I dipped into Bard with my paladin and I don't regret it one bit. I'm not terribly impressed by the level 20 ability of the Oath of Ancients paladin. Had that been more appealing to me I think I would have stayed the course.
Single class for sure. Perhaps a 1 lvl dip in Cleric for cantrips and domain power + roleplay, but that's it.
I kinda did that and ended up with a cleric of war :P
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
I do Multiclass to add to the theme of my devotion my character is a Paladin of the Silver Flame... now i play vengeance paladin but after my first play though with the character i didnt get a feeling that Faith in one diety is any different then another so now i multi class with 7 lvls of Warlock Archfiend pact..... now i know that if you look at the classes then i come off as a fallen paladin but i only take Green flame blade, blade ward and true strike as cantrips and when it comes to spells i take only fire spells. So at the end of the day i Roleplay it as I'm a paladin that though constant destruction of evil and battle in the name of the Silver Flame I have gained favor with the flame and have been bestowed its power to disintegrate evil all over the world
I had considered multiclassing into a cleric to grab some cantrips, but I just love the level 20 powers too much to forsake them only for a few cantrips.
Paladin 20 is pretty solid, so there's no pressing need to multiclass. However, Warlock and Sorcerer become really strong options for Smites. Warlock lets you Smite every short rest and Sorcerer just gives you a ton of slots with which to Smite (and sorcerer points to convert into more Smites). It might be on the low end of Paladin levels, but Paladin 2/Warlock 2/Sorcerer X is all about Smiting. Then there's Tome Lock 3/ Paladin X for Shillelagh which lets you focus everything on Charisma. Like I said, there's no need to multiclass, but there's plenty of ways you can get benefits for doing it.
I have a Paladin/Lock that is working out very nicely, eventually he'll be a Vengeance Paladin 16/Fiend Warlock 4. Gives me a lot of ranged utility which I was lacking as a pure pally and some AOE as well. Basically he was tricked by a fiend posing as his deity to pursue he warlock arts, then found out it was a trick and went back to a paladin and swore an oath of vengeance against the fiend who tricked him.
I have a Paladin/Lock that is working out very nicely, eventually he'll be a Vengeance Paladin 16/Fiend Warlock 4. Gives me a lot of ranged utility which I was lacking as a pure pally and some AOE as well. Basically he was tricked by a fiend posing as his deity to pursue he warlock arts, then found out it was a trick and went back to a paladin and swore an oath of vengeance against the fiend who tricked him.
i have a similar paladin but i went 13p/7w its really fun being able to run in and beat people down then get hit and return with hellish rebuke
Although I think that Paladin is one of those classes that already tends towards roleplay heavy players. So why would you stray away from the oath, the one most important value in your life to learn sorcerer magic of sorts?
Vengeance Paladin and Warlock (Any) or Ancients Paladin and Fey Warlock are both top-quality RP reasons to multiclass. Not to mention, multiclassing doesn't mean you're straying from the Oath. Sorcerer is a bit more difficult, but certainly not unreasonable if you start Sorcerer for the first few levels. Both Vengeance and Crown can fit well with most of the Sorcerer bloodlines.
11PLD/5WLK/3FTR is an absolute monster Polearm master with quarterstaff shilellagh and guidance (pact of tome) dueling for +6-10dmg a round, improved divine smite for 3-5d8 a round (uncrit) Max CHA for incredible saves Get your own haste from vengeance or magic resistance from ancients Use devils sight/darkness for advantage or vow of emnity for a 19% crit chance (champion), making smite incredibly strong Action surge, second wind, 3rd lvl warlock slots start fighter for CON save proficiency - never break concentration heavy armor master + dark ones blessing (fiend patron) for serious defensive power
I decided to take my paladin and multi with warlock. So right I'm riding at oath of vengeance paladin 6 and the old one warlock 4. Basically I follow the guidance of the old one to extract vengeance on whomever he sees fit. So I'm his hand of vengeance. I gotta say I love the Eldritch blast cantrip. Fun stuff. Plus between me and the rogue/sorceror in our group we decided to start collecting body parts of the people we take out. I collect a finger from each. He's decided to start a collection *****. It's quite entertaining
Although I think that Paladin is one of those classes that already tends towards roleplay heavy players. So why would you stray away from the oath, the one most important value in your life to learn sorcerer magic of sorts?
THIS! Like, I understand that min-maxing players will make up any background to explain why their 2h-weapon wielding Vengeance Paladin + Sorcerer/Warlock makes sense. But we all know it's because you want replenishing spell slots for smiting. But, you'll notice an overwhelming majority (just in this thread) is combining with Warlock.
Embrace and admit the min-max. It's okay; we've all done it. I admit it doing it in 3.5e (where it was already a broken class BEFORE the supplemental books). DeathTouch admits it, and does a really good job of explaining how it can be so stupidly broken OP.
Examples of Paladin Multiclassing that actually makes sense from an RP standpoint: Starting Fighter and progressing into Paladin when you discover your calling; starting off as a Cleric and picking up the Sword/Shield to defend your order. A Paladin that was trained as a Rogue after being assigned to become an inquisitor-like agent for the church.
Again, anyone can make up a story for any class combination, but there's a reason you see more Vengeance Paladins + Warlock than you do Ancients Paladins + Druid/Ranger (similar situation), and it's not for the RP possibilities.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Oath of the Ancients, Fey Patron, Druid, Nature Cleric, Ranger, Wild Magic Sorcerer all have overlapping thematic elements if RP-ing is huge for you.
While I totally build with mechanics in mind I also really enjoy RPing. I RP my Vengeance/Fiend like so: He is a supernatural detective, background sage - researcher. He became a paladin to protect him from the occult, but once his colleague was slaughtered, he turned to vengeance. proficiencies: Arcana History Insight Investigation Religion
He started off as a Paladin and out-lawyered a fiend for a sweet deal to get powers like comprehend languages, devils sight, eldritch sight, pact of the tome (guidance) in order to help him better investigate.
And 3.5e Paladin? I never saw one nor played one. I always thought them pretty crappy, but I never really bothered getting into them, since I disleked all the horse stuff. What made them so powerful in your book?
Charisma modifier to saving throws, Immunity to fear and disease, Lay on Hands was Cha mod * Paladin level healing/damage to undead, and Turn Undead a number of times = Cha mod + 3. The mount is an amazing asset and adds to damage dealt as well (Warhorse was great). A sword/shield human paladin was basically unkillable, just with core abilities. Add in the supplements and you've got a god.
Defenders of the Faith: Wait until 8th level and get a Griffon mount (or work for a Dragon Mount) Divine Might feat = Use 1 turn undead: +Cha mod to damage for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod Divine Shield feat = Use 1 turn undead: +Cha mod to shield AC and attacks for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod Divine Vigor feat = Use 1 turn undead: +10 feet to movement and +2 to Constitution for a number of minutes equal to your Cha mod. Armor/Shield of Command (+2 Market Value): +4 competence bonus to Charisma and +2 moral bonus on Will Saves to all allies within 30 feet.
Feats: A human paladin takes Power Attack* and Improved Shield Bash* as its first two feats. A placeholder feat for 3rd level and then retraining at 4th level to get Divine Shield. Extra Turning* at 6th level, then whichever you want (Might or Vigor) at 9th and the other at 12th. Improved Initiative/Toughness/Weapon Focus/Whatever for later levels
* denotes prerequisite feats
So by level 12 you are looking at - Stats (using standard arrray): 18 Cha (22 with armor/shield of Command or Eagle's Splendor, 26 with both), 14 Str, 13 Wis, 12 Con, 10 Dex, and 8 Int. - Average HP: 66 (78 with Divine Vigor) - Minimum 22 AC: Full Plate and Steel Shield (one which is a +2 of Command) - Maximum 30 AC (with Eagle's Splendor and Divine Shield) - Attack Bonus: +14/+9/+4 (with regular weapon) - Base Saves: Fort +13, Ref +8, Will +9 - Boosted Saves (with Armor/Shield of Command, Divine Vigor, and Eagle's Splendor): Fort +18, Ref +12, Will +16 - Lay on Hands Amount: 48 (72 with Armor/Shield of Command or Eagle's Splendor, 96 with both). - # of Turn Undead/day: 8 (10 with Armor/Shield of Command or Eagle's Splendor, 12 with both). - Smite Evil (with Eagle's Splendor and Divine Shield): +8 to attack; +12 to damage
Also, since Lay on Hands on undead is a touch attack and touch attacks are considered melee attacks in 3e (or at least in 3.5e), you can smite evil/lay on hands a Vampire/Lich/any evil undead and deal 108 damage with a +22 to touch AC with this build. You can also Power Attack for up to 12 more damage if you REALLY want to (+10 against touch AC is still pretty good).
Which I did (much to the surprise/disdain of my DM) when he had one of the main story villains ride up to the village to taunt/threaten us and make us do a quest for her.
I charged her on my mount, lept off, and attempted to tackle her off her mount (rolling a 20 on the Tumbling check for the leaping off and high enough on the Bull Rush attempt to knock her off the mount). He for some reason didn't see the Lay on Hands coming, because he let me get an attack against her (probably assuming I was going to try to pin and save her, I guess?), and she apparently wasn't that powerful yet as she was a former ally of ours who was recently turned, so she only had like 20 or so more HP than us.
Bright side: we ended up not having to go on the mission she came to send us on since her coffin was too far away for her to survive the trek back via gaseous form. Dark side (for the DM anyway): it pretty much destroyed like 3 sessions worth of material he had prepared.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
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As a paladin would you take a dip in another class for versatility while delaying power gains in primary class. Starting at level one of course.
Single class for sure. Perhaps a 1 lvl dip in Cleric for cantrips and domain power + roleplay, but that's it.
I dipped into Bard with my paladin and I don't regret it one bit. I'm not terribly impressed by the level 20 ability of the Oath of Ancients paladin. Had that been more appealing to me I think I would have stayed the course.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
I took a level of two of Monk back in the day (3.0) with my Pally to get the +WIS AC bonus. Don't see the point of doing it now, though.
I do Multiclass to add to the theme of my devotion my character is a Paladin of the Silver Flame... now i play vengeance paladin but after my first play though with the character i didnt get a feeling that Faith in one diety is any different then another so now i multi class with 7 lvls of Warlock Archfiend pact..... now i know that if you look at the classes then i come off as a fallen paladin but i only take Green flame blade, blade ward and true strike as cantrips and when it comes to spells i take only fire spells. So at the end of the day i Roleplay it as I'm a paladin that though constant destruction of evil and battle in the name of the Silver Flame I have gained favor with the flame and have been bestowed its power to disintegrate evil all over the world
I had considered multiclassing into a cleric to grab some cantrips, but I just love the level 20 powers too much to forsake them only for a few cantrips.
Paladin 20 is pretty solid, so there's no pressing need to multiclass. However, Warlock and Sorcerer become really strong options for Smites. Warlock lets you Smite every short rest and Sorcerer just gives you a ton of slots with which to Smite (and sorcerer points to convert into more Smites). It might be on the low end of Paladin levels, but Paladin 2/Warlock 2/Sorcerer X is all about Smiting. Then there's Tome Lock 3/ Paladin X for Shillelagh which lets you focus everything on Charisma. Like I said, there's no need to multiclass, but there's plenty of ways you can get benefits for doing it.
I have a Paladin/Lock that is working out very nicely, eventually he'll be a Vengeance Paladin 16/Fiend Warlock 4. Gives me a lot of ranged utility which I was lacking as a pure pally and some AOE as well. Basically he was tricked by a fiend posing as his deity to pursue he warlock arts, then found out it was a trick and went back to a paladin and swore an oath of vengeance against the fiend who tricked him.
11PLD/5WLK/3FTR is an absolute monster
Polearm master with quarterstaff
shilellagh and guidance (pact of tome)
dueling for +6-10dmg a round, improved divine smite for 3-5d8 a round (uncrit)
Max CHA for incredible saves
Get your own haste from vengeance or magic resistance from ancients
Use devils sight/darkness for advantage or vow of emnity for a 19% crit chance (champion), making smite incredibly strong
Action surge, second wind, 3rd lvl warlock slots
start fighter for CON save proficiency - never break concentration
heavy armor master + dark ones blessing (fiend patron) for serious defensive power
Unrepentent min/maxer and multiclass specialist
I decided to take my paladin and multi with warlock. So right I'm riding at oath of vengeance paladin 6 and the old one warlock 4. Basically I follow the guidance of the old one to extract vengeance on whomever he sees fit. So I'm his hand of vengeance. I gotta say I love the Eldritch blast cantrip. Fun stuff. Plus between me and the rogue/sorceror in our group we decided to start collecting body parts of the people we take out. I collect a finger from each. He's decided to start a collection *****. It's quite entertaining
I pretty much always Multiclass at some point
Embrace and admit the min-max. It's okay; we've all done it. I admit it doing it in 3.5e (where it was already a broken class BEFORE the supplemental books). DeathTouch admits it, and does a really good job of explaining how it can be so stupidly broken OP.
Examples of Paladin Multiclassing that actually makes sense from an RP standpoint: Starting Fighter and progressing into Paladin when you discover your calling; starting off as a Cleric and picking up the Sword/Shield to defend your order. A Paladin that was trained as a Rogue after being assigned to become an inquisitor-like agent for the church.
Again, anyone can make up a story for any class combination, but there's a reason you see more Vengeance Paladins + Warlock than you do Ancients Paladins + Druid/Ranger (similar situation), and it's not for the RP possibilities.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Oath of the Ancients, Fey Patron, Druid, Nature Cleric, Ranger, Wild Magic Sorcerer all have overlapping thematic elements if RP-ing is huge for you.
While I totally build with mechanics in mind I also really enjoy RPing. I RP my Vengeance/Fiend like so:
He is a supernatural detective, background sage - researcher. He became a paladin to protect him from the occult, but once his colleague was slaughtered, he turned to vengeance.
proficiencies:
Arcana
History
Insight
Investigation
Religion
He started off as a Paladin and out-lawyered a fiend for a sweet deal to get powers like comprehend languages, devils sight, eldritch sight, pact of the tome (guidance) in order to help him better investigate.
Unrepentent min/maxer and multiclass specialist
Defenders of the Faith:
Wait until 8th level and get a Griffon mount (or work for a Dragon Mount)
Divine Might feat = Use 1 turn undead: +Cha mod to damage for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod
Divine Shield feat = Use 1 turn undead: +Cha mod to shield AC and attacks for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod
Divine Vigor feat = Use 1 turn undead: +10 feet to movement and +2 to Constitution for a number of minutes equal to your Cha mod.
Armor/Shield of Command (+2 Market Value): +4 competence bonus to Charisma and +2 moral bonus on Will Saves to all allies within 30 feet.
Feats: A human paladin takes Power Attack* and Improved Shield Bash* as its first two feats. A placeholder feat for 3rd level and then retraining at 4th level to get Divine Shield. Extra Turning* at 6th level, then whichever you want (Might or Vigor) at 9th and the other at 12th. Improved Initiative/Toughness/Weapon Focus/Whatever for later levels
* denotes prerequisite feats
So by level 12 you are looking at
- Stats (using standard arrray): 18 Cha (22 with armor/shield of Command or Eagle's Splendor, 26 with both), 14 Str, 13 Wis, 12 Con, 10 Dex, and 8 Int.
- Average HP: 66 (78 with Divine Vigor)
- Minimum 22 AC: Full Plate and Steel Shield (one which is a +2 of Command)
- Maximum 30 AC (with Eagle's Splendor and Divine Shield)
- Attack Bonus: +14/+9/+4 (with regular weapon)
- Base Saves: Fort +13, Ref +8, Will +9
- Boosted Saves (with Armor/Shield of Command, Divine Vigor, and Eagle's Splendor): Fort +18, Ref +12, Will +16
- Lay on Hands Amount: 48 (72 with Armor/Shield of Command or Eagle's Splendor, 96 with both).
- # of Turn Undead/day: 8 (10 with Armor/Shield of Command or Eagle's Splendor, 12 with both).
- Smite Evil (with Eagle's Splendor and Divine Shield): +8 to attack; +12 to damage
Also, since Lay on Hands on undead is a touch attack and touch attacks are considered melee attacks in 3e (or at least in 3.5e), you can smite evil/lay on hands a Vampire/Lich/any evil undead and deal 108 damage with a +22 to touch AC with this build. You can also Power Attack for up to 12 more damage if you REALLY want to (+10 against touch AC is still pretty good).
Which I did (much to the surprise/disdain of my DM) when he had one of the main story villains ride up to the village to taunt/threaten us and make us do a quest for her.
I charged her on my mount, lept off, and attempted to tackle her off her mount (rolling a 20 on the Tumbling check for the leaping off and high enough on the Bull Rush attempt to knock her off the mount). He for some reason didn't see the Lay on Hands coming, because he let me get an attack against her (probably assuming I was going to try to pin and save her, I guess?), and she apparently wasn't that powerful yet as she was a former ally of ours who was recently turned, so she only had like 20 or so more HP than us.
Bright side: we ended up not having to go on the mission she came to send us on since her coffin was too far away for her to survive the trek back via gaseous form.
Dark side (for the DM anyway): it pretty much destroyed like 3 sessions worth of material he had prepared.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.