough melee types .
* Leonins, while they have claws, lack the built-in climbing ability of Tabaxi, so you don't have their maneuverability and escape options if things go wrong for you. Again, this becomes less of an issue after Level 5 due to the increase in Ki for Step of the Wind and Patient Defense.
Don't bother too much with being optimal or all you'll be playing is variant human...
The con is nice, the extra speed is nice, though monk already gets a lot of that. Claws are irrelevant though you will be "using" those through martial arts anyway. Extra skills is always good and the roar is cool, though monks are pretty unlikely to bump their con.
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Is a leonin monk viable?
Any class/race is viable. Are you asking if it is optimized, because that’s a different question. You can be a perfectly good leonin monk, but some other races may be slightly better than you, mathematically. Obviously, what matters most is if it is fun for you, more than what the math says.
And I’ll add that if you use Tasha’s optional rules for floating ability scores, then every class/race is even more viable. Again, some may work out slightly better, but everything works.
Pretty much all races are viable for all classes, especially with using Tasha’s rules for moving ability modifiers.
For Leonin, it’s no different. I would think you could use your claws for your unarmed strikes to do either slashing or bludgeoning. And use your DEX modifier instead of STR per the martial arts feature of monks
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I want to know if its optimal, without using Tasha's cauldron stats moving
Probably not optimal, but not bad, really. Everyone can use con, so that’s good. You’ll get next to nothing from the str boost, since you want dex and wis.
Other abilities are solid, but not great, at least not specifically for monks. Speed is nice, and will go higher, darkvision is good for everyone, ditto skill proficiencies. The roar is ok. Your con probably won’t be too high, since you’ll need to invest in dex and wis, but you might get some use out of it.
Claws could allow some unarmed attacks as slashing instead of bludgeoning, but mechanically there’s really no difference between the two. And if your DM is a stickler, it says the bonus there is d4+str, which won’t be as good as your dex bonus unarmed attacks. Personally, I wouldn’t make a big deal of that, but other DMs might.
Monk will override that with martial arts, letting the claws be dex based and scaling with martial arts die.
No. Being a Strength monk is inherently sub-optimal unless you're a Tortle. The rest of the race is fine, but what you need in a non-Tasha's monk race is racial mods to Dex, Wis, and Con - the three stats a monk cares about - and Dex/Wis is slightly better than Con. If you're locked to listed racial stat mods, Leonins make excellent barbarians and paladins in particular, and they're just fine at fighter and ranger, too.
If you really had to use Leonin for a monk I would think that, if you use Standard Array put 15 Dex, 14 con, 13 wis, 12 int, 10 cha, 8 str. The boost to con to 16 will help a little with survival until you can get Dex and wis up, probably level 4 asi, which gets them to 16/14 so 15 AC, 13 until level 4 :(
point buy you can put both wis and Dex at 15 and bump to 16 at level 4.
so, yeah, not optimal but depending on campaign might be doable.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Maybe tell us what aspect of the Leonin you like particularly? That makes it easier for the community here to provide useful information.
Well, I like the claws, I like the roar, I like the stat bonuses, and I like the thematic element.
IMO I'd suggest go for it. The stat adjustments will be minimal enough to not break anything, but as opposed to those saying leave Dex and Wis both odd until ASI, no. Bring one up (Dex first I would suggest) and Wis on the ASI. Having one high enough to give a bonus to either attacks (Dex) or your save DC (Wis) while the other lags a bit will likely serve you better than having both almost there. Using Point buy, you can make a solid Monk from any race, and the "optimal" races will only give you maybe a 1 point bonus on a stat over the non-optimals.
You like the thematic side, so use it. My Monk is an Air Genasi, which isn't the ideal choice, but thematically and what I wanted him to be, fit best as an Air soul. I feel my numbers are sufficient and I carry my weight in combat (level 9) and most importantly, I am playing a character I enjoy a lot, even if my combat mechanic is getting old to me. I love where he's taken me, and I am pretty sure a difference race wouldn't have been as fun.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. But B218 said no Tasha’s stat moving so the highest you can start with is 15 in DEX and/or WIS. It’s why I suggested leaving them odd until level 4 ASI. Just curious how you would suggest stat placement.
But, yeah, if this is the character you want to play, B218, go for it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
If you like the theme of playing a lion-humanoid specifically, then you should try it. That said, you might want to keep the following in mind:
* The more your party relies on you to act like the front line in combat, the less survivable your PC becomes. Low level Monks are easy to kill due to lack of armor, shields, or ability to fight from the back line. Partially this is also cause you won't have much Ki to spend on stuff like Patient Defense without sacrificing DPR. The +2 CON helps a bit here, but you'll need more healing support or potions to really make this work. Otherwise, stick to skirmishing and hope your party has some tough melee types .
* Leonins, while they have claws, lack the built-in climbing ability of Tabaxi, so you don't have their maneuverability and escape options if things go wrong for you. Again, this becomes less of an issue after Level 5 due to the increase in Ki for Step of the Wind and Patient Defense.
Don't bother too much with being optimal or all you'll be playing is variant human...
The con is nice, the extra speed is nice, though monk already gets a lot of that. Claws are irrelevant though you will be "using" those through martial arts anyway. Extra skills is always good and the roar is cool, though monks are pretty unlikely to bump their con.