So long story short, I've been running an Isekai campaign set in the Forgotten Realms since 2007 (3e) and we've crossed over two editions to 5e now. I have a Paladin DMPC (yes the others are cool with the idea) and as our group gears up for the eventual battle against Orcus at the end of the campaign, we're currently in Avernus to obtain the Sword of Zariel.
Now the question: if the Paladin DMPC obtains the sword, should they use it in the battle against Orcus OR try and redeem Zariel and then eventually quest for Carsomyr (greatsword holy avenger)? Which one is better? My character currently has a Charisma of 18.
So long story short, I've been running an Isekai campaign set in the Forgotten Realms since 2007 (3e) and we've crossed over two editions to 5e now. I have a Paladin DMPC (yes the others are cool with the idea) and as our group gears up for the eventual battle against Orcus at the end of the campaign, we're currently in Avernus to obtain the Sword of Zariel.
Now the question: if the Paladin DMPC obtains the sword, should they use it in the battle against Orcus OR try and redeem Zariel and then eventually quest for Carsomyr (greatsword holy avenger)? Which one is better? My character currently has a Charisma of 18.
As you're DM and it's a DMPC, I'd go for whatever narrative fits better for the party.
But to answer the question, The Sword of Zariel is definitely the stronger option, it's only weakness is that it lacks an enhancement bonus but you could get around this by casting Magic Weapon or Elemental Weapon. This said, the sword has so many beneficial effects that make it better than the Magic Resistance (adv. on saving throws) aura and +3 of a Holy Avenger. This shouldn't be a surprise, an Artifact Weapon (Sword of Zariel) should be better than a Legendary Weapon (Holy Avenger).
Thanks for the reply! For the story, it's really up to how the group handles it: they could fail and the sword is destroyed; Zariel could be redeemed and then she'd reclaim the sword; or we use it and claim it. Luckily I have all three scenarios planned out, should one happen.
Should Zariel be redeemed, she'd most likely offer the PCs the chance to help them, giving them a feather of hers to use a free Planar Ally effect in the last battle IF they play their cards right.
As for the weapon itself, unfortunately both Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon spells don't work because the sword isn't a non-magical weapon. Still, effects like Bless work, which I honestly didn't even think of. So yeah, obtaining the Sword of Zariel might be an overall better choice. Thanks!!
If you, as the DM, do not have a narrative reason for choosing one or the other - let the player characters decide. Have the Paladin NPC express doubt over one of two paths to walk, and have them seek the advice of the group. You could RP out the situation and let each character try to convince the NPC on taking one path or another. Have them each roll persuasion to apply to their arguments. Than tally up which path had the better arguments and better rolls, and have the NPC take that path.
Now instead of the DM narrating, the players get to feel as if they chose the story.
That's an interesting take, one I hadn't considered. It would certainly depend if they have the time for such a debate with the chaos of the end of the adventure going on, but it certainly adds some drama and it would feel more group oriented then just me picking.
I currently have a paladin that went through descent into avernus and redeemed zariel. I dont know if your campaign is similar but there were some Permanent benefits given to whoever retrieved her sword like 90 feet of Flight, truesight, 20 charisma and resistance to radiant and necrotic damage. We have currently moved onto Chains of Asmodeus to play until level 20 and my glory paladin has used redeeming zariel as a platform for some Fantastic roleplaying moments and character development. I got a greatsword holy avenger (now at level 15) and i can say for certain i dont regret the decision at all to give zariel her sword back. Holy avenger will be plenty poweful enough to suit your needs. A redeemed Zariel can then be brought back at anytime to help the story along or assist the group as needed.
I currently have a paladin that went through descent into avernus and redeemed zariel. I dont know if your campaign is similar but there were some Permanent benefits given to whoever retrieved her sword like 90 feet of Flight, truesight, 20 charisma and resistance to radiant and necrotic damage. We have currently moved onto Chains of Asmodeus to play until level 20 and my glory paladin has used redeeming zariel as a platform for some Fantastic roleplaying moments and character development. I got a greatsword holy avenger (now at level 15) and i can say for certain i dont regret the decision at all to give zariel her sword back. Holy avenger will be plenty poweful enough to suit your needs. A redeemed Zariel can then be brought back at anytime to help the story along or assist the group as needed.
In my game (over for a year or so), we redeemed Zariel and I lost the sword to her! It was a great roleplay moment, though. A bit disappointed that the DM didn't have anything in mind for my character to use, after that moment. So my character went back to using a +1 long sword! Quite the drop off, from +1 long sword to Sword of Zariel, then back to +1 long sword! lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So long story short, I've been running an Isekai campaign set in the Forgotten Realms since 2007 (3e) and we've crossed over two editions to 5e now. I have a Paladin DMPC (yes the others are cool with the idea) and as our group gears up for the eventual battle against Orcus at the end of the campaign, we're currently in Avernus to obtain the Sword of Zariel.
Now the question: if the Paladin DMPC obtains the sword, should they use it in the battle against Orcus OR try and redeem Zariel and then eventually quest for Carsomyr (greatsword holy avenger)? Which one is better? My character currently has a Charisma of 18.
As you're DM and it's a DMPC, I'd go for whatever narrative fits better for the party.
But to answer the question, The Sword of Zariel is definitely the stronger option, it's only weakness is that it lacks an enhancement bonus but you could get around this by casting Magic Weapon or Elemental Weapon. This said, the sword has so many beneficial effects that make it better than the Magic Resistance (adv. on saving throws) aura and +3 of a Holy Avenger. This shouldn't be a surprise, an Artifact Weapon (Sword of Zariel) should be better than a Legendary Weapon (Holy Avenger).
Thanks for the reply! For the story, it's really up to how the group handles it: they could fail and the sword is destroyed; Zariel could be redeemed and then she'd reclaim the sword; or we use it and claim it. Luckily I have all three scenarios planned out, should one happen.
Should Zariel be redeemed, she'd most likely offer the PCs the chance to help them, giving them a feather of hers to use a free Planar Ally effect in the last battle IF they play their cards right.
As for the weapon itself, unfortunately both Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon spells don't work because the sword isn't a non-magical weapon. Still, effects like Bless work, which I honestly didn't even think of. So yeah, obtaining the Sword of Zariel might be an overall better choice. Thanks!!
Ah good point, I forgot, it needs to be non-magical, how rarely I ever use those spells.
Yeah, I had to double check both spells to make sure because otherwise that would be a decent idea.
If you, as the DM, do not have a narrative reason for choosing one or the other - let the player characters decide. Have the Paladin NPC express doubt over one of two paths to walk, and have them seek the advice of the group. You could RP out the situation and let each character try to convince the NPC on taking one path or another. Have them each roll persuasion to apply to their arguments. Than tally up which path had the better arguments and better rolls, and have the NPC take that path.
Now instead of the DM narrating, the players get to feel as if they chose the story.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
That's an interesting take, one I hadn't considered. It would certainly depend if they have the time for such a debate with the chaos of the end of the adventure going on, but it certainly adds some drama and it would feel more group oriented then just me picking.
Redeem zariel.
I currently have a paladin that went through descent into avernus and redeemed zariel. I dont know if your campaign is similar but there were some Permanent benefits given to whoever retrieved her sword like 90 feet of Flight, truesight, 20 charisma and resistance to radiant and necrotic damage. We have currently moved onto Chains of Asmodeus to play until level 20 and my glory paladin has used redeeming zariel as a platform for some Fantastic roleplaying moments and character development. I got a greatsword holy avenger (now at level 15) and i can say for certain i dont regret the decision at all to give zariel her sword back. Holy avenger will be plenty poweful enough to suit your needs. A redeemed Zariel can then be brought back at anytime to help the story along or assist the group as needed.
In my game (over for a year or so), we redeemed Zariel and I lost the sword to her! It was a great roleplay moment, though. A bit disappointed that the DM didn't have anything in mind for my character to use, after that moment. So my character went back to using a +1 long sword! Quite the drop off, from +1 long sword to Sword of Zariel, then back to +1 long sword! lol