I would still argue that "blocking ability" is better reflected by Constitution than by Strength. Con reflects how much punishment you can take whereas Str reflects how much punishment you can dish out.
Actually I would say Constitution represents more just shrugging off the attacks (hit but not bad enough to register), whereas Dexterity is not being hit at all, so Strength could be somewhere in between (blocked a hit in a way that worst might hurt, but does no meaningful damage).
Put another way; when someone punches you, the Barbarian just stands there and laughs as you punch them in their iron abs, the dexterity Monk (Rogue etc.) isn't there to be hit in the first place, and the strength Monk is swatting your attack aside or taking it on a block with arms, counterattack etc.
Could you not make the same argument for Barbarians then, that they should be able to block attacks thanks to their super human strength and add it into their unarmored defense as well? If anything, if Strength plays into any character's defensive ability then the Barbarian would be better off standing still and comboing between blocks and shrugging off hits than trying to dodge in the first place (i.e, their AC = 10+Str+Con rather than 10+Dex+Con).
You can make flavor and theme work pretty easily whichever way you want, but mechanically there isnt a precedent to use Str for AC calculations in 5e. The only way Str plays a role in defense so far is determining if you can effectively wear heavy armor or not.
In the end, Im not necessarily opposed to changing the precedent and giving the option for monk to use Str for AC, but with respect to duh7's suggestion, I still maintain that Str+Dex+Wis is a no go. It should either be Dex + Wis, Str+Wis, Dex + Con, or Str + Con for unarmored defense, but never a sum of more than two modifiers. I also do not think Str+Dex should be an option, since you will only ever be using one of them as your primary attack modifier so investing heavily in both for the sake of AC seems like a bad design choice
I dont see why it shuld. Monk was trained for things like that and barbarian not so he is taking everything on his big muscular face.
Ye i know what u mean but that why i think maxing STR+DEX+Wis (when still he need Con) when u only use Dex or STR is a good option for player it will not give him bonus to dmg and investing in stat only to have biger AC and nothing more is a player problem. Option is but if u use it if it is not optimal? OFC minmaxers will pick a shiiit items like bracles of ogre power or giants strenght belts to get bonuses to that.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I do not think ANY class in the game needs to be getting 3 ability modifiers added to their AC. Temporary bonuses (like the Bladesinger getting to add Int during their bladesong)? Sure! But not at all times.
Let me put forth an alternative. We change the monk's Unarmored Defense to be 10+Con+Str/Dex (your choice). This should cover any variation you could put on physically blocking, deflecting, or dodging an attack. Then we give the monk a new feature called something like, idk, "Ki Shield" where you can spend X number of ki to add your Wisdom modifier to your AC for 1 minute. This gives the monk a route to benefit from 3 ability scores contributing to its AC at once and does not rely on a monk having both a good dex and str, and still encourages the monk to have a good Wisdom score but is a temporary boost. As long as your Wisdom is at least a 14, it is akin to the monk having a shield floating around their body for 1 minute. You could even let the ability level up later on to give them damage resistances while it is active or something.
Either that...or just let monks use shields. If you can just have a +2 AC from holding a shield, you really dont need the bonus from a third ability score (under the assumption it would likely only be a +1 or +2 anyway). This gives them an easy to acquire bonus to their AC without asking them to invest in yet another ability score to do it.
Could you not make the same argument for Barbarians then, that they should be able to block attacks thanks to their super human strength and add it into their unarmored defense as well? If anything, if Strength plays into any character's defensive ability then the Barbarian would be better off standing still and comboing between blocks and shrugging off hits than trying to dodge in the first place (i.e, their AC = 10+Str+Con rather than 10+Dex+Con).
That depends whether you consider a Strength Barbarian and Strength Monk to represent the same thing; Barbarians don't exactly scream finesse (though they might scream "FINESSE!" while shattering a would-be assassin's skull through a table 😂). Whether a martial art focuses around dodging strikes versus blocking them/turning them away, these are still martial arts, so I can see an argument for the flexibility on Monk but not Barbarian.
There's also arguably less need for the flexibility on the Barbarian mechanically in the first place; a Barbarian doesn't really want their AC to be too high, otherwise it will discourage enemies from attacking them (making them pointless as tanks), you want the AC at a point where an enemy will consider attacking normally, and can't resist when you're using Reckless Attack, because even though you'll end up taking hits, a Barbarian has the baseline HP plus damage resistance to take a tonne of punishment.
That's not how Monks work though; we need our baseline AC to make us reasonably hard to hit normally, and a lot harder to hit when we use Patient Defence, as Monks can't take as much damage as a Barbarian can. Because of this a Strength Monk isn't viable at all, as we have no alternative options; even if we gain heavy armour proficiency we can't use it and still be Monks, so there's no compensating for low unarmored AC, and with lower than normal Monk AC you're just a sitting target with not enough HP to take it.
Besides, even if you never go above +2 DEX, a Barbarian with +5 CON still hits 17 unarmored AC, and with the level 20 capstone can have 19 AC (+2 DEX, +7 CON), if you gave them STR as an option instead of DEX they'd have have equal AC to a Monk at least for every level, and could finish with 24 (+7 STR and CON). But this is just getting off-topic; the issue is not what the Barbarian should get (as it's arguably already a very solid class, it just needs some later features replaced or improved to have less dead levels), this is about making Strength Monk builds viable as there's really no reason they shouldn't be when Martial Arts seems like it's supposed to encourage choice.
Im okay with the idea of letting monks use Str instead of Dex for their AC calculation. Its unusual, but so is using Wisdom I suppose. What I do not agree with is the original comment that wanted to give the monk a combination of 3 ability scores to their AC.
I am okay with giving monks access to shields or some other AC boosting mechanic, but I do not want an AC calculation that depends on three scores. This not only makes the build more MAD than it already was, but also opens up an obvious exploit for minmaxing that isnt there for the traditional calculation.
Another idea is that if you think shields wont work for monk (or that they need more AC on top of that), then they could get a feature that lets them cast Shield of Faith on themselves, maybe reflavored as using their concentration to maintain a ki barrier or something.
The monk is not a fighter and should not be treated as such. The monk is a combatant who uses inner power or spiritual power to fight. His connection to ki energy is what characterizes him. The goal of a monk is self-perfection, the pursuit of enlightenment and to achieve it they train their body and their spirit.
The Magic of Ki
Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse—specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies’ physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents. Using this energy, monks channel uncanny speed and strength into their unarmed strikes. As they gain experience, their martial training and their mastery of ki gives them more power over their bodies and the bodies of their foes.
Training and Asceticism
Small walled cloisters dot the landscapes of the worlds of D&D, tiny refuges from the flow of ordinary life, where time seems to stand still. The monks who live there seek personal perfection through contemplation and rigorous training. Many entered the monastery as children, sent to live there when their parents died, when food couldn’t be found to support them, or in return for some kindness that the monks had performed for their families.
Some monks live entirely apart from the surrounding population, secluded from anything that might impede their spiritual progress. Others are sworn to isolation, emerging only to serve as spies or assassins at the command of their leader, a noble patron, or some other mortal or divine power.
The majority of monks don’t shun their neighbors, making frequent visits to nearby towns or villages and exchanging their service for food and other goods. As versatile warriors, monks often end up protecting their neighbors from monsters or tyrants.
For a monk, becoming an adventurer means leaving a structured, communal lifestyle to become a wanderer. This can be a harsh transition, and monks don’t undertake it lightly. Those who leave their cloisters take their work seriously, approaching their adventures as personal tests of their physical and spiritual growth. As a rule, monks care little for material wealth and are driven by a desire to accomplish a greater mission than merely slaying monsters and plundering their treasure.
Buddhism and Taoism are very similar in this. Buddhism is about becoming a Buddha, that is, improving oneself and achieving enlightenment to the point of elevating oneself to the divine level. After all, Buddha was mortal before he became a god. In Buddhism you don't worship buddha per se but the teachings of buddha to become buddha. After all, Shaoling monks are Buddhists and train the body to the extreme to achieve enlightenment during their meditation. Buddhism was born in India where it is the origin of all Asian martial arts namely "kalaripayattu". These have spread with the Buddhist philosophy and have arrived in Japan where they are identified as the arts of kempo that led to the cration of karate as jujitzu. In Taoism from the word TAO or also called DAO which means "way". Essence of the doctrine is the tao, understanding of the universal principle of all things, indeterminate entity that represents the continuous change of nature and its alternation between positive and negative phases, which man must not try to change, but to which he must adapt. For those who don't know, the Tao is the basis of Tai-chi.
When I read the dnd monk's presentation I see that the influence of the Buddhism and Taoism philosophies is strong. You will probably tell me, the monk of dnd is not a Buddhist monk or a Taoist scholar. Ok, nothing to say, you are right. After all dnd is a fantasy world. With all this I just want to point out how much the monk is linked to the spiritual concept.
If you want to create or correct the monk, think also about his role in the group, how would a monk behave in determiante situations, what skills does he have and why did he develop these skills?What is the ki power? Why does ki have the power to heal, etc.? What I mean is not to limit yourself to pure game mechanics.
Im okay with the idea of letting monks use Str instead of Dex for their AC calculation. Its unusual, but so is using Wisdom I suppose. What I do not agree with is the original comment that wanted to give the monk a combination of 3 ability scores to their AC.
Sure, I disagreed with the three combined already, it'd be way too strong; I was just replying to your comments about Constitution being used instead of Strength.
I am okay with giving monks access to shields or some other AC boosting mechanic
I'm not opposed to shields as such as I think it could be interesting, I proposed that myself a few pages back iirc, though I was thinking as an alternative to the WIS + DEX/STR Unarmored Defence option (i.e- STR based Monks would still be limited to WIS + DEX for their basic AC, but could layer a shield onto it), the main issue there is theming and wording, i.e- allowing a shield for Martials Arts only if you are using Strength based attacks, might be a bit clunky.
I don't think Monks in general need shields (i.e- for DEX builds as well) though, as our AC does not need to be higher; it's already competitive so long as the DM gives the same magical item availability (i.e- Monk can get Bracers of Defense or such if allies get magic armour, counterbalanced by a decent non-attunement weapon if allies get attunement weapons, since magic armour doesn't require attunement but bracers of defence do).
Another idea is that if you think shields wont work for monk (or that they need more AC on top of that), then they could get a feature that lets them cast Shield of Faith on themselves, maybe reflavored as using their concentration to maintain a ki barrier or something.
We can already get that easily with a single level dip in Cleric, or Magic Initiate (Cleric), though in the latter case it's only single use. I'm a fan of Monk builds using a one or two level dip in War Domain as we get a fair bit out of it. I don't think we really need it as part of the core class though, because why would you ever not use it (other than having no choice)? Plus we already have Patient Defence.
This is what Monk AC needs to be taken in the context of; we have a competitive shieldless AC, with the ability to effectively Shield ourselves (as disadvantage to hit is equivalent to -5 to hit, or +5 AC), albeit preemptively as a bonus action rather than a reaction, so our defence is somewhere in the middle of that (base AC and boosted Patient Defence effective AC). And that's without factoring in cover use, because that's really hard to account for, but we do have the speed and other options to make use of it.
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How is he even evading that question? Just because you don't like what he has to say about it doesn't mean he's evading it lol
Also a bonus attack that includes +modifier IS great.
Not answering directly. That, to me, is evasion. I've answered all of Haravvik's points about Monk survivability at low levels and they refuse to deal with my question directly.
A bonus attack with modifier is okay. The attack is only 1d4 until mid-tier. It's not the worst, but compared to Rogue with Sneak Attack and advantage, it's maybe 1 point more damage or so. Like I said, it doesn't matter much if you get a bonus action attack if you're unconscious. At lower tier there are too many things competing for the few Ki you have for you to both stay alive AND do regular action damage + bonus action damage. Main exception to this is for subclasses (like Kensei) or species-based builds that get you better AC from the start (like Tortle). IOW, unless you have a dedicated (and effective) tank in your party to soak most of the hits, the Monk is overall ineffective at low levels due to a combination of low hit points, low Ki, and lack of Rogue-like defenses, like a free BA disengage.
In my opinion, the way you use the monk in the game is the same as they use for the Barbarian. You use your speed to be the first to confront the enemy and stay in the middle of the battle. Maybe you should make a hill dwarf with the talent "Tough" and the subclass "long death" and 2 levels from "Cleric: Twilight Domain". You could take the "Durable" talent which is a perfect match for "Twilight Sanctuary". After all these steps you would be qualified to play a monk as if he were a barbarian. But at the end of the day, a monk will never be a Barbarian, or a Fighter, or a Ranger, or even a Rogue.
From my point of view the monk is designed as a combatant to attack and run away, stun and let the barbarian or rogue finish the job. The monk doesn't excel at hit points or even attack damage, but he excels at blitz attacks that support the group and to stay alive he has to run and hide when it's the enemy's turn.
Dont make him a stun bot i still remember how shoveling monk was in earlier Edition and how weak that bulid was. Chenging shoveling on stun is ever worst. Stunning stricke is weaker every lvl and depends how much mod enemy have to con. He is martial artistnot a rogue. His Job is to get to special enemy (caster/archer) and kill/ocupy him untill team dont finish with mobs.
That was just an explanation of how the role of the monk is designed now and not how I want it to be. It's just that I also wanted to point out that there are a lot of people who don't know how to play and use the monk as if he were a fighter or even a barbarian. Afterwards it's normal that they die and think that the monk lacks defense, lacks hit points, lacks etc.
Martial Arts: same as PHB with the following change and addition:
The second benefit now reads:
You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, d8 at 5 level, d10 at 11 level, d12 at 17
New fourth benefit to Martial Arts:
When you take the Attack action while wielding a monk weapon that has the light property in one hand, you can use your Martial Arts bonus action attack to make an attack with a different light monk weapon you’re holding in the other hand, instead of an unarmed strike.
I would like idea to multiply d4 in monks atacks so at lvl 5 that will be 2d4 at 11lvl 3d4 and at 17lvl 4d4.
Beware 4d4 does a minimum of 4 and a maximum of 16 damage. Following your reasoning would be something like this.
1-4th level (1d4 )
5-8th level (1d6)
9-12th level (2d4)
13-16th level (1d10)
17-20th level (3d4)
If it were up to me it would be the same as before, maybe 1d12 for those in strength and 3d4 for those in base dexterity.
But going by classic, it would be 1d4-1d6-1d8-1d10-1d12 (to let even half-orc monks have fun)
Dk why u think i didnt think about that?
4d4x4 +mod dmg is not that much at lvl he get it other martials do similiar dmg.
Why orcs or strenght monks shuld not have fun at late lvls? Dont know why u put d10 betwain 2d4 and 3d4. 4d4 is to much?
If monk can chenged weapon dmg die for martial art die adding dmg compensate using ki.
And that works better with some feats. If chenge some more feats to work in melee atack not only with weapon monk be realy fun assasin.
Savage Attacks: When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon Attack, you can roll one of the weapon’s damage dice one additional time and add it to the extra damage of the critical hit.
I would still argue that "blocking ability" is better reflected by Constitution than by Strength. Con reflects how much punishment you can take whereas Str reflects how much punishment you can dish out.
Actually I would say Constitution represents more just shrugging off the attacks (hit but not bad enough to register), whereas Dexterity is not being hit at all, so Strength could be somewhere in between (blocked a hit in a way that worst might hurt, but does no meaningful damage).
Put another way; when someone punches you, the Barbarian just stands there and laughs as you punch them in their iron abs, the dexterity Monk (Rogue etc.) isn't there to be hit in the first place, and the strength Monk is swatting your attack aside or taking it on a block with arms, counterattack etc.
Could you not make the same argument for Barbarians then, that they should be able to block attacks thanks to their super human strength and add it into their unarmored defense as well? If anything, if Strength plays into any character's defensive ability then the Barbarian would be better off standing still and comboing between blocks and shrugging off hits than trying to dodge in the first place (i.e, their AC = 10+Str+Con rather than 10+Dex+Con).
You can make flavor and theme work pretty easily whichever way you want, but mechanically there isnt a precedent to use Str for AC calculations in 5e. The only way Str plays a role in defense so far is determining if you can effectively wear heavy armor or not.
In the end, Im not necessarily opposed to changing the precedent and giving the option for monk to use Str for AC, but with respect to duh7's suggestion, I still maintain that Str+Dex+Wis is a no go. It should either be Dex + Wis, Str+Wis, Dex + Con, or Str + Con for unarmored defense, but never a sum of more than two modifiers. I also do not think Str+Dex should be an option, since you will only ever be using one of them as your primary attack modifier so investing heavily in both for the sake of AC seems like a bad design choice
I dont see why it shuld. Monk was trained for things like that and barbarian not so he is taking everything on his big muscular face.
Ye i know what u mean but that why i think maxing STR+DEX+Wis (when still he need Con) when u only use Dex or STR is a good option for player it will not give him bonus to dmg and investing in stat only to have biger AC and nothing more is a player problem. Option is but if u use it if it is not optimal? OFC minmaxers will pick a shiiit items like bracles of ogre power or giants strenght belts to get bonuses to that.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I do not think ANY class in the game needs to be getting 3 ability modifiers added to their AC. Temporary bonuses (like the Bladesinger getting to add Int during their bladesong)? Sure! But not at all times.
Let me put forth an alternative. We change the monk's Unarmored Defense to be 10+Con+Str/Dex (your choice). This should cover any variation you could put on physically blocking, deflecting, or dodging an attack. Then we give the monk a new feature called something like, idk, "Ki Shield" where you can spend X number of ki to add your Wisdom modifier to your AC for 1 minute. This gives the monk a route to benefit from 3 ability scores contributing to its AC at once and does not rely on a monk having both a good dex and str, and still encourages the monk to have a good Wisdom score but is a temporary boost. As long as your Wisdom is at least a 14, it is akin to the monk having a shield floating around their body for 1 minute. You could even let the ability level up later on to give them damage resistances while it is active or something.
Either that...or just let monks use shields. If you can just have a +2 AC from holding a shield, you really dont need the bonus from a third ability score (under the assumption it would likely only be a +1 or +2 anyway). This gives them an easy to acquire bonus to their AC without asking them to invest in yet another ability score to do it.
The “Ki Shield” idea is nice but I would probably just leave AC calculations as 10+WIS+DEX, add 10+WIS+STR as an alternative option and then have the Ki shield add CON bonus to AC. You still need WIS for Ki save DC’s unless you change those as well.
If we want a way to boost the AC, I personally like the idea of adding half your Proficiency Bonus (rounded down)
Doesn't break the game at early levels since it's only a +1, but a tier 4 monk with capped Dex and Wis would have a respectable 23 without Bracers of Defense or other tricks.
I like the flavor too, it makes the monk look "proficient with not getting hit" and keeps in line with the "naked" aesthetic and replaces a shield adequately.
As for allowing Str to replace Dex in Unarmored Defense I'm all for it, I don't think there's anything wrong with that
If we will use as alternativ Str or Dex explain me why anybody shuld pick Str over Dex? Dex is most ussfull stat and save. I know that evasion is only on dex.
That why i think 3th stat for dmg and AC can be ok. Player will decide if he need all 3 maxed( when still need con)
Its not making bulid more MAD like is now. Giving better dmg die to martial art when u can choise if u want Max stats or pick a feat. The problem is that monk is to much depending on stats so give nim another one to be sure he will not Max everything with his Asi and stat thinking out of The box.
Sry if that dont make any sense.
What happens if the monk actually makes Strength their dump stat? For example, lets say the monk has a 16 in Dex, 14 in Wisdom, and then makes Str their dump stat so lets say an 8 from the standard array.
With the traditional AC calculation, their starting AC = 10+3 (Dex)+2 (Wis) = 15
With your suggested method, their AC = 10+3(Dex)+2 (Wis) -1 (Str) = 14 which is worse than just excluding strength from the calculation in the first place. To offset this detriment, the monk now has to spend one of their few ASIs in order to bump their Str score.
By adding Strength into the calculation, you guarantee that a play MUST have at least a score of 10 allocated to Str or else it will act to pull DOWN their AC. In that way, the monk cannot ever really use Str as a dump stat and must put at least a little effort into increasing it if they want to achieve a noticeable bonus to their AC.
If you are going to make their AC score depend on your Strength ability IN ADDITION TO Dex and Wis, then your character is dependent on more abilities and is more MAD, by definition.
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Ok, I’m not going to go back and read 16 pages to see if this was covered earlier - just going to throw it out there. Adding another stat to max for any class, especially monk, is not good and shouldn’t be done. For monks you have to make a choice to go strength or Dex - this to a large extent corresponds with the decision to go with hard styles (strength based power styles like Shotokan karate) or soft styles (Dex based redirection styles like Akido) . I can see allowing (as a home brew rule or 6e change) having that choice also set the stat used for unarmed defense so if you chose strength based it becomes str+wis and Dex becomes a lesser stat while if you chose Dex it stays as Dex+wis and str is a lesser stat. Yes, I’m aware that there are mixed schools like Goju but even there the individual is generally slightly better with either Dex or strength and would make their choice. Keep in mind that that calls for basically 4 great stats (S, D, C, W) and you typically only get that with rolling for stats (& lucky rolls) not from point buy or standard array. Done this way it keeps the monk almost reasonable in terms of stats they need to raise/max. ( I don’t see how your going to lower the number to 2 stats from 3 but this at least keeps it 3 whether you are a strength or Dex based monk)
And why u think u need to Max it? This game is about maxing stats? No
Increasing stats is part of the game, but maxing out your stats is not the primary goal. If anything, most people prefer if they only need to max out one or two stats and can then be freed to use their ASIs at future levels to customize their character with feats.
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Ok, I’m not going to go back and read 16 pages to see if this was covered earlier - just going to throw it out there. Adding another stat to max for any class, especially monk, is not good and shouldn’t be done. For monks you have to make a choice to go strength or Dex - this to a large extent corresponds with the decision to go with hard styles (strength based power styles like Shotokan karate) or soft styles (Dex based redirection styles like Akido) . I can see allowing (as a home brew rule or 6e change) having that choice also set the stat used for unarmed defense so if you chose strength based it becomes str+wis and Dex becomes a lesser stat while if you chose Dex it stays as Dex+wis and str is a lesser stat. Yes, I’m aware that there are mixed schools like Goju but even there the individual is generally slightly better with either Dex or strength and would make their choice. Keep in mind that that calls for basically 4 great stats (S, D, C, W) and you typically only get that with rolling for stats (& lucky rolls) not from point buy or standard array. Done this way it keeps the monk almost reasonable in terms of stats they need to raise/max. ( I don’t see how your going to lower the number to 2 stats from 3 but this at least keeps it 3 whether you are a strength or Dex based monk)
When I think of defense in martial arts, using my (very) limited experience with it, I think of it primarily in these ways
1. Blocking - In other words, just putting your guard up to stop an attack from hitting a more sensitive part of your body. I would associate this with enduring hits and would probably associate it with Constitution, although I could see the argument for Strength
2. Dodging - Plain and simple, just not being where the attack lands. This one is Dexterity but if you are looking at it from the end of reading opponent's movement or even supernatural premonition, then Wisdom makes sense as well
3. Deflecting - Knocking your opponent's hand/weapon/whatever slightly off course so you dont take the full brunt of the hit. This one would probably be primarily Dexterity, but again I could see an argument for Strength.
In this way, if you wanted to change a monk's unarmored defense to reflect different styles or approaches, you could just say something like:
Your AC is equal to 10 plus the sum of any two of the following ability scores, chosen when you get this feature: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, or Wisdom. You cannot use the same ability score for this calculation more than once.
Blocking and redirecting are actually the same thing - making the foe’s attack miss. The primary difference between hard and soft styles is that in hard styles you are effectively attacking the attack trying to inflict some damage as you deflect the attack. In soft styles there is no attack but rather a dodge and deflection. Hard styles have less movement and more counter strikes while soft styles do more dodging and forcing the foe to damage themselves by running into stuff. Either way your wording works well for this.
I said it in my previous post, but yeah I think the ability to choose which physical attribute you specialize in at the beginning would be such an incredibly cool and unique core flavor for Monk. Like said, Strength for harder styles, Dexterity for softer styles, and Constitution for styles that are all about building up durability. Wisdom would still be required, but it makes thematic sense since you're applying knowledge to your physical prowess of choice in order to get the most control out of it.
Like, everything else suggested is cool but the above is the thing I'd love the most. My biggest complaint about Monk right now is no matter what you do it feels so pigeon-holed into essentially a speed class. Even subclasses, official or not, that try to take them in other directions...tankier, or strength based...it feels like you're trying to twist that same speed based class towards something it wasn't built to be at its core. There's so many wonderful martial arts archetypes that don't fit the game-archtypical monastic monk who's fast and hits a lot, grapplers, power hitters, iron bodied tanky martial artists to name a few. It'd be so wonderful to be able to explore all those avenues more freely.
Again, I’m not reading thru all 16 pages to see if this was raised earlier - if it was let me know where and go there to read that section. a different concern I would love to see addressed in a 6e monk are the monk/martial arts weapons. There are a huge range of these and while many can be treated as reskinned common weapons (nunchaku =flail, katana=long sword, etc) many have no western analog and the section in a PHB should probably have 3 listings (simple, martial, monk). The monk weapons would then include things that can’t be reskinned or that while they can sort of the actual martial arts weapon is used very differently from the western weapon or is used in ways no (common) western weapon is used. Nunchaku - yes it can be reskinned as a flail but the western flail was a strictly one handed weapon that was never moved from right to left as nunchaku are regularly . The flail also often had spikes or ridges in one of the sections making such transfers impossible without damage to yourself. Sai- while the basic sai long section is clearly a piercing weapon allowing it to be reskinned as a short sword, the extended blade guards were designing Ed for disarming folks of swords or other weapons and should have that ability defined into them in some way. manriki/Kusari-Gama - these combo weapons can’t really be reskinned from anything unless you combine multiple weapons. The straight manriki would combine the whip with 2 flails while the Kusari would combine the whip, flail and sickle. I suspect that the difficulties there are what made them not do it in 5e.
Summing up what we have previously said: (with some of my modifications - in the spoiler is the original)
Added one skill proficiency as well as adding Medicine and Nature as an option to choose from.
Two methods of calculating AC to allow STR builds
Martial Arts die damage increase 1d4 to 1d12.
Martial Arts, allow the monk use any simple weapons as monk weapon (even those at a range like darts)
Martial Arts, allow the monk to push a hit enemy once per turn (like the crusher feat)
Martial Arts, allow the monk to use a quarterstaff, or a spear with the reach property.
Martial Arts, allow the monk the ability to wield two light monk weapons so you can use your martial arts bonus action attack to attack with the second light monk weapon instead of an unarmed strike. Allows dual wielding but you get the damage modifier without needing the fighting style.
To the Ki feature, modify it so that there is a choice, as if it were Eldritch Invocations.
To the Ki feature, the monk can perform a mantra that allows to recover 1d4 + proficiency bonus. Usable only a n° equal to the wisdom modifier each long rest.
To the Ki feature, Flurry of Blows gets the Way of the Open Hand's Open Hand Technique ability. And rolling a critical hit you regain a Ki point so basically that FoB was free that turn. Which also helps with the number of Ki issue.
To the Ki feature, patient defense as a reaction.
Gain an ASI at level 10
Deflect missiles, free from using 1 ki power for counterattack.
Stunning strike, the monk is limited to one attempt per enemy hit during the monk turn, after 9th level there is no more limit. At 17th level, grant an automatic stun on a crit.
The magic bonuses you receive from your primary weapon can also be used by your unarmed attacks.
Changed Stillness of Mind to Advantage on saves against charmed and frightened, initial on ongoing saves. Simplifies the ability so we don't have to argue if you have to be aware or not that you are under these conditions, or have access to your Action, etc...
Allow the monk to use the Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength or Dextery modifier when making Acrobatics or Athletics checks.
Allow the monk to run through the sky.
Then at 20th level, regain 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier ki when you roll initiative (you don't have to be at zero Ki). And your Flurry of Blows you make four attacks instead of three.
This new Monk is so complicated. The base class is now approaching Warlock numbers of pages.
I like the idea of making AC based on your choice of STR or DEX, representing an identifiable school of fighting, like "Mountain Defense."
I'm sorry if you feel it is so complicated, that wasn't my intention. I did want to add options to the class, yet not too many as to make it overly complicated. And try to fit in the "next evolution" of D&D we are heading toward.
The things I added to the core class are:
Added one skill proficiency as well as adding Medicine as an option to choose from. I can see monasteries teaching anatomy and medicine as part of their training.
Two methods of calculating AC to allow STR builds
Martial Arts die damage increase 1d6 to 1d12.
Also to Martial Arts, the ability to wield two light monk weapons so you can use your martial arts bonus action attack to attack with the second light monk weapon instead of an unarmed strike. Allows dual wielding but you get the damage modifier without needing the fighting style. (Gives options so if you want to play Bruce Lee fighting with two nunchakus, you can). Although now that I think about it, this might create an issue of people dipping 1 level of monk just to get this?
To the Ki feature, you get a once per long rest ability to regain ki by spending a turn focusing on your breathing. People were saying the number of ki points was an issue and this helps with that.
Flurry of Blows gets the Way of the Open Hand's Open Hand Technique ability. And rolling a critical hit you regain a Ki point so basically that FoB was free that turn. Which also helps with the number of Ki issue.
Centered Mind is a new ability to gain part of the Skill Expert feat for 1 minute. Helps with people's concerns about out of combat identity. Tapping into your ki can help you recall information, for a History check, or sharpen your senses to help you locate a trap or secret door (perception check) for example.
Gain an ASI at level 10
Stunning strike is phased in with -2 to attack rolls, ability checks, DEX saves, and no reactions at level 5 and the current stunning strike at level 9. Added in a suggestion from Aanx to grant an automatic stun on a crit at level 17.
Changed Stillness of Mind to Advantage on saves against charmed and frightened, initial on ongoing saves. Simplifies the ability so we don't have to argue if you have to be aware or not that you are under these conditions, or have access to your Action, etc...
Then at 20th level, regain 6 ki when you roll initiative (you don't have to be at zero Ki). And your Flurry of Blows is now free all the time and you make three attacks instead of two.
So that is quite a bit. only a few are completely new, while the others are alterations to existing monk features.
Was there anything in particular that you found complicated? Or was it just the fact that there were this many changes to the PHB monk?
Instead, in this spoiler my personal vision of the new monk. It's not final yet, but I think there are some good points and some improvements. Any proposals?
Class Features
As a monk, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per monk level Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 + your Constitution modifier per monk level after 1st
Proficiencies
Armor: None Weapons: Simple weapons, shortswords Tools: Choose one type of artisan's tools or one musical instrument Saving Throws: Strength, Dexterity Skills: Choose three from Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Medicine, Nature, Religion, and Stealth
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
(a) a shortsword or (b) any simple weapon
(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
10 darts
The Monk
Level
Proficiency Bonus
Martial Arts
Ki Points
Ki technique Know
Unarmored Movement
Features
1st
+2
1d4
–
–
–
Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts
2nd
+2
1d4
2
3
+10 ft.
Ki techniques, Unarmored Movement
3rd
+2
1d4
3
3
+10 ft.
Monastic Tradition,
4th
+2
1d4
4
3
+10 ft.
Slow Fall, Ability Score Improvement,
5th
+3
1d6
5
4
+10 ft.
Extra Attack
6th
+3
1d6
6
4
+15 ft.
Ki-Empowered Strikes, Monastic Tradition feature
7th
+3
1d6
7
4
+15 ft.
Evasion
8th
+3
1d6
8
5
+15 ft.
Ability Score Improvement
9th
+4
1d8
9
5
+15 ft.
Unarmored Movement improvement, Stunning Strike improvement
10th
+4
1d8
10
5
+20 ft.
Body Cultivation, Ability Score Improvement
11th
+4
1d8
11
6
+20 ft.
Monastic Tradition feature
12th
+4
1d8
12
6
+20 ft.
Ability Score Improvement
13th
+5
1d10
13
6
+20 ft.
-
14th
+5
1d10
14
7
+25 ft.
Soul Cultivation
15th
+5
1d10
15
7
+25 ft.
Timeless Body, Flurry of Blow improvement
16th
+5
1d10
16
7
+25 ft.
Ability Score Improvement
17th
+6
1d12
17
7
+25 ft.
Monastic Tradition feature
18th
+6
1d12
18
8
+30 ft.
Empty Body, Unarmored Movement improvement
19th
+6
1d12
19
8
+30 ft.
Ability Score Improvement
20th
+6
1d12
20
8
+30 ft.
Enlightenment, Flury of Blow improvement
Unarmored Defense
Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, you choose a defensive technique for calculating your AC. This choice is part of the school you have chosen and therefore cannot be changed.
Mountain Defense: your AC equals 10 + your Strength modifier + your Wisdom modifier
River Defense: your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords, and any simple weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren't wearing heavy armor or wielding a shield:
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack that deals bludgeoning damage, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space, provided the target is no more than one size larger than you.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die size increase as you gain monk levels, d6 at 5th, d8 at 9th, d10 at 13th and finally 1d12 at 17th
When you use a quarterstaff, or a spear, they gain the reach property.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike or an attack with a monk weapon that has the light property as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, or when you are using two clubs, the second club can be used in your bonus action as if it were a unarmed attack, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
Certain monasteries use specialized forms of the monk weapons. For example, you might use a club that is two lengths of wood connected by a short chain (called a nunchaku) or a sickle with a shorter, straighter blade (called a kama). Whatever name you use for a monk weapon, you can use the game statistics provided for the weapon on the Weapons page.
Ki Techniques
Starting at 2nd level, your training allows you to harness the mystic energy of ki. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of ki points. Your monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Ki Points column of the Monk table.
You can spend these points to fuel various ki features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows and three others of your choice in the list of ki techniques. When you gain certain monk levels, you gain additional Ki techniques of your choice, as shown in the Ki techniques column of the monk table. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.
When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself. You must spend at least 30 minutes of the rest meditating to regain your ki points.
Some of your ki features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature's effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:
Ki save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as part of the same action. The number of extra attacks increases as you gain monk levels, increasing to three at 15th level and four at 20th level.
Reactive Defense. You can spend 1 ki point to use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC for that attack, potentially causing the attack to miss you.
Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash or Dodge action as a bonus action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.
Open Hand martial art (Prerequisite: 3h level): Whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:
It must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
It must make a Strength saving throw. If it fails, you can push it up to 15 feet away from you.
It can’t take reactions until the end of your next turn.
Shadow Arts (Prerequisite: 3h level): Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points to cast Darkness, Darkvision, Pass without Trace, or Silence, without providing material components. Additionally, you gain the Minor Illusion cantrip if you don't already know it.
Mantra (Prerequisite: 3th level): You perform a mantra as an action, that allow you recover a number of ki points equal 1d4 + proficiency bonus. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier, and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
Dedicated Weapon (Prerequisite: 3th level): Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again.
The weapon must be a simple or martial weapon.
You must be proficient with it.
It must lack the heavy and special properties.
Ki Sight (Prerequisite: 3th level): You can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet.
Mask of Many Facesyou (Prerequisite: 3th level):You can cast Disguise Self at will, without expending a spell slot.
Ki-Fueled Attack (Prerequisite: 4th level): You spend 1 ki point or more as part of your action on your turn, you can make one attack with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon as a bonus action before the end of the turn. Additionally, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. Choose only one of the following spells and as an action, you can spend 1 ki points to cast that spell without providing material components. The spells are: thunderwave, burning hands, frost fingers, Earth tremor, inflict wonds and magic missile.
Quickened Healing (Prerequisite: 4th level): As an action, you can spend 2 ki points and roll a Martial Arts die. You regain a number of hit points equal to the number rolled plus your proficiency bonus.
Gift of the Depths (Prerequisite: 4th level): You can breathe underwater, and you gain a swimming speed equal to your walking speed. You can also cast Water Breathing without expending ki power. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest.
Ninja (Prerequisite: 4th level):When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible until you move or take an action or a reaction.
Ki Movement (Prerequisite: 9th level): For 1 minute you can use your ki power to make your position stable even outside your turn, when you use your movement and end your turn you no longer fall because you are in a complicated position.
Deflect Energy (Prerequisite: 9th level): When you take acid, cold, fire, lightning, or force damage, you can use your reaction to deflect it. When you do so, the damage you take is reduced by 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier + your monk level. If you reduce the damage to 0, you can use a ki power to redirect the energy to anyone at the range of 20 - 60 feet, the damage is equal to your reduction.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Prerequisite: 13th level): You learn to touch the ki of other minds so that you understand all spoken languages. Moreover, any creature that can understand a language can understand what you say.
Karmic Sight (Prerequisite: 13th level): You can see the true form of any shapechanger or creature concealed by illusion or transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.
Ki Master (Prerequisite: 13th level): You gain the ability to use your Ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 1 ki points to cast Darkvision, Detect Evil and Good, Tongue, Detect Poison and Disease and Longstrider. Additionally, you learn the guidance and invisible mage hand cantrips if you don't already know it. You cast this cast without any somatic or verbal components and without providing material components. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Unarmored Movement
Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing heavy armor or wielding a shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels, as shown in the Monk table. At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move. At 18th level, you gain the ability to move in the air on your turn without falling during the move.
Monastic Tradition
When you reach 3rd level, you commit yourself to a monastic tradition. Your tradition grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th, 11th, and 17th level.
Deflect Missiles
Starting at 3rd level, you can use your reaction to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level.
If you reduce the damage to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way, you canspend 1 ki point to make a ranged attack with a range of 20/60 using the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction. You make this attack with proficiency, regardless of your weapon proficiencies, and the missile counts as a monk weapon for the attack.
Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Slow Fall
Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.
Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Stunning Strike
Starting at 5th level, you can interfere with the flow of ki in an opponent's body. When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. The stunning Strike is limited to one attempt per enemy hit during your turn. Beginning at 9th level, you are no longer limited in the use of your stunning Strike, and at 17th level every time you make a critical hit the enemy is automatically stunned until the end of your next turn.
Focused Aim (Optional)
Also at 5th level, when you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 ki points to increase your attack roll by 2 for each of these ki points you spend, potentially turning the miss into a hit. <<Is this skill really necessary? In my opinion it is a trap to waste ki power.>>
Ki-Empowered Strikes
Starting at 6th level, your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.The magic bonuses you receive from your primary weapon can also be used by your unarmed attacks. This feature cannot be added to other magic items with similar effects.
Evasion
At 7th level, your instinctive agility lets you dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a blue dragon's lightning breath or a fireball spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Stillness of Mind
Starting at 7th level, you have advantage on saving throws against being charmed or frightened. This applies to initial saves as well as ongoing saving throws. If you become aware that you are charmed or frightened you can use your bonus action to end one of these effects on yourself.
Body Culitvation
At 10th level, your mastery of the ki flowing through you makes you immune to disease and poison. You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength or Dextery modifier when making Acrobatics or Athletics checks.
Soul Cultivation
Beginning at 14th level, your mastery of ki grants you proficiency in all saving throws. Additionally, whenever you make a saving throw or an ability check and fail, you can spend 1 ki point to reroll it and take the second result.
Timeless Body
At 15th level, your ki sustains you so that you suffer none of the frailty of old age, and you can't be aged magically. You can still die of old age, however. The Ki power that you wield causes you to age more slowly. For every 10 years that pass, your body ages only 1 year. You no longer need food or water, but you can still die of old age, however.
Empty Body
Beginning at 18th level, you can use your action to spend 4 ki points to become invisible for 1 minute. During that time, you also have resistance to all damage but force damage. Additionally, you can spend 8 ki points to cast the Astral Projection spell, without needing material components. When you do so, you can't take any other creatures with you.
Enlightenment
At 20th level, when you roll for initiative and have no ki points remaining, you regain 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier ki points. You don't have to be at zero Ki to use this feature.
One note on the weapons allowed/gained at L1 - while I grant the short swords are able to be reskinned as sais as both are piercing weapons the double sword Chinese style that is most commonly seen is the butterfly knives/swords and in DND they would be reskinned scimitars (slashing weapons) all of the other swords I can think of would be reskinned long swords. Even the wakazashi and ninjato would be reskinned scimitars. So maybe instead of short swords the weapon they get should be scimitars?
One note on the weapons allowed/gained at L1 - while I grant the short swords are able to be reskinned as sais as both are piercing weapons the double sword Chinese style that is most commonly seen is the butterfly knives/swords and in DND they would be reskinned scimitars (slashing weapons) all of the other swords I can think of would be reskinned long swords. Even the wakazashi and ninjato would be reskinned scimitars. So maybe instead of short swords the weapon they get should be scimitars?
It is true what you say, although between short sword and scimitar there is only the difference in the type of damage. The double butterfly sword you say is like two big Dagger.
Among the Chinese weapons that most closely resemble the scimitar are Dao swords, but I think most Chinese weapons are swords. So I think it's fair to leave the short sword as the basic weapon. In Japan, the katana works like a scimitar, but as I said, the type of damage changes. Don't forget that there is always Dedicated Weapon. One thing we could do instead is to add in Dedicated Weapon feature the ability to become proficient with a weapon of choice.
Ye. Chenging lvl 20 on something literaly Good. Nobody like to be punish for stick to one class for 20 lvls.
Chenge it on something what barbarian have but with alternativ.
U become a master of ki enhancing ur body u can add +4 to a Max of 24 in 2 stat from The list: Str, Dex, Con, Wis.
Every battle start 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier ki points + Flurry of Blows with four attacks, sounds pretty good to me already. I was more inspired by the fighter than the barbarian.
One note on the weapons allowed/gained at L1 - while I grant the short swords are able to be reskinned as sais as both are piercing weapons the double sword Chinese style that is most commonly seen is the butterfly knives/swords and in DND they would be reskinned scimitars (slashing weapons) all of the other swords I can think of would be reskinned long swords. Even the wakazashi and ninjato would be reskinned scimitars. So maybe instead of short swords the weapon they get should be scimitars?
It is true what you say, although between short sword and scimitar there is only the difference in the type of damage. The double butterfly sword you say is like two big Dagger.
Among the Chinese weapons that most closely resemble the scimitar are Dao swords, but I think most Chinese weapons are swords. So I think it's fair to leave the short sword as the basic weapon. In Japan, the katana works like a scimitar, but as I said, the type of damage changes. Don't forget that there is always Dedicated Weapon. One thing we could do instead is to add in Dedicated Weapon feature the ability to become proficient with a weapon of choice.
I’m well aware of what the butterfly swords are and how they are used. Earlier versions of DnD went into the different kinds of weapons in more detail but it’s not a thing in 5e. We basically have daggers (1/2 edged thrusting weapons with a blade of @6-12”), knives (1/2 edges, 6-12” blades, slashing weapons), short swords ( 1/2 edges, piercing 12-24”) , scimitars (1 edge, 12-24”blade, slashing) , rapiers ( 1/2 edges, 24-48” blades, piercing), long swords (1/2 edges, 24-48” blades, slashing) and two hand swords ( 1/2 edges, 48”+ blades, slashing) to fit hundreds of actual different types of swords into. The reality is most sabers and scimitars actually fit into the long sword category not DnD’s scimitar category but oh well 😁. Using the above categories butterfly knives fit into either the knife or scimitar class depending on how long the blades are. I’ve seen them ( like the pair in the video) under 12” and I’ve seen them over 12” . The longer ones are going to be of more use in a DnD style combat so I place them in the scimitar section. Frankly the class should have been called cutlasses or falchion not scimitars but , again, oh well 😁.
indeed most Chinese swords are DnD long swords with the butterfly swords a major exception. Martial arts/monk weapons are problematical for DnD because they include simple, martial and specialized weapons including modified nonmetallic peasant weapons like the Tonfa and nunchaku, military weapons like the Chinese longswords and katanas and specialized weapons like the manriki, sai and 3 section staff. While most peasant and military weapons are easy to reskin into one of the DnD categories the specialized weapons really need a category of their own. Having it would also give the weapon specialist feat some real meaning and usefulness.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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We will just have to agree to disagree. I do not think ANY class in the game needs to be getting 3 ability modifiers added to their AC. Temporary bonuses (like the Bladesinger getting to add Int during their bladesong)? Sure! But not at all times.
Let me put forth an alternative. We change the monk's Unarmored Defense to be 10+Con+Str/Dex (your choice). This should cover any variation you could put on physically blocking, deflecting, or dodging an attack. Then we give the monk a new feature called something like, idk, "Ki Shield" where you can spend X number of ki to add your Wisdom modifier to your AC for 1 minute. This gives the monk a route to benefit from 3 ability scores contributing to its AC at once and does not rely on a monk having both a good dex and str, and still encourages the monk to have a good Wisdom score but is a temporary boost. As long as your Wisdom is at least a 14, it is akin to the monk having a shield floating around their body for 1 minute. You could even let the ability level up later on to give them damage resistances while it is active or something.
Either that...or just let monks use shields. If you can just have a +2 AC from holding a shield, you really dont need the bonus from a third ability score (under the assumption it would likely only be a +1 or +2 anyway). This gives them an easy to acquire bonus to their AC without asking them to invest in yet another ability score to do it.
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Im okay with the idea of letting monks use Str instead of Dex for their AC calculation. Its unusual, but so is using Wisdom I suppose. What I do not agree with is the original comment that wanted to give the monk a combination of 3 ability scores to their AC.
I am okay with giving monks access to shields or some other AC boosting mechanic, but I do not want an AC calculation that depends on three scores. This not only makes the build more MAD than it already was, but also opens up an obvious exploit for minmaxing that isnt there for the traditional calculation.
Another idea is that if you think shields wont work for monk (or that they need more AC on top of that), then they could get a feature that lets them cast Shield of Faith on themselves, maybe reflavored as using their concentration to maintain a ki barrier or something.
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The monk is not a fighter and should not be treated as such. The monk is a combatant who uses inner power or spiritual power to fight. His connection to ki energy is what characterizes him. The goal of a monk is self-perfection, the pursuit of enlightenment and to achieve it they train their body and their spirit.
The Magic of Ki
Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse—specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies’ physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents. Using this energy, monks channel uncanny speed and strength into their unarmed strikes. As they gain experience, their martial training and their mastery of ki gives them more power over their bodies and the bodies of their foes.
Training and Asceticism
Small walled cloisters dot the landscapes of the worlds of D&D, tiny refuges from the flow of ordinary life, where time seems to stand still. The monks who live there seek personal perfection through contemplation and rigorous training. Many entered the monastery as children, sent to live there when their parents died, when food couldn’t be found to support them, or in return for some kindness that the monks had performed for their families.
Some monks live entirely apart from the surrounding population, secluded from anything that might impede their spiritual progress. Others are sworn to isolation, emerging only to serve as spies or assassins at the command of their leader, a noble patron, or some other mortal or divine power.
The majority of monks don’t shun their neighbors, making frequent visits to nearby towns or villages and exchanging their service for food and other goods. As versatile warriors, monks often end up protecting their neighbors from monsters or tyrants.
For a monk, becoming an adventurer means leaving a structured, communal lifestyle to become a wanderer. This can be a harsh transition, and monks don’t undertake it lightly. Those who leave their cloisters take their work seriously, approaching their adventures as personal tests of their physical and spiritual growth. As a rule, monks care little for material wealth and are driven by a desire to accomplish a greater mission than merely slaying monsters and plundering their treasure.
Buddhism and Taoism are very similar in this. Buddhism is about becoming a Buddha, that is, improving oneself and achieving enlightenment to the point of elevating oneself to the divine level. After all, Buddha was mortal before he became a god. In Buddhism you don't worship buddha per se but the teachings of buddha to become buddha. After all, Shaoling monks are Buddhists and train the body to the extreme to achieve enlightenment during their meditation. Buddhism was born in India where it is the origin of all Asian martial arts namely "kalaripayattu". These have spread with the Buddhist philosophy and have arrived in Japan where they are identified as the arts of kempo that led to the cration of karate as jujitzu. In Taoism from the word TAO or also called DAO which means "way". Essence of the doctrine is the tao, understanding of the universal principle of all things, indeterminate entity that represents the continuous change of nature and its alternation between positive and negative phases, which man must not try to change, but to which he must adapt. For those who don't know, the Tao is the basis of Tai-chi.
When I read the dnd monk's presentation I see that the influence of the Buddhism and Taoism philosophies is strong. You will probably tell me, the monk of dnd is not a Buddhist monk or a Taoist scholar. Ok, nothing to say, you are right. After all dnd is a fantasy world. With all this I just want to point out how much the monk is linked to the spiritual concept.
If you want to create or correct the monk, think also about his role in the group, how would a monk behave in determiante situations, what skills does he have and why did he develop these skills?What is the ki power? Why does ki have the power to heal, etc.? What I mean is not to limit yourself to pure game mechanics.
Sure, I disagreed with the three combined already, it'd be way too strong; I was just replying to your comments about Constitution being used instead of Strength.
I'm not opposed to shields as such as I think it could be interesting, I proposed that myself a few pages back iirc, though I was thinking as an alternative to the WIS + DEX/STR Unarmored Defence option (i.e- STR based Monks would still be limited to WIS + DEX for their basic AC, but could layer a shield onto it), the main issue there is theming and wording, i.e- allowing a shield for Martials Arts only if you are using Strength based attacks, might be a bit clunky.
I don't think Monks in general need shields (i.e- for DEX builds as well) though, as our AC does not need to be higher; it's already competitive so long as the DM gives the same magical item availability (i.e- Monk can get Bracers of Defense or such if allies get magic armour, counterbalanced by a decent non-attunement weapon if allies get attunement weapons, since magic armour doesn't require attunement but bracers of defence do).
We can already get that easily with a single level dip in Cleric, or Magic Initiate (Cleric), though in the latter case it's only single use. I'm a fan of Monk builds using a one or two level dip in War Domain as we get a fair bit out of it. I don't think we really need it as part of the core class though, because why would you ever not use it (other than having no choice)? Plus we already have Patient Defence.
This is what Monk AC needs to be taken in the context of; we have a competitive shieldless AC, with the ability to effectively Shield ourselves (as disadvantage to hit is equivalent to -5 to hit, or +5 AC), albeit preemptively as a bonus action rather than a reaction, so our defence is somewhere in the middle of that (base AC and boosted Patient Defence effective AC). And that's without factoring in cover use, because that's really hard to account for, but we do have the speed and other options to make use of it.
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That was just an explanation of how the role of the monk is designed now and not how I want it to be. It's just that I also wanted to point out that there are a lot of people who don't know how to play and use the monk as if he were a fighter or even a barbarian. Afterwards it's normal that they die and think that the monk lacks defense, lacks hit points, lacks etc.
Savage Attacks: When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon Attack, you can roll one of the weapon’s damage dice one additional time and add it to the extra damage of the critical hit.
The “Ki Shield” idea is nice but I would probably just leave AC calculations as 10+WIS+DEX, add 10+WIS+STR as an alternative option and then have the Ki shield add CON bonus to AC. You still need WIS for Ki save DC’s unless you change those as well.
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If we want a way to boost the AC, I personally like the idea of adding half your Proficiency Bonus (rounded down)
Doesn't break the game at early levels since it's only a +1, but a tier 4 monk with capped Dex and Wis would have a respectable 23 without Bracers of Defense or other tricks.
I like the flavor too, it makes the monk look "proficient with not getting hit" and keeps in line with the "naked" aesthetic and replaces a shield adequately.
As for allowing Str to replace Dex in Unarmored Defense I'm all for it, I don't think there's anything wrong with that
What happens if the monk actually makes Strength their dump stat? For example, lets say the monk has a 16 in Dex, 14 in Wisdom, and then makes Str their dump stat so lets say an 8 from the standard array.
With the traditional AC calculation, their starting AC = 10+3 (Dex)+2 (Wis) = 15
With your suggested method, their AC = 10+3(Dex)+2 (Wis) -1 (Str) = 14 which is worse than just excluding strength from the calculation in the first place. To offset this detriment, the monk now has to spend one of their few ASIs in order to bump their Str score.
By adding Strength into the calculation, you guarantee that a play MUST have at least a score of 10 allocated to Str or else it will act to pull DOWN their AC. In that way, the monk cannot ever really use Str as a dump stat and must put at least a little effort into increasing it if they want to achieve a noticeable bonus to their AC.
If you are going to make their AC score depend on your Strength ability IN ADDITION TO Dex and Wis, then your character is dependent on more abilities and is more MAD, by definition.
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Ok, I’m not going to go back and read 16 pages to see if this was covered earlier - just going to throw it out there. Adding another stat to max for any class, especially monk, is not good and shouldn’t be done. For monks you have to make a choice to go strength or Dex - this to a large extent corresponds with the decision to go with hard styles (strength based power styles like Shotokan karate) or soft styles (Dex based redirection styles like Akido) . I can see allowing (as a home brew rule or 6e change) having that choice also set the stat used for unarmed defense so if you chose strength based it becomes str+wis and Dex becomes a lesser stat while if you chose Dex it stays as Dex+wis and str is a lesser stat. Yes, I’m aware that there are mixed schools like Goju but even there the individual is generally slightly better with either Dex or strength and would make their choice. Keep in mind that that calls for basically 4 great stats (S, D, C, W) and you typically only get that with rolling for stats (& lucky rolls) not from point buy or standard array. Done this way it keeps the monk almost reasonable in terms of stats they need to raise/max. ( I don’t see how your going to lower the number to 2 stats from 3 but this at least keeps it 3 whether you are a strength or Dex based monk)
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Increasing stats is part of the game, but maxing out your stats is not the primary goal. If anything, most people prefer if they only need to max out one or two stats and can then be freed to use their ASIs at future levels to customize their character with feats.
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When I think of defense in martial arts, using my (very) limited experience with it, I think of it primarily in these ways
1. Blocking - In other words, just putting your guard up to stop an attack from hitting a more sensitive part of your body. I would associate this with enduring hits and would probably associate it with Constitution, although I could see the argument for Strength
2. Dodging - Plain and simple, just not being where the attack lands. This one is Dexterity but if you are looking at it from the end of reading opponent's movement or even supernatural premonition, then Wisdom makes sense as well
3. Deflecting - Knocking your opponent's hand/weapon/whatever slightly off course so you dont take the full brunt of the hit. This one would probably be primarily Dexterity, but again I could see an argument for Strength.
In this way, if you wanted to change a monk's unarmored defense to reflect different styles or approaches, you could just say something like:
Your AC is equal to 10 plus the sum of any two of the following ability scores, chosen when you get this feature: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, or Wisdom. You cannot use the same ability score for this calculation more than once.
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Blocking and redirecting are actually the same thing - making the foe’s attack miss. The primary difference between hard and soft styles is that in hard styles you are effectively attacking the attack trying to inflict some damage as you deflect the attack. In soft styles there is no attack but rather a dodge and deflection. Hard styles have less movement and more counter strikes while soft styles do more dodging and forcing the foe to damage themselves by running into stuff.
Either way your wording works well for this.
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I said it in my previous post, but yeah I think the ability to choose which physical attribute you specialize in at the beginning would be such an incredibly cool and unique core flavor for Monk. Like said, Strength for harder styles, Dexterity for softer styles, and Constitution for styles that are all about building up durability. Wisdom would still be required, but it makes thematic sense since you're applying knowledge to your physical prowess of choice in order to get the most control out of it.
Like, everything else suggested is cool but the above is the thing I'd love the most. My biggest complaint about Monk right now is no matter what you do it feels so pigeon-holed into essentially a speed class. Even subclasses, official or not, that try to take them in other directions...tankier, or strength based...it feels like you're trying to twist that same speed based class towards something it wasn't built to be at its core. There's so many wonderful martial arts archetypes that don't fit the game-archtypical monastic monk who's fast and hits a lot, grapplers, power hitters, iron bodied tanky martial artists to name a few. It'd be so wonderful to be able to explore all those avenues more freely.
Again, I’m not reading thru all 16 pages to see if this was raised earlier - if it was let me know where and go there to read that section.
a different concern I would love to see addressed in a 6e monk are the monk/martial arts weapons. There are a huge range of these and while many can be treated as reskinned common weapons (nunchaku =flail, katana=long sword, etc) many have no western analog and the section in a PHB should probably have 3 listings (simple, martial, monk). The monk weapons would then include things that can’t be reskinned or that while they can sort of the actual martial arts weapon is used very differently from the western weapon or is used in ways no (common) western weapon is used.
Nunchaku - yes it can be reskinned as a flail but the western flail was a strictly one handed weapon that was never moved from right to left as nunchaku are regularly . The flail also often had spikes or ridges in one of the sections making such transfers impossible without damage to yourself.
Sai- while the basic sai long section is clearly a piercing weapon allowing it to be reskinned as a short sword, the extended blade guards were designing Ed for disarming folks of swords or other weapons and should have that ability defined into them in some way.
manriki/Kusari-Gama - these combo weapons can’t really be reskinned from anything unless you combine multiple weapons. The straight manriki would combine the whip with 2 flails while the Kusari would combine the whip, flail and sickle.
I suspect that the difficulties there are what made them not do it in 5e.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Summing up what we have previously said: (with some of my modifications - in the spoiler is the original)
I'm sorry if you feel it is so complicated, that wasn't my intention. I did want to add options to the class, yet not too many as to make it overly complicated. And try to fit in the "next evolution" of D&D we are heading toward.
The things I added to the core class are:
So that is quite a bit. only a few are completely new, while the others are alterations to existing monk features.
Was there anything in particular that you found complicated? Or was it just the fact that there were this many changes to the PHB monk?
Instead, in this spoiler my personal vision of the new monk. It's not final yet, but I think there are some good points and some improvements. Any proposals?
Class Features
As a monk, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per monk level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 + your Constitution modifier per monk level after 1st
Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple weapons, shortswords
Tools: Choose one type of artisan's tools or one musical instrument
Saving Throws: Strength, Dexterity
Skills: Choose three from Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Medicine, Nature, Religion, and Stealth
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
Unarmored Defense
Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, you choose a defensive technique for calculating your AC. This choice is part of the school you have chosen and therefore cannot be changed.
Mountain Defense: your AC equals 10 + your Strength modifier + your Wisdom modifier
River Defense: your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords, and any simple weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren't wearing heavy armor or wielding a shield:
Certain monasteries use specialized forms of the monk weapons. For example, you might use a club that is two lengths of wood connected by a short chain (called a nunchaku) or a sickle with a shorter, straighter blade (called a kama). Whatever name you use for a monk weapon, you can use the game statistics provided for the weapon on the Weapons page.
Ki Techniques
Starting at 2nd level, your training allows you to harness the mystic energy of ki. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of ki points. Your monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Ki Points column of the Monk table.
You can spend these points to fuel various ki features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows and three others of your choice in the list of ki techniques. When you gain certain monk levels, you gain additional Ki techniques of your choice, as shown in the Ki techniques column of the monk table. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.
When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself. You must spend at least 30 minutes of the rest meditating to regain your ki points.
Some of your ki features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature's effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:
Ki save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as part of the same action. The number of extra attacks increases as you gain monk levels, increasing to three at 15th level and four at 20th level.
Shadow Arts (Prerequisite: 3h level): Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points to cast Darkness, Darkvision, Pass without Trace, or Silence, without providing material components. Additionally, you gain the Minor Illusion cantrip if you don't already know it.
Ki Sight (Prerequisite: 3th level): You can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet.
Mask of Many Facesyou (Prerequisite: 3th level): You can cast Disguise Self at will, without expending a spell slot.
Ki-Fueled Attack (Prerequisite: 4th level): You spend 1 ki point or more as part of your action on your turn, you can make one attack with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon as a bonus action before the end of the turn. Additionally, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. Choose only one of the following spells and as an action, you can spend 1 ki points to cast that spell without providing material components. The spells are: thunderwave, burning hands, frost fingers, Earth tremor, inflict wonds and magic missile.
Quickened Healing (Prerequisite: 4th level): As an action, you can spend 2 ki points and roll a Martial Arts die. You regain a number of hit points equal to the number rolled plus your proficiency bonus.
Gift of the Depths (Prerequisite: 4th level): You can breathe underwater, and you gain a swimming speed equal to your walking speed. You can also cast Water Breathing without expending ki power. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest.
Ninja (Prerequisite: 4th level): When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible until you move or take an action or a reaction.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Prerequisite: 13th level): You learn to touch the ki of other minds so that you understand all spoken languages. Moreover, any creature that can understand a language can understand what you say.
Karmic Sight (Prerequisite: 13th level): You can see the true form of any shapechanger or creature concealed by illusion or transmutation magic while the creature is within 30 feet of you and within line of sight.
Ki Master (Prerequisite: 13th level): You gain the ability to use your Ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 1 ki points to cast Darkvision, Detect Evil and Good, Tongue, Detect Poison and Disease and Longstrider. Additionally, you learn the guidance and invisible mage hand cantrips if you don't already know it. You cast this cast without any somatic or verbal components and without providing material components. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Unarmored Movement
Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing heavy armor or wielding a shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels, as shown in the Monk table. At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move. At 18th level, you gain the ability to move in the air on your turn without falling during the move.
Monastic Tradition
When you reach 3rd level, you commit yourself to a monastic tradition. Your tradition grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th, 11th, and 17th level.
Deflect Missiles
Starting at 3rd level, you can use your reaction to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level.
If you reduce the damage to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way, you can
spend 1 ki point tomake a ranged attack with a range of 20/60 using the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction. You make this attack with proficiency, regardless of your weapon proficiencies, and the missile counts as a monk weapon for the attack.Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Slow Fall
Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.
Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Stunning Strike
Starting at 5th level, you can interfere with the flow of ki in an opponent's body. When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. The stunning Strike is limited to one attempt per enemy hit during your turn. Beginning at 9th level, you are no longer limited in the use of your stunning Strike, and at 17th level every time you make a critical hit the enemy is automatically stunned until the end of your next turn.
Focused Aim (Optional)Also at 5th level, when you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 ki points to increase your attack roll by 2 for each of these ki points you spend, potentially turning the miss into a hit.<<Is this skill really necessary? In my opinion it is a trap to waste ki power.>>Ki-Empowered Strikes
Starting at 6th level, your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.The magic bonuses you receive from your primary weapon can also be used by your unarmed attacks. This feature cannot be added to other magic items with similar effects.
Evasion
At 7th level, your instinctive agility lets you dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a blue dragon's lightning breath or a fireball spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Stillness of Mind
Starting at 7th level, you have advantage on saving throws against being charmed or frightened. This applies to initial saves as well as ongoing saving throws. If you
become aware that youare charmed or frightened you can use your bonus action to end one of these effects on yourself.Body Culitvation
At 10th level, your mastery of the ki flowing through you makes you immune to disease and poison. You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength or Dextery modifier when making Acrobatics or Athletics checks.
Soul Cultivation
Beginning at 14th level, your mastery of ki grants you proficiency in all saving throws. Additionally, whenever you make a saving throw or an ability check and fail, you can spend 1 ki point to reroll it and take the second result.
Timeless Body
At 15th level, your ki sustains you so that you suffer none of the frailty of old age, and you can't be aged magically. You can still die of old age, however. The Ki power that you wield causes you to age more slowly. For every 10 years that pass, your body ages only 1 year. You no longer need food or water, but you can still die of old age, however.
Empty Body
Beginning at 18th level, you can use your action to spend 4 ki points to become invisible for 1 minute. During that time, you also have resistance to all damage but force damage. Additionally, you can spend 8 ki points to cast the Astral Projection spell, without needing material components. When you do so, you can't take any other creatures with you.
Enlightenment
At 20th level, when you roll for initiative and have no ki points remaining, you regain 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier ki points. You don't have to be at zero Ki to use this feature.
One note on the weapons allowed/gained at L1 - while I grant the short swords are able to be reskinned as sais as both are piercing weapons the double sword Chinese style that is most commonly seen is the butterfly knives/swords and in DND they would be reskinned scimitars (slashing weapons) all of the other swords I can think of would be reskinned long swords. Even the wakazashi and ninjato would be reskinned scimitars. So maybe instead of short swords the weapon they get should be scimitars?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It is true what you say, although between short sword and scimitar there is only the difference in the type of damage. The double butterfly sword you say is like two big Dagger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_a0m2pWz8
Among the Chinese weapons that most closely resemble the scimitar are Dao swords, but I think most Chinese weapons are swords. So I think it's fair to leave the short sword as the basic weapon. In Japan, the katana works like a scimitar, but as I said, the type of damage changes. Don't forget that there is always Dedicated Weapon. One thing we could do instead is to add in Dedicated Weapon feature the ability to become proficient with a weapon of choice.
Every battle start 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier ki points + Flurry of Blows with four attacks, sounds pretty good to me already. I was more inspired by the fighter than the barbarian.
I’m well aware of what the butterfly swords are and how they are used. Earlier versions of DnD went into the different kinds of weapons in more detail but it’s not a thing in 5e. We basically have daggers (1/2 edged thrusting weapons with a blade of @6-12”), knives (1/2 edges, 6-12” blades, slashing weapons), short swords ( 1/2 edges, piercing 12-24”) , scimitars (1 edge, 12-24”blade, slashing) , rapiers ( 1/2 edges, 24-48” blades, piercing), long swords (1/2 edges, 24-48” blades, slashing) and two hand swords ( 1/2 edges, 48”+ blades, slashing) to fit hundreds of actual different types of swords into. The reality is most sabers and scimitars actually fit into the long sword category not DnD’s scimitar category but oh well 😁. Using the above categories butterfly knives fit into either the knife or scimitar class depending on how long the blades are. I’ve seen them ( like the pair in the video) under 12” and I’ve seen them over 12” . The longer ones are going to be of more use in a DnD style combat so I place them in the scimitar section. Frankly the class should have been called cutlasses or falchion not scimitars but , again, oh well 😁.
indeed most Chinese swords are DnD long swords with the butterfly swords a major exception. Martial arts/monk weapons are problematical for DnD because they include simple, martial and specialized weapons including modified nonmetallic peasant weapons like the Tonfa and nunchaku, military weapons like the Chinese longswords and katanas and specialized weapons like the manriki, sai and 3 section staff. While most peasant and military weapons are easy to reskin into one of the DnD categories the specialized weapons really need a category of their own. Having it would also give the weapon specialist feat some real meaning and usefulness.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.