This time in the right thread hahaha ...AND I immediately apologies for the long post! :D
I'm building a lvl 4 Dragonborn Conquest Paladin with the following stats : 16 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 16 CHA. But I have some problems decided to go for the +2 ability modifier or a feat. I would like to hear some opinions on what has a good synergy with the Oath of Conquest. I've done some research on feats that can be useful for the build.
- Dragon breath: +1 CHA and let me transform my breath attack in a fear attack, better than Conquering Presence, but worse than the Fear-spell? Combine this feat with Menacing - Menacing: +1 CHA and let me double my profiency bonus on intimidate checks out side of combat.
- Polearm master: my reach weapon gives me one attack of opportunity a round when a creatures enters my reach + bonus attack with 1d4. Combine this feat with sentine
- Sentinel: When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature’s speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
- Great weapons master: -5 ATT, +10 DAMAGE And bonus attack when crit or reduced a creature to 0. Nice to combine with guided strike. Massive outburst damage.
- Alert: +5 INITIATIVE: great to start the round as first to immediately cause a fear spell!!
Here are some options (at max lvl) I was thinking about:
Option 1: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA due to Dragon Breath + Menacing and Alert
Option 2: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA due to Dragon Breath + Menacing and Great weapon master
Option 3: 20 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA due to Dragon Breath + Menacing
Option 4: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA + Sentinel and polearm master
Option 5: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 18 CHA + Sentinel and polearm master + another feat.
What would you recommend. Like I said, I really like to intimidate out combat and love to use the fear effect in combat. Roleplaying > damage for me.
You won't NEED it bad, especially after level 6 where you get your Cha bonus added to your saves, but especially Conquest paladins have great spells which expand your combat possibilities and depending on your party you WILL be under fire. Unfortunately paladin lacks Con saving throws proficiency and warcaster helps you little compared to other classes, so IMHO it is a great feat to make you nigh unbreakable.
Of your other options I am against PAM on a Conquest pally, you synergize better with high defenses and a shield. If you want reach I would go with dueling + a whip, to stay in concept while you keep your oppenents frozen in fear.
GMW is super fun but your guided strike is once per short rest (if not using fear), so not really a must, but it Is fun especially if your party gives you advantage.
Alert is fantastic on a paladin IMHO, and I would consider that after Menacing and Dragon Breath to rush that high Cha if not taking Resilient.
Ok, so, first of all, how long do you expect the campaign to go? The rest of my answer is going to assume you expect to go past level 10, and intend to make heavy use of the conqueror's signature ability, aura of conquest.
With that in mind, paladin is already a heavily stat dependant class, and conquest paladin has possibly the most pressure on their stats out of all paladin subclasses. You still need to keep up your weapon attack stat, since weapon attacks will still be the most common rolls you make.
But you also need to keep your charisma up, even more than your weapon attack. At level 7 aura of conquest turns on, letting you lock down enemies like few other tanks could ever hope to do, but only if they first fail a save against one of your frighten-inducing abilities. Wrathful Smite for single targets, Conquering Presance or, later, Fear for groups.
If the enemies pass their saves against frighten, then aura of conquest does nothing, the binary nature of it all means keeping those save DCs as high as possible is crucial.
And then, once you have the enemies locked down, you'll need a good concentration save to keep them there, because if you fail a concentration save on wrathful or fear and loose the spell, then your enemies also escape from your aura. So warcaster, or resilient con, or lucky
So you gotta max your cha, you wanna max your weapon attack, and you really should shore up your concentration save, and for a typical single classed conqueror that's already all of your asis. Oh, sure polearm master or great weapon master would increase your damage output, inspiring leader or healer might up your support ability, or alert might... um... actually alert is really good and initiative is very important so maybe settle for a lower weapon attack to fit that in at some point....
But regardless, the thing is there are a ton of feats you might want, but they're all crowded out by the stuff you need.
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You can buy some slack by dipping one to two levels of hexblade, letting you use cha as your attack stat. You can also pick up booming blade, eldritch blast, shield, and cause fear - which is worse than wrathful smite in first level slots, and way worst than fear in 3+ level slots, but in 2nd level slots its a solid frightener. You also get hexblade's curse, which is a nice way to increase damage against fear-immune or resistant enemies.
You'll need warcaster to cast shield while using a shield, which also lets you cast booming blade as an opportunity attack, and it also shores up your concentration saves, so fills a need anyway. Normaly you'd wait to shore up concentration until after maxing cha, but if you're dipping hexblade you want warcaster before the dip, or right after.
Dipping hexblade delay
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Dragon fear isnt worth delaying cha mod advancement for, and might not be worth taking at all, due to skornergy with aura of conquest, since the aura causes damage at the start of enemy turns, which then gives them an extra save against dragon fear.
Menacing is crazy good, but most dms don't allow it, as it's abandoned playtest content from unearthed arcana. If your dm allows it... you probably should take it, but delaying cha mod advancement is frustrating.
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Anyway, tldr take +2 charisma, unless you plan to dip hexblade before level 8, in which case take Warcaster instead.
Thanks for your advice! The Dm said that in a few levels we can change classes and see that we want to play another character. And I'm dying to try out a goblin Bombthrower. Whenever I make a character, I never think 'OOH I want thsi class cause when I reach level 13 I can do this...' It's too far from my bed. Even when I'm building this paladin I was asking to myself: what can he do on lvl 8-9-10? The DM allows the feat menacing and it is was one that I really like to take cause it's a roleplaying feat that fits perfectly with the character. And there is no greater frustration then roleplaying it so good and than throwing a low number on de D20...
The feat is kind of unfair because it steps on the toes of bards and rogues, but if your DM and party are cool with it, it is definitely a cool feat that grants a lot of fun. Go for it.
EDIT: Are you absolutely married to Dragonborn? It's a fine race, that make good conquerors, but there are some stronger choices available, *especially* if your DM allows menacing. The rest of this post is going to assume that you absolutely must be dragonborn for thematic or narrative reasons. I'll make a follow-up choice for alternatives.
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For your dragonborn conqueror, I'm going to recommend straight paladin to level 9, taking defense style at level 2, oath of conquest at level 3, +2 cha at level 4, and warcaster at level 8. Equipment-wise, wear the heaviest available armor, carry a shield, and use the best 1 handed weapon your DM has dropped. For skill proficiencies, make sure you're proficient in intimidation (for flavor), athletics (for shove), and perception (your initiative is lackluster enough without being surprised). Remember that if you already have a skill granted by your background then you can pick any other skill you like, so take athletics and intimidation proficiency from paladin then grab a background that grants either proficiency in order to trade it out for perception. Soldier is the default choice here.
From levels 1 to 6 you're mostly a regular tanky paladin, which is to say a strong character and great team player. You're tough, with good hp and ac. With extra attack you'll deal ok damage that you can spike up to great damage with smites when you need to. For hp support you have lay on hands, best used to top off ally hp when healing or resting after battle, or in emergencies to wake unconscious allies. For channel divinities you have a friendly, non-concentration, aoe debuff in conquering presance, or ahainst frighten immune or strong will save enemies your other cd can turn a miss into a hit. At level 6 you pick up the amazing aura of protection, heavily buffing your saves and those of nearby allies.
As a paladin, you'll be tempted to burn all your spell slots as divine smite, but don't neglect your actual spells, as you have some great ones. Right off the bat, you can cast one of the better buff spells in bless. If you have a cleric in the party then they can cast bless from levels 1-4, freeing your slots for smite, then you can pick up bless for them from level 5, freeing their concentration for spirit guardians.
If you aren't concentrating on bless, consider the debuffing wrathful smite over the more damaging divine smite, particularly when facing big tough brute enemies with lots of hit points but lackluster wisdom saves like trolls, tyrannosaurs, etc.
At level 5 you get spiritual weapon from your oath spells, which helps you further increase your damage and gives you a use for your bonus actions. Like any paladin you get find steed, one of the best summon spells in the game for its level, and aid, one of the better panic healing buttons (don't cast it at the start of the day, cast it in an emergency when multiple party members are in the negatives).
DPS oriented paladins like to save all their spell slots, then burn them all at once to smite a big monster to death. You're a tanky support paladin, you shpuld be spreading your spell slots out through the day, casting buffing, debuffing, and support spells to keep the rest of your party at fighting strength, so that they can beat the tough fight themselves, with a buff spell and maybe 1 or 2 smaller smites from you.
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From level 1 to 6 the main difference between you and a typical tanky paladin is that you took +2 cha instead of sentinel at level 4. This does make you a worse tank for a few levels, but spiritual weapon, conquering presence, and a better aura of protection mean you aren't a worse character.
At level seven you gain aura of conquest, and that's when the conqueror play style really diverges from more typical tanky paladins. AoC is a fantastic lockdown ability, but it only works when enemies are frightened of you, so that becomes your top priority. Against single tough enemies, open with wrathful smite. Against crowds, aura of conquest. Then position yourself to hold your target/s in place, while threatening additional enemies with opportunity attacks if possible. Conquering presence doesn't take concentration and isn't a spell, so you can cast wrathful with a bonus action on the same turn, then that potential opp attack can also trigger frighten. If no enemies provoke, then you'll already have a wrathful prepped for the following turn.
Remember (and remind your allies) that creatures with speed 0, such as those trapped in your aura of conquest, cannot stand from prone. This is why athletics proficiency was important. When appropriate, use the shove maneuver in place of one of your normal attack action melee attacks to knock frightened enemies prone, then they'll stay there, granting advantage to any adjacent attacks targeted at them.
Level 8 you get warcaster to shore up your concentration saves. It also enables multiclassing options later. If you 100% know you aren't multiclassing, then take +2 charisma instead, but warcaster here keeps your options open and isn't a bad choice even if you decide not to multiclass later.
Level 9 is another huge level for you because you get third level spells, in particular Fear. Fear is a decent sized aoe frighten, and enemies who fail their save are forced to spend their action running away from you if they can. Of course, thanks to your aura of conquest they can't run away from you, so they're free to use their action however they want, BUT, importantly, they do not get follow up saves unless they break line of sight, and since they can't run away from you they can't do that, so they just stay stuck in your aura with no way to break the effect other than hoping you fail a concentration save, which you're very unlikely to do between aura of protection and warcaster advantage.
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At this point, you have options. Option A is to stick with paladin. Most other paladin subclasses want to have multiclassed out into warlock or sorcerer by this point already, but Conquest keeps getting useful abilities. Even abilities that are normally just ribbons for other paladins are meaningful for you.
at level 10 you get aura of courage, which most paladins don't care about. Enemy fear effects aren't that common, and even when they do come up you're already granting a big bonus to saves, immunity isn't that much better that it's worth sticking around for. But for you it IS a big deal, because you're throwing out unfriendly Fear cones all the time. Making those cones party friendly out to 10 feet makes them much easier to position effectively.
Level 11 gets you improved divine smite, which is a great ability that significantly ups your at will damage.
Level 12 is another ASI, critical for this build, maxing out your charisma. At this point your strength is kind of lagging behind though. See if you can talk your DM - or party artificer if you're lucky enough to have one - into sliding you a pair of gauntlets of ogre strength.
Level 13 is 4th level spells, in particular the amazing 'find greater steed'.
Level 14 is cleansing touch, giving you an out to nullify a number of negative spell effects and conditions so long as you're still able to act.
Level 15 gives you some auto-damage against enemies who hit you, not enough to be a big deal at this level, but still good to have, and just downright cruel for enemies that are trapped in your aura and have no one else to attack.
Level 16 is another ASI. If you've picked up those gauntlets then the options are wide open - sentinel is probably the best option, to help you tank frighten-immune enemies which are becoming more common and more problematic by this point, but inspiring leader, alert, and lucky are all solid alternatives. Without the gauntlets, you take +2 strength, because by this point a +3 stat mod for your weapon attacks just isn't cutting it anymore
Level 17 is 5th level spells, including the very nice 'destructive wave'. Remember that frightened enemies trapped by your aura cannot stand back up after being knocked prone.
Level 18 expands your auras out to 30 feet. Aura of courage now makes the entire cone of Fear party friendly. Aura of conquest can now trap every enemy that fails their save to Fear or Conquering Presence. Allies don't have to cluster nearly so closely around you to benefit from aura of protection. It's a big deal.
Level 19 is your last ASI. If you never got those gauntlets or belt or whatever of strength and had to raise strength at level 16, then rounding strength out to 20 here isn't a bad call, though 18 might be 'good enough'. Otherwise, again, there are a bunch of good feat, the stand outs being sentinel, inspiring leader, alert, and lucky.
Level 20, should you ever get there, is your oath capstone, and like pretty much all paladin oath capstones it's freaking amazing.
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So yeah, pal 20 is perfectly viable for a conqueror and every level will get you something good and useful. But there are very solid multiclassing options worth considering.
Hexblade Warlock 1 gets you hex warrior, allowing you to use charisma to attack with a 1 handed weapon. This lets you avoid spending asis on strength without relying on the DM dropping you a strength boosting magic item. That alone is reason enough to take the dip, but the single level also gets you Booming Blade (to use as an opportunity attack with warcaster), eldritch blast (a better ranged fallback option than anything else you have going even without agonizing blast), Shield (with warcaster you can cast shield even when fully armed, and it makes your AC crazy good for a round), Cause Fear (worse than Wrathful Smite in first level slots, worse than Fear in 3+ level slots, but nice as a two target frightener in a second level spell slot), hexblade's curse (a great damage boosting option to help take out frighten-immune or resistant foes), and a single first level spell slot to use on shield, bless, wrathful smite, or plain old divine smite, which comes back on a short rest.
For a single level dip that's HUGE, so personally I do recommend taking a quick detour into hexblade at level 10 if you haven't already done so. Again, you don't have to, single classed conqueror works fine, but imo the single level hexblade dip offers too much to pass up unless your game is starting at or near level 20 already.
Past first level, a second level into the dip gets you a second short rest spell slot and a couple invocations, which can be nice depending on what you want or need, and you can still fit Paladin 18 for the aura increase into your build.
A third level of walock is starting to seriously cut into conqueror features, imo, but your pact magic slots can now be used on second level cause fears. You also get your pact boon. All three are nice, but I think chain is the best for a conqueror multiclassing in. You don't need the blade invocations. Books cantrips are nice, but imo not as nice as Chain's invisible flying familiar with hands and the ability to speak. Plus chain grants access to the boon-specific invocation 'gift of the ever living ones' which maximizing healing used on you, which is a great boost for a tank.
a fourth level of warlock puts you back on track for asis, which are again super limited for a conqueror.
A fifth level of warlock lets you cast Fear with your pact magic slots, which is a huge deal.
That's about as far as I'd consider going with warlock, but more levels still works if you really want to push hexblade specifically.
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Divine Soul Sorcerer is another multiclass to consider, granting you more and higher level spell slots faster than staying with paladin, including access to some fantastic cleric spells, up to and including spirit guardians as a third level spell, which conflicts with fear for concentration but combos fantastically with conquering presence. The huge prize here, though, is the heighten spell metamagic, letting you impose disadvantage on an enemy's save vs. one of your frightening spells.
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Bard is the other big charisma class, and while it doesn't offer any single feature as amazing as hex warrior or heighten spell, but you do get the accelerated spell slot progression and a lot of other smaller abilities. Bardic inspiration is a great use of your otherwise somewhat underutilized bonus actions. jack of all trades helps shore up your initiative in addition to your untrained skills. Sadly none of the colleges are a perfect fit - whispers would be thematically, but the abilities just don't line up (you can make someone afraid of you by talking to them, but the effect is cancelled by damage, which means your own aura would immediately shut the effect off at the start of the target's turn). Still, the extra damage option can be good. While none of the colleges are slam dunk choices like hexblade for warlock or divine soul for sorcerer, none are bad options either, they pretty much all grant some sort of solid boost or variant option for your bardic inspiration worth considering.
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Another multiclass worth considering is fighter. An extra fighting style, second wind, and action surge are all phenomenal, and if you take it at least to level 3 to pick up the battle master archetype then menacing attack is another useful frighten option - short duration and single target, but no concentration. The DC is based on your str or dex mod, though, so you go back to needing to spend ASIs on weapon attack stat if your DM doesn't grace you with a strength boosting item.
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near about any combination of these is fine. Again, I recommend Paladin 9, Warlock 1, but the last 10 levels can be whatever appeals to you and fits the flavor of the character you want to play.
Dragonborn is a fine race for conquest paladin, but if your DM allows menacing then you really should consider playing a race with +2 charisma, allowing you to start with charisma 17 and take menacing at level 4 to gain the sweet at will frighten option (albeit only usable against humanoids) without delaying your cha mod advancement.
The three biggest contenders here are:
Half Elf. Huge stat bonuses with +2 cha and +1 to two others, and the extra two skill proficiencies are great given that there are several good charisma skills you'd like to pick up to max out your abilities as a party face.
Zariel Tiefling. An edge lord tiefling variant with +1 str and +2 cha, plus some smite spells daily. Lets you keep the dragonborn's fire resistance - the best trait dragonborn gets, with slightly more favorable stats and abilities otherwise.
Fallen Aasimar. The real edgelord choice and probably the strongest option for a heavy armor wearing conqeror. two damage resistances, the right stat mods, an extra healing ability, and an aoe frighten effect on an ultra-rare non-wisdom-save. Short duration, but leaves you with a damage buff after it fades. Absolutely Fantastic.
My personal recommendation is to go with fallen aasimar, keep your current stats (resulting in strength 15, charisma 17 at level one), and take that single level hexblade dip early, as early as level 2. You still won't get full use out of booming blade and shield until you get warcaster with your second ASI, but it will spare you having to deal with only a +2 weapon attack modifier. Alternatively, drop one of your 10s to an 8 to buy your strength back up to 16 to delay multiclassing back to level 10 or skip it altogether.
Pick up menacing instead of +2 charisma at level 4, rest of the build plays out the same, but now you have two very effective additional frighten options that don't burn spell slots or concentration.
Started a Rime of the Frostmaiden hardcover where I'm playing an Oath of Conquest paladin half orc loyal to Gruumsh. So far its been a blast and most advice I've seen leans heavy towards putting that first asi toward a +2 charisma. But should I take Resilience: Constitution or Warcaster at level 8?
Started a Rime of the Frostmaiden hardcover where I'm playing an Oath of Conquest paladin half orc loyal to Gruumsh. So far its been a blast and most advice I've seen leans heavy towards putting that first asi toward a +2 charisma. But should I take Resilience: Constitution or Warcaster at level 8?
We're going to need to know more.
What are your ability scores now, being the big one.
Also, what do you do mostly in the party, more tanking, more DPS, a little of both, that kind of thing?
Are you weapon and shield or two handed weapon?
How attached are you to that CHA ASI at level 4? depending on your answers to the first questions, some folks may have other advice for that.
My ability scores are as follows: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 14, Wisdom 12, Int 10, Cha 16.
Currently, I think I'm more dps cause I use a Great axe the most (Heavy weapon mastery helps)
Well, attached to that CHA I'm like 70/30. Originally I was going to do +2 STR but that was before I looked at the giant tips thread. That thread I find to be the most informative.
I got a gm who’s not letting me use homebrew content and says that conquest Paladin is homebrew therefore saying I can’t use it. Is it homebrew though?
Ok, so, first of all, how long do you expect the campaign to go? The rest of my answer is going to assume you expect to go past level 10, and intend to make heavy use of the conqueror's signature ability, aura of conquest.
With that in mind, paladin is already a heavily stat dependant class, and conquest paladin has possibly the most pressure on their stats out of all paladin subclasses. You still need to keep up your weapon attack stat, since weapon attacks will still be the most common rolls you make.
But you also need to keep your charisma up, even more than your weapon attack. At level 7 aura of conquest turns on, letting you lock down enemies like few other tanks could ever hope to do, but only if they first fail a save against one of your frighten-inducing abilities. Wrathful Smite for single targets, Conquering Presance or, later, Fear for groups.
If the enemies pass their saves against frighten, then aura of conquest does nothing, the binary nature of it all means keeping those save DCs as high as possible is crucial.
And then, once you have the enemies locked down, you'll need a good concentration save to keep them there, because if you fail a concentration save on wrathful or fear and loose the spell, then your enemies also escape from your aura. So warcaster, or resilient con, or lucky
So you gotta max your cha, you wanna max your weapon attack, and you really should shore up your concentration save, and for a typical single classed conqueror that's already all of your asis. Oh, sure polearm master or great weapon master would increase your damage output, inspiring leader or healer might up your support ability, or alert might... um... actually alert is really good and initiative is very important so maybe settle for a lower weapon attack to fit that in at some point....
But regardless, the thing is there are a ton of feats you might want, but they're all crowded out by the stuff you need.
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You can buy some slack by dipping one to two levels of hexblade, letting you use cha as your attack stat. You can also pick up booming blade, eldritch blast, shield, and cause fear - which is worse than wrathful smite in first level slots, and way worst than fear in 3+ level slots, but in 2nd level slots its a solid frightener. You also get hexblade's curse, which is a nice way to increase damage against fear-immune or resistant enemies.
You'll need warcaster to cast shield while using a shield, which also lets you cast booming blade as an opportunity attack, and it also shores up your concentration saves, so fills a need anyway. Normaly you'd wait to shore up concentration until after maxing cha, but if you're dipping hexblade you want warcaster before the dip, or right after.
Dipping hexblade delay
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Dragon fear isnt worth delaying cha mod advancement for, and might not be worth taking at all, due to skornergy with aura of conquest, since the aura causes damage at the start of enemy turns, which then gives them an extra save against dragon fear.
Menacing is crazy good, but most dms don't allow it, as it's abandoned playtest content from unearthed arcana. If your dm allows it... you probably should take it, but delaying cha mod advancement is frustrating.
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Anyway, tldr take +2 charisma, unless you plan to dip hexblade before level 8, in which case take Warcaster instead.
Some good advice there. I think that WC may not be as necessary, if he dips into hexblade warlock, taking Eldritch Mind. Also, if he decides to go with a 2h weapon, then the free hand for casting becomes easier. Only downside, is you need to go 3 levels into hexblade, to be able to make your 2h weapon your pact weapon. At levels 1-2, Str would still be your weapon modifier, but at 3rd level Cha can become the modifier.
A lot of this depends on whether he wants a 1h+shield or 2h. Once he knows that, then he can make the plan. Either route, sword and board or 2h, as a conquest paladin I would try to max Cha fairly early on.
I got a gm who’s not letting me use homebrew content and says that conquest Paladin is homebrew therefore saying I can’t use it. Is it homebrew though?
Conquest is in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything. Maybe show your DM that.
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This time in the right thread hahaha ...AND I immediately apologies for the long post! :D
I'm building a lvl 4 Dragonborn Conquest Paladin with the following stats : 16 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 16 CHA.
But I have some problems decided to go for the +2 ability modifier or a feat.
I would like to hear some opinions on what has a good synergy with the Oath of Conquest.
I've done some research on feats that can be useful for the build.
- Dragon breath: +1 CHA and let me transform my breath attack in a fear attack, better than Conquering Presence, but worse than the Fear-spell? Combine this feat with Menacing
- Menacing: +1 CHA and let me double my profiency bonus on intimidate checks out side of combat.
- Polearm master: my reach weapon gives me one attack of opportunity a round when a creatures enters my reach + bonus attack with 1d4. Combine this feat with sentine
- Sentinel: When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature’s speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
- Great weapons master: -5 ATT, +10 DAMAGE And bonus attack when crit or reduced a creature to 0. Nice to combine with guided strike. Massive outburst damage.
- Alert: +5 INITIATIVE: great to start the round as first to immediately cause a fear spell!!
Here are some options (at max lvl) I was thinking about:
Option 1: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA due to Dragon Breath + Menacing and Alert
Option 2: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA due to Dragon Breath + Menacing and Great weapon master
Option 3: 20 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA due to Dragon Breath + Menacing
Option 4: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 20 CHA + Sentinel and polearm master
Option 5: 18 STR - 10 DEX - 14 CON - 8 INT - 10 WIS - 18 CHA + Sentinel and polearm master + another feat.
What would you recommend. Like I said, I really like to intimidate out combat and love to use the fear effect in combat. Roleplaying > damage for me.
Thanks in advance.
I would personally make room for Resilient (Con) and pick it up at Lv 4, although it might sound a bit boring.
+1 Con and profiency in saving throws. Would you need it so much?
You won't NEED it bad, especially after level 6 where you get your Cha bonus added to your saves, but especially Conquest paladins have great spells which expand your combat possibilities and depending on your party you WILL be under fire. Unfortunately paladin lacks Con saving throws proficiency and warcaster helps you little compared to other classes, so IMHO it is a great feat to make you nigh unbreakable.
Of your other options I am against PAM on a Conquest pally, you synergize better with high defenses and a shield. If you want reach I would go with dueling + a whip, to stay in concept while you keep your oppenents frozen in fear.
GMW is super fun but your guided strike is once per short rest (if not using fear), so not really a must, but it Is fun especially if your party gives you advantage.
Alert is fantastic on a paladin IMHO, and I would consider that after Menacing and Dragon Breath to rush that high Cha if not taking Resilient.
Ok, so, first of all, how long do you expect the campaign to go? The rest of my answer is going to assume you expect to go past level 10, and intend to make heavy use of the conqueror's signature ability, aura of conquest.
With that in mind, paladin is already a heavily stat dependant class, and conquest paladin has possibly the most pressure on their stats out of all paladin subclasses. You still need to keep up your weapon attack stat, since weapon attacks will still be the most common rolls you make.
But you also need to keep your charisma up, even more than your weapon attack. At level 7 aura of conquest turns on, letting you lock down enemies like few other tanks could ever hope to do, but only if they first fail a save against one of your frighten-inducing abilities. Wrathful Smite for single targets, Conquering Presance or, later, Fear for groups.
If the enemies pass their saves against frighten, then aura of conquest does nothing, the binary nature of it all means keeping those save DCs as high as possible is crucial.
And then, once you have the enemies locked down, you'll need a good concentration save to keep them there, because if you fail a concentration save on wrathful or fear and loose the spell, then your enemies also escape from your aura. So warcaster, or resilient con, or lucky
So you gotta max your cha, you wanna max your weapon attack, and you really should shore up your concentration save, and for a typical single classed conqueror that's already all of your asis. Oh, sure polearm master or great weapon master would increase your damage output, inspiring leader or healer might up your support ability, or alert might... um... actually alert is really good and initiative is very important so maybe settle for a lower weapon attack to fit that in at some point....
But regardless, the thing is there are a ton of feats you might want, but they're all crowded out by the stuff you need.
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You can buy some slack by dipping one to two levels of hexblade, letting you use cha as your attack stat. You can also pick up booming blade, eldritch blast, shield, and cause fear - which is worse than wrathful smite in first level slots, and way worst than fear in 3+ level slots, but in 2nd level slots its a solid frightener. You also get hexblade's curse, which is a nice way to increase damage against fear-immune or resistant enemies.
You'll need warcaster to cast shield while using a shield, which also lets you cast booming blade as an opportunity attack, and it also shores up your concentration saves, so fills a need anyway. Normaly you'd wait to shore up concentration until after maxing cha, but if you're dipping hexblade you want warcaster before the dip, or right after.
Dipping hexblade delay
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Dragon fear isnt worth delaying cha mod advancement for, and might not be worth taking at all, due to skornergy with aura of conquest, since the aura causes damage at the start of enemy turns, which then gives them an extra save against dragon fear.
Menacing is crazy good, but most dms don't allow it, as it's abandoned playtest content from unearthed arcana. If your dm allows it... you probably should take it, but delaying cha mod advancement is frustrating.
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Anyway, tldr take +2 charisma, unless you plan to dip hexblade before level 8, in which case take Warcaster instead.
Thanks for your advice!
The Dm said that in a few levels we can change classes and see that we want to play another character. And I'm dying to try out a goblin Bombthrower. Whenever I make a character, I never think 'OOH I want thsi class cause when I reach level 13 I can do this...' It's too far from my bed. Even when I'm building this paladin I was asking to myself: what can he do on lvl 8-9-10?
The DM allows the feat menacing and it is was one that I really like to take cause it's a roleplaying feat that fits perfectly with the character. And there is no greater frustration then roleplaying it so good and than throwing a low number on de D20...
Is this usefull for you?
The feat is kind of unfair because it steps on the toes of bards and rogues, but if your DM and party are cool with it, it is definitely a cool feat that grants a lot of fun. Go for it.
EDIT: Are you absolutely married to Dragonborn? It's a fine race, that make good conquerors, but there are some stronger choices available, *especially* if your DM allows menacing. The rest of this post is going to assume that you absolutely must be dragonborn for thematic or narrative reasons. I'll make a follow-up choice for alternatives.
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For your dragonborn conqueror, I'm going to recommend straight paladin to level 9, taking defense style at level 2, oath of conquest at level 3, +2 cha at level 4, and warcaster at level 8. Equipment-wise, wear the heaviest available armor, carry a shield, and use the best 1 handed weapon your DM has dropped. For skill proficiencies, make sure you're proficient in intimidation (for flavor), athletics (for shove), and perception (your initiative is lackluster enough without being surprised). Remember that if you already have a skill granted by your background then you can pick any other skill you like, so take athletics and intimidation proficiency from paladin then grab a background that grants either proficiency in order to trade it out for perception. Soldier is the default choice here.
From levels 1 to 6 you're mostly a regular tanky paladin, which is to say a strong character and great team player. You're tough, with good hp and ac. With extra attack you'll deal ok damage that you can spike up to great damage with smites when you need to. For hp support you have lay on hands, best used to top off ally hp when healing or resting after battle, or in emergencies to wake unconscious allies. For channel divinities you have a friendly, non-concentration, aoe debuff in conquering presance, or ahainst frighten immune or strong will save enemies your other cd can turn a miss into a hit. At level 6 you pick up the amazing aura of protection, heavily buffing your saves and those of nearby allies.
As a paladin, you'll be tempted to burn all your spell slots as divine smite, but don't neglect your actual spells, as you have some great ones. Right off the bat, you can cast one of the better buff spells in bless. If you have a cleric in the party then they can cast bless from levels 1-4, freeing your slots for smite, then you can pick up bless for them from level 5, freeing their concentration for spirit guardians.
If you aren't concentrating on bless, consider the debuffing wrathful smite over the more damaging divine smite, particularly when facing big tough brute enemies with lots of hit points but lackluster wisdom saves like trolls, tyrannosaurs, etc.
At level 5 you get spiritual weapon from your oath spells, which helps you further increase your damage and gives you a use for your bonus actions. Like any paladin you get find steed, one of the best summon spells in the game for its level, and aid, one of the better panic healing buttons (don't cast it at the start of the day, cast it in an emergency when multiple party members are in the negatives).
DPS oriented paladins like to save all their spell slots, then burn them all at once to smite a big monster to death. You're a tanky support paladin, you shpuld be spreading your spell slots out through the day, casting buffing, debuffing, and support spells to keep the rest of your party at fighting strength, so that they can beat the tough fight themselves, with a buff spell and maybe 1 or 2 smaller smites from you.
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From level 1 to 6 the main difference between you and a typical tanky paladin is that you took +2 cha instead of sentinel at level 4. This does make you a worse tank for a few levels, but spiritual weapon, conquering presence, and a better aura of protection mean you aren't a worse character.
At level seven you gain aura of conquest, and that's when the conqueror play style really diverges from more typical tanky paladins. AoC is a fantastic lockdown ability, but it only works when enemies are frightened of you, so that becomes your top priority. Against single tough enemies, open with wrathful smite. Against crowds, aura of conquest. Then position yourself to hold your target/s in place, while threatening additional enemies with opportunity attacks if possible. Conquering presence doesn't take concentration and isn't a spell, so you can cast wrathful with a bonus action on the same turn, then that potential opp attack can also trigger frighten. If no enemies provoke, then you'll already have a wrathful prepped for the following turn.
Remember (and remind your allies) that creatures with speed 0, such as those trapped in your aura of conquest, cannot stand from prone. This is why athletics proficiency was important. When appropriate, use the shove maneuver in place of one of your normal attack action melee attacks to knock frightened enemies prone, then they'll stay there, granting advantage to any adjacent attacks targeted at them.
Level 8 you get warcaster to shore up your concentration saves. It also enables multiclassing options later. If you 100% know you aren't multiclassing, then take +2 charisma instead, but warcaster here keeps your options open and isn't a bad choice even if you decide not to multiclass later.
Level 9 is another huge level for you because you get third level spells, in particular Fear. Fear is a decent sized aoe frighten, and enemies who fail their save are forced to spend their action running away from you if they can. Of course, thanks to your aura of conquest they can't run away from you, so they're free to use their action however they want, BUT, importantly, they do not get follow up saves unless they break line of sight, and since they can't run away from you they can't do that, so they just stay stuck in your aura with no way to break the effect other than hoping you fail a concentration save, which you're very unlikely to do between aura of protection and warcaster advantage.
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At this point, you have options. Option A is to stick with paladin. Most other paladin subclasses want to have multiclassed out into warlock or sorcerer by this point already, but Conquest keeps getting useful abilities. Even abilities that are normally just ribbons for other paladins are meaningful for you.
at level 10 you get aura of courage, which most paladins don't care about. Enemy fear effects aren't that common, and even when they do come up you're already granting a big bonus to saves, immunity isn't that much better that it's worth sticking around for. But for you it IS a big deal, because you're throwing out unfriendly Fear cones all the time. Making those cones party friendly out to 10 feet makes them much easier to position effectively.
Level 11 gets you improved divine smite, which is a great ability that significantly ups your at will damage.
Level 12 is another ASI, critical for this build, maxing out your charisma. At this point your strength is kind of lagging behind though. See if you can talk your DM - or party artificer if you're lucky enough to have one - into sliding you a pair of gauntlets of ogre strength.
Level 13 is 4th level spells, in particular the amazing 'find greater steed'.
Level 14 is cleansing touch, giving you an out to nullify a number of negative spell effects and conditions so long as you're still able to act.
Level 15 gives you some auto-damage against enemies who hit you, not enough to be a big deal at this level, but still good to have, and just downright cruel for enemies that are trapped in your aura and have no one else to attack.
Level 16 is another ASI. If you've picked up those gauntlets then the options are wide open - sentinel is probably the best option, to help you tank frighten-immune enemies which are becoming more common and more problematic by this point, but inspiring leader, alert, and lucky are all solid alternatives. Without the gauntlets, you take +2 strength, because by this point a +3 stat mod for your weapon attacks just isn't cutting it anymore
Level 17 is 5th level spells, including the very nice 'destructive wave'. Remember that frightened enemies trapped by your aura cannot stand back up after being knocked prone.
Level 18 expands your auras out to 30 feet. Aura of courage now makes the entire cone of Fear party friendly. Aura of conquest can now trap every enemy that fails their save to Fear or Conquering Presence. Allies don't have to cluster nearly so closely around you to benefit from aura of protection. It's a big deal.
Level 19 is your last ASI. If you never got those gauntlets or belt or whatever of strength and had to raise strength at level 16, then rounding strength out to 20 here isn't a bad call, though 18 might be 'good enough'. Otherwise, again, there are a bunch of good feat, the stand outs being sentinel, inspiring leader, alert, and lucky.
Level 20, should you ever get there, is your oath capstone, and like pretty much all paladin oath capstones it's freaking amazing.
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So yeah, pal 20 is perfectly viable for a conqueror and every level will get you something good and useful. But there are very solid multiclassing options worth considering.
Hexblade Warlock 1 gets you hex warrior, allowing you to use charisma to attack with a 1 handed weapon. This lets you avoid spending asis on strength without relying on the DM dropping you a strength boosting magic item. That alone is reason enough to take the dip, but the single level also gets you Booming Blade (to use as an opportunity attack with warcaster), eldritch blast (a better ranged fallback option than anything else you have going even without agonizing blast), Shield (with warcaster you can cast shield even when fully armed, and it makes your AC crazy good for a round), Cause Fear (worse than Wrathful Smite in first level slots, worse than Fear in 3+ level slots, but nice as a two target frightener in a second level spell slot), hexblade's curse (a great damage boosting option to help take out frighten-immune or resistant foes), and a single first level spell slot to use on shield, bless, wrathful smite, or plain old divine smite, which comes back on a short rest.
For a single level dip that's HUGE, so personally I do recommend taking a quick detour into hexblade at level 10 if you haven't already done so. Again, you don't have to, single classed conqueror works fine, but imo the single level hexblade dip offers too much to pass up unless your game is starting at or near level 20 already.
Past first level, a second level into the dip gets you a second short rest spell slot and a couple invocations, which can be nice depending on what you want or need, and you can still fit Paladin 18 for the aura increase into your build.
A third level of walock is starting to seriously cut into conqueror features, imo, but your pact magic slots can now be used on second level cause fears. You also get your pact boon. All three are nice, but I think chain is the best for a conqueror multiclassing in. You don't need the blade invocations. Books cantrips are nice, but imo not as nice as Chain's invisible flying familiar with hands and the ability to speak. Plus chain grants access to the boon-specific invocation 'gift of the ever living ones' which maximizing healing used on you, which is a great boost for a tank.
a fourth level of warlock puts you back on track for asis, which are again super limited for a conqueror.
A fifth level of warlock lets you cast Fear with your pact magic slots, which is a huge deal.
That's about as far as I'd consider going with warlock, but more levels still works if you really want to push hexblade specifically.
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Divine Soul Sorcerer is another multiclass to consider, granting you more and higher level spell slots faster than staying with paladin, including access to some fantastic cleric spells, up to and including spirit guardians as a third level spell, which conflicts with fear for concentration but combos fantastically with conquering presence. The huge prize here, though, is the heighten spell metamagic, letting you impose disadvantage on an enemy's save vs. one of your frightening spells.
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Bard is the other big charisma class, and while it doesn't offer any single feature as amazing as hex warrior or heighten spell, but you do get the accelerated spell slot progression and a lot of other smaller abilities. Bardic inspiration is a great use of your otherwise somewhat underutilized bonus actions. jack of all trades helps shore up your initiative in addition to your untrained skills. Sadly none of the colleges are a perfect fit - whispers would be thematically, but the abilities just don't line up (you can make someone afraid of you by talking to them, but the effect is cancelled by damage, which means your own aura would immediately shut the effect off at the start of the target's turn). Still, the extra damage option can be good. While none of the colleges are slam dunk choices like hexblade for warlock or divine soul for sorcerer, none are bad options either, they pretty much all grant some sort of solid boost or variant option for your bardic inspiration worth considering.
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Another multiclass worth considering is fighter. An extra fighting style, second wind, and action surge are all phenomenal, and if you take it at least to level 3 to pick up the battle master archetype then menacing attack is another useful frighten option - short duration and single target, but no concentration. The DC is based on your str or dex mod, though, so you go back to needing to spend ASIs on weapon attack stat if your DM doesn't grace you with a strength boosting item.
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near about any combination of these is fine. Again, I recommend Paladin 9, Warlock 1, but the last 10 levels can be whatever appeals to you and fits the flavor of the character you want to play.
Alternatives to dragonborn:
Dragonborn is a fine race for conquest paladin, but if your DM allows menacing then you really should consider playing a race with +2 charisma, allowing you to start with charisma 17 and take menacing at level 4 to gain the sweet at will frighten option (albeit only usable against humanoids) without delaying your cha mod advancement.
The three biggest contenders here are:
Half Elf. Huge stat bonuses with +2 cha and +1 to two others, and the extra two skill proficiencies are great given that there are several good charisma skills you'd like to pick up to max out your abilities as a party face.
Zariel Tiefling. An edge lord tiefling variant with +1 str and +2 cha, plus some smite spells daily. Lets you keep the dragonborn's fire resistance - the best trait dragonborn gets, with slightly more favorable stats and abilities otherwise.
Fallen Aasimar. The real edgelord choice and probably the strongest option for a heavy armor wearing conqeror. two damage resistances, the right stat mods, an extra healing ability, and an aoe frighten effect on an ultra-rare non-wisdom-save. Short duration, but leaves you with a damage buff after it fades. Absolutely Fantastic.
My personal recommendation is to go with fallen aasimar, keep your current stats (resulting in strength 15, charisma 17 at level one), and take that single level hexblade dip early, as early as level 2. You still won't get full use out of booming blade and shield until you get warcaster with your second ASI, but it will spare you having to deal with only a +2 weapon attack modifier. Alternatively, drop one of your 10s to an 8 to buy your strength back up to 16 to delay multiclassing back to level 10 or skip it altogether.
Pick up menacing instead of +2 charisma at level 4, rest of the build plays out the same, but now you have two very effective additional frighten options that don't burn spell slots or concentration.
Though there is already some amazing info above, I just wanted to add this link. Gives some really good info to think about:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?543427-The-Wall-of-Fear-A-Complete-Guide-to-the-Oath-of-Conquest
PbP 🎲: Tyekanik; Moneo Noree; Korba Muris; & occasional DM:
That's a great thread for conquest advice. I'm "malisteen" on those boards, feel free to ask me if you have any additional questions.
Started a Rime of the Frostmaiden hardcover where I'm playing an Oath of Conquest paladin half orc loyal to Gruumsh. So far its been a blast and most advice I've seen leans heavy towards putting that first asi toward a +2 charisma. But should I take Resilience: Constitution or Warcaster at level 8?
We're going to need to know more.
What are your ability scores now, being the big one.
Also, what do you do mostly in the party, more tanking, more DPS, a little of both, that kind of thing?
Are you weapon and shield or two handed weapon?
How attached are you to that CHA ASI at level 4? depending on your answers to the first questions, some folks may have other advice for that.
My ability scores are as follows: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 14, Wisdom 12, Int 10, Cha 16.
Currently, I think I'm more dps cause I use a Great axe the most (Heavy weapon mastery helps)
Well, attached to that CHA I'm like 70/30. Originally I was going to do +2 STR but that was before I looked at the giant tips thread. That thread I find to be the most informative.
I got a gm who’s not letting me use homebrew content and says that conquest Paladin is homebrew therefore saying I can’t use it. Is it homebrew though?
Plan A: Link to him this: https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/paladin#OathofConquest
Plan B: Change DM =P
Some good advice there. I think that WC may not be as necessary, if he dips into hexblade warlock, taking Eldritch Mind. Also, if he decides to go with a 2h weapon, then the free hand for casting becomes easier. Only downside, is you need to go 3 levels into hexblade, to be able to make your 2h weapon your pact weapon. At levels 1-2, Str would still be your weapon modifier, but at 3rd level Cha can become the modifier.
A lot of this depends on whether he wants a 1h+shield or 2h. Once he knows that, then he can make the plan. Either route, sword and board or 2h, as a conquest paladin I would try to max Cha fairly early on.
Conquest is in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything. Maybe show your DM that.