Spears are my favourite weapon, and I love the Storm-light Archive book series, so I decided to make a character inspired by Kaladin (from that series). Besides being a dexterous (not strong) spear fighter, with no armour, there is also some magic at play, so I planned on doing a Monk (Kensei) and Fighter (Eldritch Knight) multi-class as I wanted a magically appearing spear (and EK is better for this than Warlock). Unfortunately I didn’t foresee how Levels 1-4 (currently 3) would be long and bland until my plan starts to come together... therefore I would like to ask advice on ordering and any tweaks people may suggest.
Kaladin is a Mark of the Passage Human (Sailor background, also we roll for stats and hit dice)
(Could be convinced to take Gust, Lightning Lure or another cantrip instead of Shocking Grasp, but I do like the touch interaction with my Hawk familiar)
Level 5 (Monk 2)
Level 6 (Monk 3 - Kensei Monk)
Spear & Sling (attaching the sling to the spear)
Level 7 (Monk 4)
Take Mobile Feat (works with Booming Blade)
Level 8 (Monk 5 / Fighter 3) - Finally Extra Attack, but it does make Booming Blade much more situational.
Advice on levelling order, or feedback would be greatly appreciated... Also for what to do after Lv8
I would like advice on a 18dex 16wis Mark of the Passage Human with Sailor background
Hexblade/Pact of the Blade Warlock feels potentially appropriate for the ability to have a morphing weapon for your Shard Blade stand in, and a way to get your hands on the ability to fly through the Warlock spell list with a 5 level investment. Drawback is you'd probably want to invest in Charisma alongside Wis/Dex if you keep Monk, Int for your EK, and presumably a half decent Con. Having a Patron also seems appropriate for your Syl stand in.
Storm Sorcerer also nets you Fly, and adds in Shadow Blade at a much earlier level than the 7 level investment the EK would require (Though you'd need to get a feat for the familiar instead) There's also the potential for Reverse Gravity, but that's a lot of investment for a reference. Some of the class features could work for a Windrunner reference, but the most appropriate (Wind soul for making squires) comes way too late
Tempest Domain Cleric could be kind of interesting to add in some healing to represent Kaladins medical training and regenerative ability (Though the healer feat would probably be good enough for that) and pairs in with the Monks Wisdom stat. Thunderbolt strike could be good for a Surge Binding stand in, and Stormborn is appropriate in name and function, but comes far too late.
Tried to mark things as spoilers for people still reading the books!
Not got any particular levels in mind, but those would be my quick thoughts!
I would do the Fighter/monk Start Monk to get dex for spear and wis to ac. Then into fighter like you were planning. then continue in fighter til level 5 for your second attack, only 1 level later then you normally would. then 2nd level into monk for +10' movement and Ki for dashing stuff. Then back to fighter. so F6/M2 at level 8. after that focus on fighter more and may be end up F16/M4 for the ASI or F18/M2.
Look into the polearm master feat. shocking grasp is great but will use your int modifier for attack rolls, so yeah.
I'm curious why you want Kensei monk? Spear is already a monk weapon, you could take open hand, long death or (don't hate me) four elements.
My current plan is to level in the following order: Monk 1 -> Fighter 1-3 -> Monk 2-5-> Fighter 4 -> Monk 6-16
There are two problems with this order that people will see immediately, I have to wait until lv7 for my first ASI and lv8 until I get Extra Attack. However my reasoning is a compromise between character concept, utility and optimization:
Monk 1: Dexterity Spear, Martial Arts & Unarmored (mostly for concept: to start off as an unarmored dexterous spear fighter)
Fighter 3: Familiar, Shield Spell & Weapon Bond (mix of utility: spells, optimization: Fighting Style & Action Surge, and concept: magic using dex spear fighter with Hawk familiar)
Monk 5: Kensei, Feat, Stun & Extra Attack (optimization)
Fighter 4: Feat (optimization)
Controversially though, for my first three ASIs I want to go all Feats: Mobile(Level 7) -> Polearm Master(Level 9) -> Warcaster(Level 12)
These three combined allow for a really cool and unique play-style which is also really effective: Ducking in and out of range, Stunning Strike to enemies next to allies and Booming Blade (rarely) to isolated enemies. Then at the end of my turn, with my ridiculous movement - positioning myself in base contact with ranged foes or out of contact but between melee foes and my allies - then Booming Blade opportunity attack... I think this playstyle is powerful and fun enough to forgo the three ASI's which would have brought me up to 20dex & 20wis
What do you think?
I have time to deliberate as my Character is still level 3 (Monk 1/ Fighter 2)
You can't flurry of blows if you use your action to cast booming blade. There's alot of actions competing against each other. I think monks best option is to use stunning strike. The best way to abuse booming blade is Swashbuckler rogue with magic initiate or a level warlock. Swashbucklers get free disengage after attacking and you can bonus action dash without using ki.
I am aware of Booming Blade clashing with both the normal Martial Arts BA Attack and Flurry of Blows.
However, my build had plenty of other things to do with a Bonus Action, if the situation calls for it: Action Surge (thus still able to use BA), Misty Step (Mark of Passage), Summoning weapon with Weapon Bond (EK), Dodge/ Dash (1 Ki) or Second Wind (Fighter healing). I believe that this is enough to completely negate the inefficiency of using Booming Blade especially when it is used when it will lock down or severely damage.
Anyway, Booming Blade will be more commonly used with my build for a Held Action (early levels) or Reaction (later on).
What other actions are competing against each other?
Taking all the feats and spreading out the spellcasting with eldritch knight with monk may feel really weak as you get to the mid tier of play level 5 to level 10ish and after you may feel ******. Like yes you get action surge once per short rest but I don't think it saves this build. Hey if you have fun with it more power to you. Personally I think Fighter/Rogue for booming blade shenanigans would be more optimal as they have a lot of synergy and you can squeeze out extra ASI's to help with stats and feats that you want. Swashbuckler rogue would even eliminate the need for mobile feat as its built into the class. I think you are investing a lot of your character into a strategy that gives you a strong reaction ability but is easily countered by being swarmed by enemies. I thought long and hard about a similiar build that incorporated spell sniper booming blade with polearm master feat so you can hit with a ranged booming blade as a reaction as they approached. Ultimately I felt like I wasted my potential in the character for a gimmick that got old quick. Just my opinion you can take it or leave it. Good luck with the build!
I feel like multiclassing is almost always inferior to single class. Also, I find planning out classes to 20th level to be generally fruitless. Think about levels 1-6 or 8 and then worry about where to go from there. You may well change your mind (or the campaign may end).
Is there a reason why you need dex spear? If you're gonna be a dex fighter, why not use a rapier? If you want to call it a spear in-game... that should be totally fine?
You: Hey DM, I can like, just use a rapier, right? DM: Yeah.... You: Could I reskin it as a spear in-game, zero stat change, just 'cause I think it would be cool? DM: Totally doesn't matter to game balance, so, sure, why not?
Then the only thing you're missing is the monk's unarmored defense... but that's only 1 AC difference from Studded Leather. And it would mean you don't need to put that 16 into wisdom.
Thank you both, yes I do like this character for the concept but I'm not sure that a general rule of multiclassing being weaker is consistent.
Level 3 (current) – Multiclass seems stronger
Straight Monk:
3 Ki
+10ft Movement
Kensei Weapons (+2 ac but only if I only punch)
Deflect Missiles (Ribbon Ability mostly)
Monk 1/ Fighter 2
2 d10 hit dice
Mariner Fighting Style (+1 ac)
Second Wind
Action Surge
Level 4 – Multiclass is way stronger
Straight Monk
4 Ki
ASI: Mobile Feat
Slow Fall
Monk 1/ Fighter 3
Shield Spell, Familiar etc.
Weapon Bond (Ribbon Ability mostly)
Level 5 – Straight Monk becomes stronger as of level 5 because it is a strong monk level
Straight Monk
5 Ki
Extra Attack
Stunning Strike
Monk 2/ Fighter 3
3 levels behind (picking up 2 Ki & 10ft movement)
Booming Blade usable - 4d8 damage on a held action/ disengage
Level 6 – With Kensei Weapons, Mulitclass is much more tanky, but less damaging
Straight Monk
6 Ki
Fist and Weapons Magical
+5ft movement
Monk 3/ Fighter 3
3 levels behind (picking up Kensei Weapons)
Level 7 – After level 5 Monk stops getting big damage boosts, but rather gradual increase alongside utility/survivability. I think the Multiclass is just a little worse here
Straight Monk
Evasion & Stillness of Mind
Monk 4/ Fighter 3
Mobile Feat
Level 8 – I believe that the Multiclass overtakes Straight Monk again here... and stays ahead.
Straight Monk
Polearm Master Feat
Monk 5/ Fighter 3
Extra Attack & Stunning Strike
As of level 8: Straight Monk: 17ac, Mobile and Polearm Master Feats and more Ki. Whereas Multiclass: 18ac, action surge, Mobile Feat (Polearm next level), magic but less Ki... so yeah I think the multiclass is better, but yes it is weaker at levels 5-7
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
Thank you both, yes I do like this character for the concept but I'm not sure that a general rule of multiclassing being weaker is consistent.
Level 3 (current) – Multiclass seems stronger
Straight Monk:
3 Ki
+10ft Movement
Kensei Weapons (+2 ac but only if I only punch)
Deflect Missiles (Ribbon Ability mostly)
Monk 1/ Fighter 2
2 d10 hit dice
Mariner Fighting Style (+1 ac)
Second Wind
Action Surge
Level 4 – Multiclass is way stronger
Straight Monk
4 Ki
ASI: Mobile Feat
Slow Fall
Monk 1/ Fighter 3
Shield Spell, Familiar etc.
Weapon Bond (Ribbon Ability mostly)
Level 5 – Straight Monk becomes stronger as of level 5 because it is a strong monk level
Straight Monk
5 Ki
Extra Attack
Stunning Strike
Monk 2/ Fighter 3
3 levels behind (picking up 2 Ki & 10ft movement)
Booming Blade usable - 4d8 damage on a held action/ disengage
Level 6 – With Kensei Weapons, Mulitclass is much more tanky, but less damaging
Straight Monk
6 Ki
Fist and Weapons Magical
+5ft movement
Monk 3/ Fighter 3
3 levels behind (picking up Kensei Weapons)
Level 7 – After level 5 Monk stops getting big damage boosts, but rather gradual increase alongside utility/survivability. I think the Multiclass is just a little worse here
Straight Monk
Evasion & Stillness of Mind
Monk 4/ Fighter 3
Mobile Feat
Level 8 – I believe that the Multiclass overtakes Straight Monk again here... and stays ahead.
Straight Monk
Polearm Master Feat
Monk 5/ Fighter 3
Extra Attack & Stunning Strike
As of level 8: Straight Monk: 17ac, Mobile and Polearm Master Feats and more Ki. Whereas Multiclass: 18ac, action surge, Mobile Feat (Polearm next level), magic but less Ki... so yeah I think the multiclass is better, but yes it is weaker at levels 5-7
How are you getting 4d8 at level 5 for held action/disengage? And yes multiclassing can be way more powerful depending on how its planned.
Booming Blade usable - 4d8 damage on a held action/ disengage
How are you getting 4d8 at level 5 for held action/disengage? And yes multiclassing can be way more powerful depending on how its planned.
Disengage from 5ft combat and stand between enemy and allies/ any other opportunity to hold an action when you think an enemy will approach (around a corner etc.) Then hold action Booming Blade for when an enemy steps into range with my spear held in two hands...
Spear does 1d8+4 and Booming Blade does another 1d8 Thunder damage... then because the enemy is moving (same as Polearm Master & Warcaster) they take an extra 2d8 Thunder damage immediately, so 4d8+4
FWIW I was talking straight fighter, not monk. Monk is generally weaker than fighter (even though I like monks).
See I think that is swing and roundabouts, Fighter does more damage sure, but Monk helps out your party more (especially if you already have a frontline Fighter, which I do).
I’m curious now if I should pick up Green-Flame Blade instead of Light as my other Cantrip, I think I’ll use it less than Booming Blade but as both are situational I could be giving myself more options (my Spellcasting Modifier isn’t high though... 10int).
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
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Original Post:
Spears are my favourite weapon, and I love the Storm-light Archive book series, so I decided to make a character inspired by Kaladin (from that series). Besides being a dexterous (not strong) spear fighter, with no armour, there is also some magic at play, so I planned on doing a Monk (Kensei) and Fighter (Eldritch Knight) multi-class as I wanted a magically appearing spear (and EK is better for this than Warlock). Unfortunately I didn’t foresee how Levels 1-4 (currently 3) would be long and bland until my plan starts to come together... therefore I would like to ask advice on ordering and any tweaks people may suggest.
Kaladin is a Mark of the Passage Human (Sailor background, also we roll for stats and hit dice)
12 (Str) 18 (Dex) 14 (Con) 10 (Int) 16 (Wis) 8 (Cha)
Monk 1 / Fighter 2 (Monk as the starting class, but I want to get to EK as fast as possible)... only choice here being the Mariner Fighting Style (UA)
My current plan, up to level 8 is as follows:
Level 4 (Fighter 3 - Eldritch Knight)
Booming Blade, Shocking Grasp, Shield (1), Absorb Elements (1), Find Familiar (1)
(Could be convinced to take Gust, Lightning Lure or another cantrip instead of Shocking Grasp, but I do like the touch interaction with my Hawk familiar)
Level 5 (Monk 2)
Level 6 (Monk 3 - Kensei Monk)
Spear & Sling (attaching the sling to the spear)
Level 7 (Monk 4)
Take Mobile Feat (works with Booming Blade)
Level 8 (Monk 5 / Fighter 3) - Finally Extra Attack, but it does make Booming Blade much more situational.
Advice on levelling order, or feedback would be greatly appreciated... Also for what to do after Lv8
I would like advice on a 18dex 16wis Mark of the Passage Human with Sailor background
My plan: Monk 1 -> Fighter 1-3 (Eldritch Knight) -> Monk 2-5 (Kensei Monk) -> Fighter 4 -> Monk 6-16
More details on my third post below...
Hexblade/Pact of the Blade Warlock feels potentially appropriate for the ability to have a morphing weapon for your Shard Blade stand in, and a way to get your hands on the ability to fly through the Warlock spell list with a 5 level investment. Drawback is you'd probably want to invest in Charisma alongside Wis/Dex if you keep Monk, Int for your EK, and presumably a half decent Con. Having a Patron also seems appropriate for your Syl stand in.
Storm Sorcerer also nets you Fly, and adds in Shadow Blade at a much earlier level than the 7 level investment the EK would require (Though you'd need to get a feat for the familiar instead) There's also the potential for Reverse Gravity, but that's a lot of investment for a reference. Some of the class features could work for a Windrunner reference, but the most appropriate (Wind soul for making squires) comes way too late
Tempest Domain Cleric could be kind of interesting to add in some healing to represent Kaladins medical training and regenerative ability (Though the healer feat would probably be good enough for that) and pairs in with the Monks Wisdom stat. Thunderbolt strike could be good for a Surge Binding stand in, and Stormborn is appropriate in name and function, but comes far too late.
Tried to mark things as spoilers for people still reading the books!
Not got any particular levels in mind, but those would be my quick thoughts!
I would do the Fighter/monk Start Monk to get dex for spear and wis to ac. Then into fighter like you were planning. then continue in fighter til level 5 for your second attack, only 1 level later then you normally would. then 2nd level into monk for +10' movement and Ki for dashing stuff. Then back to fighter. so F6/M2 at level 8. after that focus on fighter more and may be end up F16/M4 for the ASI or F18/M2.
Look into the polearm master feat. shocking grasp is great but will use your int modifier for attack rolls, so yeah.
I'm curious why you want Kensei monk? Spear is already a monk weapon, you could take open hand, long death or (don't hate me) four elements.
My current plan is to level in the following order: Monk 1 -> Fighter 1-3 -> Monk 2-5 -> Fighter 4 -> Monk 6-16
There are two problems with this order that people will see immediately, I have to wait until lv7 for my first ASI and lv8 until I get Extra Attack. However my reasoning is a compromise between character concept, utility and optimization:
Monk 1: Dexterity Spear, Martial Arts & Unarmored (mostly for concept: to start off as an unarmored dexterous spear fighter)
Fighter 3: Familiar, Shield Spell & Weapon Bond (mix of utility: spells, optimization: Fighting Style & Action Surge, and concept: magic using dex spear fighter with Hawk familiar)
Monk 5: Kensei, Feat, Stun & Extra Attack (optimization)
Fighter 4: Feat (optimization)
Controversially though, for my first three ASIs I want to go all Feats: Mobile (Level 7) -> Polearm Master (Level 9) -> Warcaster (Level 12)
These three combined allow for a really cool and unique play-style which is also really effective: Ducking in and out of range, Stunning Strike to enemies next to allies and Booming Blade (rarely) to isolated enemies. Then at the end of my turn, with my ridiculous movement - positioning myself in base contact with ranged foes or out of contact but between melee foes and my allies - then Booming Blade opportunity attack... I think this playstyle is powerful and fun enough to forgo the three ASI's which would have brought me up to 20dex & 20wis
What do you think?
I have time to deliberate as my Character is still level 3 (Monk 1/ Fighter 2)
You can't flurry of blows if you use your action to cast booming blade. There's alot of actions competing against each other. I think monks best option is to use stunning strike. The best way to abuse booming blade is Swashbuckler rogue with magic initiate or a level warlock. Swashbucklers get free disengage after attacking and you can bonus action dash without using ki.
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
I am aware of Booming Blade clashing with both the normal Martial Arts BA Attack and Flurry of Blows.
However, my build had plenty of other things to do with a Bonus Action, if the situation calls for it: Action Surge (thus still able to use BA), Misty Step (Mark of Passage), Summoning weapon with Weapon Bond (EK), Dodge/ Dash (1 Ki) or Second Wind (Fighter healing). I believe that this is enough to completely negate the inefficiency of using Booming Blade especially when it is used when it will lock down or severely damage.
Anyway, Booming Blade will be more commonly used with my build for a Held Action (early levels) or Reaction (later on).
What other actions are competing against each other?
Taking all the feats and spreading out the spellcasting with eldritch knight with monk may feel really weak as you get to the mid tier of play level 5 to level 10ish and after you may feel ******. Like yes you get action surge once per short rest but I don't think it saves this build. Hey if you have fun with it more power to you. Personally I think Fighter/Rogue for booming blade shenanigans would be more optimal as they have a lot of synergy and you can squeeze out extra ASI's to help with stats and feats that you want. Swashbuckler rogue would even eliminate the need for mobile feat as its built into the class. I think you are investing a lot of your character into a strategy that gives you a strong reaction ability but is easily countered by being swarmed by enemies. I thought long and hard about a similiar build that incorporated spell sniper booming blade with polearm master feat so you can hit with a ranged booming blade as a reaction as they approached. Ultimately I felt like I wasted my potential in the character for a gimmick that got old quick. Just my opinion you can take it or leave it. Good luck with the build!
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
I feel like multiclassing is almost always inferior to single class. Also, I find planning out classes to 20th level to be generally fruitless. Think about levels 1-6 or 8 and then worry about where to go from there. You may well change your mind (or the campaign may end).
Is there a reason why you need dex spear? If you're gonna be a dex fighter, why not use a rapier? If you want to call it a spear in-game... that should be totally fine?
You: Hey DM, I can like, just use a rapier, right?
DM: Yeah....
You: Could I reskin it as a spear in-game, zero stat change, just 'cause I think it would be cool?
DM: Totally doesn't matter to game balance, so, sure, why not?
Then the only thing you're missing is the monk's unarmored defense... but that's only 1 AC difference from Studded Leather. And it would mean you don't need to put that 16 into wisdom.
Just thoughts....
Thank you both, yes I do like this character for the concept but I'm not sure that a general rule of multiclassing being weaker is consistent.
Level 3 (current) – Multiclass seems stronger
Level 4 – Multiclass is way stronger
Level 5 – Straight Monk becomes stronger as of level 5 because it is a strong monk level
Level 6 – With Kensei Weapons, Mulitclass is much more tanky, but less damaging
Level 7 – After level 5 Monk stops getting big damage boosts, but rather gradual increase alongside utility/survivability. I think the Multiclass is just a little worse here
Level 8 – I believe that the Multiclass overtakes Straight Monk again here... and stays ahead.
As of level 8: Straight Monk: 17ac, Mobile and Polearm Master Feats and more Ki. Whereas Multiclass: 18ac, action surge, Mobile Feat (Polearm next level), magic but less Ki... so yeah I think the multiclass is better, but yes it is weaker at levels 5-7
How are you getting 4d8 at level 5 for held action/disengage? And yes multiclassing can be way more powerful depending on how its planned.
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
Disengage from 5ft combat and stand between enemy and allies/ any other opportunity to hold an action when you think an enemy will approach (around a corner etc.) Then hold action Booming Blade for when an enemy steps into range with my spear held in two hands...
Spear does 1d8+4 and Booming Blade does another 1d8 Thunder damage... then because the enemy is moving (same as Polearm Master & Warcaster) they take an extra 2d8 Thunder damage immediately, so 4d8+4
FWIW I was talking straight fighter, not monk. Monk is generally weaker than fighter (even though I like monks).
See I think that is swing and roundabouts, Fighter does more damage sure, but Monk helps out your party more (especially if you already have a frontline Fighter, which I do).
I’m curious now if I should pick up Green-Flame Blade instead of Light as my other Cantrip, I think I’ll use it less than Booming Blade but as both are situational I could be giving myself more options (my Spellcasting Modifier isn’t high though... 10int).