Hi, I think it's wise to get my Improved Divine Smite at lvl 11 (I'm almost there) but was thinking about mc'ing Warlock at lvl 12.
I've uploaded a screenshot of myTiefling Paladin with Oath of Vengeance here: https://ibb.co/VSXptpt
The only reason I'd mc is for the spell slot benefit and for a bit more dynamic gameplay. I love being a tank destroyer but I'm a one-trick pony and that can get a bit old since my turns are usually quite short. Hit, smite, repeat :) - though of course it's fun to usually deal the killing blow.
Nahh, it's too late at this point to be worth it, you'd benefit more from the extra ASI to grab more CHA or GWM or something.
You wouldn't even benefit from hex warrior feature, no agonizing blast means EB will be a weak option, and you'd only have one slot. Unless you have warcaster you won't be able to use spells like shield in combat given this looks like a sword and shield build.
Hexblade is something that shines after at least two levels for those invocations, though I'd argue the biggest draw is eldritch smite which only becomes available at lvl 5. It's something that functions best when you plan around it from the start, by taking feats like warcaster early on, or by using a two-handed weapon build to input somatic components without the feat, and it increasing CHA over anything else (although STR based hexadins works when a belt is involved, but does feel redundant).
Ultimately, you want to do what feels best for fun and story. If you want to change to a two-handed weapon build, then sure one lvl could work and you would be able to use the curse for an extra boost in damage, and you'd still access shield and EB albeit used as a mediocre last ditch effort to hurt things from a distance.
If you want more total spell slots then go Sorcerer or Bard. Warlock spell slots while separate to your normal spells slots also start at lvl 1 so will not really be terribly powerful until you get to around at least lock 3 and they scale to lvl 2 slots.
Sorcerers give you a subclass right off the bat. Bards are a little slower til you get to the subclass but gives you interesting options with Bardic Inspiration and the alternative uses of it from some subclasses.
Thanks. Hard to pass up that ASI for sure. Good to know about Shield as that was the other tempting benefit. Also, hello fellow Texan!
Well, cgarciao is wrong about being able to cast the the Shield spell only once since you can always use your paladin slots to cast warlock spells. That said, you need to give up the shield (or weapon) to get the free hand. A free hand would also allow you to cast EB. That might not be a bad option for ranged combat (something which the Paladin is lacking at) if extra options is what you are after.
If you are looking for versaitility, pick bard. I'd wait until level 13 to do that to gain the most benefit from multiclass spell slots, though.
All in all, a few levels of Hexlock is never a bad idea for Paladins but it raises some RP questions. You will basically be serving two masters, how does that work? How do you justify being a force of vengeance and justice while at the same time serving your warlock patron? It might be as easy as the goddess of justice granting you a magical weapon (your hexblade) or it might be that your quest for vengeance has turn dark and you are being corrupted by an evil power. But it's still something you should consider.
Thanks. Hard to pass up that ASI for sure. Good to know about Shield as that was the other tempting benefit. Also, hello fellow Texan!
Well, cgarciao is wrong about being able to cast the the Shield spell only once since you can always use your paladin slots to cast warlock spells. That said, you need to give up the shield (or weapon) to get the free hand. A free hand would also allow you to cast EB. That might not be a bad option for ranged combat (something which the Paladin is lacking at) if extra options is what you are after.
If you are looking for versaitility, pick bard. I'd wait until level 13 to do that to gain the most benefit from multiclass spell slots, though.
All in all, a few levels of Hexlock is never a bad idea for Paladins but it raises some RP questions. You will basically be serving two masters, how does that work? How do you justify being a force of vengeance and justice while at the same time serving your warlock patron? It might be as easy as the goddess of justice granting you a magical weapon (your hexblade) or it might be that your quest for vengeance has turn dark and you are being corrupted by an evil power. But it's still something you should consider.
Pray tell, where, exactly, did I say anything about being able to cast shield once?
Also, there need not be any conflict about serving two masters since paladins don't necessarily draw their power from a divine source rather than their conviction and oath. They're paladins, not clerics. If one took an oath of vengeance to defeat evil at any cost, selling your soul for more power, for example, is justifiably reasonable and ends up making the paladin feel like a spiritual martyr if nothing else.
I think you should increase Charisma on the next lvl, due to the Tiefling's Innate skill to be it. Even the Charisma gonna increase the magic damage, I suggest to go for it, because it also gonna let you get a nice bonus in deception/intimidation checks. Or, if you don't give a f*** in that build, let's focus a bit on Dexterity. What's a Pally withouth DEX + 2 ?? If this option still dosen't convince you, let's take a look at the Athlete feat. It let's you increase 1 point on Dexterity, which it allows you the chance to almost never get proned so easily. You'll be a badass at lvl 12 if you still remain pally with Vengeance Oath.
And, by the way, I suggest you should put the link directly to your Chararctersheet page, instead of downloading an screenshot on an external link.
Thanks. Hard to pass up that ASI for sure. Good to know about Shield as that was the other tempting benefit. Also, hello fellow Texan!
Well, cgarciao is wrong about being able to cast the the Shield spell only once since you can always use your paladin slots to cast warlock spells. That said, you need to give up the shield (or weapon) to get the free hand. A free hand would also allow you to cast EB. That might not be a bad option for ranged combat (something which the Paladin is lacking at) if extra options is what you are after.
If you are looking for versaitility, pick bard. I'd wait until level 13 to do that to gain the most benefit from multiclass spell slots, though.
All in all, a few levels of Hexlock is never a bad idea for Paladins but it raises some RP questions. You will basically be serving two masters, how does that work? How do you justify being a force of vengeance and justice while at the same time serving your warlock patron? It might be as easy as the goddess of justice granting you a magical weapon (your hexblade) or it might be that your quest for vengeance has turn dark and you are being corrupted by an evil power. But it's still something you should consider.
Pray tell, where, exactly, did I say anything about being able to cast shield once?
You implied it with your comment about the warlock only having one spell slot.
Also, there need not be any conflict about serving two masters since paladins don't necessarily draw their power from a divine source rather than their conviction and oath. They're paladins, not clerics. If one took an oath of vengeance to defeat evil at any cost, selling your soul for more power, for example, is justifiably reasonable and ends up making the paladin feel like a spiritual martyr if nothing else.
I know, that is why I wrote that part about ihow it might be easy. You basically just repepated what I said. :)
Implications? I said you'd get one slot. He wants slots, but a dip just gets you one. That has no bearing on the spells you get to cast. In fact, I even use a plural when referring to spells from hexblade, that should be implying enough what I meant.
You're a prepared caster with 3rd level spells. Change up your preps and actually cast spells instead of only smiting. You don't need to dip to make your character more dynamic. The dip is worse than keeping on the Paladin track at this point.
You're a prepared caster with 3rd level spells. Change up your preps and actually cast spells instead of only smiting. You don't need to dip to make your character more dynamic. The dip is worse than keeping on the Paladin track at this point.
You're a prepared caster with 3rd level spells. Change up your preps and actually cast spells instead of only smiting. You don't need to dip to make your character more dynamic. The dip is worse than keeping on the Paladin track at this point.
Why the dip is worse ????
That character is lvl 11. Next time he lvls up, he can take an ASI/Feat. He could take res:con, since he's got 15 CON. He could increase CHA from 16 to 18, and thereby increase all his saves for himself and his party, and improve his spell DC. He could take GWM and improve his damage a lot. He has many options that are all very powerful.
But if he dips one lvl into hexblade, he won't become SAD because he already put his STR at 20. If you can't be SAD, what's the point of the dip? All he gets is one more 1st lvl spell slot, and the hexblade's curse. Hexblade spells will not benefit him much either because he does not have warcaster. So, is it worth it to go hexblade over the other options? I don't think so. That's why the dip is worse.
Agreed, and at level 13 you get access to some really good 4th level spells (especially banishment but aura of life and aura odff purity are both situationally awesome). In your situation I would recommend one of 2 options:
ASI in Charisma (mainly to get or spell DC up and increase the power of your aura of protection but there are ither benfits as well) (probably the best option)
Resiliant Con: To increase the likelihood of keeping your concentration spell up and gain a few HP.
I don't think that it's too late to multi-class, at level 10. I am toying with the idea of my paladin going 11 pal / 9 warlock (hexblade). I would lose an ASI, but that doesn't matter as much to me. Although, if I later decide it does matter, I may go 12 pal / 8 warlock. But my current thinking is the level 5 pact spell slots and another invocation is worth as much or more than an ASI/feat.
What bothers me the most is losing Cleansing Touch. If I decide not to go with my current plan, that will be the reason. The ability to end one spell effect without having to make a roll to dispel or the like is pretty darn powerful! Invocations have give a lot of flavor and color to roleplay, also, though. So the more the merrier imo. :)
Agreed, and at level 13 you get access to some really good 4th level spells (especially banishment but aura of life and aura odff purity are both situationally awesome). In your situation I would recommend one of 2 options:
ASI in Charisma (mainly to get or spell DC up and increase the power of your aura of protection but there are ither benfits as well) (probably the best option)
Resiliant Con: To increase the likelihood of keeping your concentration spell up and gain a few HP.
Not trying to disagree. You make a fine case. Just want to point out that a warlock can get banishment at 7th level, so not necessarily losing out on that one.
Also, Resilient (Con) is great and I may very well take it, but a warlock can take Eldritch Mind invocation and gain advantage on Con saves to maintain concentration. So that helps with concentration checks.
That ASI is certainly hard to ignore at 12, but for me it's the fact that dipping means those 4th level spells are basically never happening. Considering how slow the paladin progression is, being so close and actually getting a chance to unlock them only to not go for it feels like a waste. A handful of invocations and cantrips or a pegasus? Pretty obvious choice for me.
I don't think that it's too late to multi-class, at level 10. I am toying with the idea of my paladin going 11 pal / 9 warlock (hexblade). I would lose an ASI, but that doesn't matter as much to me. Although, if I later decide it does matter, I may go 12 pal / 8 warlock. But my current thinking is the level 5 pact spell slots and another invocation is worth as much or more than an ASI/feat.
What bothers me the most is losing Cleansing Touch. If I decide not to go with my current plan, that will be the reason. The ability to end one spell effect without having to make a roll to dispel or the like is pretty darn powerful! Invocations have give a lot of flavor and color to roleplay, also, though. So the more the merrier imo. :)
I have no idea what this dude's campaign looks like, but it's never a good thing to plan progression based on a lvl 20 basis. Chances are his campaign's going to end sooner rather than later. Is it a home game or AL?That said, I honestly have no idea what this guy's plans are either. Is he wanting more warlock levels? Does he intend on just a level of hexblade? Honestly, I love hexblade paladins and I've got one I'm building towards 11/9 split too, but I planned around it from the start and might not be this guy's cup of tea. These questions are important to consider to give more feedback.
I don't think that it's too late to multi-class, at level 10. I am toying with the idea of my paladin going 11 pal / 9 warlock (hexblade). I would lose an ASI, but that doesn't matter as much to me. Although, if I later decide it does matter, I may go 12 pal / 8 warlock. But my current thinking is the level 5 pact spell slots and another invocation is worth as much or more than an ASI/feat.
What bothers me the most is losing Cleansing Touch. If I decide not to go with my current plan, that will be the reason. The ability to end one spell effect without having to make a roll to dispel or the like is pretty darn powerful! Invocations have give a lot of flavor and color to roleplay, also, though. So the more the merrier imo. :)
I have no idea what this dude's campaign looks like, but it's never a good thing to plan progression based on a lvl 20 basis. Chances are his campaign's going to end sooner rather than later. Is it a home game or AL?That said, I honestly have no idea what this guy's plans are either. Is he wanting more warlock levels? Does he intend on just a level of hexblade? Honestly, I love hexblade paladins and I've got one I'm building towards 11/9 split too, but I planned around it from the start and might not be this guy's cup of tea. These questions are important to consider to give more feedback.
Yeah, I knew where I was going from the start also. Maybe not exactly, but had a solid concept. So I have kept my Str at 16 and used my ASI/Feat for other things than bumping a stat I was going to replace as my combat modifier. Armor of Hexes at 10th level is also very nice. Hmmm...10 paladin / 10 hexblade? 9 paladin / 11 hexblade? lol
Hi, I think it's wise to get my Improved Divine Smite at lvl 11 (I'm almost there) but was thinking about mc'ing Warlock at lvl 12.
I've uploaded a screenshot of myTiefling Paladin with Oath of Vengeance here: https://ibb.co/VSXptpt
The only reason I'd mc is for the spell slot benefit and for a bit more dynamic gameplay. I love being a tank destroyer but I'm a one-trick pony and that can get a bit old since my turns are usually quite short. Hit, smite, repeat :) - though of course it's fun to usually deal the killing blow.
Any advice appreciated!
Nahh, it's too late at this point to be worth it, you'd benefit more from the extra ASI to grab more CHA or GWM or something.
You wouldn't even benefit from hex warrior feature, no agonizing blast means EB will be a weak option, and you'd only have one slot. Unless you have warcaster you won't be able to use spells like shield in combat given this looks like a sword and shield build.
Thanks. Hard to pass up that ASI for sure. Good to know about Shield as that was the other tempting benefit. Also, hello fellow Texan!
No problem!
Hexblade is something that shines after at least two levels for those invocations, though I'd argue the biggest draw is eldritch smite which only becomes available at lvl 5. It's something that functions best when you plan around it from the start, by taking feats like warcaster early on, or by using a two-handed weapon build to input somatic components without the feat, and it increasing CHA over anything else (although STR based hexadins works when a belt is involved, but does feel redundant).
Ultimately, you want to do what feels best for fun and story. If you want to change to a two-handed weapon build, then sure one lvl could work and you would be able to use the curse for an extra boost in damage, and you'd still access shield and EB albeit used as a mediocre last ditch effort to hurt things from a distance.
If you want more total spell slots then go Sorcerer or Bard. Warlock spell slots while separate to your normal spells slots also start at lvl 1 so will not really be terribly powerful until you get to around at least lock 3 and they scale to lvl 2 slots.
Sorcerers give you a subclass right off the bat. Bards are a little slower til you get to the subclass but gives you interesting options with Bardic Inspiration and the alternative uses of it from some subclasses.
Well, cgarciao is wrong about being able to cast the the Shield spell only once since you can always use your paladin slots to cast warlock spells. That said, you need to give up the shield (or weapon) to get the free hand. A free hand would also allow you to cast EB. That might not be a bad option for ranged combat (something which the Paladin is lacking at) if extra options is what you are after.
If you are looking for versaitility, pick bard. I'd wait until level 13 to do that to gain the most benefit from multiclass spell slots, though.
All in all, a few levels of Hexlock is never a bad idea for Paladins but it raises some RP questions. You will basically be serving two masters, how does that work? How do you justify being a force of vengeance and justice while at the same time serving your warlock patron? It might be as easy as the goddess of justice granting you a magical weapon (your hexblade) or it might be that your quest for vengeance has turn dark and you are being corrupted by an evil power. But it's still something you should consider.
Pray tell, where, exactly, did I say anything about being able to cast shield once?
Also, there need not be any conflict about serving two masters since paladins don't necessarily draw their power from a divine source rather than their conviction and oath. They're paladins, not clerics. If one took an oath of vengeance to defeat evil at any cost, selling your soul for more power, for example, is justifiably reasonable and ends up making the paladin feel like a spiritual martyr if nothing else.
I think you should increase Charisma on the next lvl, due to the Tiefling's Innate skill to be it. Even the Charisma gonna increase the magic damage, I suggest to go for it, because it also gonna let you get a nice bonus in deception/intimidation checks.
Or, if you don't give a f*** in that build, let's focus a bit on Dexterity. What's a Pally withouth DEX + 2 ?? If this option still dosen't convince you, let's take a look at the Athlete feat. It let's you increase 1 point on Dexterity, which it allows you the chance to almost never get proned so easily. You'll be a badass at lvl 12 if you still remain pally with Vengeance Oath.
And, by the way, I suggest you should put the link directly to your Chararctersheet page, instead of downloading an screenshot on an external link.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
You implied it with your comment about the warlock only having one spell slot.
I know, that is why I wrote that part about ihow it might be easy. You basically just repepated what I said. :)
Implications? I said you'd get one slot. He wants slots, but a dip just gets you one. That has no bearing on the spells you get to cast. In fact, I even use a plural when referring to spells from hexblade, that should be implying enough what I meant.
[REDACTED]
If your going to multiclass do so at 13 at that point.
You're a prepared caster with 3rd level spells. Change up your preps and actually cast spells instead of only smiting. You don't need to dip to make your character more dynamic. The dip is worse than keeping on the Paladin track at this point.
Why the dip is worse ????
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
That character is lvl 11. Next time he lvls up, he can take an ASI/Feat. He could take res:con, since he's got 15 CON. He could increase CHA from 16 to 18, and thereby increase all his saves for himself and his party, and improve his spell DC. He could take GWM and improve his damage a lot. He has many options that are all very powerful.
But if he dips one lvl into hexblade, he won't become SAD because he already put his STR at 20. If you can't be SAD, what's the point of the dip? All he gets is one more 1st lvl spell slot, and the hexblade's curse. Hexblade spells will not benefit him much either because he does not have warcaster. So, is it worth it to go hexblade over the other options? I don't think so. That's why the dip is worse.
Agreed, and at level 13 you get access to some really good 4th level spells (especially banishment but aura of life and aura odff purity are both situationally awesome). In your situation I would recommend one of 2 options:
ASI in Charisma (mainly to get or spell DC up and increase the power of your aura of protection but there are ither benfits as well) (probably the best option)
Resiliant Con: To increase the likelihood of keeping your concentration spell up and gain a few HP.
I don't think that it's too late to multi-class, at level 10. I am toying with the idea of my paladin going 11 pal / 9 warlock (hexblade). I would lose an ASI, but that doesn't matter as much to me. Although, if I later decide it does matter, I may go 12 pal / 8 warlock. But my current thinking is the level 5 pact spell slots and another invocation is worth as much or more than an ASI/feat.
What bothers me the most is losing Cleansing Touch. If I decide not to go with my current plan, that will be the reason. The ability to end one spell effect without having to make a roll to dispel or the like is pretty darn powerful! Invocations have give a lot of flavor and color to roleplay, also, though. So the more the merrier imo. :)
Not trying to disagree. You make a fine case. Just want to point out that a warlock can get banishment at 7th level, so not necessarily losing out on that one.
Also, Resilient (Con) is great and I may very well take it, but a warlock can take Eldritch Mind invocation and gain advantage on Con saves to maintain concentration. So that helps with concentration checks.
That ASI is certainly hard to ignore at 12, but for me it's the fact that dipping means those 4th level spells are basically never happening. Considering how slow the paladin progression is, being so close and actually getting a chance to unlock them only to not go for it feels like a waste. A handful of invocations and cantrips or a pegasus? Pretty obvious choice for me.
I have no idea what this dude's campaign looks like, but it's never a good thing to plan progression based on a lvl 20 basis. Chances are his campaign's going to end sooner rather than later. Is it a home game or AL?That said, I honestly have no idea what this guy's plans are either. Is he wanting more warlock levels? Does he intend on just a level of hexblade? Honestly, I love hexblade paladins and I've got one I'm building towards 11/9 split too, but I planned around it from the start and might not be this guy's cup of tea. These questions are important to consider to give more feedback.
Yeah, I knew where I was going from the start also. Maybe not exactly, but had a solid concept. So I have kept my Str at 16 and used my ASI/Feat for other things than bumping a stat I was going to replace as my combat modifier. Armor of Hexes at 10th level is also very nice. Hmmm...10 paladin / 10 hexblade? 9 paladin / 11 hexblade? lol