Our monk is feeling a little nerfed, and I wanted to get some clarification.
For combat, can the monk use Disengage as an action, after attacking using Unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows as a bonus action? Or do you absolutely have to take the attack action first?
He's level 4, and going Way of the Four Elements. He feels like the DM has a bias against monks, and feels pretty underwhelmed overall.
One feat that is a must for Monk builds is the Mobile Feat.
You are exceptionally speedy and agile. You gain the following benefits:
Your speed increases by 10 feet.
When you use the Dash action, difficult terrain doesn't cost you extra movement on that turn.
When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
I know having to take a feat for this is a bit of an inconvenience, but it is also one of the most useful Feats you can equip on a Monk... or most any class.
It works with any melee attack you make, including flurry of blows and doesn't matter if it hits or not. Instead of using the 1 Ki point for Step of the Wind, you instead can use that 1 Ki point to attack 3 different targets and then get away from them.
For later strategies with Monk:
Think of them more like a Tank with Status Effect attacks. Monks are great at avoiding damage (in some ways better than Rogues), but will merely chip away at most targets. Where as a Rogue gets to deal a massive amount of damage with 1 hit and then run, Monks will do so in the long run while staying on the frontlines.
In a 1v1, they can basically outlast most any enemy they face and all the while getting in plenty of hits; stunning and locking the enemy down.
You shouldn't think of them as a damage-dealing class and should setup and chain your actions based on teamwork. I won't say that they are strictly a support class as they can carry their own... but it takes a bit of a reserved and strategic mind to keep from overextending.
Other key feats to add would be:
Sentinel, Mage Slayer, and Crusher. These feats will let you control the enemy and battlefield and with your mobility, get you to those targets that you need to stop quickly. Both Sentinel and Mage Slayer gives you plenty of opportunities to get a Reaction Attack out and allows you to Stun them till the end of you next turn.
For combat, can the monk use Disengage as an action, after attacking using Unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows as a bonus action? Or do you absolutely have to take the attack action first?
To attack you need to use the Attack action, all of a Monk's bonus attacks then come from the bonus acton. If you want to Disengage however you can spend 1 Ki point to use Step of the Wind to Disengage as a bonus action instead.
Personally I often prefer to use Patient Defence (Dodge as a bonus action); while it doesn't stop enemies from making opportunity attacks, they'll be at disadvantage, as will any attacks against you before your next turn, so it's usually better value IMO (though there will be times it doesn't pay off).
He's level 4, and going Way of the Four Elements. He feels like the DM has a bias against monks, and feels pretty underwhelmed overall.
A lot of the problems Monks will face comes from how your DM runs their campaign; Monks thrive in situations where combats take place in varied locations, with varied enemy groups, as they excel at crossing distances quickly to close with key targets and just generally outmanoeuvring or rapidly closing with enemies. But a lot of DM's, especially in theatre of the mind, don't run the types of combats that Monks really need, so in a close range hacking contest it's harder to compete. Monks also do well in joining stealth operations, and are decent at out of combat skills (being Dexterity and Wisdom focused covers a lot of useful skills). But a Monk will struggle in a killbox combat heavy campaign.
It can also depend on the party composition; Monks have a high degree of versatility, so they can fill in for roles that a group lacks, or let you double up on roles you need more of in a given situation, e.g- joining the front line melee fighter to deal damage, using Patient Defence to tank a bit, rapidly moving to support vulnerable casters etc. But if your party doesn't have gaps or areas where doubling down is frequently useful then it can be harder for a Monk to find their place.
Lastly, the frequency of short rests will heavily impact the effectiveness of a Monk (or Warlock) in the party; it's up to the players who need short rests to push for them, because others won't if they only care about the one long rest per day instead, but short rests can be super useful for healing, and for a Monk will refresh their Ki which makes a huge difference. This is even more important for a Four Elements Monk since they are Ki dependent for their casting, which will otherwise be quite weak. With short rests it can otherwise sit somewhere between a third caster (Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight) or a half caster (Aritificer, Paladin or Ranger) in performance.
As jl8e says you can take the Mobile feat to make a Monk more… well, mobile. Though personally I now prefer the Crusher feat from Tasha's Cauldron; we're already crazy fast so extra speed isn't that important, meanwhile Crusher is a half feat (so you can still boost an ability score by 1), and whenever you deal bludgeoning damage (e.g- quarterstaff and/or unarmed strikes) you can shunt your target 5 feet, ideal for pushing towards hazards, or pushing away from yourself or an ally so you can move away. It also does a pseudo-stun on a critical hit, which Monks have a decent chance at triggering when attacking 3 or 4 times per turn.
Another part of the DM's job is to balance the players so everybody is having fun and feeling like they're contributing; if one character is struggling then it's good to change up how you run things, and they may also be a prime candidate for a magic item (eldritch claw tattoo, most magic quarterstaffs, or bracers of defense are all ideal for a monk), or a bonus feat, whatever it takes to have everyone on the same level. Rebalancing the players isn't a unique thing to monks, as some players will always optimise more than others, but it's something that DMs should to (fairness is about what balances the players, not everybody getting a magic item at the same time).
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Monk's step of the wind or "disengage" is really one of the biggest bummers of the class because it's just so incredibly ineffective... as a whole monk's struggle with the fact that so many of their class features, but especially this, just don't do the job the way you want it done, so if thats the playstyle you want, you're better off with the crusher or mobile featpointless.. or if 1v1 with open hand, doing a knockback, rendering this entire class feature pointless..
Unarmored defense faces a similar issue where it just doesn't scale as well as other defensive options like actually wearing armor or taking feats like tough or just being lucky enough to have a dm that will gift you a ring of protection and/or bracers of defense but that also limits your slots for attack..
So basically monk's shortcomings can be crutched with some feats or items, but not all of them... you can be hard to hit OR you can be mobile OR you can do okay damage... you can't do all 3, or even 2 most of the time.
Unarmored defense faces a similar issue where it just doesn't scale as well as other defensive options like actually wearing armor or taking feats like tough or just being lucky enough to have a dm that will gift you a ring of protection and/or bracers of defense but that also limits your slots for attack.
I don't get this; with Point Buy it's fairly easy to start with both Dexterity and Wisdom of 16 (+3) for a starting AC of 16. Only characters using a shield can really beat that.
If you're only looking to bump those two scores you'll be boosting your AC by 1 each time you get an ability score increase (along with a load of other benefits). This makes it actually a pretty competitive AC, especially when you can couple it with Patient Defense (which is roughly equivalent to enemies having a -5 to hit you) and gets easier to use over time (more Ki points), so if you need to be you can be harder to hit than most other martials.
The main problem with bracers of defense or ring of protection is that they require attunement where regular armour (like leather, +1) don't, but that's not really a big deal, as it's still a class with Patient Defense (and a ring of protection combined with Diamond Soul is a huge deal).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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I mean most heavy armor users will be using a shield... also I'm talking about scaling, not lv 1.. it's not easy to get your wisdom and dex modifiers past +5 so you're looking at a maximum of 20, which is the base for any heavy armor user (plate 18 ac) using a shield ( +2) without even beginning to consider things like defensive fighting style, warforged, etc... paladins clerics fighters can all easily get over 20 ac by level 5 without having to throw down for feats or take attunement slots for it.
All while still bringing more reliable party utility, damage, and in the case of paladins and clerics, heals before even considering subclass perks
Lv 4: 40 walking speed, 15AC. <not exactly the best armor rating for frontline fighters, but that's using standard array and Human at level 2-4.
You can get 16AC with point buy and a potential starting max of 18AC if you get lucky with manual rolls and get two 18's.
At level 4 (Or 8 depending upon which ability modifier level you want to use), you can possibly get it up to 20AC. Later adding Ring of Protection, Cloak of Protection, and Bracers of Defense will get you up to 24AC without reducing your speed gains, which (with Mobile) would eventually get you up to 70ft.
1d4+3 x3 (average of 15 damage) at level 4. At 5th level, you get Stunning Strike which will give you 4 chances every turn to stun-lock a target. Eventually you will be able to get 4d6+5 (average of 32 damage per turn) and 4 chances to stun a target. <Stun gives you advantage on the target till you next turn and thus will give you many more chances to hit and therefore stun the target again.
3d10 with Water Whip, knock enemy prone (<setup ally for their turn to get Advantage) or move it 25ft closer to you (<controlling enemy movement is a pretty big deal and 25ft is a distance that most other martials or classes do not get). 5 or 10 ft sure, but 25ft is actually a lot.
The combo of being able to control the enemy's movement (especially with Way of the Four Elements spells), get to the most dangerous target and lock it down via stun, you can also potentially stop up to 4 separate targets in their tracks and leave them open to your allies or for your next attacks. And you can do so with a speed that few can match. If you were hasted or forgone the Flurry of Blows to go with Step of the Wind, you'd be moving up to 140ft per turn and still have two attacks. <ain't no Tabaxi but it's still pretty good.
Other fun stuff that you can do that no other martial can do is grapple a target and jump off of something high. You've got built-in slow fall. For every 10ft fallen, the enemy would take 1d6. You negate 5 damage per level. Just make sure you're extra careful about using this tactic at lower levels. At level 20, you basically become immune to Fall Damage (100 dmg negated) as the maximum fall damage per RAW (DM's may rule differently) is 120 damage... or 200ft.
I mean most heavy armor users will be using a shield... also I'm talking about scaling, not lv 1.. it's not easy to get your wisdom and dex modifiers past +5 so you're looking at a maximum of 20, which is the base for any heavy armor user (plate 18 ac) using a shield ( +2) without even beginning to consider things like defensive fighting style, warforged, etc... paladins clerics fighters can all easily get over 20 ac by level 5 without having to throw down for feats or take attunement slots for it.
Plate Armor costs 1,500 gp, which is in the range of bracers of defense, so if a DM's going to make plate obtainable they should do the same for those when they're handling equipment progression.
And again, it's not just the raw AC; Patient Defense makes you harder to hit, which makes a Monk's effective AC higher when they need to, so it's never as simple as "but one number is higher sometimes maybe if you do X, Y and Z".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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I mean most heavy armor users will be using a shield... also I'm talking about scaling, not lv 1.. it's not easy to get your wisdom and dex modifiers past +5 so you're looking at a maximum of 20, which is the base for any heavy armor user (plate 18 ac) using a shield ( +2) without even beginning to consider things like defensive fighting style, warforged, etc... paladins clerics fighters can all easily get over 20 ac by level 5 without having to throw down for feats or take attunement slots for it.
Plate Armor costs 1,500 gp, which is in the range of bracers of defense, so if a DM's going to make plate obtainable they should do the same for those when they're handling equipment progression.
And again, it's not just the raw AC; Patient Defense makes you harder to hit, which makes a Monk's effective AC higher when they need to, so it's never as simple as "but one number is higher sometimes maybe if you do X, Y and Z".
patient defense costs a ki point AND a bonus action, so again you're sacrificing damage and the chance to attempt a stun. so again going back to the original statement I made, monks have the potential to be okay defensively, but they sacrifice their offense and sometimes mobility to do that, where as other martial classes can also be just as hard to hit just in their base kit without too much supplementation or reliance on feats or resources like Ki.
gearing up a monk feels like removing detriments instead of adding to or complimenting features. monks whole base kit is just incomplete, they'd be a lot more in line with other classes if they either had a way to regenerate ki points in combat, or had something like action surge for bonus actions.
patient defense costs a ki point AND a bonus action, so again you're sacrificing damage and the chance to attempt a stun. so again going back to the original statement I made, monks have the potential to be okay defensively, but they sacrifice their offense and sometimes mobility to do that, where as other martial classes can also be just as hard to hit just in their base kit without too much supplementation or reliance on feats or resources like Ki.
They're more than "okay defensively"; when using Patient Defence they can easily exceed the defence of other classes and be harder to hit than them; if another class has AC 20 while you're "only" 17 or 18, but you can effectively impose -5 on enemies to hit you then your defence is roughly equivalent to AC 22/23. That's the nature of the trade-off you're making; the Monk doesn't need to be as good as every other martial in areas that they excel it, it surpasses most in short strategic bursts.
There's a significant element of risk/reward; yes you could make more attacks, and maybe score a stunning strike, burning a load more Ki in the process, but against some enemies that's unlikely and if they're focused on you anyway then Patient Defense is the better option, as every attack that's missing you is an attack not being directed at an ally.
Now there are certainly areas in which the Monk could be improved, especially with regards to how the game is typically run (in which movement isn't as valuable as it should be, many DM's don't prepare mixed enemy groups with priority targets etc.). There are plenty of threads on what could be improved; Disengage being free for one (so it's actually worth doing, as you're almost always better off using Patient Defence instead), an extra ability score increase at 10th-level (like Rogues get) would help a lot mid-game etc.
But for what monks have now, they are plenty playable and I've yet to have a player in any of my groups not have fun as a monk once they've gotten a feel for what their options are and learned to pace their Ki use (same as casters need to with spell slots).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Lv 4: 40 walking speed, 15AC. <not exactly the best armor rating for frontline fighters, but that's using standard array and Human at level 2-4.
You can get 16AC with point buy and a potential starting max of 18AC if you get lucky with manual rolls and get two 18's.
At level 4 (Or 8 depending upon which ability modifier level you want to use), you can possibly get it up to 20AC. Later adding Ring of Protection, Cloak of Protection, and Bracers of Defense will get you up to 24AC without reducing your speed gains, which (with Mobile) would eventually get you up to 70ft.
1d4+3 x3 (average of 15 damage) at level 4. At 5th level, you get Stunning Strike which will give you 4 chances every turn to stun-lock a target. Eventually you will be able to get 4d6+5 (average of 32 damage per turn) and 4 chances to stun a target. <Stun gives you advantage on the target till you next turn and thus will give you many more chances to hit and therefore stun the target again.
3d10 with Water Whip, knock enemy prone (<setup ally for their turn to get Advantage) or move it 25ft closer to you (<controlling enemy movement is a pretty big deal and 25ft is a distance that most other martials or classes do not get). 5 or 10 ft sure, but 25ft is actually a lot.
The combo of being able to control the enemy's movement (especially with Way of the Four Elements spells), get to the most dangerous target and lock it down via stun, you can also potentially stop up to 4 separate targets in their tracks and leave them open to your allies or for your next attacks. And you can do so with a speed that few can match. If you were hasted or forgone the Flurry of Blows to go with Step of the Wind, you'd be moving up to 140ft per turn and still have two attacks. <ain't no Tabaxi but it's still pretty good.
Other fun stuff that you can do that no other martial can do is grapple a target and jump off of something high. You've got built-in slow fall. For every 10ft fallen, the enemy would take 1d6. You negate 5 damage per level. Just make sure you're extra careful about using this tactic at lower levels. At level 20, you basically become immune to Fall Damage (100 dmg negated) as the maximum fall damage per RAW (DM's may rule differently) is 120 damage... or 200ft.
To the Bolded above. Sure you can stun 4 times per turn but at 5th level you only get one turn (1 Ki for FoB to get 4 attacks, and 4 points on stunning strikes). Then you are out until a short rest, which can vary from table to table on how many, if any, you get. I doubt you would try 4 times in one turn, unless you were surrounded, but that’s what you said so I am going off of that. At level 20 you can do this for 4 turns before running out.
Edit: grapple is nice but you have to build for it (Astral Self). Unless you are rolling for stats and do very well, STR is usually a dump stat, which you use for grappling. So not always reliable
At 5th level, you get Stunning Strike which will give you 4 chances every turn to stun-lock a target.
To the Bolded above. Sure you can stun 4 times per turn but at 5th level you only get one turn (1 Ki for FoB to get 4 attacks, and 4 points on stunning strikes). The. You are out until a short rest, which can vary from table to table on how many, if any, you get. I doubt you would try 4 times in one turn, unless you were surrounded, but that’s what you said so I am going off of that. At level 20 you can do this for 4 turns before running out.
To be fair, you only spend Ki until it succeeds (or you decide to stop spending Ki); you could stun on the first or second try for only 1 or 2 Ki points (no Flurry of Blows required).
It depends a lot on how often you're hitting and how likely the target is to fail the saving throw. Even against a difficult to stun target, giving everyone in the party advantage against it and robbing of it at least an entire round can easily be worth the full 5 Ki, as that's not only extra damage dealt to it, but less damage taken by the party. And compared to a caster with hold person or similar, you're not banking on a single attempt, and worst case you've hopefully still dealt some damage at the very least, rather than wasted an entire turn.
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At 5th level, you get Stunning Strike which will give you 4 chances every turn to stun-lock a target.
To the Bolded above. Sure you can stun 4 times per turn but at 5th level you only get one turn (1 Ki for FoB to get 4 attacks, and 4 points on stunning strikes). The. You are out until a short rest, which can vary from table to table on how many, if any, you get. I doubt you would try 4 times in one turn, unless you were surrounded, but that’s what you said so I am going off of that. At level 20 you can do this for 4 turns before running out.
To be fair, you only spend Ki until it succeeds (or you decide to stop spending Ki); you could stun on the first or second try for only 1 or 2 Ki points (no Flurry of Blows required).
It depends a lot on how often you're hitting and how likely the target is to fail the saving throw. Even against a difficult to stun target, giving everyone in the party advantage against it and robbing of it at least an entire round can easily be worth the full 5 Ki, as that's not only extra damage dealt to it, but less damage taken by the party. And compared to a caster with hold person or similar, you're not banking on a single attempt, and worst case you've hopefully still dealt some damage at the very least, rather than wasted an entire turn.
Which is why I said what I said highlighted in red above. Sure, a situation might dictate using the full 5 Ki, but I don’t think it would be common practice unless the DM gives short rests after each fight.
I am honestly against this way of playing. If I were the DM and a monk behaved this way I would make it play at least 3 encounters without having time to do even a short rest. At least it learns how to use resources in the right way.
it is true that on some occasions it might be necessary, such as when a spellcaster has activated an insidious spell and making it lose concentration is the best way to interrupt the spell. But if one has to escape because surrounded by enemies, it is much better to use Step of the Wind.
At 5th level, you get Stunning Strike which will give you 4 chances every turn to stun-lock a target.
To the Bolded above. Sure you can stun 4 times per turn but at 5th level you only get one turn (1 Ki for FoB to get 4 attacks, and 4 points on stunning strikes). The. You are out until a short rest, which can vary from table to table on how many, if any, you get. I doubt you would try 4 times in one turn, unless you were surrounded, but that’s what you said so I am going off of that. At level 20 you can do this for 4 turns before running out.
To be fair, you only spend Ki until it succeeds (or you decide to stop spending Ki); you could stun on the first or second try for only 1 or 2 Ki points (no Flurry of Blows required).
It depends a lot on how often you're hitting and how likely the target is to fail the saving throw. Even against a difficult to stun target, giving everyone in the party advantage against it and robbing of it at least an entire round can easily be worth the full 5 Ki, as that's not only extra damage dealt to it, but less damage taken by the party. And compared to a caster with hold person or similar, you're not banking on a single attempt, and worst case you've hopefully still dealt some damage at the very least, rather than wasted an entire turn.
Which is why I said what I said highlighted in red above. Sure, a situation might dictate using the full 5 Ki, but I don’t think it would be common practice unless the DM gives short rests after each fight.
I agree. Using all of your Ki points in one go isn't the best idea. It's nice having the option of a almost guaranteed stun, but situations where you just have to stop that one target (or multiple targets) hopefully isn't that often.
As stated before, the Monk has status-effect attacks. Not much in damage, but it can do a ton of crazy things that can lock an enemy down and/or setup allies for their attacks.
Preferably: You'd run in, hit the enemy (or enemies), stunning them, back up and then let the rest of the party get their hits in.
But in a bad situation, You can run in, hit them with your regular attacks, setup patient defense, and hold your ground.
In a clutch move: You can run right up to a enemy caster on the other side of the map, attack and stun him, and then... hopefully have enough AC or health to tank whatever comes next until you can get out of there or continue to keep the caster in check. Most casters spells would be well within your 60+ movement speed x Step of the Wind. 120ft range is (I think) default for the majority of spell attacks.
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Our monk is feeling a little nerfed, and I wanted to get some clarification.
For combat, can the monk use Disengage as an action, after attacking using Unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows as a bonus action? Or do you absolutely have to take the attack action first?
He's level 4, and going Way of the Four Elements. He feels like the DM has a bias against monks, and feels pretty underwhelmed overall.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Yeah, monks aren't as mobile in combat as they are made out to be.
You can only make an attack action with a regular action, not a bonus action.
Once you take the regular attack, you can spend your bonus action to make a free attack, or spend ki on flurry of blows.
Instead, you can use your bonus action and a ki to disengage with Step of the Wind.
(There's also the optional feature (Ki-Fueled Strikes) where you can make a free strike as a bonus action if you spend ki as part of your action.)
Having just leveled past 4th with a four elements monk myself, it did feel like the class drags some there.
One feat that is a must for Monk builds is the Mobile Feat.
You are exceptionally speedy and agile. You gain the following benefits:
I know having to take a feat for this is a bit of an inconvenience, but it is also one of the most useful Feats you can equip on a Monk... or most any class.
It works with any melee attack you make, including flurry of blows and doesn't matter if it hits or not. Instead of using the 1 Ki point for Step of the Wind, you instead can use that 1 Ki point to attack 3 different targets and then get away from them.
For later strategies with Monk:
Think of them more like a Tank with Status Effect attacks. Monks are great at avoiding damage (in some ways better than Rogues), but will merely chip away at most targets. Where as a Rogue gets to deal a massive amount of damage with 1 hit and then run, Monks will do so in the long run while staying on the frontlines.
In a 1v1, they can basically outlast most any enemy they face and all the while getting in plenty of hits; stunning and locking the enemy down.
You shouldn't think of them as a damage-dealing class and should setup and chain your actions based on teamwork. I won't say that they are strictly a support class as they can carry their own... but it takes a bit of a reserved and strategic mind to keep from overextending.
Other key feats to add would be:
Sentinel, Mage Slayer, and Crusher. These feats will let you control the enemy and battlefield and with your mobility, get you to those targets that you need to stop quickly. Both Sentinel and Mage Slayer gives you plenty of opportunities to get a Reaction Attack out and allows you to Stun them till the end of you next turn.
To attack you need to use the Attack action, all of a Monk's bonus attacks then come from the bonus acton. If you want to Disengage however you can spend 1 Ki point to use Step of the Wind to Disengage as a bonus action instead.
Personally I often prefer to use Patient Defence (Dodge as a bonus action); while it doesn't stop enemies from making opportunity attacks, they'll be at disadvantage, as will any attacks against you before your next turn, so it's usually better value IMO (though there will be times it doesn't pay off).
A lot of the problems Monks will face comes from how your DM runs their campaign; Monks thrive in situations where combats take place in varied locations, with varied enemy groups, as they excel at crossing distances quickly to close with key targets and just generally outmanoeuvring or rapidly closing with enemies. But a lot of DM's, especially in theatre of the mind, don't run the types of combats that Monks really need, so in a close range hacking contest it's harder to compete. Monks also do well in joining stealth operations, and are decent at out of combat skills (being Dexterity and Wisdom focused covers a lot of useful skills). But a Monk will struggle in a killbox combat heavy campaign.
It can also depend on the party composition; Monks have a high degree of versatility, so they can fill in for roles that a group lacks, or let you double up on roles you need more of in a given situation, e.g- joining the front line melee fighter to deal damage, using Patient Defence to tank a bit, rapidly moving to support vulnerable casters etc. But if your party doesn't have gaps or areas where doubling down is frequently useful then it can be harder for a Monk to find their place.
Lastly, the frequency of short rests will heavily impact the effectiveness of a Monk (or Warlock) in the party; it's up to the players who need short rests to push for them, because others won't if they only care about the one long rest per day instead, but short rests can be super useful for healing, and for a Monk will refresh their Ki which makes a huge difference. This is even more important for a Four Elements Monk since they are Ki dependent for their casting, which will otherwise be quite weak. With short rests it can otherwise sit somewhere between a third caster (Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight) or a half caster (Aritificer, Paladin or Ranger) in performance.
As jl8e says you can take the Mobile feat to make a Monk more… well, mobile. Though personally I now prefer the Crusher feat from Tasha's Cauldron; we're already crazy fast so extra speed isn't that important, meanwhile Crusher is a half feat (so you can still boost an ability score by 1), and whenever you deal bludgeoning damage (e.g- quarterstaff and/or unarmed strikes) you can shunt your target 5 feet, ideal for pushing towards hazards, or pushing away from yourself or an ally so you can move away. It also does a pseudo-stun on a critical hit, which Monks have a decent chance at triggering when attacking 3 or 4 times per turn.
Another part of the DM's job is to balance the players so everybody is having fun and feeling like they're contributing; if one character is struggling then it's good to change up how you run things, and they may also be a prime candidate for a magic item (eldritch claw tattoo, most magic quarterstaffs, or bracers of defense are all ideal for a monk), or a bonus feat, whatever it takes to have everyone on the same level. Rebalancing the players isn't a unique thing to monks, as some players will always optimise more than others, but it's something that DMs should to (fairness is about what balances the players, not everybody getting a magic item at the same time).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
You can already do that to my knowledge. That feature is made for if you use a weapon
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
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As others have said you need to use the Attack action in order to make the bonus action unarmed strike or Flurry of Blows.
So you can
Attack action attack with a weapon or unarmed strike. Then bonus action unarmed strike or FoB.
Attack action attack with a weapon or unarmed strike. Then bonus action Disengage, Dash, or Dodge for 1ki point.
Use the Disengage, Dash, or Dodge action as an action. But then you can’t then use your bonus action for the unarmed strike or FoB
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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Monk's step of the wind or "disengage" is really one of the biggest bummers of the class because it's just so incredibly ineffective... as a whole monk's struggle with the fact that so many of their class features, but especially this, just don't do the job the way you want it done, so if thats the playstyle you want, you're better off with the crusher or mobile featpointless.. or if 1v1 with open hand, doing a knockback, rendering this entire class feature pointless..
Unarmored defense faces a similar issue where it just doesn't scale as well as other defensive options like actually wearing armor or taking feats like tough or just being lucky enough to have a dm that will gift you a ring of protection and/or bracers of defense but that also limits your slots for attack..
So basically monk's shortcomings can be crutched with some feats or items, but not all of them... you can be hard to hit OR you can be mobile OR you can do okay damage... you can't do all 3, or even 2 most of the time.
I don't get this; with Point Buy it's fairly easy to start with both Dexterity and Wisdom of 16 (+3) for a starting AC of 16. Only characters using a shield can really beat that.
If you're only looking to bump those two scores you'll be boosting your AC by 1 each time you get an ability score increase (along with a load of other benefits). This makes it actually a pretty competitive AC, especially when you can couple it with Patient Defense (which is roughly equivalent to enemies having a -5 to hit you) and gets easier to use over time (more Ki points), so if you need to be you can be harder to hit than most other martials.
The main problem with bracers of defense or ring of protection is that they require attunement where regular armour (like leather, +1) don't, but that's not really a big deal, as it's still a class with Patient Defense (and a ring of protection combined with Diamond Soul is a huge deal).
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I mean most heavy armor users will be using a shield... also I'm talking about scaling, not lv 1.. it's not easy to get your wisdom and dex modifiers past +5 so you're looking at a maximum of 20, which is the base for any heavy armor user (plate 18 ac) using a shield ( +2) without even beginning to consider things like defensive fighting style, warforged, etc... paladins clerics fighters can all easily get over 20 ac by level 5 without having to throw down for feats or take attunement slots for it.
All while still bringing more reliable party utility, damage, and in the case of paladins and clerics, heals before even considering subclass perks
Lv 4: 40 walking speed, 15AC. <not exactly the best armor rating for frontline fighters, but that's using standard array and Human at level 2-4.
You can get 16AC with point buy and a potential starting max of 18AC if you get lucky with manual rolls and get two 18's.
At level 4 (Or 8 depending upon which ability modifier level you want to use), you can possibly get it up to 20AC. Later adding Ring of Protection, Cloak of Protection, and Bracers of Defense will get you up to 24AC without reducing your speed gains, which (with Mobile) would eventually get you up to 70ft.
1d4+3 x3 (average of 15 damage) at level 4. At 5th level, you get Stunning Strike which will give you 4 chances every turn to stun-lock a target. Eventually you will be able to get 4d6+5 (average of 32 damage per turn) and 4 chances to stun a target. <Stun gives you advantage on the target till you next turn and thus will give you many more chances to hit and therefore stun the target again.
3d10 with Water Whip, knock enemy prone (<setup ally for their turn to get Advantage) or move it 25ft closer to you (<controlling enemy movement is a pretty big deal and 25ft is a distance that most other martials or classes do not get). 5 or 10 ft sure, but 25ft is actually a lot.
The combo of being able to control the enemy's movement (especially with Way of the Four Elements spells), get to the most dangerous target and lock it down via stun, you can also potentially stop up to 4 separate targets in their tracks and leave them open to your allies or for your next attacks. And you can do so with a speed that few can match. If you were hasted or forgone the Flurry of Blows to go with Step of the Wind, you'd be moving up to 140ft per turn and still have two attacks. <ain't no Tabaxi but it's still pretty good.
Other fun stuff that you can do that no other martial can do is grapple a target and jump off of something high. You've got built-in slow fall. For every 10ft fallen, the enemy would take 1d6. You negate 5 damage per level. Just make sure you're extra careful about using this tactic at lower levels. At level 20, you basically become immune to Fall Damage (100 dmg negated) as the maximum fall damage per RAW (DM's may rule differently) is 120 damage... or 200ft.
Plate Armor costs 1,500 gp, which is in the range of bracers of defense, so if a DM's going to make plate obtainable they should do the same for those when they're handling equipment progression.
And again, it's not just the raw AC; Patient Defense makes you harder to hit, which makes a Monk's effective AC higher when they need to, so it's never as simple as "but one number is higher sometimes maybe if you do X, Y and Z".
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patient defense costs a ki point AND a bonus action, so again you're sacrificing damage and the chance to attempt a stun. so again going back to the original statement I made, monks have the potential to be okay defensively, but they sacrifice their offense and sometimes mobility to do that, where as other martial classes can also be just as hard to hit just in their base kit without too much supplementation or reliance on feats or resources like Ki.
gearing up a monk feels like removing detriments instead of adding to or complimenting features. monks whole base kit is just incomplete, they'd be a lot more in line with other classes if they either had a way to regenerate ki points in combat, or had something like action surge for bonus actions.
They're more than "okay defensively"; when using Patient Defence they can easily exceed the defence of other classes and be harder to hit than them; if another class has AC 20 while you're "only" 17 or 18, but you can effectively impose -5 on enemies to hit you then your defence is roughly equivalent to AC 22/23. That's the nature of the trade-off you're making; the Monk doesn't need to be as good as every other martial in areas that they excel it, it surpasses most in short strategic bursts.
There's a significant element of risk/reward; yes you could make more attacks, and maybe score a stunning strike, burning a load more Ki in the process, but against some enemies that's unlikely and if they're focused on you anyway then Patient Defense is the better option, as every attack that's missing you is an attack not being directed at an ally.
Now there are certainly areas in which the Monk could be improved, especially with regards to how the game is typically run (in which movement isn't as valuable as it should be, many DM's don't prepare mixed enemy groups with priority targets etc.). There are plenty of threads on what could be improved; Disengage being free for one (so it's actually worth doing, as you're almost always better off using Patient Defence instead), an extra ability score increase at 10th-level (like Rogues get) would help a lot mid-game etc.
But for what monks have now, they are plenty playable and I've yet to have a player in any of my groups not have fun as a monk once they've gotten a feel for what their options are and learned to pace their Ki use (same as casters need to with spell slots).
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To the Bolded above. Sure you can stun 4 times per turn but at 5th level you only get one turn (1 Ki for FoB to get 4 attacks, and 4 points on stunning strikes). Then you are out until a short rest, which can vary from table to table on how many, if any, you get. I doubt you would try 4 times in one turn, unless you were surrounded, but that’s what you said so I am going off of that. At level 20 you can do this for 4 turns before running out.
Edit: grapple is nice but you have to build for it (Astral Self). Unless you are rolling for stats and do very well, STR is usually a dump stat, which you use for grappling. So not always reliable
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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To be fair, you only spend Ki until it succeeds (or you decide to stop spending Ki); you could stun on the first or second try for only 1 or 2 Ki points (no Flurry of Blows required).
It depends a lot on how often you're hitting and how likely the target is to fail the saving throw. Even against a difficult to stun target, giving everyone in the party advantage against it and robbing of it at least an entire round can easily be worth the full 5 Ki, as that's not only extra damage dealt to it, but less damage taken by the party. And compared to a caster with hold person or similar, you're not banking on a single attempt, and worst case you've hopefully still dealt some damage at the very least, rather than wasted an entire turn.
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Which is why I said what I said highlighted in red above. Sure, a situation might dictate using the full 5 Ki, but I don’t think it would be common practice unless the DM gives short rests after each fight.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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I am honestly against this way of playing. If I were the DM and a monk behaved this way I would make it play at least 3 encounters without having time to do even a short rest. At least it learns how to use resources in the right way.
it is true that on some occasions it might be necessary, such as when a spellcaster has activated an insidious spell and making it lose concentration is the best way to interrupt the spell. But if one has to escape because surrounded by enemies, it is much better to use Step of the Wind.
I agree. Using all of your Ki points in one go isn't the best idea. It's nice having the option of a almost guaranteed stun, but situations where you just have to stop that one target (or multiple targets) hopefully isn't that often.
As stated before, the Monk has status-effect attacks. Not much in damage, but it can do a ton of crazy things that can lock an enemy down and/or setup allies for their attacks.
Preferably: You'd run in, hit the enemy (or enemies), stunning them, back up and then let the rest of the party get their hits in.
But in a bad situation, You can run in, hit them with your regular attacks, setup patient defense, and hold your ground.
In a clutch move: You can run right up to a enemy caster on the other side of the map, attack and stun him, and then... hopefully have enough AC or health to tank whatever comes next until you can get out of there or continue to keep the caster in check. Most casters spells would be well within your 60+ movement speed x Step of the Wind. 120ft range is (I think) default for the majority of spell attacks.