I'm trying to home brew a part of a monk class. I'm trying to create a damage increase to his melee attacks if he uses a Qi point. I can't decide what would be the most effective yet balanced way of increasing the damage. I have a few ideas in mind, but I'm open to other suggestions.
- A flat increase using an ability score (maybe even adding proficiency bonus)
- An extra dice of damage (presumably Monk's Dice)
- Double the damage rolled. (limit of one use of this bonus, either per attack or per turn)
The monk can already use Ki for flurry of blows which gives him an extra attack without home brew.
^ This
Monks can already do what you're asking for and if you buff their damage by too much, you're going to buff your damage to outrageous levels. I mean, at lvl 5 when you get your 2nd attack, you'll be able to do 2 attacks, flurry of blows and then use another ki point to add damage to all your attacks. Add on to that the fact that you'll likely boost your damage by adding to your Dex bonus and/or getting magical weapons and it gets bonkers.
I would ask why you want to add damage ultimately. Is there a mechanical reason? Are you the only damage dealer in the group? In the end you'd be better off leaving the class as it is and asking for a magic weapon to boost damage or homebrewing the item. Classes are tested and balanced and (for the most part) work great as they are.
I'm working on a subclass that utilizes energy in multiple different ways. I want to give the user the option to make their damage more effective.
Maybe I should change the damage type? Or make the property considered magical/ignore resistances or even immunities?
I want to make the use of the mechanic in a way that gives the option for some bonus damage, just new to homebrewing and trying to balance it well.
Thanks for all the replies so far though!
The monk already gets magical attacks at level 6. Again, everything you're asking for is already there. If you want to change how the monk does things in-game, just reflavour the description. For example, if you want to give the monk a superstrong one-kill punch, just use Flurry of Blows but describe it as the monk charging up their fists and delivering one super-punch (but different attack rolls have to be made to see how well it hits).
Similar to above, ill agree with Lost. The monk class and the various sub-classes already offer just above everything you've mentioned above that you want to do. You want extra damage? Go Kensei:
Deft Strike. When you hit a target with a kensei weapon, you can spend 1 ki point to cause the weapon to deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die. You can use this feature only once on each of your turns.
Ultimately if you're looking to homebrew a monastic tradition to go with your concept you'll want to make sure you're considering what you're trying to accomplish, otherwise you can simply reflavor some of the abilities already presented in the traditions available in any of the books or UA available. As Lost said, simply make an ability give you the same effect but make it sound different or work in a slightly different way to match your image. If you wan to use your own concept, consider what Mercer did with the Cobalt Soul tradition and the flavor text that he created to explain why he needed a whole new tradition rather than using whats available:
The monks of the Cobalt Soul are the embodiment of the phrase “know your enemy”. Through research, they prepare themselves against the ever-coming tides of evil. Through careful training, they have learned to puncture and manipulate the spiritual flow of an opponent’s body. Through understanding the secrets of their foe, they can adapt and surmount them. Then, once the fight is done, they return to record their findings for future generations of monks to study from.
In the above case he wanted to create a tradition that allowed the user to exploit weeknesses in their foes and added abilities to the different levels that complimented that desire to work that way. IMO, start that way, come up with a concept, then post that here and people can give you input as to what would be the best way to achieve your goal. Otherwise we're likely to simply keep pointing you to skills and abilities that monks already have to fill your requests.
The monk can already use Ki for flurry of blows which gives him an extra attack without home brew.
^ This
Monks can already do what you're asking for and if you buff their damage by too much, you're going to buff your damage to outrageous levels. I mean, at lvl 5 when you get your 2nd attack, you'll be able to do 2 attacks, flurry of blows and then use another ki point to add damage to all your attacks. Add on to that the fact that you'll likely boost your damage by adding to your Dex bonus and/or getting magical weapons and it gets bonkers.
I would ask why you want to add damage ultimately. Is there a mechanical reason? Are you the only damage dealer in the group? In the end you'd be better off leaving the class as it is and asking for a magic weapon to boost damage or homebrewing the item. Classes are tested and balanced and (for the most part) work great as they are.
If the monk makes 3 attacks (+1 with ki), the warrior makes 4 + 1 if he has 2 weapons (without ki, unlimited) and if he uses Action Surge he does twice and if he is a champion he also has the critic 18-20 ....
The monk has the same life dice as a thief, but the Rogue has the ability to escape at the end of each turn, while the monk has to waste a ki plus his bonus attack to escape. The thief is meant to use the bonus to escape, the sneak att. is already powerful ... but the monk ?) ... The Ranger at the life dice of a warrior, strikes at a distance and above all has magic. ... the monk has none...
A monk's only tactical advantage is the speed and ability to stun and prone opponents (it happens very rarely), so the rest of the party can slaughter enemies on the ground.
Aanx, I feel like you're cherry picking specific examples of what the monk cannot do when compared to another class, when the whole point of a Monk is that they're sort of the jack of all trades when it comes to a utility type character. Yes, they cant hit as hard as a fighter (without considering subclass), they cant evade as good as a rogue or take hits as well as a fighter or barbarian. But at the same time, they have dex based save evasion like a rogue, have almost as many hits as a fighter, can move as far as or further than a barbarian, can stun like a wizard (ish), hit things that are resistant or immune to non-magical attacks (which fighters, rogues and rangers do not get), etc. Again though, they're not supposed to be the best at these things, so saying they do not have all that is sort of the point.
If you want to get into the details of it, I am more than happy to debate it (likely in another thread), but in the context of what the OP was trying to do, there is no reason for the monk to need any specific ability added to their list that would buff their damage beyond what giving them a magic weapon would accomplish in a much easier manner.
So what you mean is that the monk does almost everything (not magic), but he does it so-so! So what do you need a monk for? what is the role of the monk in the group? The only positive thing is that it leaves more room for interpretation ... although in the end it would be easier to make another class ....
And speaking of weapons, the monk should (my interpretation) be one of the classes that needs less magic weapons, since in the list of magic items for the monk there are no +1/2/3 gloves for unarmed att. Clearly the DM can invent them, the creation of weapons and magical objects are the best way to balance the power of the players ...but the philosophy of a monk (my interpretation) is that he succeeds even without...the fact that he needs magic items to be on par with others destroys his image.
You're probably right in the damage aspect, but when I think of the monk's class I feel like this skill is missing...
When you make a melee attack against a creature and you hit, you don’t provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn.
it would solve half the problems that the monk has .... The role of the monk in my opinion should be like that of the rogue, hitting and Disengage (if not way they given him only d8 hit points?), the difference of the rogue who makes a powerful attack, the monk makes many but weak (even if he will never be able to equalize the damage of the sneak att., 10d6+5 ≠ 3d10+15). The only way to do damage is to use the stun attack to gain advantage and use the feat Great Weapon Master (hoping he hit) the problem is that the monk is one of the classes that receives the least Ability Score Improvement ... so it's hard to focus on dexterity, wisdom and constitution if you also need to take feats...
These would be other abilities that could help the monk have his own fighting style:
Whenever you use Flurry of Blows to attack once, at 11th level you can instead attack twice and three at 17th level.
When a creature within 10 feet of you is reduced to 0 hit points or when you score a critical hit, you can use your reaction to regain ki points equal to your of your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).
Once on each of your turns when you move at least 15 feet and hit a target with your attack, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
So what you mean is that the monk does almost everything (not magic), but he does it so-so! So what do you need a monk for? what is the role of the monk in the group?
Yes, this is what I mean. The monk as it stands is able to fill in at least partially for any sort of missing function within a group almost at a moments notice while also providing an out of combat benefit to the group as well. And to your point of the monk not needing magic weapons, I agree, they dont and anything else they get that buffs their damage puts them on par if not above the equivalent fighter or non-GWM/Sharpshooter barbarian/archer. To put this in context as to why I think it would be a bad idea to buff their damage, my DM gave my Shadow Monk an item that adds +1d4 damage to each of my attacks, and combined with a 20 Dex gave me 3d8+3d4+15 damage per round assuming all 3 attacks hit without using a Ki point (at lvl 11). Add one more hit to that and im doing a minimum of 28 damage if all 4 hits land up to a max of 68 damage. Compare that to a Fighter at lvl 11 with 3 attacks with their main hand and 1 offhand shortsword or dagger and you have similar damage. All while the monk still has evasion, slow fall, deflect missiles, stunning strike, 20 more feet of movement and stillness of mind, and you can see where the versatility of the fighter starts to fall off.
My opinion is, if you start to buff their damage and possibly their hit dice, there would be no reason to ever pick a fighter again. Monks fit the role of a psudo-front line fighter with the ability to switch roles in a fight at the drop of a hat.
Also consider that if you want to not provoke opportunity attacks, play a drunken master, they have that free disengage when you use Flurry. Or take the mobile feat like I did. As to your points on more attacks per flurry, take a look at the Astral Self UA subclass, it incorporates your first 2 points by giving the subclass more forms of damage to bring you up closer to a fighter.
Although I do like the whole movement to add more damage to the attack, I could see that possibly being abused somewhat in actual play, but even then it could be nice flavor to the class.
Ultimately the type of monk that you want to play is going to be directly related to the subclass that you pick.
You want to fill the Fighter role as a monk? Take either Astral Self or Kensei.
Battlefield control? Drunken Master or Open Hand
Scout? Shadow
Psudo-Mage? Four Elements or Sun Soul
Support? Mercy
Tank? Long Death
Do I think that the class is perfect? No. Should they possibly have a d10 for health? It would be really nice given that we're primarily front line melee fighters and it would help us survive those lower levels so we dont have to spend Ki on deciding to prevent or do damage in a turn. But ultimately thats part of the tactical game, deciding how best to use your Ki to give you the best chance of finishing an encounter.
What it comes down to for me is the fact that if they were to adjust anything for a monk, whether its hit dice, damage output, utility, class features or abilities, they would have to remove something else, or tone it down. Thats not really something I am okay with given the vast array of abilities given to monks right now. Especially since they added the UA Class Features which give you even more options for other weapons, Ki point utility, etc.
Final point, I dont think Monks can make use of GWM RAW. But I didnt look too much into it.
My opinion is, if you start to buff their damage and possibly their hit dice, there would be no reason to ever pick a fighter again. Monks fit the role of a psudo-front line fighter with the ability to switch roles in a fight at the drop of a hat.
On this I agree with you, a monk must not look like a warrior, but this does not mean that he does not have a specific role in the group. just because he can assume (more or less, but perhaps less) some other role and not that his role is to annoy the enemy, I find it ridiculous. I think the monk has improved from the old versions, but unfortunately he was created without a specific role and this makes him uninteresting. That's why OP skills like the Quivering Palm are born, just a bad way of balancing classes.
(this is my opinion, for others this could be the opposite. It could give development freedom but practically makes it more difficult to develop than other classes).
Although I do like the whole movement to add more damage to the attack, I could see that possibly being abused somewhat in actual play, but even then it could be nice flavor to the class.
Maybe, but it's difficult if you can only use it once on your turn.
Ultimately the type of monk that you want to play is going to be directly related to the subclass that you pick.
You want to fill the Fighter role as a monk? Take either Astral Self or Kensei. / Battlefield control? Drunken Master or Open Hand / Scout? Shadow / Psudo-Mage? Four Elements or Sun Soul / Support? Mercy / Tank? Long Death
Neither of these classes manages to match the other classes in the chosen role. So why be a monk? I find that the monk should have his own specialization.
I find that the best choice is "Battlefield control". (I did a HOMEBREW SUBCLASS on this style entitled "Way of the Pressure points") Astral self is extremely strong, but makes half of the monk's powers it becomes obsolete ... I made a HOMEBREW SUBCLASS similar to the astral self entitled "way of the asura path" (don't judge ... I know it's OP and probably unplayable) ...
Kensei = some skills become obsolete at higher levels Drunken Master = beautiful but when he finishes the ki is passed off (take the talent remedy, but the monk receives few Ability Score Improvement compared to other classes, making it difficult to stay in the same level of the group) Shadow = useless in bright places ... and the only thing you gain is 60ft movement. and the first attack has advantage, but throw the bonus attacks. Can be used as a step for multi-class rogue. Four Elements = too few ki to be called a pseudo-magician ... maybe a 1/10 magician ... Sun Soul = more than a pseudo-magician is an arch without damage enhancement powers ... Long Death = I don't think it's comparable to a barbarian bear totem ...
Maybe I exaggerated a little, but more or less is what I think ... without offending anyone!
Thats not really something I am okay with given the vast array of abilities given to monks right now. Especially since they added the UA Class Features which give you even more options for other weapons, Ki point utility, etc.
The monk's abilities are practically situational and of little use. Slow Fall = never used (because it would practically kill the group apart from the monk and this would destroy the game) Tongue of the Sun and Moon = replaceable with a spell Ki-Empowered Strikes = only useful at the beginning until you find magic weapons and this happens in the level you receive this skill. Timeless Body = never used ...
the rest are very useful.
Final point, I dont think Monks can make use of GWM RAW. But I didnt look too much into it.
Why not?
Did you know that the thief can choose which of his attacks is a sneak att.? But the easiest thing is that you can have critic with the sneak att! at level 20 a sneak att. makes 10d6, with the critic of 20d6 +..... and this happens every first attack that makes critic with the rogue.... (Rogue Swashbuckler + l level fighter)
Belx, I apologize for the previous speech. But this does not mean that if a person wants to create his personal monk he / she cannot because the subclasses are those and stop, it cannot be changed. Maybe new creations can help the development of a new monk for the next edition. I admire people who have the creativity to change things and create their own monk. I played with a homebrew subclass of the monk, the "Staff Master", and found it very interesting. It was probably created to be matched with the feat "Polearm master", specializing it in a reaction subclass.
Going back to the topic of this chat (I apologize to everyone for having sidetracked the conversation).
I think enhancing the damage is a good idea but there must be a specific action and also its price in ki points.
For example, I'm working on the subclass "way of the pressure points" and I tried this way (It is still developing).
As the Fighter "battle master" has his combat maneuvers, I think the monk should have his. It could be combined with the Flurry of Blows attack, like the open hand techniques...
Some techniques are overly strong (someone advised me to separate them so that they are only accessible at a certain level).
Shura Techniques
With your control of the hidden meridian points at 6rd level, you can manipulate your enemy’s ki when you harness your own. Choose two of the following options and whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, with the use of another ki you can impose one of the following effects choose on the target. At 11th, 17th and at 20th level you can choose another one of the Shura techniques.
It must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be blind until the end of your next turn. (ex: fingers in the eyes)
It must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or not be able to move, swimming or fly until the end of your next turn. (ex: the nerves are damaged)
It must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or suffer internal bleeding and take damage equal to one dice of your martial art. It must repeat the saving throw at the start of each of its turns. On each successive failed save, the damage of internal bleeding increases of a martial dice. After three turns the internal bleeding ends.
It must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or not being able to speak until the end of your next turn. (ex: blow to the throat)
It must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed up to 15 feet away from you and fall prone.
It must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be confused by your feint and be at a disadvantage in attacking you until the end of your next turn.
I created new shura techniques, they are probably not balanced, but it is a good start to make a class that allows different development options by personalizing more your monk.
It must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
You ca use your martial die, rolling the die and adding the number rolled to your AC until the end of your next turn.
It must make a Wisdom saving throw (Goading). On a failed save, the target has disadvantage on all attack rolls against targets other than you until the end of your next turn.
You can use your martial die to increase your reach (long kick) for that attack by 10 feet. If you hit, you add the martial die to the attack's damage roll.
It must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
You can hit 2 targets with one attack (rotating kick), if you take this technique 2 time you can attack all around you.
It must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is automatically grabbed, and until the end of your next turn he cannot free himself.
You can use your enemy as a springboard to jump high and attack an opponent in the sky, and drag him to the ground.
You can teleport 10 feet after attacking the opponent, if you take this technique 2 time you can use the technique one more time for the next attack.
I thought it would be interesting for the 17th level to be able to combine the shura techniques with the different attacks of the Flurry of Blows.
Its all good. I get what you're trying to say, and for the most part disagree in principle that monks need an overhaul, more damage in particular. Having played the monk for several years now, I like the feel of it, how it works in and out of combat and the general mechanics of the class. Again, I dont think its perfect and could use some tweaks, but if you start doing too much to it, I feel like you're taking away what makes the class a monk. But again, my opinion.
One point you made above, "The monk's abilities are practically situational and of little use.", is absolutely true and (in my opinion) the entire point of the class. Monks are intended to be able to do a little bit of everything, and when you have that versatility you really shouldnt be the best at any one thing. We shouldnt have more free cost attacks than a fighter, be more nimble than a rogue, take hits better than a barbarian, be able to control a battle better than a wizard or bard, etc. But the fact is, we can do a little bit of everything and if you start upping some of those abilities you remove some of that variability which is something I personally love about the class.
Slow Fall - Just cause you havent used it doesnt mean its not useful. Ive used this more than a dozen times to either reduce or negate damage that would have put me down or out of the fight due to our limited HP pool
Tongue of the Sun and Moon - Is replaceable by a spell that comes at a cost of a spell slot and a memory slot. The point of this is that the caster doesnt need to keep this spell memorized as its always on (or able to be turned off at will). Also the spell is able to be cast as a ritual, but still, 10 minute cast time and lasts for an hour. This is always on. Much better imo
Ki-Empowered Strikes - Personally this is very useful early on when other classes like Barbs, Fighters and Rangers HAVE to have a magical weapon to bypass resistances. Monks always have this no matter what weapon they use (that is a monk weapon). Fighter looses his sword and backup/found sword? He's screwed against resistances. Monk picks up a random quarter staff? Bamn, still doing full dmg.
Timeless Body - Not high enough either. Although this strikes me as flavor rather than a useful ability. So /shrug
You even follow up the previous statement that the rest are very useful. Which is true imo. You make every skill very useful and you have an OP class that can do everything.
Kensei - Dont disagree, and ive heard that complaint from other places
Drunken Master - I dont understand what you're saying here. I dont play this subclass, but it does seem cool, and not at all Ki limited imo
Shadow - Since i play this I have a unique perspective, and while yes, they cant shadow step or go invisible in bright places, we're far from useless in bight places. We can still cast darkness and silence and still have the movement of a monk, stunning strike, evasion and flurry. When we're in a place thats not full sunlight we excel even further. This more than makes up for the rare times where there are no shadows to be found. I can count on one hand the number of times where we've fought in a battle that didnt have some sort of shadow for me to use/abuse.
4E - Ya, this sucks as designed. The Remaster is far superior in general and could use an official rework.
Sun Soul - Doesnt have damage enhancement on purpose because they still have the other monk abilities which are still quite powerful.
Long Death - Isnt a bear totem for sure. But as with all monk concepts, gets you closer and allows you some measure of tankability that the monk lacks in other subclasses. Even if its only 50% as good as a barbarian, its still better than the other non-barb classes.
GWM requires that the wielder have a heavy weapon and monks are not proficient in heavy weapons. So while they can use it, they're not able to add any of their modifiers to that damage. So I was a bit wrong, a monk Can take GWM, but they cant make any real good use of it since even with Kensei they're not able to take heavy weapons as their monk weapon without homebrew.
Now to your last post, you dont have to apologize for posting your opinion (or at least not to me since this wasnt my thread, heh), and im happy to debate the monk till im blue in the face. Its good to be able to see where I might be wrong or have a misconception on things. I personally think the UA that they're putting out is a good step in the right direction for being able to address some of the shortcomings of the Monk class as a whole.
Back on track for me too, I would adjust the above bolded statement to:
I think giving monks alternative methods to do more damage is a good idea, but there must be a specific action and also its price in Ki points.
Would be a more adept way of saying what you would do. Like with the Class Enhancements UA from a month or two back, we now have a way to use Ki to heal ourselves. Im hoping that once they add this into DDB I can talk to my DM about adding it into my Monk character.
I created a subclass very similar to the "way of the astral self" but it fights with its fist ... a little more balanced in the levels. Tell me what you think?
Way of the Asura Path
Monks of the Asura Path are a class of beings power-seeking, they are the ultimate masters of speed and violence martial arts. The ability to absorb weapons and objects makes them seem harmless, but arcane power shines through their tattoos, making them look like a magic class. Asuras arises during the war. They are a hidden order of monks trained for dark times, when the power of light is not enough to defeat the darkness. Asura is the representation of what is destruction in the universal equilibrium, it is the outwardness that precedes the new creation. The legend says that the Asuras are a cursed order, where they are located there will certainly be war and destruction. Only an Asura is trained during non-war periods, so as not to lose knowledge of the cursed style.
Astra Style
Starting at 3th level, your body can absorb objects and monk weapons (except armor and shields), when absorbed they become tattoos (you cannot be disarmed), but the the weight remains. Your unarmed attacks take the characteristics of the chosen one-handed weapon (even magical properties), nails for slashing, fingers for piercing and the rest of the body (fists, elbows, head, knees, kicks) for bludgeoning damage. For throwing weapons, when used they are ejected from the body.
Asura Agility
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level you are exceptionally speedy and agile. You gain the following benefits:
Your speed increases by 10 feet.
When you make a melee attack against a creature and you hit, you don’t provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn.
Add twice your proficiency bonus to Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.
Asura Third Eye
Starting at 6th level, on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point as a bonus action, or as part, to open your third eye for 10 minutes. The third eye is located on the forehead positioned vertically, the color of the iris is golden and the sclera black. You gain one of the following benefits:
You have darkvision 60 feet, if you already have darkvision, the third eye increases your range by 60 feet.
You have advantage on Wisdom (Insight) and Intelligence (Investigation) checks.
You have advantage on saving throws against illusions and charms. (only at 11th level)
When you use your Flurry of Blows you can instead shoot a laser from your third eye with a reach of 30 feet. The damage is the same of the your Flurry of Blows. (only at 11th level)
You can see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, and you can see into the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures and objects appear ghostly and translucent. (only at 17th level)
Awakening of the Asura
Starting at 11th level, you tap into the greater power of the Asura path. You can spend 3 ki points as a bonus action, to evolve your spirit into an Asura for 10 minutes. The third eye of Asura is open and you move so fast that it looks like you have 4 arms and 2 heads.
Asura Energy When you take acid, cold, fire, lightning, or force damage, you can use your reaction to deflect it. When you do so, the damage you take is reduced by 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier + your monk level. If you reduce the damage to 0, you can redirect the energy to anyone at the range of 20 - 60 feet, the damage is equal to your reduction.
Asura Ferocity On each of your turns when you hit a different target and you move at least 15 feet, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
Asura Arms In this form of awakening your fighting style speed grow, the number of extra attacks as a bonus action increasing to two.
True Asura
Starting at 17th level, your Asura path is complete. You can spend 10 ki points as a bonus action to evolve your self into a true Asura for 10 minutes. The third eye of Asura is open, your body now has 6 arms, 3 heads and your skin is blue or red. While you are a true Asura, you gain the benefits of awakening of the Asura, plus the following benefits.
Asura Skin You gain a +2 bonus to AC while you aren’t incapacitated.
Asura Barrage In this form of awakening your fighting style speed grow, the number of extra attacks as a bonus action increasing to three.
Ki Absorption When a creature within 10 ft. of you is reduced to 0 hit points you can use your reaction to regain ki points equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), and when you score a critical hit you regain 1 ki.
I created a subclass inspired by the combat maneuvers of the "Battle Master" and "Way of the Open Hand" ...I don't know if it's balanced. Tell me what you think?
Way of the Pressure Points
The way of the Pressure Points is a secretive martial arts handed down from father to son. Based on 4'000 years of knowledge in combat and in the medical research. This martial art is defined mythical not for its killer power but for its adaptability to any enemy. Each new generation of this martial art, after receiving training, travels around the world to test themselves with the most talented fighters and the most fearsome monsters. Each generation aims to improve its style for the next generation by adapting it to the combat of its time. (For this subclass you must have the medicine skill)
Meridian Points
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, with your knowledge in the field of medicine you know of the beneficial and destructive points of the body, your actions can save the life of your friends and yours attacks can be more painful for your enemy.
The opponents affected by your attacks suffer stings of pain distracting them for a small period of time, for the rest of the turn you don’t provoke opportunity attacks from them.
With a bonus action you can heal a creature next to you, the creature regains hit points equal to your medicine skill + one martial die, but since the energy for healing is extracted directly from the patient, this also takes 3 level of exhaustion. Finishing a short rest can reduces this kind of exhaustion by 1 and a long rest end this condition. You can only use this ability a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), after a long rest you can use it again. At 6th level the exhaustion is reduces at 2, at 11th at 1 and at 17th at 0.
Shura Techniques
With your control of the hidden meridian points at 6th level, you can manipulate your enemy’s ki when you harness your own. Choose three of the following options and whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, with the use of another ki you can impose one of the following effects choose on the target. At 11th level you can choose another two Shura techniques, and at 17th level you can choose another one.
It must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or suffer internal bleeding and take damage equal to one dice of your martial art. It must repeat the saving throw at the start of each of its turns. On each successive failed save, the damage of internal bleeding increases of a martial dice. After three turns the internal bleeding ends. (lev6)
It must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be confused by your feint and be at a disadvantage in attacking until the end of your next turn. (lev6)
it must make a Wisdom saving throw (Goading). On a failed save, the target has disadvantage on all attack rolls against targets other than you until the end of your next turn. (lev6)
You can use your martial die to increase your reach (long kick) for that attack by 10 feet. If you hit, you add the martial die to the attack's damage roll. (lev6)
You can hit 2 targets with one attack (rotating kick), if you take this technique 2 time you can attack all around you. (lev6) (lev6)
It must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is automatically grabbed, and until the end of your next turn he cannot free himself. (lev6)
You can use your enemy as a springboard to jump high and attack an opponent in the sky, and drag him to the ground. (lev6)
You score a critical hit on a roll of 18-20 until the end of this turn (lev6)
At 11th level you can choose two of the Shura techniques from the list of 6th and 11th level. Each time you learn new shura techniques, you can also replace the techniques you know with a different one.
It must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be blind until the end of your next turn. (ex: fingers in the eyes) (lev 11)
It must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or not be able to move, swimming or fly until the end of your next turn. (ex: the nerves are damaged) (lev11)
It must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet. (lev11)
You can teleport 10 feet after attacking the opponent. (lev11)
You ca use your martial die, rolling the die and adding the number rolled to your AC until the end of your next turn. (lev11)
It must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is frightened of you until the end of your next turn. (lev11)
At 17th level you can choose one of the Shura techniques from all the list. Each time you learn new shura techniques, you can also replaces the techniques you know with a different one.
It must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or not being able to speak until the end of your next turn. (ex: blow to the throat) (lev17)
It must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed up to 15 feet away from you and fall prone. (lev17)
You can teleport 10 feet after attacking the opponent, if you take this technique 2 time you can use the technique once more for the next attack. (lev11) (lev17)
Shura Ki
Beginning at 11th level, your control over ki power improves, you are able to attack more quickly and you are able to absorb ki from your opponents during the fight.
When a creature within 10 ft. of you is reduced to 0 hit points you can use your reaction to regain ki points equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), and when you score a critical hit you regain 1 ki.
Whenever you use Flurry of Blows to attack once, now you can instead attack twice times and three at 17th level.
You gain the ability to heal yourself. As a bonus action, you can regain hit points equal to your medicine skill modifier + two dice of your martial art. You must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.
Master of Shura tecniques
At 17th level you are now a Master of the Shura Techniques.
You gain the ability to combine the Demonic techniques with the different attacks of the Flurry of Blows.
When you have advantage you can choose to not use a dice to attack rolls to increase your damage rolls by a martial die.
On each of your turns when you move at least 15 feet and hit a target with your attack, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
You learn the definitive Shura technique. In any unarmed attack you do, the target must succeed on two saving throw (of enemy chose). You must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.
if it succeeds on all saving throw, the target is stunned until the end of your next turn.
If it succeeds on one saving throw, the target is reduced to 50% hit points.
If it fails all saving throw, the target is reduced to 0 hit points.
Hey, Adventurers,
I'm trying to home brew a part of a monk class. I'm trying to create a damage increase to his melee attacks if he uses a Qi point. I can't decide what would be the most effective yet balanced way of increasing the damage. I have a few ideas in mind, but I'm open to other suggestions.
- A flat increase using an ability score (maybe even adding proficiency bonus)
- An extra dice of damage (presumably Monk's Dice)
- Double the damage rolled. (limit of one use of this bonus, either per attack or per turn)
Thanks for taking the time to read through,
- Sage
The monk can already use Ki for flurry of blows which gives him an extra attack without home brew.
^ This
Monks can already do what you're asking for and if you buff their damage by too much, you're going to buff your damage to outrageous levels. I mean, at lvl 5 when you get your 2nd attack, you'll be able to do 2 attacks, flurry of blows and then use another ki point to add damage to all your attacks. Add on to that the fact that you'll likely boost your damage by adding to your Dex bonus and/or getting magical weapons and it gets bonkers.
I would ask why you want to add damage ultimately. Is there a mechanical reason? Are you the only damage dealer in the group? In the end you'd be better off leaving the class as it is and asking for a magic weapon to boost damage or homebrewing the item. Classes are tested and balanced and (for the most part) work great as they are.
I'm working on a subclass that utilizes energy in multiple different ways. I want to give the user the option to make their damage more effective.
Maybe I should change the damage type? Or make the property considered magical/ignore resistances or even immunities?
I want to make the use of the mechanic in a way that gives the option for some bonus damage, just new to homebrewing and trying to balance it well.
Thanks for all the replies so far though!
The monk already gets magical attacks at level 6. Again, everything you're asking for is already there. If you want to change how the monk does things in-game, just reflavour the description. For example, if you want to give the monk a superstrong one-kill punch, just use Flurry of Blows but describe it as the monk charging up their fists and delivering one super-punch (but different attack rolls have to be made to see how well it hits).
Similar to above, ill agree with Lost. The monk class and the various sub-classes already offer just above everything you've mentioned above that you want to do. You want extra damage? Go Kensei:
Deft Strike. When you hit a target with a kensei weapon, you can spend 1 ki point to cause the weapon to deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die. You can use this feature only once on each of your turns.
Ultimately if you're looking to homebrew a monastic tradition to go with your concept you'll want to make sure you're considering what you're trying to accomplish, otherwise you can simply reflavor some of the abilities already presented in the traditions available in any of the books or UA available. As Lost said, simply make an ability give you the same effect but make it sound different or work in a slightly different way to match your image. If you wan to use your own concept, consider what Mercer did with the Cobalt Soul tradition and the flavor text that he created to explain why he needed a whole new tradition rather than using whats available:
The monks of the Cobalt Soul are the embodiment of the phrase “know your enemy”. Through research, they prepare themselves against the ever-coming tides of evil. Through careful training, they have learned to puncture and manipulate the spiritual flow of an opponent’s body. Through understanding the secrets of their foe, they can adapt and surmount them. Then, once the fight is done, they return to record their findings for future generations of monks to study from.
In the above case he wanted to create a tradition that allowed the user to exploit weeknesses in their foes and added abilities to the different levels that complimented that desire to work that way. IMO, start that way, come up with a concept, then post that here and people can give you input as to what would be the best way to achieve your goal. Otherwise we're likely to simply keep pointing you to skills and abilities that monks already have to fill your requests.
Okay, thank you for your input! I will work on that, y'all might see it at some point in the future on here as a concept!
If the monk makes 3 attacks (+1 with ki), the warrior makes 4 + 1 if he has 2 weapons (without ki, unlimited) and if he uses Action Surge he does twice and if he is a champion he also has the critic 18-20 ....
The monk has the same life dice as a thief, but the Rogue has the ability to escape at the end of each turn, while the monk has to waste a ki plus his bonus attack to escape. The thief is meant to use the bonus to escape, the sneak att. is already powerful ... but the monk ?) ... The Ranger at the life dice of a warrior, strikes at a distance and above all has magic. ... the monk has none...
A monk's only tactical advantage is the speed and ability to stun and prone opponents (it happens very rarely), so the rest of the party can slaughter enemies on the ground.
Aanx, I feel like you're cherry picking specific examples of what the monk cannot do when compared to another class, when the whole point of a Monk is that they're sort of the jack of all trades when it comes to a utility type character. Yes, they cant hit as hard as a fighter (without considering subclass), they cant evade as good as a rogue or take hits as well as a fighter or barbarian. But at the same time, they have dex based save evasion like a rogue, have almost as many hits as a fighter, can move as far as or further than a barbarian, can stun like a wizard (ish), hit things that are resistant or immune to non-magical attacks (which fighters, rogues and rangers do not get), etc. Again though, they're not supposed to be the best at these things, so saying they do not have all that is sort of the point.
If you want to get into the details of it, I am more than happy to debate it (likely in another thread), but in the context of what the OP was trying to do, there is no reason for the monk to need any specific ability added to their list that would buff their damage beyond what giving them a magic weapon would accomplish in a much easier manner.
So what you mean is that the monk does almost everything (not magic), but he does it so-so!
So what do you need a monk for? what is the role of the monk in the group?
The only positive thing is that it leaves more room for interpretation ... although in the end it would be easier to make another class ....
And speaking of weapons, the monk should (my interpretation) be one of the classes that needs less magic weapons, since in the list of magic items for the monk there are no +1/2/3 gloves for unarmed att. Clearly the DM can invent them, the creation of weapons and magical objects are the best way to balance the power of the players ...but the philosophy of a monk (my interpretation) is that he succeeds even without...the fact that he needs magic items to be on par with others destroys his image.
You're probably right in the damage aspect, but when I think of the monk's class I feel like this skill is missing...
it would solve half the problems that the monk has .... The role of the monk in my opinion should be like that of the rogue, hitting and Disengage (if not way they given him only d8 hit points?), the difference of the rogue who makes a powerful attack, the monk makes many but weak (even if he will never be able to equalize the damage of the sneak att., 10d6+5 ≠ 3d10+15). The only way to do damage is to use the stun attack to gain advantage and use the feat Great Weapon Master (hoping he hit) the problem is that the monk is one of the classes that receives the least Ability Score Improvement ... so it's hard to focus on dexterity, wisdom and constitution if you also need to take feats...
These would be other abilities that could help the monk have his own fighting style:
Yes, this is what I mean. The monk as it stands is able to fill in at least partially for any sort of missing function within a group almost at a moments notice while also providing an out of combat benefit to the group as well. And to your point of the monk not needing magic weapons, I agree, they dont and anything else they get that buffs their damage puts them on par if not above the equivalent fighter or non-GWM/Sharpshooter barbarian/archer. To put this in context as to why I think it would be a bad idea to buff their damage, my DM gave my Shadow Monk an item that adds +1d4 damage to each of my attacks, and combined with a 20 Dex gave me 3d8+3d4+15 damage per round assuming all 3 attacks hit without using a Ki point (at lvl 11). Add one more hit to that and im doing a minimum of 28 damage if all 4 hits land up to a max of 68 damage. Compare that to a Fighter at lvl 11 with 3 attacks with their main hand and 1 offhand shortsword or dagger and you have similar damage. All while the monk still has evasion, slow fall, deflect missiles, stunning strike, 20 more feet of movement and stillness of mind, and you can see where the versatility of the fighter starts to fall off.
My opinion is, if you start to buff their damage and possibly their hit dice, there would be no reason to ever pick a fighter again. Monks fit the role of a psudo-front line fighter with the ability to switch roles in a fight at the drop of a hat.
Also consider that if you want to not provoke opportunity attacks, play a drunken master, they have that free disengage when you use Flurry. Or take the mobile feat like I did. As to your points on more attacks per flurry, take a look at the Astral Self UA subclass, it incorporates your first 2 points by giving the subclass more forms of damage to bring you up closer to a fighter.
Although I do like the whole movement to add more damage to the attack, I could see that possibly being abused somewhat in actual play, but even then it could be nice flavor to the class.
Ultimately the type of monk that you want to play is going to be directly related to the subclass that you pick.
Do I think that the class is perfect? No. Should they possibly have a d10 for health? It would be really nice given that we're primarily front line melee fighters and it would help us survive those lower levels so we dont have to spend Ki on deciding to prevent or do damage in a turn. But ultimately thats part of the tactical game, deciding how best to use your Ki to give you the best chance of finishing an encounter.
What it comes down to for me is the fact that if they were to adjust anything for a monk, whether its hit dice, damage output, utility, class features or abilities, they would have to remove something else, or tone it down. Thats not really something I am okay with given the vast array of abilities given to monks right now. Especially since they added the UA Class Features which give you even more options for other weapons, Ki point utility, etc.
Final point, I dont think Monks can make use of GWM RAW. But I didnt look too much into it.
On this I agree with you, a monk must not look like a warrior, but this does not mean that he does not have a specific role in the group. just because he can assume (more or less, but perhaps less) some other role and not that his role is to annoy the enemy, I find it ridiculous.
I think the monk has improved from the old versions, but unfortunately he was created without a specific role and this makes him uninteresting.
That's why OP skills like the Quivering Palm are born, just a bad way of balancing classes.
(this is my opinion, for others this could be the opposite. It could give development freedom but practically makes it more difficult to develop than other classes).
Maybe, but it's difficult if you can only use it once on your turn.
Neither of these classes manages to match the other classes in the chosen role. So why be a monk? I find that the monk should have his own specialization.
I find that the best choice is "Battlefield control". (I did a HOMEBREW SUBCLASS on this style entitled "Way of the Pressure points")
Astral self is extremely strong, but makes half of the monk's powers it becomes obsolete ... I made a HOMEBREW SUBCLASS similar to the astral self entitled "way of the asura path" (don't judge ... I know it's OP and probably unplayable) ...
Kensei = some skills become obsolete at higher levels
Drunken Master = beautiful but when he finishes the ki is passed off (take the talent remedy, but the monk receives few Ability Score Improvement compared to other classes, making it difficult to stay in the same level of the group)
Shadow = useless in bright places ... and the only thing you gain is 60ft movement. and the first attack has advantage, but throw the bonus attacks. Can be used as a step for multi-class rogue.
Four Elements = too few ki to be called a pseudo-magician ... maybe a 1/10 magician ...
Sun Soul = more than a pseudo-magician is an arch without damage enhancement powers ...
Long Death = I don't think it's comparable to a barbarian bear totem ...
Maybe I exaggerated a little, but more or less is what I think ... without offending anyone!
The monk's abilities are practically situational and of little use.
Slow Fall = never used (because it would practically kill the group apart from the monk and this would destroy the game)
Tongue of the Sun and Moon = replaceable with a spell
Ki-Empowered Strikes = only useful at the beginning until you find magic weapons and this happens in the level you receive this skill.
Timeless Body = never used ...
the rest are very useful.
Why not?
Did you know that the thief can choose which of his attacks is a sneak att.? But the easiest thing is that you can have critic with the sneak att! at level 20 a sneak att. makes 10d6, with the critic of 20d6 +..... and this happens every first attack that makes critic with the rogue.... (Rogue Swashbuckler + l level fighter)
Belx, I apologize for the previous speech. But this does not mean that if a person wants to create his personal monk he / she cannot because the subclasses are those and stop, it cannot be changed. Maybe new creations can help the development of a new monk for the next edition. I admire people who have the creativity to change things and create their own monk. I played with a homebrew subclass of the monk, the "Staff Master", and found it very interesting. It was probably created to be matched with the feat "Polearm master", specializing it in a reaction subclass.
Going back to the topic of this chat (I apologize to everyone for having sidetracked the conversation).
I think enhancing the damage is a good idea but there must be a specific action and also its price in ki points.
For example, I'm working on the subclass "way of the pressure points" and I tried this way (It is still developing).
As the Fighter "battle master" has his combat maneuvers, I think the monk should have his.
It could be combined with the Flurry of Blows attack, like the open hand techniques...
Some techniques are overly strong (someone advised me to separate them so that they are only accessible at a certain level).
Shura Techniques
With your control of the hidden meridian points at 6rd level, you can manipulate your enemy’s ki when you harness your own. Choose two of the following options and whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, with the use of another ki you can impose one of the following effects choose on the target. At 11th, 17th and at 20th level you can choose another one of the Shura techniques.
I created new shura techniques, they are probably not balanced, but it is a good start to make a class that allows different development options by personalizing more your monk.
I thought it would be interesting for the 17th level to be able to combine the shura techniques with the different attacks of the Flurry of Blows.
Its all good. I get what you're trying to say, and for the most part disagree in principle that monks need an overhaul, more damage in particular. Having played the monk for several years now, I like the feel of it, how it works in and out of combat and the general mechanics of the class. Again, I dont think its perfect and could use some tweaks, but if you start doing too much to it, I feel like you're taking away what makes the class a monk. But again, my opinion.
One point you made above, "The monk's abilities are practically situational and of little use.", is absolutely true and (in my opinion) the entire point of the class. Monks are intended to be able to do a little bit of everything, and when you have that versatility you really shouldnt be the best at any one thing. We shouldnt have more free cost attacks than a fighter, be more nimble than a rogue, take hits better than a barbarian, be able to control a battle better than a wizard or bard, etc. But the fact is, we can do a little bit of everything and if you start upping some of those abilities you remove some of that variability which is something I personally love about the class.
You even follow up the previous statement that the rest are very useful. Which is true imo. You make every skill very useful and you have an OP class that can do everything.
GWM requires that the wielder have a heavy weapon and monks are not proficient in heavy weapons. So while they can use it, they're not able to add any of their modifiers to that damage. So I was a bit wrong, a monk Can take GWM, but they cant make any real good use of it since even with Kensei they're not able to take heavy weapons as their monk weapon without homebrew.
Now to your last post, you dont have to apologize for posting your opinion (or at least not to me since this wasnt my thread, heh), and im happy to debate the monk till im blue in the face. Its good to be able to see where I might be wrong or have a misconception on things. I personally think the UA that they're putting out is a good step in the right direction for being able to address some of the shortcomings of the Monk class as a whole.
Back on track for me too, I would adjust the above bolded statement to:
I think giving monks alternative methods to do more damage is a good idea, but there must be a specific action and also its price in Ki points.
Would be a more adept way of saying what you would do. Like with the Class Enhancements UA from a month or two back, we now have a way to use Ki to heal ourselves. Im hoping that once they add this into DDB I can talk to my DM about adding it into my Monk character.
I created a subclass very similar to the "way of the astral self" but it fights with its fist ... a little more balanced in the levels. Tell me what you think?
Way of the Asura Path
Monks of the Asura Path are a class of beings power-seeking, they are the ultimate masters of speed and violence martial arts. The ability to absorb weapons and objects makes them seem harmless, but arcane power shines through their tattoos, making them look like a magic class. Asuras arises during the war. They are a hidden order of monks trained for dark times, when the power of light is not enough to defeat the darkness. Asura is the representation of what is destruction in the universal equilibrium, it is the outwardness that precedes the new creation. The legend says that the Asuras are a cursed order, where they are located there will certainly be war and destruction. Only an Asura is trained during non-war periods, so as not to lose knowledge of the cursed style.
Astra Style
Starting at 3th level, your body can absorb objects and monk weapons (except armor and shields), when absorbed they become tattoos (you cannot be disarmed), but the the weight remains. Your unarmed attacks take the characteristics of the chosen one-handed weapon (even magical properties), nails for slashing, fingers for piercing and the rest of the body (fists, elbows, head, knees, kicks) for bludgeoning damage. For throwing weapons, when used they are ejected from the body.
Asura Agility
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level you are exceptionally speedy and agile.
You gain the following benefits:
Asura Third Eye
Starting at 6th level, on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point as a bonus action, or as part, to open your third eye for 10 minutes. The third eye is located on the forehead positioned vertically, the color of the iris is golden and the sclera black.
You gain one of the following benefits:
Awakening of the Asura
Starting at 11th level, you tap into the greater power of the Asura path. You can spend 3 ki points as a bonus action, to evolve your spirit into an Asura for 10 minutes. The third eye of Asura is open and you move so fast that it looks like you have 4 arms and 2 heads.
Asura Energy
When you take acid, cold, fire, lightning, or force damage, you can use your reaction to deflect it. When you do so, the damage you take is reduced by 1d10 + your Wisdom modifier + your monk level. If you reduce the damage to 0, you can redirect the energy to anyone at the range of 20 - 60 feet, the damage is equal to your reduction.
Asura Ferocity
On each of your turns when you hit a different target and you move at least 15 feet, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
Asura Arms
In this form of awakening your fighting style speed grow, the number of extra attacks as a bonus action increasing to two.
True Asura
Starting at 17th level, your Asura path is complete. You can spend 10 ki points as a bonus action to evolve your self into a true Asura for 10 minutes. The third eye of Asura is open, your body now has 6 arms, 3 heads and your skin is blue or red.
While you are a true Asura, you gain the benefits of awakening of the Asura, plus the following benefits.
Asura Skin
You gain a +2 bonus to AC while you aren’t incapacitated.
Asura Barrage
In this form of awakening your fighting style speed grow, the number of extra attacks as a bonus action increasing to three.
Ki Absorption
When a creature within 10 ft. of you is reduced to 0 hit points you can use your reaction to regain ki points equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), and when you score a critical hit you regain 1 ki.
I created a subclass inspired by the combat maneuvers of the "Battle Master" and "Way of the Open Hand" ...I don't know if it's balanced. Tell me what you think?
Way of the Pressure Points
The way of the Pressure Points is a secretive martial arts handed down from father to son. Based on 4'000 years of knowledge in combat and in the medical research. This martial art is defined mythical not for its killer power but for its adaptability to any enemy. Each new generation of this martial art, after receiving training, travels around the world to test themselves with the most talented fighters and the most fearsome monsters. Each generation aims to improve its style for the next generation by adapting it to the combat of its time. (For this subclass you must have the medicine skill)
Meridian Points
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, with your knowledge in the field of medicine you know of the beneficial and destructive points of the body, your actions can save the life of your friends and yours attacks can be more painful for your enemy.
With a bonus action you can heal a creature next to you, the creature regains hit points equal to your medicine skill + one martial die, but since the energy for healing is extracted directly from the patient, this also takes 3 level of exhaustion. Finishing a short rest can reduces this kind of exhaustion by 1 and a long rest end this condition. You can only use this ability a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), after a long rest you can use it again. At 6th level the exhaustion is reduces at 2, at 11th at 1 and at 17th at 0.
Shura Techniques
With your control of the hidden meridian points at 6th level, you can manipulate your enemy’s ki when you harness your own. Choose three of the following options and whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, with the use of another ki you can impose one of the following effects choose on the target. At 11th level you can choose another two Shura techniques, and at 17th level you can choose another one.
At 11th level you can choose two of the Shura techniques from the list of 6th and 11th level. Each time you learn new shura techniques, you can also replace the techniques you know with a different one.
At 17th level you can choose one of the Shura techniques from all the list. Each time you learn new shura techniques, you can also replaces the techniques you know with a different one.
Shura Ki
Beginning at 11th level, your control over ki power improves, you are able to attack more quickly and you are able to absorb ki from your opponents during the fight.
Master of Shura tecniques
At 17th level you are now a Master of the Shura Techniques.
new subclass:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Way_of_the_Murim_(5e_Subclass)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/516164-way-of-the-murim