Really makes me wonder if there isn't something behind how they seem to avoid commenting on monks running on walls vertically. Like one thing was envisioned RAW and RAI, but the creative team changed their mind on RAI after realizing how fun monks running up walls could be.
I would think the wording would be "On a vertical surface" instead of "Along a vertical surface" if you were meant to be able to run straight up a wall.
2014 and 2024 both have the same phrasing. I look at it like a hover or no hover for flying.
The monk can move along a vertical wall or across a liquid surface their speed, but if they are still on it at the end of their movement then they fall/sink.
It is not a climbing speed which would allow you to stay on the wall at the end of movement, and it is not a walk on water ability that persists from turn to turn.
2014 and 2024 both have the same phrasing. I look at it like a hover or no hover for flying.
The monk can move along a vertical wall or across a liquid surface their speed, but if they are still on it at the end of their movement then they fall/sink.
It is not a climbing speed which would allow you to stay on the wall at the end of movement, and it is not a walk on water ability that persists from turn to turn.
Correct.
and even then their fall is a “slow fall” anyways. So Monks really are not concerned about not ending turns on vertical surfaces anyways unless they are unable to reduce the 5x Monk level damage from the fall as a reaction….
RAI- it seems evident from slow fall that they always intended for monks to run up walls. Hit something. Use ki. Beat the crap out of it a little. Then fall out of the things attack range. And use their reaction to stop the fall damage.
I always run up walls, but it’s limited to your movement. My table has no problem with RAW or RAI. Vertical means up, horizontal means across. Really not an issue or vague or gray area for interpretation.
The 9th level monk ability says they can run along vertical surfaces. ”Along” seems to heavily imply that this is horizontal movement (I.e you are in the same 5ft squares, but your feet are touching the wall.)
I can’t find any sage advice on this, and unless Jeremy Crawford decides to humor me on Twitter, I don’t see any official clarification.
Rule of cool, I’d allow it, and it’s hardly broken. But it seems verboten RAW, or at least vague.
Thoughts?
It says nothing about running. It says you can MOVE along. So you can take your sweet time if you want to show off or be stealthy.
It's probably not in any Sage advice because it's straight forward.
its so crazy that such a simple question has achieved 4 pages of debate... and people are requesting Crawford or sage advice to respond?
It takes serious denial and mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that "running along a vertical surface" would not allow you to run in any direction you want on that vertical surface, including up, down, left, right.. its all along.
an elevator travels along a vertical shaft. A skier slides along a vertical slope a fireman slides along a pole a bead moves along a string rain falls along a window a skydiver falls along air currents a piston moves along a cylinder lava flows along the side of a volcano A mountain climber ascends along the rock face.. PHYSICS "The key to analyzing two-dimensional projectile motion is to break it into two motions, one along the horizontal axis and the other along the vertical."
"Along" generally means movement following the course of something, rather than strictly implying a horizontal direction. In everyday language, we hear "along" used for both vertical and horizontal travel. The argument that "along" only implies horizontal movement doesn’t hold up in common usage.
you don't need sage advice, you just need a dictionary and basic understanding of the English language.
A lot of those "alongs" are painfully forced to replace "up" or "down" in a way that isn't natural. When asked "which way is the elevator going" saying "along the vertical shaft" is a lame dad joke that doesn't answer the question the person asked.
Someone saying a piston moving "along a cylinder" or a skydiver falling "along" air currents is kind of bizarre too. It'd lead people to think skydivers fly by surfing air currents like a Vulture, and that pistons are something that rub up against the side of cylinders rather than being inside them. Its a purposefully misleading and vague use of the preposition, like saying "Chips come along a bag." It isn't natural language.
From the oxford dictionary:
1.moving in a constant direction on (a road, path, or any more or less horizontal surface).
"soon we were driving along a narrow road"
2. extending in a more or less horizontal line on.
I treat any liquid or vertical surface as ground during Acrobatic Movementof Monk's turn, falling only after it. Like a ninja!
Why? There's no length limitation. A Monk is more than a Ninja.
The lenght limitation is whatever distance is your movement on your turn. You generally move up to your Speed either before or after taking an action, and between attacks of the Attack action.
I treat any liquid or vertical surface as ground during Acrobatic Movementof Monk's turn, falling only after it. Like a ninja!
Why? There's no length limitation. A Monk is more than a Ninja.
The lenght limitation is whatever distance is your movement on your turn. You generally move up to your Speed either before or after taking an action, and between attacks of the Attack action.
I know how movement works, my point is the acrobatic event is not limited until the end of your movement. It's when you decide to stop or something stops you. Otherwise, if I say I want to cross that 60 foot wide river using my Acrobat movement, but if my movement is only 45 feet, I fall in and get swept away with the current 15 feet before I get to the other side of the bank.
" It's when you decide to stop or something stops you. Otherwise, if I say I want to cross that 60 foot wide river using my Acrobat movement, but if my movement is only 45 feet, I fall in and get swept away with the current 15 feet before I get to the other side of the bank. "
If you decide not to dash or step of the wind, yes.
Did Crawford ever respond? I'd be interested to recieve a source answer!
Nothing yet. I guess it got buried in all the Tasha's stuff.
Edit: I did find this Mike Mearls tweet that comes pretty close to giving an answer, but he is still kind of vague.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/20/can-a-lv9-monk-use-unarmored-movement-to-run-non-stop-through-a-large-lake-without-falling/
Really makes me wonder if there isn't something behind how they seem to avoid commenting on monks running on walls vertically. Like one thing was envisioned RAW and RAI, but the creative team changed their mind on RAI after realizing how fun monks running up walls could be.
I would think the wording would be "On a vertical surface" instead of "Along a vertical surface" if you were meant to be able to run straight up a wall.
2014 and 2024 both have the same phrasing. I look at it like a hover or no hover for flying.
The monk can move along a vertical wall or across a liquid surface their speed, but if they are still on it at the end of their movement then they fall/sink.
It is not a climbing speed which would allow you to stay on the wall at the end of movement, and it is not a walk on water ability that persists from turn to turn.
Life's hard - get a helmet!
Correct.
and even then their fall is a “slow fall” anyways. So Monks really are not concerned about not ending turns on vertical surfaces anyways unless they are unable to reduce the 5x Monk level damage from the fall as a reaction….
RAI- it seems evident from slow fall that they always intended for monks to run up walls. Hit something. Use ki. Beat the crap out of it a little. Then fall out of the things attack range. And use their reaction to stop the fall damage.
Blank
I always run up walls, but it’s limited to your movement. My table has no problem with RAW or RAI. Vertical means up, horizontal means across. Really not an issue or vague or gray area for interpretation.
It says nothing about running. It says you can MOVE along. So you can take your sweet time if you want to show off or be stealthy.
It's probably not in any Sage advice because it's straight forward.
its so crazy that such a simple question has achieved 4 pages of debate... and people are requesting Crawford or sage advice to respond?
It takes serious denial and mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that "running along a vertical surface" would not allow you to run in any direction you want on that vertical surface, including up, down, left, right.. its all along.
an elevator travels along a vertical shaft.
A skier slides along a vertical slope
a fireman slides along a pole
a bead moves along a string
rain falls along a window
a skydiver falls along air currents
a piston moves along a cylinder
lava flows along the side of a volcano
A mountain climber ascends along the rock face..
PHYSICS "The key to analyzing two-dimensional projectile motion is to break it into two motions, one along the horizontal axis and the other along the vertical."
"Along" generally means movement following the course of something, rather than strictly implying a horizontal direction. In everyday language, we hear "along" used for both vertical and horizontal travel. The argument that "along" only implies horizontal movement doesn’t hold up in common usage.
you don't need sage advice, you just need a dictionary and basic understanding of the English language.
A lot of those "alongs" are painfully forced to replace "up" or "down" in a way that isn't natural. When asked "which way is the elevator going" saying "along the vertical shaft" is a lame dad joke that doesn't answer the question the person asked.
Someone saying a piston moving "along a cylinder" or a skydiver falling "along" air currents is kind of bizarre too. It'd lead people to think skydivers fly by surfing air currents like a Vulture, and that pistons are something that rub up against the side of cylinders rather than being inside them. Its a purposefully misleading and vague use of the preposition, like saying "Chips come along a bag." It isn't natural language.
From the oxford dictionary:
I treat any liquid or vertical surface as ground during Acrobatic Movement of Monk's turn, falling only after it. Like a ninja!
Why? There's no length limitation. A Monk is more than a Ninja.
The lenght limitation is whatever distance is your movement on your turn. You generally move up to your Speed either before or after taking an action, and between attacks of the Attack action.
I know how movement works, my point is the acrobatic event is not limited until the end of your movement. It's when you decide to stop or something stops you. Otherwise, if I say I want to cross that 60 foot wide river using my Acrobat movement, but if my movement is only 45 feet, I fall in and get swept away with the current 15 feet before I get to the other side of the bank.
We agree on this. When i said ""falling only after it"" i meant the movement, not the turn.
Cool! 👍
" It's when you decide to stop or something stops you. Otherwise, if I say I want to cross that 60 foot wide river using my Acrobat movement, but if my movement is only 45 feet, I fall in and get swept away with the current 15 feet before I get to the other side of the bank. "
If you decide not to dash or step of the wind, yes.