Well, we know DDB is glitchy, allows things that are against the rules and doesn’t allow things that are allowed in the rules. DDB isn’t a good measure of RAW or RAI.
Fair but I feel if someone has built their mc character so they get a feat at level on level 19 or 20 I don't even think it they timed it to get 2 epic boons it would be better than getting the level 17, 18, and 20 features of a single class
Initially I thought that a 1 level dip into Fighter was a no brainer (assuming you wouldn't reach level 20 for the Monk's capstone) but now I think it's about the 3rd best choice.
Ranger > Rogue > Fighter.
The Ranger grants an extra skill, two extra hit points, Hunter's Mark (the biggest damage boost by far), Weapon Mastery (the main reason for taking a dip in the first place) and two useful spells.
The Rogue grants two extra skills, two with Expertise, Sneak Attack, Weapon Mastery, Thieves Cant plus one other language.
The Fighter gets Weapon Mastery, Second Wind, two extra hit points and a Fighting Style (which will be presumably TWF which is roughly equivalent to Sneak Attack).
I don't think the various weapon and armor proficiencies are worth anything in this context but the different Saving Throw proficiencies might influence ones decision a little.
If you want damage output the Ranger dip looks to be comfortably on top but if you want to be a little more useful outside of combat the Rogue comes into play.
If you can get access to one of items that buffs or sets your strength score barbarian seems pretty good for multiclass (Gauntlets of Ogre Power are uncommon). You get combinations like Rage and Deflect Attacks or Danger Sense and Evasion. Since you can use strength with your martial arts die you can get Rage Damage and Reckless Attack. Fast Movement makes going 5 or even 6 levels in barbarian faster than going just monk. All the level 3 subclass abilities seem decent. Also weapon mastery like most other good multiclasses.
Assuming you dont go for capstone, gloomstalker or champion/battlemaster are a no brainer especially for a shadow monk. Rogue will grants you nothing except expertise, gloom got one. Unless you want a monk with an invisible magehand for somereason.
The weapon master feat is decent enough to give up on multiclassing, but I think we need a kensei rework.
Hi folks, I'm pretty intent on MC into Ranger 1 or 2 levels. Currently at 2nd Level, looking at Mercy at Lvl 3 (we don't have a healer and I like the vibe). I saw a post earlier here that mentioned taking a MC dip earlier instead of later to really churn out damage. I was planning to jet straight to Monk 5, then dip Ranger at 6. We will level up pretty fast in Tier 1 play. Anyone have insights on dipping earlier (tier 1) vs. a little later (tier 2) vs. way later (tier 3)? We'll probably retire around level 17-18. Not worried about the capstone. TIA.
Hi folks, I'm pretty intent on MC into Ranger 1 or 2 levels. Currently at 2nd Level, looking at Mercy at Lvl 3 (we don't have a healer and I like the vibe). I saw a post earlier here that mentioned taking a MC dip earlier instead of later to really churn out damage. I was planning to jet straight to Monk 5, then dip Ranger at 6. We will level up pretty fast in Tier 1 play. Anyone have insights on dipping earlier (tier 1) vs. a little later (tier 2) vs. way later (tier 3)? We'll probably retire around level 17-18. Not worried about the capstone. TIA.
Are you playing 2014 or 2024 rules?
Typically, you would be best going to level 5 monk first, for extra attack and Ki/Focus points. Depending on what you are planning on getting out of a dip, and how long a campaign will be, will be factors to consider. Since it sounds like this will be a longer campaign, I would probably do 5 monk then dip.
Just my opinion. If you think you will have more fun getting what you are looking for in a dip early, then go for it. You have plenty of time to catch up.
I think when to dip is often determined as to the reason for the dip. Mathematically, waiting til 5 is usually the best play. Sometimes the math has to take a back seat for the reason you dip if it's important to playability.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I’ve been thinking about multi casting monk and warlock. It may still be a bit MAD, since you need at least a charisma of 13. But I was wondering, if pact of the blade could work for a monk, allowing them to use charisma instead of dexterity attacks? I still love the idea of a monk with an at-will Jump spell.
I’ve been thinking about multi casting monk and warlock. It may still be a bit MAD, since you need at least a charisma of 13. But I was wondering, if pact of the blade could work for a monk, allowing them to use charisma instead of dexterity attacks? I still love the idea of a monk with an at-will Jump spell.
Pact of the blades you CAN use CHA for TO-Hit and Damage not that you Must.
IF you get True Strike as a Warlock, you WILL use CHA for To-Hit and Damage for Weapon attack part of Spell.
So you can use pact of the blade for unarmed strikes or flurry of blows?
RAW, pact of the blade either conjures a weapon or bonds to a magical weapon. I don't think it can work with an unarmed strike. It can definitely work with Monk Weapons.
I play with a pure monk and he’s one of our strongest group members. They have so much versatility to offer, which is definitely one of their strengths. The capstone, in my opinion, is THE strongest capstone in the PHB as well. It’s basically a free +4 AC, +2 Atk/Dmg, & +2 save DC. All the subclass, with exception to the Warrior of Mercy, are extremely strong and good at what they do.
elemental monk: Speedy Skirmisher who can AoE blast and still hit other creatures as well as run around the battlefield leaving a trail of damaging (insert element) in its wake.
Open Hand: Lockdown, tanking monk that can control the battlefield and aid his allies by pushing, toppling, addling etc. enemies for advantage and positioning.
shadow monk: Stealthy ninja that can create darkness that moves with him. Teleport to strike foes with advantage and disrupt enemies. (I will admit, this gets spicy with a rogue dip)
so, the monk is definitely strong solo classing. Multiclassing really just offers another playstyle and way for you to build your monk.
You literally don't have a chance at a feat before then
If you are responding to me I mentioned the 4+ general feats because some say a Paladin 15/Sorcerer 4 gets an Epic Boon feat because it only lists the requirements of 19+. I say they can’t because it’s based on class level, not character level
And I’m pointing out that the general feats are worded exactly the same.
Does that mean a Paladin 2/Sorcerer 2 can get a general feat? We know they can’t because, just like 2014, it’s tied to class level not character level. And it is listed on the class table and in the class description. Just like Epic Boons. It’s on the class table and in the class description for the class level 19. Unless I’m completely wrong on this and it’s a big change from how 2014 worked.
How it works at level 20+ I’m not sure. I really didn’t read into it since we typically don’t get to that level.
That is, by definition, a strawman argument. The claim is not that you get the level 19 feature regardless of what class levels you have, it's just that you fulfill the requirement of level 19+ by being level 19+. Say you had a theoretical feature that let you take a feat at level 2. Normally, that would have to be an origin feat, as you are not level 4+. However, if you multiclass 2 levels beforehand, you can take a general feat because you now fulfill the requirement of level 4+.
You literally don't have a chance at a feat before then
If you are responding to me I mentioned the 4+ general feats because some say a Paladin 15/Sorcerer 4 gets an Epic Boon feat because it only lists the requirements of 19+. I say they can’t because it’s based on class level, not character level
And I’m pointing out that the general feats are worded exactly the same.
Does that mean a Paladin 2/Sorcerer 2 can get a general feat? We know they can’t because, just like 2014, it’s tied to class level not character level. And it is listed on the class table and in the class description. Just like Epic Boons. It’s on the class table and in the class description for the class level 19. Unless I’m completely wrong on this and it’s a big change from how 2014 worked.
How it works at level 20+ I’m not sure. I really didn’t read into it since we typically don’t get to that level.
That is, by definition, a strawman argument. The claim is not that you get the level 19 feature regardless of what class levels you have, it's just that you fulfill the requirement of level 19+ by being level 19+. Say you had a theoretical feature that let you take a feat at level 2. Normally, that would have to be an origin feat, as you are not level 4+. However, if you multiclass 2 levels beforehand, you can take a general feat because you now fulfill the requirement of level 4+.
I was basing my comments on how the 2014 ASI’s worked, which, including the 19th level ASI, was tied to class level, not character level. I thought the 2024 feats worked the same. And other than the 19th level one, they do. The feats at 4, 8, 12, 16 are all part of each class and ties to class level. The 19th, I’ve learned, is not. Unlike the 19th level ASI of 2014.
example:
Level 4: Ability Score Improvement
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. You gain this feature again at Barbarian levels 8, 12, and 16.
I was basing my comments on how the 2014 ASI’s worked, which, including the 19th level ASI, was tied to class level, not character level. I thought the 2024 feats worked the same. And other than the 19th level one, they do. The feats at 4, 8, 12, 16 are all part of each class and ties to class level. The 19th, I’ve learned, is not. Unlike the 19th level ASI of 2014.
example:
Level 4: Ability Score Improvement
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. You gain this feature again at Barbarian levels 8, 12, and 16.
Epic Boons are feats and you qualify for them by reaching character level 19+. So, you receive the option to select a feat based your class level, but the feats you can pick is affected by your character level.
I do not think any feats have requirements directly based on class level, but they may have feature requirements that indirectly restrict you by class or class level.
For reference:
Parts of a Feat > Category. A feat is a member of a category, which is noted in the feat. If you’re instructed to choose a feat from a specific category, such as the Origin category, that category must appear under the feat’s name. If you’re instructed to choose a feat and no category is specified, you can choose from any category. If you are told to pick a feat of your choice, you can pick from any feat category as long as you otherwise meet the prerequisite of the feat.
Human > Versatile. You gain an Origin feat of your choice ... This allows you to pick a feat, but it is restricted to Origin category feats only.
Fighter > Fighting Style You have honed your martial prowess and gain a Fighting Style feat of your choice... This allows you to pick a feat, but is restricted to Fighting Style category feats only.
Fighter > Ability Score Improvement You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat (see chapter 5) or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. You gain this feature again at Fighter levels 6, 8, 12, 14, and 16. This allows you to pick any feat, as long as you meet the requirements, Origin, General, Fighting Style, and Epic Boons (but you don't qualify for Epic Boons before character level 19)
Fighter > Epic Boon You gain an Epic Boon feat (see chapter 5) or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. This is called "Epic Boon" but there is nothing locking out Epic Boons until you reach class level 19. However, you can be assumed to meet the requirements for an Epic Boon because every character who is Class level 19 is also at least Character level 19.
I play with a pure monk and he’s one of our strongest group members. They have so much versatility to offer, which is definitely one of their strengths. The capstone, in my opinion, is THE strongest capstone in the PHB as well. It’s basically a free +4 AC, +2 Atk/Dmg, & +2 save DC. All the subclass, with exception to the Warrior of Mercy, are extremely strong and good at what they do.
elemental monk: Speedy Skirmisher who can AoE blast and still hit other creatures as well as run around the battlefield leaving a trail of damaging (insert element) in its wake.
Open Hand: Lockdown, tanking monk that can control the battlefield and aid his allies by pushing, toppling, addling etc. enemies for advantage and positioning.
shadow monk: Stealthy ninja that can create darkness that moves with him. Teleport to strike foes with advantage and disrupt enemies. (I will admit, this gets spicy with a rogue dip)
so, the monk is definitely strong solo classing. Multiclassing really just offers another playstyle and way for you to build your monk.
I think you're forgetting that the cleric capstone is a free wish spell once every 7 days with no necrotic damage or chance to loose the ability to cast it because God is casting it.
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I'm just your everyday dungeon master. Ignore that jar full of souls. And those bones in the corner are just props, don't worry. I'm definitely NOT a lich. Definitely.
Yes, I like beholders. Yes, I curated an exquisite personality for commoner #2864. Yes, my catchphrase is "are you sure?"
I think you're forgetting that the cleric capstone is a free wish spell once every 7 days with no necrotic damage or chance to loose the ability to cast it because God is casting it.
Not quite. However, what does this have to do with Monks, whether they multiclass or not?
Fair but I feel if someone has built their mc character so they get a feat at level on level 19 or 20 I don't even think it they timed it to get 2 epic boons it would be better than getting the level 17, 18, and 20 features of a single class
Initially I thought that a 1 level dip into Fighter was a no brainer (assuming you wouldn't reach level 20 for the Monk's capstone) but now I think it's about the 3rd best choice.
Ranger > Rogue > Fighter.
The Ranger grants an extra skill, two extra hit points, Hunter's Mark (the biggest damage boost by far), Weapon Mastery (the main reason for taking a dip in the first place) and two useful spells.
The Rogue grants two extra skills, two with Expertise, Sneak Attack, Weapon Mastery, Thieves Cant plus one other language.
The Fighter gets Weapon Mastery, Second Wind, two extra hit points and a Fighting Style (which will be presumably TWF which is roughly equivalent to Sneak Attack).
I don't think the various weapon and armor proficiencies are worth anything in this context but the different Saving Throw proficiencies might influence ones decision a little.
If you want damage output the Ranger dip looks to be comfortably on top but if you want to be a little more useful outside of combat the Rogue comes into play.
If you can get access to one of items that buffs or sets your strength score barbarian seems pretty good for multiclass (Gauntlets of Ogre Power are uncommon). You get combinations like Rage and Deflect Attacks or Danger Sense and Evasion. Since you can use strength with your martial arts die you can get Rage Damage and Reckless Attack. Fast Movement makes going 5 or even 6 levels in barbarian faster than going just monk. All the level 3 subclass abilities seem decent. Also weapon mastery like most other good multiclasses.
Assuming you dont go for capstone, gloomstalker or champion/battlemaster are a no brainer especially for a shadow monk.
Rogue will grants you nothing except expertise, gloom got one. Unless you want a monk with an invisible magehand for somereason.
The weapon master feat is decent enough to give up on multiclassing, but I think we need a kensei rework.
Hi folks, I'm pretty intent on MC into Ranger 1 or 2 levels. Currently at 2nd Level, looking at Mercy at Lvl 3 (we don't have a healer and I like the vibe). I saw a post earlier here that mentioned taking a MC dip earlier instead of later to really churn out damage. I was planning to jet straight to Monk 5, then dip Ranger at 6. We will level up pretty fast in Tier 1 play. Anyone have insights on dipping earlier (tier 1) vs. a little later (tier 2) vs. way later (tier 3)? We'll probably retire around level 17-18. Not worried about the capstone. TIA.
Are you playing 2014 or 2024 rules?
Typically, you would be best going to level 5 monk first, for extra attack and Ki/Focus points. Depending on what you are planning on getting out of a dip, and how long a campaign will be, will be factors to consider. Since it sounds like this will be a longer campaign, I would probably do 5 monk then dip.
Just my opinion. If you think you will have more fun getting what you are looking for in a dip early, then go for it. You have plenty of time to catch up.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I think when to dip is often determined as to the reason for the dip. Mathematically, waiting til 5 is usually the best play. Sometimes the math has to take a back seat for the reason you dip if it's important to playability.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Or
Wait till level 4 for Weapon Master Dagger for extra attack with attack action. (And +1 DEX)
For sure. That weapon mastery feat works really well with monks.
Shadow Monk / Gloom Stalker (great combo)
Mercy / Battle Master
Shadow Monk / Land Druid / 1 lvl fighter
are some MC combo I have been tinkering around building
I’ve been thinking about multi casting monk and warlock. It may still be a bit MAD, since you need at least a charisma of 13. But I was wondering, if pact of the blade could work for a monk, allowing them to use charisma instead of dexterity attacks? I still love the idea of a monk with an at-will Jump spell.
Pact of the blades you CAN use CHA for TO-Hit and Damage not that you Must.
IF you get True Strike as a Warlock, you WILL use CHA for To-Hit and Damage for Weapon attack part of Spell.
So you can use pact of the blade for unarmed strikes or flurry of blows?
RAW, pact of the blade either conjures a weapon or bonds to a magical weapon. I don't think it can work with an unarmed strike. It can definitely work with Monk Weapons.
How to add Tooltips.
I play with a pure monk and he’s one of our strongest group members. They have so much versatility to offer, which is definitely one of their strengths. The capstone, in my opinion, is THE strongest capstone in the PHB as well. It’s basically a free +4 AC, +2 Atk/Dmg, & +2 save DC. All the subclass, with exception to the Warrior of Mercy, are extremely strong and good at what they do.
elemental monk: Speedy Skirmisher who can AoE blast and still hit other creatures as well as run around the battlefield leaving a trail of damaging (insert element) in its wake.
Open Hand: Lockdown, tanking monk that can control the battlefield and aid his allies by pushing, toppling, addling etc. enemies for advantage and positioning.
shadow monk: Stealthy ninja that can create darkness that moves with him. Teleport to strike foes with advantage and disrupt enemies. (I will admit, this gets spicy with a rogue dip)
so, the monk is definitely strong solo classing. Multiclassing really just offers another playstyle and way for you to build your monk.
That is, by definition, a strawman argument. The claim is not that you get the level 19 feature regardless of what class levels you have, it's just that you fulfill the requirement of level 19+ by being level 19+. Say you had a theoretical feature that let you take a feat at level 2. Normally, that would have to be an origin feat, as you are not level 4+. However, if you multiclass 2 levels beforehand, you can take a general feat because you now fulfill the requirement of level 4+.
I was basing my comments on how the 2014 ASI’s worked, which, including the 19th level ASI, was tied to class level, not character level. I thought the 2024 feats worked the same. And other than the 19th level one, they do. The feats at 4, 8, 12, 16 are all part of each class and ties to class level. The 19th, I’ve learned, is not. Unlike the 19th level ASI of 2014.
example:
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Epic Boons are feats and you qualify for them by reaching character level 19+. So, you receive the option to select a feat based your class level, but the feats you can pick is affected by your character level.
I do not think any feats have requirements directly based on class level, but they may have feature requirements that indirectly restrict you by class or class level.
For reference:
How to add Tooltips.
I think you're forgetting that the cleric capstone is a free wish spell once every 7 days with no necrotic damage or chance to loose the ability to cast it because God is casting it.
I'm just your everyday dungeon master. Ignore that jar full of souls. And those bones in the corner are just props, don't worry. I'm definitely NOT a lich. Definitely.
Yes, I like beholders. Yes, I curated an exquisite personality for commoner #2864. Yes, my catchphrase is "are you sure?"
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . .-.-.-
Not quite. However, what does this have to do with Monks, whether they multiclass or not?
How to add Tooltips.