One of the reasons many steer clear of multiclassing on a monk is the delay of gaining Ki points.
With the 2024 update and monks being able to regain Focus points with Uncanny Metabolism would you be more likely to MC on your monk character then with the 2014 monk?
We still have the MAD issue with DEX and WIS. And now that Clerics and Druids (WIS MC requirement so a good candidate) don’t get their subclass until 3rd you don’t get as many goodies with a 1-2 level dip in those classes.
Are there other classes that would now make for a good dip in 2024 then did with the 2014 classes?
To answer the first question: Yes. Well, Kinda. Multiclassing with the 2024 monk is definitely going to be much easier than it has ever been. But the new monk also gets so many good features at higher level that I kinda don't want to multiclass. So we're back at square one lol. But Uncanny Metabolism will help dramatically with multiclassing, if you go as far as level 15 into Monk then Perfect Focus makes that even better. Something many don't talk about is that Monk didn't just get a Focus/Ki recharge ability, some of their abilities also became free or less costly. Stunning Strike is by far the biggest change, because it is once per turn players won't feel as pressured to spam it until it works. So you will save a lot more Focus points than you would have otherwise.
As for good class dips for the 2024 Monk, I would say Ranger is a pretty good one. Hunter's mark pairs really well with Monk, and Deflect Attacks will make it so that you have a much easier time maintaining concentration on it than you ever could before. You also get free uses of it, which can really add up over an adventuring day. You also can nab some other spells and grab weapon mastery. Do a two level dip and grab a fighting style and some expertise if you want. Or you could go with Fighter or Barb if you want similar benefits but even more durability. Tactical Mind from Fighter will dramatically increase your skill utility. Danger Sense from Barbarian will make you the king of Dex saves.
It's not a question of "if" with the 2024 Monk. With the 2024 Monk, you HAVE to multiclass. If you do not, you are significantly weaker than any other martial, and any Monk who does multiclass.
Monks are the only martial class without Weapon Mastery, a feature that gives every other martial unlimited use of control and damage-boosting features. Whereas the 2014 Monk and class design was balanced around Monks not needing to spam ki every single turn at low levels, in 2024 the Monk has to spam Discip—sorry, "focus" is more anime—every single turn to keep up with what every other martial can do for free. A one-time "I have all my points back because" means literally nothing when playing more than one or two fights an adventuring day. In fact, Weapon Mastery is more effective than Monk subclass features that give much more limited effects that Weapon Mastery can do every turn—a one-level dip into another martial class is significantly more empowering for any Monk than getting their subclass at 3rd level. And since Monks don't gain access to any meaningful new abilities at higher levels aside from "more damage spam", there's no issue in taking a dip at lower levels that gives them just that, and more, without being tethered to a limited resource.
So there's no question about multiclassing the Monk, because if you don't, you're stuck with a bland, limited martial with nothing to do except attacking and who gets to watch everyone else spam unlimited-use cost-free features once they've inevitably expended their Dis—FOCUS.
I disagree. Monks have a lot more going for them now than the 2014 monk. And a feat can give monks weapon mastery without having to lose out on the capstone, if your campaign is going that far. Also, the changes to unarmed strikes gives options that monks didn’t really have in 2014. Yes, you sacrifice damage for that hit to shove or grapple but I believe since you still hit you could Stunning Strike at the same time if you wanted. And when a 10th level monk is throwing out 5 attacks, using one to grapple or shove (or remove OA, shove further, or prone with Open Hand without losing damage) compared to most martials two or three attacks i think keeps them competitive.
Astral self can now grapple and shove from 10 feet away. They couldn’t before because the arms only allowed unarmed strikes. But grapple and shove are part of unarmed strikes now. (As pointed out by MasterofKi in this thread)
Deflect Attack/Energy basically gives the monk something to do with their reaction every round (most martials can’t say that unless the specifically build for it) if you choose to.
If i was playing only until 12th or 13th level i would probably do a fighter dip for sure but dont think multiclassing for monk is essential.
With the weapon mastery feat the monk can get +1 to dex and take topple (which was added to quarter staff in the last UA) or push (greatclub) which opens up some nice playstyle options that fighters get. Imagine an open hand monk with the push or topple weapon mastery. Combine that with open hand technique and you are pushing and knocking everybody over with every attack. Sounds like fun to me.
There are also some great new versions of feats that work really well with monk and unarmed combat. Tavern brawler (free 5ft push with unarmed strike, re roll 1's on unarmed strike damage dice), grappler (grapple and deal unarmed strike damage once per turn) and charger (extra d8 damage once per turn). I am assuming these feats carry over from the UA.
We have not even seen everything yet. There should be some new magic items for unarmed combat too.
Lots to be excited about for monks even without multiclassing.
This may sound crazy, but what about multi classing monk with warlock. I know it makes it mad. But the invocation other worldly leap would give a monk free access to the jump spell each turn. What a cool image of a monk leaping around the battlefield might be. Thoughts?
This may sound crazy, but what about multi classing monk with warlock. I know it makes it mad. But the invocation other worldly leap would give a monk free access to the jump spell each turn. What a cool image of a monk leaping around the battlefield might be. Thoughts?
They already have a lot of mobility and the increased jump distance with SotW so having to try to get CHA up to MC is a big ask just for some extra jumping. But that’s my opinion
This may sound crazy, but what about multi classing monk with warlock. I know it makes it mad. But the invocation other worldly leap would give a monk free access to the jump spell each turn. What a cool image of a monk leaping around the battlefield might be. Thoughts?
Your going to sacrifice Constitution for Charisma? Because something has to give. Sorry don’t see it myself, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for others.
I think step of the wind might combine with the new jump spell for a 60 foot jump. All you need to do is use the new magic initiate feat to take the jump spell. No multiclass required.
I think starting with Barbarian, maybe 3 levels then switching to Monk might be cool, saving the 4th level Barbarian until level 19 to get an Epic Boon could work. A strength based monk could be interesting. You have 2 ways to calculate unarmored AC from which to chose. Also, getting reckless attacks on your flurry of blows would be incredible. Just a concept that I have been kicking around.
It really depends on what I was trying to do. Monk looks really great as a dip for other non-monk character concepts I have. As for maining monk, and dipping other things? Maybe, but I haven't looked closely enough to see if there's a fit I like.
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I always liked to MC in monk one level : you are self sufficent without weapon, you can use dex with common weapon, common weapon are great to be discreet. no armor is a luxury for a person in disguise, and you have a bonus action that sometimes is unused on other class.
Its a really mechanical but more importantly narrative uplift when building a character.
The opposite is more rare, but the fact there is nothing in the monk class that strenghten the use of weapon is kinda tilting. Monk trope include the use of simple weapon, thats the basic ability, but nothing is made out of it. So sometimes fighter, now I guess a ranger level is kinda better, maybe a lvl 3 fey or gloomy. There are options.
I think starting with Barbarian, maybe 3 levels then switching to Monk might be cool, saving the 4th level Barbarian until level 19 to get an Epic Boon could work. A strength based monk could be interesting. You have 2 ways to calculate unarmored AC from which to chose. Also, getting reckless attacks on your flurry of blows would be incredible. Just a concept that I have been kicking around.
If I read it correctly the 19th level Epic Boon feat is an ASI just like the others and is a class feature on the class tables so just like 2014 19th level ASI/feat you actually need 19 levels in a class. So your multiclass example will never hit 19 in any class (unless you play past 20th) so no Epic Boon.
I did notice they removed the Unarmored Defense restriction. It used to be whichever one you gained first became your only method of calculating AC. But now you can pick and choose, which is nice.
If you look at Feat Description, under category, it says:
" A feat is a member of a category, which is noted in the feat. If you’re instructed to choose a feat from a specific category, such as the Origin category, that category must appear under the feat’s name. If you’re instructed to choose a feat and no category is specified, you can choose from any category."
So, if you are able to get an ASI at character level 19 or 20 by multiclassing, then epic boons are available.
I practice tai chi so warrior of the open hand is something I fantasize about, this is a class that has so much improvement I’m not concerned about fighter or rogue. I like the warlock and cleric, but with the new unarmed strike the monk has more battle field control which makes it more interesting to play so I don’t need to play a spell caster. I have no flavor need to dip in other classes.
As for multiclassing monk? I wouldn’t even dip into fighter, after the buffs in this new class in the ph.
If you look at Feat Description, under category, it says:
" A feat is a member of a category, which is noted in the feat. If you’re instructed to choose a feat from a specific category, such as the Origin category, that category must appear under the feat’s name. If you’re instructed to choose a feat and no category is specified, you can choose from any category."
So, if you are able to get an ASI at character level 19 or 20 by multiclassing, then epic boons are available.
Late response, but you don’t get an ASI at character level 19 or 20. You get it at class level 19 which opens up epic boons. ASI’s have always been class based not character based.
One of the reasons many steer clear of multiclassing on a monk is the delay of gaining Ki points.
With the 2024 update and monks being able to regain Focus points with Uncanny Metabolism would you be more likely to MC on your monk character then with the 2014 monk?
We still have the MAD issue with DEX and WIS. And now that Clerics and Druids (WIS MC requirement so a good candidate) don’t get their subclass until 3rd you don’t get as many goodies with a 1-2 level dip in those classes.
Are there other classes that would now make for a good dip in 2024 then did with the 2014 classes?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
To answer the first question: Yes. Well, Kinda. Multiclassing with the 2024 monk is definitely going to be much easier than it has ever been. But the new monk also gets so many good features at higher level that I kinda don't want to multiclass. So we're back at square one lol. But Uncanny Metabolism will help dramatically with multiclassing, if you go as far as level 15 into Monk then Perfect Focus makes that even better. Something many don't talk about is that Monk didn't just get a Focus/Ki recharge ability, some of their abilities also became free or less costly. Stunning Strike is by far the biggest change, because it is once per turn players won't feel as pressured to spam it until it works. So you will save a lot more Focus points than you would have otherwise.
As for good class dips for the 2024 Monk, I would say Ranger is a pretty good one. Hunter's mark pairs really well with Monk, and Deflect Attacks will make it so that you have a much easier time maintaining concentration on it than you ever could before. You also get free uses of it, which can really add up over an adventuring day. You also can nab some other spells and grab weapon mastery. Do a two level dip and grab a fighting style and some expertise if you want. Or you could go with Fighter or Barb if you want similar benefits but even more durability. Tactical Mind from Fighter will dramatically increase your skill utility. Danger Sense from Barbarian will make you the king of Dex saves.
One level in fighter for two weapon fighting style feat and nick weapon mastery is TOO GOOD TO IGNORE.
I disagree. Monks have a lot more going for them now than the 2014 monk. And a feat can give monks weapon mastery without having to lose out on the capstone, if your campaign is going that far. Also, the changes to unarmed strikes gives options that monks didn’t really have in 2014. Yes, you sacrifice damage for that hit to shove or grapple but I believe since you still hit you could Stunning Strike at the same time if you wanted. And when a 10th level monk is throwing out 5 attacks, using one to grapple or shove (or remove OA, shove further, or prone with Open Hand without losing damage) compared to most martials two or three attacks i think keeps them competitive.
Astral self can now grapple and shove from 10 feet away. They couldn’t before because the arms only allowed unarmed strikes. But grapple and shove are part of unarmed strikes now. (As pointed out by MasterofKi in this thread)
Deflect Attack/Energy basically gives the monk something to do with their reaction every round (most martials can’t say that unless the specifically build for it) if you choose to.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
If i was playing only until 12th or 13th level i would probably do a fighter dip for sure but dont think multiclassing for monk is essential.
With the weapon mastery feat the monk can get +1 to dex and take topple (which was added to quarter staff in the last UA) or push (greatclub) which opens up some nice playstyle options that fighters get. Imagine an open hand monk with the push or topple weapon mastery. Combine that with open hand technique and you are pushing and knocking everybody over with every attack. Sounds like fun to me.
There are also some great new versions of feats that work really well with monk and unarmed combat. Tavern brawler (free 5ft push with unarmed strike, re roll 1's on unarmed strike damage dice), grappler (grapple and deal unarmed strike damage once per turn) and charger (extra d8 damage once per turn). I am assuming these feats carry over from the UA.
We have not even seen everything yet. There should be some new magic items for unarmed combat too.
Lots to be excited about for monks even without multiclassing.
Monks can absolutely do work without a weapon mastery. Heck the elements monk doesn't want to use weapons period.
Agreed. Also, Warrior of the Open Hand + Tavern Brawler + Grappler is doing all sorts of "weapon master" like Shenanigans, barehanded.
But then you miss out on the whopping +4 to your Dex and Wis you would otherwise get at 20th level.
This may sound crazy, but what about multi classing monk with warlock. I know it makes it mad. But the invocation other worldly leap would give a monk free access to the jump spell each turn. What a cool image of a monk leaping around the battlefield might be. Thoughts?
They already have a lot of mobility and the increased jump distance with SotW so having to try to get CHA up to MC is a big ask just for some extra jumping. But that’s my opinion
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That’s if you’re done at level 20…you can advance past 20 and get it at level 21🤤
Your going to sacrifice Constitution for Charisma? Because something has to give. Sorry don’t see it myself, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for others.
I think step of the wind might combine with the new jump spell for a 60 foot jump. All you need to do is use the new magic initiate feat to take the jump spell. No multiclass required.
I think starting with Barbarian, maybe 3 levels then switching to Monk might be cool, saving the 4th level Barbarian until level 19 to get an Epic Boon could work. A strength based monk could be interesting. You have 2 ways to calculate unarmored AC from which to chose. Also, getting reckless attacks on your flurry of blows would be incredible. Just a concept that I have been kicking around.
It really depends on what I was trying to do. Monk looks really great as a dip for other non-monk character concepts I have. As for maining monk, and dipping other things? Maybe, but I haven't looked closely enough to see if there's a fit I like.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I always liked to MC in monk one level :
you are self sufficent without weapon,
you can use dex with common weapon, common weapon are great to be discreet.
no armor is a luxury for a person in disguise,
and you have a bonus action that sometimes is unused on other class.
Its a really mechanical but more importantly narrative uplift when building a character.
The opposite is more rare, but the fact there is nothing in the monk class that strenghten the use of weapon is kinda tilting.
Monk trope include the use of simple weapon, thats the basic ability, but nothing is made out of it.
So sometimes fighter, now I guess a ranger level is kinda better, maybe a lvl 3 fey or gloomy. There are options.
If I read it correctly the 19th level Epic Boon feat is an ASI just like the others and is a class feature on the class tables so just like 2014 19th level ASI/feat you actually need 19 levels in a class. So your multiclass example will never hit 19 in any class (unless you play past 20th) so no Epic Boon.
I did notice they removed the Unarmored Defense restriction. It used to be whichever one you gained first became your only method of calculating AC. But now you can pick and choose, which is nice.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
If you look at Feat Description, under category, it says:
" A feat is a member of a category, which is noted in the feat. If you’re instructed to choose a feat from a specific category, such as the Origin category, that category must appear under the feat’s name. If you’re instructed to choose a feat and no category is specified, you can choose from any category."
So, if you are able to get an ASI at character level 19 or 20 by multiclassing, then epic boons are available.
I practice tai chi so warrior of the open hand is something I fantasize about, this is a class that has so much improvement I’m not concerned about fighter or rogue. I like the warlock and cleric, but with the new unarmed strike the monk has more battle field control which makes it more interesting to play so I don’t need to play a spell caster. I have no flavor need to dip in other classes.
As for multiclassing monk? I wouldn’t even dip into fighter, after the buffs in this new class in the ph.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
Late response, but you don’t get an ASI at character level 19 or 20. You get it at class level 19 which opens up epic boons. ASI’s have always been class based not character based.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?