I'll also throw Paladin/Bard into that list. Both feed off of Charisma for their spells, and Lore Bard's early Magical Secrets can give you some wonderful options if you invest that far.
Roleplay-wise you can spin the singing/musicianship into hymns, or prayers, or holy battle chants. It makes for some fun flavour.
I have an Oath of Ancients Paladin/Lore Bard. Roleplay-wise they go great together, and I've had a lot of fun with it.
I convinced a friend to do an Oath of Vengeance/Valor Bard. Sort of a Warrior Poet kind of thing.
I don't mean to Necro a two-month old thread, however it appears to still be on the front page so...
...after reading many of the responses in this thread I'm curious about how multi-classing is done. For instance, many are saying they find it difficult to imagine a Paladin multi-classing into anything else because they would be giving up their Oaths, but that confuses me.
Let's say I'm a level 5 Paladin, and I multi-class to fighter for my 6th and 7th character level... could I then put my 8th character level into Paladin (thus making me a 6th Level paladin/2nd Level fighter)? If that's true, then a character doesn't necessarily multi-class "away" from their original class. If I'm the character from that example, then I'm still a Paladin staying true to my Oath despite taking some time to learn how to be a better fighter (especially if the purpose of taking X multi-class character levels was to help better fulfill my Oath). At least that's how I see it. Am I wrong in anything I've said so far?
I don't mean to Necro a two-month old thread, however it appears to still be on the front page so...
...after reading many of the responses in this thread I'm curious about how multi-classing is done. For instance, many are saying they find it difficult to imagine a Paladin multi-classing into anything else because they would be giving up their Oaths, but that confuses me.
Let's say I'm a level 5 Paladin, and I multi-class to fighter for my 6th and 7th character level... could I then put my 8th character level into Paladin (thus making me a 6th Level paladin/2nd Level fighter)? If that's true, then a character doesn't necessarily multi-class "away" from their original class. If I'm the character from that example, then I'm still a Paladin staying true to my Oath despite taking some time to learn how to be a better fighter (especially if the purpose of taking X multi-class character levels was to help better fulfill my Oath). At least that's how I see it. Am I wrong in anything I've said so far?
Absolutely nothing wrong :) Technically, there is no restriction for an Oath to take multiple classes. The Oath comes into play when roleplaying the character.
As Filcat said, there isn't a rule against it. I think the argument others were making is that once you go into Paladin, the nature of a Paladin is to do whatever they can to fulfill their oath at all costs. If you already are a Paladin, and "forego" advancement of your Paladin ways, by say taking a level of Fighter instead, the thought is you are, not abandoning your oath, but you aren't doing EVERYTHING you can to advance it.
It really comes down to what you believe a Paladin to be. As a DM I wouldn't penalize or look down on a Paladin who multiclassed, unless it absolutely didn't make sense from a character perspective (why would a Paladin suddenly want to be a warlock, for example). If they were using an Oath/Pact combo that actually went together in story, I wouldn't have an issue.
As a DM I wouldn't penalize or look down on a Paladin who multiclassed, unless it absolutely didn't make sense from a character perspective (why would a Paladin suddenly want to be a warlock, for example). If they were using an Oath/Pact combo that actually went together in story, I wouldn't have an issue.
Let me see what I can come up with.
Ancients paladin/Archfey warlock
Devotion paladin/Celestial warlock
Vengeance paladin/Hexblade warlock
Conquest paladin/Fiend warlock
Redemtion paladin/Celestial warlock
Conquest paladin/Hexblade warlock
Treachery paladin/Fiend warlock
Ancients paladin/Undying warlock
Crown paladin/Undying warlock
Vengeance paladin/Fiend warlock
Oathbreaker paladin/rogue
Treachery paladin/rogue
I'm pretty sure I'm missing a couple.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
As I said in the second sentence quoted, if they were using an Oath/Pact combo that actually went together in story, I wouldn't have an issue. Also I said as I would rule, not the way the book said, as I stated there isn't a rule against it, meaning it, like many things in D&D which make this game great, is open to interpretation. Not everything has to be an argument for argument's sake.
As I said in the second sentence quoted, if they were using an Oath/Pact combo that actually went together in story, I wouldn't have an issue. Also I said as I would rule, not the way the book said, as I stated there isn't a rule against it, meaning it, like many things in D&D which make this game great, is open to interpretation. Not everything has to be an argument for argument's sake.
All I did was suggest as many good combos as I could think of. Why does everyone take everything I say the wrong way on here?
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
OK. I have been lurking for a little bit trying to see if my idea has been played and I am not nutty for it.
Playing a long term campaign. We just hit LVL4. My character is a rough, outlander Dwarven Barbarian. Picked up on this adventuring party by their drunk Dwarven Fighter in a very questionable contract negotiation involving home brewed ale. These guys are great...they let me bash things and pay me. Seeing just how good their Cleric of Waukeen is at trade negotiations and making our group coin I am kinda on a wide eyed awe trip. Told the Cleric that if I was going to follow a God...Waukeen looks pretty damn good to me. The Cleric took me seriously. Had me hold a damaged artifact of Waukeen while he prayed to cleanse it with help of of Waukeenites.
I got a divine gift. Charisma bump making it possible to Multiclass into Paladin!
I am looking at making the full commitment to Paladin. And pursuing the Ancients path as a Paladin for Waukeen. Currently Bear Totem and just grabbed Sentinel. Going to Barb5 for the extra attack, then Paladin.
Long story. Has anyone bumped this way? I never have. Am I bonkers for this idea. My original thought was to go straight Barb....but darn this roleplay stuff!
I think that sounds like a lot of fun. I've never heard of a similar character.
The only mechanical negatives are: at 10th level, 5 Barbarian and 5 Paladin you won't get anything from the Paladin's Extra Attack as it doesn't stack. This is a "dead level".
You'll have very few Divine Sense uses due to low Cha.
Lay On Hands is Paladin Level dependent, not Cha dependent. It will be low because of M.Class, but that's expected.
You get a Fighting Style, at level 7, which can be pretty boss.
Most Paladin spells don't even care what your Cha mod is (there are no saves and no attack, they modify your Defense or Melee attack).
You get Smite as a Barbarian, which is pretty boss. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not casting a spell so you should be able to Smite while Raging.
You'll get some limited spell casting.
I love the idea of a raging Dwarven Barbarian of nature on a fey-mount.
Is the idea crazy? Yes.
Is being crazy bad? #%(@ no, that's why I like it.
Are there better mechanical builds? Sure.
Is this build a terrible mechanical decision (I say this because it can lower how fun the character is to play)? No, not significantly.
I have settled on the knowledge that this character will never be "great" as it were. Simply average will be a good way to describe his stats and skills. a Great supporting character.
But be damned if I don't love the idea of a Dwarf who regularly converses with animals (especially mounts). Standing in shiney plate slightly behind the Cleric...sticks and leaves in his beard assisting in trade negotiations with grunts and glares.
How many of you knew feats or stat increases at 4th level blocks are only unlocked WITHIN each profession and the only way to trigger them?
So, Paladin7/Warlock7 would still only have 2x feats = one triggering at total level 7(if raising levels evenly) and the second one at total level 8 then nothing again until total level 15...
Do this evenly with 3x Classes and it can be postponed until Level 10 before the multiclassed PC would see their first Feat = Paladin3/Warlock3/Sorceror4!!
Sageadvice.eu says this is confirmed about 2015 sometime. ORLY.
Honest showing of those enforcing this vs paying things out every 4 levels as from 3.5e just to gauge reaction.
How many of you knew feats or stat increases at 4th level blocks are only unlocked WITHIN each profession and the only way to trigger them?
So, Paladin7/Warlock7 would still only have 2x feats = one triggering at total level 7(if raising levels evenly) and the second one at total level 8 then nothing again until total level 15...
Do this evenly with 3x Classes and it can be postponed until Level 10 before the multiclassed PC would see their first Feat = Paladin3/Warlock3/Sorceror4!!
Sageadvice.eu says this is confirmed about 2015 sometime. ORLY.
Honest showing of those enforcing this vs paying things out every 4 levels as from 3.5e just to gauge reaction.
Yep ASI's are tied the class level not to the character level. It is because of how many abilities are in the first few levels of every class.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
That's one of the main deterrents to multi-classing, it delays your ASI/Feats. You would be crazy OP if you got an ASI/Feat a each total character level vs. class level.
I was looking at multi-classing my dragonborn paladin at level 6 to take 2 levels of Artificer. I will need to chat with my DM about it. Basically I would want my Pal to be doing research in his spare time and tinkering to make his wonderous item etc. He will be taking the Vengeance oath as well, since it fits with his background.
I've been personally looking into playing a Devotion Paladin that multiclasses into Divine Soul Sorcerer. On top of the extra spell slots for smites, I would have access to not only Paladin and Sorcerer spell lists, but the Cleric spell list as well. Later levels in Sorcerer lead to Metamagic, allowing me to either regenerate spell slots for more Smiting action or to Quicken any major action spells into Bonus Actions. Imagine inflicting two hits, both Divine Smites, then following up with a Quickened Inflict Wounds!
Also, the multiclass can provide Paladins with improvements to their roles in a party. A cast of Blur in chainmail and holding a shield means that whatever you are fighting has to contend with 20 AC at disadvantage. A Quickened Invisibility can give you ample room to Dash into position so you can nuke a target on your next turn, possibly with advantage if your DM allows it for the surprise. There's no end to the amount of cool stuff you can do.
I've been personally looking into playing a Devotion Paladin that multiclasses into Divine Soul Sorcerer. On top of the extra spell slots for smites, I would have access to not only Paladin and Sorcerer spell lists, but the Cleric spell list as well. Later levels in Sorcerer lead to Metamagic, allowing me to either regenerate spell slots for more Smiting action or to Quicken any major action spells into Bonus Actions. Imagine inflicting two hits, both Divine Smites, then following up with a Quickened Inflict Wounds!
Also, the multiclass can provide Paladins with improvements to their roles in a party. A cast of Blur in chainmail and holding a shield means that whatever you are fighting has to contend with 20 AC at disadvantage. A Quickened Invisibility can give you ample room to Dash into position so you can nuke a target on your next turn, possibly with advantage if your DM allows it for the surprise. There's no end to the amount of cool stuff you can do.
That is definitely possible, the Divine smite says nothing about CASTING a spell merely that you can expend a spell slot. Makes for a pretty angry burst of damage.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Although I think that Paladin is one of those classes that already tends towards roleplay heavy players. So why would you stray away from the oath, the one most important value in your life to learn sorcerer magic of sorts?
THIS! Like, I understand that min-maxing players will make up any background to explain why their 2h-weapon wielding Vengeance Paladin + Sorcerer/Warlock makes sense. But we all know it's because you want replenishing spell slots for smiting. But, you'll notice an overwhelming majority (just in this thread) is combining with Warlock.
Embrace and admit the min-max. It's okay; we've all done it. I admit it doing it in 3.5e (where it was already a broken class BEFORE the supplemental books). DeathTouch admits it, and does a really good job of explaining how it can be so stupidly broken OP.
Examples of Paladin Multiclassing that actually makes sense from an RP standpoint: Starting Fighter and progressing into Paladin when you discover your calling; starting off as a Cleric and picking up the Sword/Shield to defend your order. A Paladin that was trained as a Rogue after being assigned to become an inquisitor-like agent for the church.
Again, anyone can make up a story for any class combination, but there's a reason you see more Vengeance Paladins + Warlock than you do Ancients Paladins + Druid/Ranger (similar situation), and it's not for the RP possibilities.
...Yes it is, maybe not 100% of the cases, but a whole lot of people goes Lockadin because "Sith Lord" or "Dark Knight", without the hassle of been obligatory an Chaotic Evil guy in a group of Neutral/Good people.
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
I had an idea, as I peeked about the many oaths and things for Paladins, eventually settling on an Oath of the Crown under the worship of Pelor the Dawnfather. Say this sun-praising frontliner of a holy knight finds a strange weapon, a heavenly, celestial blade with seemingly a will all its own. The Temple of the Dawnfather has no records or insight on the make or means of the blade, or the soothing, yet commanding tone emanating from weapon to wielder. But the Paladin recalls a Warlock, either in the party on on his travels, that had summoned a weapon with similar properties, and thus decides to learn/train in the fundamentals of the Warlock's Blade-pact meditation, so that he can commune with, and learn to wield, the Celestial blade he'd bonded to.
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Working on a supplement for the adventure-minded. A project including (and crediting) homebrew subclasses from the community, a world of my own design, premade characters, magic items, and even a prologue adventure to start things off!
Past and Current Characters: Morgann 'Duskspear' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Paladin/Fighter/Warlock; Ephemeral 'Skye' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Artificer; Zaldrick Lawscrip of Orzhov, Hobgoblin Wizard; Eremys Spydrun, Shadar'kai Monk; Cuchulainn, Wood Elf Blood Hunter.
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I don't mean to Necro a two-month old thread, however it appears to still be on the front page so...
...after reading many of the responses in this thread I'm curious about how multi-classing is done. For instance, many are saying they find it difficult to imagine a Paladin multi-classing into anything else because they would be giving up their Oaths, but that confuses me.
Let's say I'm a level 5 Paladin, and I multi-class to fighter for my 6th and 7th character level... could I then put my 8th character level into Paladin (thus making me a 6th Level paladin/2nd Level fighter)? If that's true, then a character doesn't necessarily multi-class "away" from their original class. If I'm the character from that example, then I'm still a Paladin staying true to my Oath despite taking some time to learn how to be a better fighter (especially if the purpose of taking X multi-class character levels was to help better fulfill my Oath). At least that's how I see it. Am I wrong in anything I've said so far?
As Filcat said, there isn't a rule against it. I think the argument others were making is that once you go into Paladin, the nature of a Paladin is to do whatever they can to fulfill their oath at all costs. If you already are a Paladin, and "forego" advancement of your Paladin ways, by say taking a level of Fighter instead, the thought is you are, not abandoning your oath, but you aren't doing EVERYTHING you can to advance it.
It really comes down to what you believe a Paladin to be. As a DM I wouldn't penalize or look down on a Paladin who multiclassed, unless it absolutely didn't make sense from a character perspective (why would a Paladin suddenly want to be a warlock, for example). If they were using an Oath/Pact combo that actually went together in story, I wouldn't have an issue.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
I'm pretty sure I'm missing a couple.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
As I said in the second sentence quoted, if they were using an Oath/Pact combo that actually went together in story, I wouldn't have an issue. Also I said as I would rule, not the way the book said, as I stated there isn't a rule against it, meaning it, like many things in D&D which make this game great, is open to interpretation. Not everything has to be an argument for argument's sake.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
OK. I have been lurking for a little bit trying to see if my idea has been played and I am not nutty for it.
Playing a long term campaign. We just hit LVL4. My character is a rough, outlander Dwarven Barbarian. Picked up on this adventuring party by their drunk Dwarven Fighter in a very questionable contract negotiation involving home brewed ale.
These guys are great...they let me bash things and pay me. Seeing just how good their Cleric of Waukeen is at trade negotiations and making our group coin I am kinda on a wide eyed awe trip. Told the Cleric that if I was going to follow a God...Waukeen looks pretty damn good to me.
The Cleric took me seriously. Had me hold a damaged artifact of Waukeen while he prayed to cleanse it with help of of Waukeenites.
I got a divine gift. Charisma bump making it possible to Multiclass into Paladin!
I am looking at making the full commitment to Paladin. And pursuing the Ancients path as a Paladin for Waukeen.
Currently Bear Totem and just grabbed Sentinel. Going to Barb5 for the extra attack, then Paladin.
Long story. Has anyone bumped this way? I never have. Am I bonkers for this idea. My original thought was to go straight Barb....but darn this roleplay stuff!
Pain Heals, Chicks Dig Scars, Glory Lasts Forever!
Krazy8,
I think that sounds like a lot of fun. I've never heard of a similar character.
The only mechanical negatives are: at 10th level, 5 Barbarian and 5 Paladin you won't get anything from the Paladin's Extra Attack as it doesn't stack. This is a "dead level".
You'll have very few Divine Sense uses due to low Cha.
Lay On Hands is Paladin Level dependent, not Cha dependent. It will be low because of M.Class, but that's expected.
You get a Fighting Style, at level 7, which can be pretty boss.
Most Paladin spells don't even care what your Cha mod is (there are no saves and no attack, they modify your Defense or Melee attack).
You get Smite as a Barbarian, which is pretty boss. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not casting a spell so you should be able to Smite while Raging.
You'll get some limited spell casting.
I love the idea of a raging Dwarven Barbarian of nature on a fey-mount.
I have settled on the knowledge that this character will never be "great" as it were. Simply average will be a good way to describe his stats and skills. a Great supporting character.
But be damned if I don't love the idea of a Dwarf who regularly converses with animals (especially mounts). Standing in shiney plate slightly behind the Cleric...sticks and leaves in his beard assisting in trade negotiations with grunts and glares.
Pain Heals, Chicks Dig Scars, Glory Lasts Forever!
keep in mind that a paladin does not know he has levels,
so adding a fighter level for example would just represent that he was focusing on bettering his skills in order to better support his oaths,
or say a level in cleric representing his faith more then his martial skills.
ect
How many of you knew feats or stat increases at 4th level blocks are only unlocked WITHIN each profession and the only way to trigger them?
So, Paladin7/Warlock7 would still only have 2x feats = one triggering at total level 7(if raising levels evenly) and the second one at total level 8 then nothing again until total level 15...
Do this evenly with 3x Classes and it can be postponed until Level 10 before the multiclassed PC would see their first Feat = Paladin3/Warlock3/Sorceror4!!
Sageadvice.eu says this is confirmed about 2015 sometime. ORLY.
Honest showing of those enforcing this vs paying things out every 4 levels as from 3.5e just to gauge reaction.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
That's one of the main deterrents to multi-classing, it delays your ASI/Feats. You would be crazy OP if you got an ASI/Feat a each total character level vs. class level.
I was looking at multi-classing my dragonborn paladin at level 6 to take 2 levels of Artificer. I will need to chat with my DM about it. Basically I would want my Pal to be doing research in his spare time and tinkering to make his wonderous item etc. He will be taking the Vengeance oath as well, since it fits with his background.
Any thoughts, good or bad would be appreciated.
I've been personally looking into playing a Devotion Paladin that multiclasses into Divine Soul Sorcerer. On top of the extra spell slots for smites, I would have access to not only Paladin and Sorcerer spell lists, but the Cleric spell list as well. Later levels in Sorcerer lead to Metamagic, allowing me to either regenerate spell slots for more Smiting action or to Quicken any major action spells into Bonus Actions. Imagine inflicting two hits, both Divine Smites, then following up with a Quickened Inflict Wounds!
Also, the multiclass can provide Paladins with improvements to their roles in a party. A cast of Blur in chainmail and holding a shield means that whatever you are fighting has to contend with 20 AC at disadvantage. A Quickened Invisibility can give you ample room to Dash into position so you can nuke a target on your next turn, possibly with advantage if your DM allows it for the surprise. There's no end to the amount of cool stuff you can do.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I had an idea, as I peeked about the many oaths and things for Paladins, eventually settling on an Oath of the Crown under the worship of Pelor the Dawnfather. Say this sun-praising frontliner of a holy knight finds a strange weapon, a heavenly, celestial blade with seemingly a will all its own. The Temple of the Dawnfather has no records or insight on the make or means of the blade, or the soothing, yet commanding tone emanating from weapon to wielder. But the Paladin recalls a Warlock, either in the party on on his travels, that had summoned a weapon with similar properties, and thus decides to learn/train in the fundamentals of the Warlock's Blade-pact meditation, so that he can commune with, and learn to wield, the Celestial blade he'd bonded to.
Working on a supplement for the adventure-minded. A project including (and crediting) homebrew subclasses from the community, a world of my own design, premade characters, magic items, and even a prologue adventure to start things off!
Past and Current Characters: Morgann 'Duskspear' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Paladin/Fighter/Warlock; Ephemeral 'Skye' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Artificer; Zaldrick Lawscrip of Orzhov, Hobgoblin Wizard; Eremys Spydrun, Shadar'kai Monk; Cuchulainn, Wood Elf Blood Hunter.