Sure, but you then sacrifice your ability to use Step of the Wind (to leap across a chasm?) and more importantly Diamond Soul (to have a second chance on a nasty trap) out of combat.
It is the main reason my homebrew handling is "if you have 3 or less, you get up to 4", to keep as close to the original but iron out a couple of the kinks.
Great read.. I'm new to the forum, and a few months ago started playing a Monk (open hand) for the first time. My monk is now level 8, and i love how it plays.
I have been looking down the road, and found that level 20 was very underwhelming, so i am considering multiclassing 1 level to get something that would complement the monk's current play style. I don't want tons of fight spells, because it would be worthless. I fight melee, and i rely on good defense.
My thought was to go 1 level into a Light cleric.. mostly for the reaction opportunity (my wisdom is +4 right now) and for a few utility cantrips. Maybe a fight spell from long range too.
The debate is just to know when to actually get that level. :)
I think Rogue for Expertise is the way to go if you want to do a 1 level dip. At level 20, that would be +5 to two of your skills (likely stealth and perception, but insight would be good if your campaign isn't as combat heavy), and an additional skill from the Rogue list.
Additionally, if you go for a second level in Rogue, you do lose your Monk 19 ASI, which is a big deal, but you pick up Cunning Action, which could save you a bunch of ki points depending on how often you find yourself using Step of the Wind.
Setting Ki to 4 when rolling Initiative if you have less than 4 is an improvement but it's not enough in my opinion.
Level 20 is the pinnacle of your chosen path in life. You are a master and the level 20 skill should reflect this for every class. Every line of thinking toward the final skill should start here.
Increasing every ability score to 20 is excessive and one guaranteed Ki per turn may also be a bit too much for a short rest currency. If you aren't opposed to extra dice rolls, perhaps something like "At the end of your turn roll a d6, on a 5-6 regain 1 Ki point" would be better.
Just my current thoughts. I have many levels to go but I have been considering multiclassing or homebrewing after looking ahead because Monk level 20 as is, is unacceptable, and in direct conflict with other Monk skills that encourage you to always keep some Ki on hand.
I agree with the opinion expressed by the majority here that the monk capstone as written is almost useless in most situations. Seeing some really good home rule fixes on this thread, though - I think my favorite is returning to the playtest version of gaining 1 Ki point per turn... to me, it just feels adequately powerful for the level, and independent from rare, specific circumstances.
But, multi-classing is another great way of dodging the disappointment, as several others have pointed out. I was really intrigued reading about the War Mage multiclass, and would be curious to hear more about how it feels and plays in practice! I am currently running a wood elven open hand monk whom I recently multi-classed into Bladesinger, and it's been a really fun combination to play! Her Intelligence modifier isn't high enough to make spells with saving throws or attack rolls worthwhile, but casting offensive spells is a waste of a monk's action economy anyway. However, getting the AC boost and even more speed from Bladesong, and having access to reaction spells like Shield and Absorb Elements has been a really nice synergy, not to mention added survivability to my monk. In addition, all the ritual spells add fun utilitarian versatility, with the flavor of the Bladesinger wizard turning out to be a really gratifying natural development for my bookish monk, embracing her elven roots.
'At 20th level, you have become so attuned to the power of ki that you can offset costs incurred by your ki abilities. An amount of times equal to your Wisdom modifier per long rest, you can choose to use a ki ability without expending ki points. This ability can only be used in this way as if the lowest amount of ki has been expended on it. (i.e a Four Elements Monk could cast Fireball, but only at 3rd level).'
Since Monks get their capstone ability at level 14, they don't need another super-awesome ability at level 20. Now, can we let this old thread lie?
You mean level 18, when monks get the ability to be invisible and resistant to damage for almost all of their fights. The level 20 ability is just a little bit more reliability to that.
Since Monks get their capstone ability at level 14, they don't need another super-awesome ability at level 20. Now, can we let this old thread lie?
You mean level 18, when monks get the ability to be invisible and resistant to damage for almost all of their fights. The level 20 ability is just a little bit more reliability to that.
No, I mean at level 14 (compare it to Artificers' level 20 ability) but you do have a good point. Monk's at level 18 get another fantastic ability. Which of course means that there's really no need for them to get yet another one at level 20. :P
Because the current capstone power for reaching level 20 as a Monk is not very satisfying compared to other classes.
Because they don't need it because they already got a bunch of cool and amazing powers. Didn't we go through this already? Bards' capstone is also kind of meh. Take a level of Rogue if you want something fancier.
Because the current capstone power for reaching level 20 as a Monk is not very satisfying compared to other classes.
Many capstones are pretty underwhelming. This doesn't seem any better or worse than Bard, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard, warlock.
Fighter, Barbarian offer solid consistent help and druid is just ridiculously powerful for an already crazy powerful class. Paladin/cleric abilities are solid but not usable that often.
i ended up getting 1 level of light cleric. It was very thematic as my monk's past was completely not what he himself thought, and he was always hanging out with a cleric which helped him discover more about his powers and his past.
I like to play things very thematically and although getting a level in rogue or something else might have been better for stats, i chose this for thematic reasons. Not that adding to his already high AC with that reaction blinding light isn't great :)
Sure, but you then sacrifice your ability to use Step of the Wind (to leap across a chasm?) and more importantly Diamond Soul (to have a second chance on a nasty trap) out of combat.
It is the main reason my homebrew handling is "if you have 3 or less, you get up to 4", to keep as close to the original but iron out a couple of the kinks.
It still feels underwhelming, mind. :p
I think Rogue for Expertise is the way to go if you want to do a 1 level dip. At level 20, that would be +5 to two of your skills (likely stealth and perception, but insight would be good if your campaign isn't as combat heavy), and an additional skill from the Rogue list.
Additionally, if you go for a second level in Rogue, you do lose your Monk 19 ASI, which is a big deal, but you pick up Cunning Action, which could save you a bunch of ki points depending on how often you find yourself using Step of the Wind.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
My monk has reached level 20 in our main campaign and we've discussed a few options for the capstone. I came up with the following changes:
Setting Ki to 4 when rolling Initiative if you have less than 4 is an improvement but it's not enough in my opinion.
Level 20 is the pinnacle of your chosen path in life. You are a master and the level 20 skill should reflect this for every class. Every line of thinking toward the final skill should start here.
Increasing every ability score to 20 is excessive and one guaranteed Ki per turn may also be a bit too much for a short rest currency. If you aren't opposed to extra dice rolls, perhaps something like "At the end of your turn roll a d6, on a 5-6 regain 1 Ki point" would be better.
Just my current thoughts. I have many levels to go but I have been considering multiclassing or homebrewing after looking ahead because Monk level 20 as is, is unacceptable, and in direct conflict with other Monk skills that encourage you to always keep some Ki on hand.
I agree with the opinion expressed by the majority here that the monk capstone as written is almost useless in most situations. Seeing some really good home rule fixes on this thread, though - I think my favorite is returning to the playtest version of gaining 1 Ki point per turn... to me, it just feels adequately powerful for the level, and independent from rare, specific circumstances.
But, multi-classing is another great way of dodging the disappointment, as several others have pointed out. I was really intrigued reading about the War Mage multiclass, and would be curious to hear more about how it feels and plays in practice! I am currently running a wood elven open hand monk whom I recently multi-classed into Bladesinger, and it's been a really fun combination to play! Her Intelligence modifier isn't high enough to make spells with saving throws or attack rolls worthwhile, but casting offensive spells is a waste of a monk's action economy anyway. However, getting the AC boost and even more speed from Bladesong, and having access to reaction spells like Shield and Absorb Elements has been a really nice synergy, not to mention added survivability to my monk. In addition, all the ritual spells add fun utilitarian versatility, with the flavor of the Bladesinger wizard turning out to be a really gratifying natural development for my bookish monk, embracing her elven roots.
I think my homebrew version of this would be:
Ki Mastery
'At 20th level, you have become so attuned to the power of ki that you can offset costs incurred by your ki abilities. An amount of times equal to your Wisdom modifier per long rest, you can choose to use a ki ability without expending ki points. This ability can only be used in this way as if the lowest amount of ki has been expended on it. (i.e a Four Elements Monk could cast Fireball, but only at 3rd level).'
Since Monks get their capstone ability at level 14, they don't need another super-awesome ability at level 20. Now, can we let this old thread lie?
You mean level 18, when monks get the ability to be invisible and resistant to damage for almost all of their fights. The level 20 ability is just a little bit more reliability to that.
No, I mean at level 14 (compare it to Artificers' level 20 ability) but you do have a good point. Monk's at level 18 get another fantastic ability. Which of course means that there's really no need for them to get yet another one at level 20. :P
How about this. The monk's Martial Arts damage dice increments as they level:
(table excerpt)
16th
+5
1d8
16
+25 ft.
Ability Score Improvement
17th
+6
1d10
17
+25 ft.
Monastic Tradition Feature
18th
+6
1d10
18
+30 ft.
Empty Body
We change it that at level 20 the monk gets 1d20 instead of 1d10 ? Call it "Fist of the Angry God"
Cry HAVOC! and let slip the mustelids of war...
Why? Like it has already been mentioned, Monks get loads of really powerful abilities as it is.
Because the current capstone power for reaching level 20 as a Monk is not very satisfying compared to other classes.
Cry HAVOC! and let slip the mustelids of war...
A d20 is a bit much.....but a d12 could work.
I was thinking along the same lines but wanted more than a d12. Maybe d12+6 ? Honestly I kind of like the d20 and the effect would be random.
Cry HAVOC! and let slip the mustelids of war...
Because they don't need it because they already got a bunch of cool and amazing powers. Didn't we go through this already? Bards' capstone is also kind of meh. Take a level of Rogue if you want something fancier.
Actually, that's a pretty cool idea! It would be powerful, which level 20 should be, but the randomness keeps it both in check and fun, in my opinion.
Many capstones are pretty underwhelming. This doesn't seem any better or worse than Bard, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard, warlock.
Fighter, Barbarian offer solid consistent help and druid is just ridiculously powerful for an already crazy powerful class. Paladin/cleric abilities are solid but not usable that often.
i ended up getting 1 level of light cleric. It was very thematic as my monk's past was completely not what he himself thought, and he was always hanging out with a cleric which helped him discover more about his powers and his past.
I like to play things very thematically and although getting a level in rogue or something else might have been better for stats, i chose this for thematic reasons. Not that adding to his already high AC with that reaction blinding light isn't great :)
So another idea occurred to me for a Lvl 20 Monk class capstone. What do you think about at level 20 all damage die rolls get rolled with advantage?
Cry HAVOC! and let slip the mustelids of war...