So elemental attunement is always compared to Prestidigitation but when I look at it there are a lot of advantages for the monk over the wizard.
Elemental Attunement
You can use your action to briefly control elemental forces within 30 feet of you, causing one of the following effects of your choice:
Create a harmless, instantaneous sensory effect related to air, earth, fire, or water, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, a spray of light mist, or a gentle rumbling of stone.
Instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire.
Chill or warm up to 1 pound of nonliving material for up to 1 hour.
Cause earth, fire, water, or mist that can fit within a 1-foot cube to shape itself into a crude form you designate for 1 minute.
so its not a spell and has no components. This means it is completely undetectable as to who caused the affect. Making it superior for distraction and subterfuge. Also means it should work in anti-magic zones.( anti-magic is up for debate and may be wrong or it may be an exception. Check with your dm)
no limit on instances. I see people "warm" coats (in cold environments to help with saves) a lot. A wizard can only do it for three people, a monk can do it for the whole party and still have other effects up. or have multiple 1 min cubes of modified earth, fire, water or mist at the same time.
More options. they get some thaumaturgy like stuff in point 1 and the extra point about a cubic foot of material shaping. this can do much of the illusion or trinket making the wizard can do and it lasts longer. self cleaning shouldn't be a problem either. You can Make a hand full of earthen-ware shanks/daggers or "simple" tools or caltrops. Make "water lenses" telescope. your dm may even let you make fire darts to throw at Opponents. You can spread or move fires carrying it along for later use.
3x the range of a wizard with prestidigitation.
Basically, Any dm that lets you use prestidigitation well, will also let you use the monk version to greater effect. This, Along with some other posts from Fateless, have me starting to re- think 4 elements monk.
Fateless's coments can be found here( read just fateless's post and you'll save some time(the whole thread is also there). Although, its still novella length.)
Yeah, it's a pretty good ability that doesn't get enough recognition.
I do need to contradict you on one point; all elemental disciplines are considered magical so it doesn't work in an anti-magic field. The other benefits you've listed still apply though.
Not a hill I am willing to die on. I would never argue that point with a dm that disagreed and you may be right but I don't see it.
I still say it passes the is it magical test presented in sage advice:
Is it a magic item? • No
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description? • No
Is it a spell attack? • No
Is it fueled by the use of spell slots? • No
Does its description say it’s magical? the specific description = No. The general descriptions = yes?.
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
so the last question is a maybe. I see it going both ways.
This is the Phrase, IMO, that is important besides general ki comments about magic
Disciple of the Elements
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. A discipline requires you to spend ki points each time you use it.......
There is a slight weirdness in that it says it lets you learn magical disciplines. It does not say that all the disciplines are magical. It is also an exception to the ki spending(or maybe you just spend 0 ki?) I don't know it feels just like when dragons are called magical creatures but their breath isn't.
You are probably right and I will adjust my post according.
At the very least, I have seen comments from some of the top youtubers make statements similar to " you get a worse version of Prestidigitation" or " your stuck with a ""not as good""-prestidigitation"
That was the part I was referencing. To me it suggests all disciplines are magical but I won't complain if I'm wrong. Other than the antimagic field it doesn't have too much impact that I can think of.
A lot of players are focused on optimising their build for combat and they overlook the benefits of features like Elemental Affinity that can really help the party outside of combat, and with some creative thought can help during a fight too. I hope that people read this and give it a fair chance.
That was the part I was referencing. To me it suggests all disciplines are magical but I won't complain if I'm wrong. Other than the antimagic field it doesn't have too much impact that I can think of.
A lot of players are focused on optimising their build for combat and they overlook the benefits of features like Elemental Affinity that can really help the party outside of combat, and with some creative thought can help during a fight too. I hope that people read this and give it a fair chance.
I think those are very good points I don't wanna hijack your thread but now I'm wondering how a DM would respond (if they said that this is magical) to the question of how most of the other Monkabilities (such as the damage they do with their punches or their increasing AC or other stuff) would be affected in an anti-magic field (that is if the DM is trying to maintain logical consistency)?
I would like to point out : dispelling, special cases(Planar zones, "NPC rituals", Faerzress) and anti-magic fields are all things in the game but not wide spread. I like the idea that monks "usually" beat these restrictions intentionally.
Well right now the best we have is the sage advice checklist. ki is kind of referred to magical but only in the "flavor portion" of the monk section but it is referred to as "mystical" in the "ki ability description.
I would say talk it over your dm and see if its a concept that adds interesting elements for the story your group wants to play. Personally I think its a good thing to add just to get people to try new classes and avoid the whole idea of superior adventuring classes.
There is at least one wotc official adventure book that has a special area of restricted spellcasting. It turned a boring, easy combat into a normal difficulty one. it was cool to see the warlock and cleric and wizard start to think of clever solutions and pass around weapons.(or figure out the rules) the rogue Had a chance to shine even though he normally was a melee one(so having a harder time standing out in game). I think all my PCs except the warlock thought it was fun. the warlock was kind of traumatized and pouty because he sold his crossbow and went from "untouchable" to "feeling useless" real quick. eventually he figured it out. post fight he got a new weapon and moved on better informed of the dangers of adventuring and a little more respect for martial options.
Ki is not magical per the test set in Sage Advice. The only suggestion of it being magical comes from the introduction to the class which is just flavour. There is nothing in the class feature itself that calls Ki magical. Some subclass features that use Ki are magical, but that only applies to those particular features.
Also bear in mind that just because a class feature is magical doesn't make it a spell, so dispel magic and other things that affect spellcasting will not apply. Antimagic is the main problem because it suppresses both spells and magical effects.
I’m a little new to deep looks at monks, but I never saw the 4 elements monk as any kind of weak, or underpowered. The opposite, actually.
This ability, specifically, is really amazing. You pretty much listed a bunch of good stuff already, and, wow, a couple I hadn’t thought of!
Many see 4E Monk as the worst monk subclass. Especially due to how fast you can burn through Ki using the various disciplines (which are your subclass features, you get no others). See the thread the OP shared.
Yeah, it's a pretty good ability that doesn't get enough recognition.
I do need to contradict you on one point; all elemental disciplines are considered magical so it doesn't work in an anti-magic field. The other benefits you've listed still apply though.
And I think it doesn’t get enough recognition because you gain so few disciplines that many swap it out at the first possibility.
Yeah, it's a pretty good ability that doesn't get enough recognition.
I do need to contradict you on one point; all elemental disciplines are considered magical so it doesn't work in an anti-magic field. The other benefits you've listed still apply though.
And I think it doesn’t get enough recognition because you gain so few disciplines that many swap it out at the first possibility.
Yeah. At the end of the day, the elemental disciplines you choose ARE your subclass abilities of Way of the Four Elements Monk (which is part of the reason I dont like 4EM as it currently stands). So choosing to hold onto Elemental Attunement instead of trading it out means sacrificing the possibility of casting Fly or Stoneskin and so on and so forth.
While the OP does outline some interesting applications that set it apart, the uses for Elemental Attunement are situational, depend on DM interpretation in some cases, and will generally be more useful for RP than anything else. Thats not to say its not worth anything, just that it will probably be used less frequently than the other disciplines in a game unless that game is heavily RP based
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But some of the most common complaints about monk Are ki expenditure. By keeping It, you have a zero cost ability that is always useful and on theme for the subclass. I believe trying to take all the cool sounding stuff too early is a huge trap. Another group conversation lead to the idea that basically keeping elemental disciplines allows for 1 of each element up till 11 creating a good balance of theme and utility (assuming you tailor to your role). Thanks to that other group.
Plus Moving fire can be battle helpful for field control. Having ceramic daggers/darts anytime means you never "have" to carry other weapons. What about climbing. always having options for rock climbing is huge. Just modify the face for hand holds over and over. You don't need it but the party will thank you. (DM dependent point: there may even be a weirdness to the size rules allowing a cubic foot of water to be stretched thin enough to use as a long rope. for any climbing)
even with a strict dm, I I would be able to use it every day as a PC to make things just a little bit easier.
But some of the most common complaints about monk Are ki expenditure. By keeping It, you have a zero cost ability that is always useful and on theme for the subclass. I believe trying to take all the cool sounding stuff too early is a huge trap. Another group conversation lead to the idea that basically keeping elemental disciplines allows for 1 of each element up till 11 creating a good balance of theme and utility (assuming you tailor to your role). Thanks to that other group.
Plus Moving fire can be battle helpful for field control. Having ceramic daggers/darts anytime means you never "have" to carry other weapons. What about climbing.always having options for rock climbing is huge. Just modify the face for hand holds over and over. You don't need it but the party will thank you. (DM dependent point: there may even be a weirdness to the size rules allowing a cubic foot of water to be stretched thin enough to use as a long rope. for any climbing)
even with a strict dm, I I would be able to use it every day as a PC to make things just a little bit easier.
1) While I agree that it is nice to have an ability that costs no ki, I disagree that it is "always useful" it is situational imo. Most of the examples you have come up with either wont come up in a given campaign, or will likely come up infrequently. In either case, its unlikely Elemental Attunement will be the best tool at the party's disposal for solving such a problem.
2) Moving fire relies on the fire already being present, so this aspect of using it relies on you using another ED or tag teaming with a party member.
3) Monks are already good at not needing to carry weapons, their body is a weapon. Also I am not sure producing weapons (especially ceramic ones) works RAW for this ability. It says that it takes a "crude" shape, so getting a sharp edge or the correct weight distribution for a thrown weapon could be too much detail depending on DM interpretation.
4) What about climbing? The benefit you list only works if the monk is climbing a rock cliff, but not for trees, buildings, or anything else. Plus, at 9th level, monks can just run up walls, so (as you already said) the monk itself doesnt need it.
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There are two clear winners for elemental attunement, and they're both in the final bullet:
Cause earth, fire, water, or mist that can fit within a 1-foot cube to shape itself into a crude form you designate for 1 minute.
That means a monk can't be stopped by stone or ice, and can tell liquid water to maintain a shape and act like a solid, which means portable cover. This is easily as good as Shape Water - you lose some abilities, like cracking things open by ordering liquid water to turn to ice, but the ability to simply tell a stone wall to get out of your way is incredible. Since the ability does this and more, it's absolutely in the set of S tier cantrips, like Shape Water and Minor Illusion (which it also has some overlap with in how you can use it). I think it's ludicrous to call it Prestidigitation but worse.
Its a decent ability for sure...I do not think its crazy good by any means but its certainly not bad either.
Overall its worth it to have it more often than not simply because it gives you something to do outside of combat and adds a lot of thematic flavor to the subclass.
However, its attached to what I believe is one of the worst (not the worst that is sun soul IMO) monk subclasses. Also I think the monk specific stuff (Unbroken Fist, Fire Fang, etc...) are more fun for me personally so I would likely go to that instead myself.
Also some generous interpretations for earth molding....I as a DM would personally NOT allow it to function as a mold stone spell as I believe its intent is to be purely flavor and not a mechanical advantage....but I might be in the minority there.
There are two clear winners for elemental attunement, and they're both in the final bullet:
Cause earth, fire, water, or mist that can fit within a 1-foot cube to shape itself into a crude form you designate for 1 minute.
That means a monk can't be stopped by stone or ice, and can tell liquid water to maintain a shape and act like a solid, which means portable cover. This is easily as good as Shape Water - you lose some abilities, like cracking things open by ordering liquid water to turn to ice, but the ability to simply tell a stone wall to get out of your way is incredible. Since the ability does this and more, it's absolutely in the set of S tier cantrips, like Shape Water and Minor Illusion (which it also has some overlap with in how you can use it). I think it's ludicrous to call it Prestidigitation but worse.
Does "earth" include solid stone as well?
The reason I ask, is because the cantrip Mold Earth is only capable of moving "loose earth." It does have effects which affect stone, but none that involve moving or changing its shape. To do what you are saying with solid stone, you would usually need a spell like Stone Shape. I find it unlikely that having a monk that can tunnel through stone at 3rd level when Stone Shape is a 4th level spell is RAI for the ability.
Theres alot of room for DM interpretation for Elemental Attunement, but if you are arguing that a cantrip-like ability can be as powerful as 4th level spells, I feel most DMs will not rule in your favor.
Edit: Also, where are you getting that Elemental Attunement means a monk can't be stopped by ice? Reading the description, their reshaping ability only applies to water or mist, not ice specifically. You could argue that the warming ability allows the ice to be melted into water, but it the ability does not outline how significant the chilling/warming is. Whether this would be sufficient for melting ice (in an environment that may be below freezing temperatures) is definitely not clear cut.
There are two clear winners for elemental attunement, and they're both in the final bullet:
Cause earth, fire, water, or mist that can fit within a 1-foot cube to shape itself into a crude form you designate for 1 minute.
That means a monk can't be stopped by stone or ice, and can tell liquid water to maintain a shape and act like a solid, which means portable cover. This is easily as good as Shape Water - you lose some abilities, like cracking things open by ordering liquid water to turn to ice, but the ability to simply tell a stone wall to get out of your way is incredible. Since the ability does this and more, it's absolutely in the set of S tier cantrips, like Shape Water and Minor Illusion (which it also has some overlap with in how you can use it). I think it's ludicrous to call it Prestidigitation but worse.
Does "earth" include solid stone as well?
The reason I ask, is because the cantrip Mold Earth is only capable of moving "loose earth." It does have effects which affect stone, but none that involve moving or changing its shape. To do what you are saying with solid stone, you would usually need a spell like Stone Shape. I find it unlikely that having a monk that can tunnel through stone at 3rd level when Stone Shape is a 4th level spell is RAI for the ability.
Theres alot of room for DM interpretation for Elemental Attunement, but if you are arguing that a cantrip-like ability can be as powerful as 4th level spells, I feel most DMs will not rule in your favor.
Edit: Also, where are you getting that Elemental Attunement means a monk can't be stopped by ice? Reading the description, their reshaping ability only applies to water or mist, not ice specifically. You could argue that the warming ability allows the ice to be melted into water, but it the ability does not outline how significant the chilling/warming is. Whether this would be sufficient for melting ice (in an environment that may be below freezing temperatures) is definitely not clear cut.
Where do you get your interpretation that ice isn'twater?
Effects like the ones listed in this ability, and other so called ribbon abilities and cantrips can (and do with me as your DM) and should play into social encounters. Deception, slight of hand, performance, stealth, and intimidation can all benefit from effects like these. Many people say that travel and exploration aren’t group activities (so very wrong, but off topic for this thread) and the same for social encounters too. Just like a good real-life magician, broadway production, or high production music concert, effects like these impress, distract, scare, and otherwise effect the attention and mood of others. They can be used much of the time in any game.
And, if you are at a table that is just worried about battles and dealing a bunch of damage to a BBEG with overly and unnecessarily hyper optimized characters, just swap this out at level 6. Easy peazy.
There are two clear winners for elemental attunement, and they're both in the final bullet:
Cause earth, fire, water, or mist that can fit within a 1-foot cube to shape itself into a crude form you designate for 1 minute.
That means a monk can't be stopped by stone or ice, and can tell liquid water to maintain a shape and act like a solid, which means portable cover. This is easily as good as Shape Water - you lose some abilities, like cracking things open by ordering liquid water to turn to ice, but the ability to simply tell a stone wall to get out of your way is incredible. Since the ability does this and more, it's absolutely in the set of S tier cantrips, like Shape Water and Minor Illusion (which it also has some overlap with in how you can use it). I think it's ludicrous to call it Prestidigitation but worse.
Does "earth" include solid stone as well?
The reason I ask, is because the cantrip Mold Earth is only capable of moving "loose earth." It does have effects which affect stone, but none that involve moving or changing its shape. To do what you are saying with solid stone, you would usually need a spell like Stone Shape. I find it unlikely that having a monk that can tunnel through stone at 3rd level when Stone Shape is a 4th level spell is RAI for the ability.
Theres alot of room for DM interpretation for Elemental Attunement, but if you are arguing that a cantrip-like ability can be as powerful as 4th level spells, I feel most DMs will not rule in your favor.
Edit: Also, where are you getting that Elemental Attunement means a monk can't be stopped by ice? Reading the description, their reshaping ability only applies to water or mist, not ice specifically. You could argue that the warming ability allows the ice to be melted into water, but it the ability does not outline how significant the chilling/warming is. Whether this would be sufficient for melting ice (in an environment that may be below freezing temperatures) is definitely not clear cut.
Where do you get your interpretation that ice isn'twater?
When a spell or other effect can turn water into ice or shape ice, it explicitly says so.
[Edit. I may be wrong in this point. I could have sworn a spell in 5e explicitly stated that it allowed the creation and shaping of ice, but I cannot seem to find it. The closest thing I can find is that Shape Water allows you to freeze water for 1 hour. That being said, there is a difference between Water and Ice, as they are different forms of matter. Elemental Attunement states two forms of water it can interact with (water and mist) but it does not state it can interact with ice or act to frezze/unfreeze water as part of the "reshaping" process. So shaping water into an ice wall for cover is a no go]
So elemental attunement is always compared to Prestidigitation but when I look at it there are a lot of advantages for the monk over the wizard.
Elemental Attunement
You can use your action to briefly control elemental forces within 30 feet of you, causing one of the following effects of your choice:
Also means it should work in anti-magic zones.( anti-magic is up for debate and may be wrong or it may be an exception. Check with your dm)Basically, Any dm that lets you use prestidigitation well, will also let you use the monk version to greater effect. This, Along with some other posts from Fateless, have me starting to re- think 4 elements monk.
Fateless's coments can be found here( read just fateless's post and you'll save some time(the whole thread is also there). Although, its still novella length.)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/monk/105008-monk-way-of-the-four-elements
I’m a little new to deep looks at monks, but I never saw the 4 elements monk as any kind of weak, or underpowered. The opposite, actually.
This ability, specifically, is really amazing. You pretty much listed a bunch of good stuff already, and, wow, a couple I hadn’t thought of!
Yeah, it's a pretty good ability that doesn't get enough recognition.
I do need to contradict you on one point; all elemental disciplines are considered magical so it doesn't work in an anti-magic field. The other benefits you've listed still apply though.
Not a hill I am willing to die on. I would never argue that point with a dm that disagreed and you may be right but I don't see it.
I still say it passes the is it magical test presented in sage advice:
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
so the last question is a maybe. I see it going both ways.
This is the Phrase, IMO, that is important besides general ki comments about magic
Disciple of the Elements
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. A discipline requires you to spend ki points each time you use it.......
There is a slight weirdness in that it says it lets you learn magical disciplines. It does not say that all the disciplines are magical. It is also an exception to the ki spending(or maybe you just spend 0 ki?) I don't know it feels just like when dragons are called magical creatures but their breath isn't.
You are probably right and I will adjust my post according.
At the very least, I have seen comments from some of the top youtubers make statements similar to " you get a worse version of Prestidigitation" or " your stuck with a ""not as good""-prestidigitation"
These seem to be false statements.
That was the part I was referencing. To me it suggests all disciplines are magical but I won't complain if I'm wrong. Other than the antimagic field it doesn't have too much impact that I can think of.
A lot of players are focused on optimising their build for combat and they overlook the benefits of features like Elemental Affinity that can really help the party outside of combat, and with some creative thought can help during a fight too. I hope that people read this and give it a fair chance.
I think those are very good points I don't wanna hijack your thread but now I'm wondering how a DM would respond (if they said that this is magical) to the question of how most of the other Monkabilities (such as the damage they do with their punches or their increasing AC or other stuff) would be affected in an anti-magic field (that is if the DM is trying to maintain logical consistency)?
I would like to point out : dispelling, special cases(Planar zones, "NPC rituals", Faerzress) and anti-magic fields are all things in the game but not wide spread. I like the idea that monks "usually" beat these restrictions intentionally.
Well right now the best we have is the sage advice checklist. ki is kind of referred to magical but only in the "flavor portion" of the monk section but it is referred to as "mystical" in the "ki ability description.
I would say talk it over your dm and see if its a concept that adds interesting elements for the story your group wants to play. Personally I think its a good thing to add just to get people to try new classes and avoid the whole idea of superior adventuring classes.
There is at least one wotc official adventure book that has a special area of restricted spellcasting. It turned a boring, easy combat into a normal difficulty one. it was cool to see the warlock and cleric and wizard start to think of clever solutions and pass around weapons.(or figure out the rules) the rogue Had a chance to shine even though he normally was a melee one(so having a harder time standing out in game). I think all my PCs except the warlock thought it was fun. the warlock was kind of traumatized and pouty because he sold his crossbow and went from "untouchable" to "feeling useless" real quick. eventually he figured it out. post fight he got a new weapon and moved on better informed of the dangers of adventuring and a little more respect for martial options.
Ki is not magical per the test set in Sage Advice. The only suggestion of it being magical comes from the introduction to the class which is just flavour. There is nothing in the class feature itself that calls Ki magical. Some subclass features that use Ki are magical, but that only applies to those particular features.
Also bear in mind that just because a class feature is magical doesn't make it a spell, so dispel magic and other things that affect spellcasting will not apply. Antimagic is the main problem because it suppresses both spells and magical effects.
Many see 4E Monk as the worst monk subclass. Especially due to how fast you can burn through Ki using the various disciplines (which are your subclass features, you get no others). See the thread the OP shared.
And I think it doesn’t get enough recognition because you gain so few disciplines that many swap it out at the first possibility.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yeah. At the end of the day, the elemental disciplines you choose ARE your subclass abilities of Way of the Four Elements Monk (which is part of the reason I dont like 4EM as it currently stands). So choosing to hold onto Elemental Attunement instead of trading it out means sacrificing the possibility of casting Fly or Stoneskin and so on and so forth.
While the OP does outline some interesting applications that set it apart, the uses for Elemental Attunement are situational, depend on DM interpretation in some cases, and will generally be more useful for RP than anything else. Thats not to say its not worth anything, just that it will probably be used less frequently than the other disciplines in a game unless that game is heavily RP based
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But some of the most common complaints about monk Are ki expenditure. By keeping It, you have a zero cost ability that is always useful and on theme for the subclass. I believe trying to take all the cool sounding stuff too early is a huge trap. Another group conversation lead to the idea that basically keeping elemental disciplines allows for 1 of each element up till 11 creating a good balance of theme and utility (assuming you tailor to your role). Thanks to that other group.
Plus Moving fire can be battle helpful for field control. Having ceramic daggers/darts anytime means you never "have" to carry other weapons. What about climbing. always having options for rock climbing is huge. Just modify the face for hand holds over and over. You don't need it but the party will thank you. (DM dependent point: there may even be a weirdness to the size rules allowing a cubic foot of water to be stretched thin enough to use as a long rope. for any climbing)
even with a strict dm, I I would be able to use it every day as a PC to make things just a little bit easier.
1) While I agree that it is nice to have an ability that costs no ki, I disagree that it is "always useful" it is situational imo. Most of the examples you have come up with either wont come up in a given campaign, or will likely come up infrequently. In either case, its unlikely Elemental Attunement will be the best tool at the party's disposal for solving such a problem.
2) Moving fire relies on the fire already being present, so this aspect of using it relies on you using another ED or tag teaming with a party member.
3) Monks are already good at not needing to carry weapons, their body is a weapon. Also I am not sure producing weapons (especially ceramic ones) works RAW for this ability. It says that it takes a "crude" shape, so getting a sharp edge or the correct weight distribution for a thrown weapon could be too much detail depending on DM interpretation.
4) What about climbing? The benefit you list only works if the monk is climbing a rock cliff, but not for trees, buildings, or anything else. Plus, at 9th level, monks can just run up walls, so (as you already said) the monk itself doesnt need it.
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There are two clear winners for elemental attunement, and they're both in the final bullet:
That means a monk can't be stopped by stone or ice, and can tell liquid water to maintain a shape and act like a solid, which means portable cover. This is easily as good as Shape Water - you lose some abilities, like cracking things open by ordering liquid water to turn to ice, but the ability to simply tell a stone wall to get out of your way is incredible. Since the ability does this and more, it's absolutely in the set of S tier cantrips, like Shape Water and Minor Illusion (which it also has some overlap with in how you can use it). I think it's ludicrous to call it Prestidigitation but worse.
Its a decent ability for sure...I do not think its crazy good by any means but its certainly not bad either.
Overall its worth it to have it more often than not simply because it gives you something to do outside of combat and adds a lot of thematic flavor to the subclass.
However, its attached to what I believe is one of the worst (not the worst that is sun soul IMO) monk subclasses. Also I think the monk specific stuff (Unbroken Fist, Fire Fang, etc...) are more fun for me personally so I would likely go to that instead myself.
Also some generous interpretations for earth molding....I as a DM would personally NOT allow it to function as a mold stone spell as I believe its intent is to be purely flavor and not a mechanical advantage....but I might be in the minority there.
Does "earth" include solid stone as well?
The reason I ask, is because the cantrip Mold Earth is only capable of moving "loose earth." It does have effects which affect stone, but none that involve moving or changing its shape. To do what you are saying with solid stone, you would usually need a spell like Stone Shape. I find it unlikely that having a monk that can tunnel through stone at 3rd level when Stone Shape is a 4th level spell is RAI for the ability.
Theres alot of room for DM interpretation for Elemental Attunement, but if you are arguing that a cantrip-like ability can be as powerful as 4th level spells, I feel most DMs will not rule in your favor.
Edit: Also, where are you getting that Elemental Attunement means a monk can't be stopped by ice? Reading the description, their reshaping ability only applies to water or mist, not ice specifically. You could argue that the warming ability allows the ice to be melted into water, but it the ability does not outline how significant the chilling/warming is. Whether this would be sufficient for melting ice (in an environment that may be below freezing temperatures) is definitely not clear cut.
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I feel that the best interpretation should be that which best balances the class against other classes.
Since this subclasses is amongst the weaker subclasses, an interpretation that makes the ability more powerful thanacantrip doesn'tbother me
Where do you get your interpretation that ice isn'twater?
Effects like the ones listed in this ability, and other so called ribbon abilities and cantrips can (and do with me as your DM) and should play into social encounters. Deception, slight of hand, performance, stealth, and intimidation can all benefit from effects like these. Many people say that travel and exploration aren’t group activities (so very wrong, but off topic for this thread) and the same for social encounters too. Just like a good real-life magician, broadway production, or high production music concert, effects like these impress, distract, scare, and otherwise effect the attention and mood of others. They can be used much of the time in any game.
And, if you are at a table that is just worried about battles and dealing a bunch of damage to a BBEG with overly and unnecessarily hyper optimized characters, just swap this out at level 6. Easy peazy.
When a spell or other effect can turn water into ice or shape ice, it explicitly says so.
[Edit. I may be wrong in this point. I could have sworn a spell in 5e explicitly stated that it allowed the creation and shaping of ice, but I cannot seem to find it. The closest thing I can find is that Shape Water allows you to freeze water for 1 hour. That being said, there is a difference between Water and Ice, as they are different forms of matter. Elemental Attunement states two forms of water it can interact with (water and mist) but it does not state it can interact with ice or act to frezze/unfreeze water as part of the "reshaping" process. So shaping water into an ice wall for cover is a no go]
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