anyone know if there is a spell list of what spells a paladin can learn? i have been having a discussion with someone at work and they are adamant that my paladin should know more spells (actual spells he can prepare, not the number prepared for the day or the number of slots).
my character sheet was made using just the PHB, so i am wondering if other books have added more spells.
if so can someone tell me which book i need for which spell, and also if it is an oath thing of "X oath cant learn Y spell", are people able to break it down further into which spells are general paladin spells and which are oath specific spells.
Xanathar's Guide to Everything added 3 paladin spells. Those should be the only 3 "Paladin" spells you don't have. Oaths don't restrict spells, so it's not a matter of "X oath can't learn Y spell". Oaths give you spells that are normally outside of the Paladin spell list. What Oath did you choose? It's easier to say what additional resource you would need based on the oath rather than look through every oath.
Oaths grant you additional spells that are always prepared and do not count against your normal limit of prepared spells. For instance, Victoria, a second level paladin with 14 charisma, can prepare up to three spells chosen from the paladin list, and she typically chooses to prepare Bless, Protection From Evil and Good, and Cure Wounds. Victoria levels up to third level and chooses the Oath of Devotion, which grants her the spells Protection from Evil and Good and Sanctuary as oath spells at 3rd level. Sanctuary is a spell Victoria didn't have access to as a paladin before taking her oath. Protection From Evil and Good she could already cast, but now that it's an oath spell for her she doesn't need to prepare it anymore. She can still only prepare three spells per day, but where before she would usually prepare Protection from Evil and Good, now she can prepare another spell instead.
So now as a third level Devotion Paladin Victoria always has Protection From Evil and Good and Sanctuary prepared, and most days she prepares Bless, Cure Wounds, and Compelled Duel as well, significantly increasing her spell casting options even though she technically can't prepare any more spells than she could when she was level 2. Of course, most days her limited daily spell slots are still just going to go into Bless or Divine Smite, but the other options are there if the right situation comes up.
...
For the spells your paladin can choose to prepare normally, see the paladin spell list in the Players Handbook, plus the three spells from Xanathar's Guide to Everything mentioned by Sigvard above. For the spells that are always prepared by your oath, see the third level features of your particular oath.
Oaths which have particularly good oath spells that are not otherwise available to your paladin include Oath of Vengeance (Hunter's Mark, Misty Step, Haste, Dimension Door), Oath of the Crown (Warding Bond, Spirit Guardians), and Oath of Conquest (Armor of Agathys, Spiritual Weapon, Fear). However, every oath has at least one or two decent oath spells. In particular, look for support spells like Haste which enhance your already strong fighting abilities and potentially spread their benefits to your Find Steed summon as well, and movement spells like Misty Step or Dimension Door which can help with a paladin's otherwise sometimes lacking maneuverability and range, particularly in confined settings where you can't easily take advantage of your steed. Bonus action spells like Hunter's Mark or Misty Step are worth taking extra note of, as Paladins tend not to have strong uses for their bonus action baked into their class, not unless their dual wielding (which tends to be a weaker combat option in 5e generally) or taking a feat like Polearm Master that grants bonus action attacks.
In general, offensive Oath spells are less useful since your half-caster spell slot progression means they tend to be kind of weak by the time you get them. Additionally, even if you start with a strong charisma score, you're probably spending your early ability score improvements on feats and your weapon attack stat, and probably don't have room to go back and raise your charisma until way later on. This tends to cause the typical paladin's charisma score, and thus their spell attack bonus and the saving throw DCs of their offensive spells, to start to lag behind in mid levels, which means for a large part of your career your offensive spells will tend not to stick, and this starts to become noticeable right around the level where feats and the Extra Attack feature are making your regular Attack action even better. Something you especially want to avoid are spells that take an entire action to cast, affect only a single enemy, target a save that most enemies have high bonuses in like wisdom, and do nothing if the enemy passes their save. More often than not, such spells are going to waste your action and a spell slot for no benefit at all.
Even for offensive spells with a reduced effect on a passed save, If you assume enemies are going to pass those saves then Divine Smite is probably going to have more impact. As an offensive tool layered on top of your already decent melee abilities, Divine Smite is already pretty strong and usually really all you need, so again when it comes to spells you might actually cast you really should start by looking at defensive, support, healing, and positioning spells, both when choosing what spells to prepare and when judging whether a particular sacred oath's list of oath spells will actually be useful or not.
There are exceptions where a paladin's offensive spells can actually be more valuable than Divine Smites, though. For example, Oath of the Crown's oath spell Spirit Guardians is amazing enough to still be good even when they get it at level 9, and even if they don't have a maxed out charisma score. Another exception is Oath of Conquest paladins. Because their powerful level 7 ability Aura of Conquest only works on enemies who have already failed a save against a frighten effect, Oath of Conquest paladins tend to raise their Charisma earlier and higher than other oaths in order to make their frightening spells and abilities harder to resist. Obviously this makes frightening spells like Wrathful Smite and Fear good for them, but their usually-higher charisma also lets them make better use of other offensive spells over a wider level range than more typical paladins, including their strong oath spell Spiritual Weapon, which is also an excellent use of bonus actions.
Even if you don't think your chosen Oath's spells are the best, it's still worth keeping all of your oath spells in mind. You'll have them all memorized whether you think they're good or not, and you never know when the perfect situation for a rarely used spell might come up.
...
As for your regular prepared spells, here's a list of what I consider to be some of the better spells on the paladin's spell list, spells you should strongly consider memorizing once you're at a high enough level to access them:
Bless
Aid (best used to get multiple unconscious party members back into the action)
Find Steed
Aura of Vitality (best used for out of combat healing but good enough to use in combat as well)
Revivify (you don't need it often, but when you do need it you REALLY need it. Have the party chip in to help cover the cost)
Find Greater Steed (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything)
Death Ward
Aura of Life (in combat 'healing', automatically gets party members back on their feet if they start with 0hp, strong but it can backfire if your DM responds by attacking downed enemies to finish them off)
Banishment (not great as a 4th level spell, but good when cast from a 5th level spell slot if you've maxed out your charisma bonus by then)
Destructive wave - a rare offensive paladin spell that's strong enough, and covers a wide enough area, that it is often worth casting over divine smite, especially since it comes late enough that most paladins have had time to go back and raise their charisma some, and since divine smite doesn't scale with 5th level spell slots.
These aren't the only good paladin spells outside of oath spells, but they are the ones that I find to be good enough often enough that I consistently want to cast them instead of using that spell slot for Divine Smite instead. In addition there are other more situational spell that you probably don't need to memorize every day, but that are worth remembering you have access. Spells like Lesser Restoration, Remove Curse, and Raise Dead. For example, if a party member dies and you can't get to them in time for a Revivify, then you can bunker down for the night and prepare Raise Dead the next day to bring them back then. Or if the party has a fight with a pack of werewolves then you can start preparing remove curse, and cast it on each party member over the next few days just to make sure everyone's clear before the next full moon.
thanks for this, i knew about some of the oaths having spells that the others don't due to them being outside the paladin spell list, eg the oathbreaker from the DMG (explained later is the reason for the disagreement), and about the oath spells being always prepared and how to work out how many other spells i can prepare.
i am only level 4, oath of devotion, so only have level 1 spells available to me just now, so at the moment it is only ceremony i am missing from my list based on a google search of the spells from XGE.
talking with the guy, it is a confusion on the oath spells that he had, due to some of the same spells being in different oaths, he though that any spells that an oath could learn was a paladin spell, just not an always prepared spell.
Yeah, some oath spells are paladin spells to begin with, but others are not. Even if an oath spell is not normally a paladin spell, it does count as a paladin spell for paladins who take that oath. For instance, as a devotion paladin, sanctuary counts as a paladin spell for you specifically. But it isn't a paladin spell otherwise, and isn't available to paladins of other oaths unless it is also an oath spell for them. For instance, Misty Step is an oath spell for both oath of ancients and oath of vengeance paladins, and will count as paladin spells for them once they reach 5th level. But it doesn't count as a paladin spell and isn't available to paladins of other oaths.
sorry to intrude on this, Ive learned a lot by reading this thread so thank you in advance. But I just want to clarify my understanding if that's possible? so i'm playing my first character, first game in so many years, who is a paladin, oath of vengeance 7th level. We play on Roll20 and the character creation on there only let me choose so many spells on the spells and can prepare say 6 spells from that list, are you saying that I should have access to all of the paladin spells that I have spell slots for?
Yes. I use Roll20 to play, but don't own the books on there. (I have them here.) I had to create several spells in Roll20 since they aren't part of the basic rules. (Currently playing a vengeance paladin also.)
After each long rest, you prepare the paladin spells you can cast. You can prepare a total number of spells equal to your charisma modifier plus one half your paladin level, rounding down. These spells are chosen from the entire paladin spell list. You can then cast any of the spells you have prepared as much as you want during the day, so long as you still have spell slots left over to do so. After your next long rest, you prepare spells again. They can be the same spells you prepared last time, or you might prepare different spells from the paladin list.
Your oath will give you additional spells, granting you more spells as you advance in paladin level. These oath spells are always prepared, they do not count against the total number of spells you are allowed to prepare after a long rest. They may or may not be on the paladin spell list already. If they aren't on the paladin spell list, then they still count as paladin spells for you.
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anyone know if there is a spell list of what spells a paladin can learn? i have been having a discussion with someone at work and they are adamant that my paladin should know more spells (actual spells he can prepare, not the number prepared for the day or the number of slots).
my character sheet was made using just the PHB, so i am wondering if other books have added more spells.
if so can someone tell me which book i need for which spell, and also if it is an oath thing of "X oath cant learn Y spell", are people able to break it down further into which spells are general paladin spells and which are oath specific spells.
Xanathar's Guide to Everything added 3 paladin spells. Those should be the only 3 "Paladin" spells you don't have. Oaths don't restrict spells, so it's not a matter of "X oath can't learn Y spell". Oaths give you spells that are normally outside of the Paladin spell list. What Oath did you choose? It's easier to say what additional resource you would need based on the oath rather than look through every oath.
Ceremony, Find Greater Steed, and Holy Weapon are the 3 spells, btw.
Oaths grant you additional spells that are always prepared and do not count against your normal limit of prepared spells. For instance, Victoria, a second level paladin with 14 charisma, can prepare up to three spells chosen from the paladin list, and she typically chooses to prepare Bless, Protection From Evil and Good, and Cure Wounds. Victoria levels up to third level and chooses the Oath of Devotion, which grants her the spells Protection from Evil and Good and Sanctuary as oath spells at 3rd level. Sanctuary is a spell Victoria didn't have access to as a paladin before taking her oath. Protection From Evil and Good she could already cast, but now that it's an oath spell for her she doesn't need to prepare it anymore. She can still only prepare three spells per day, but where before she would usually prepare Protection from Evil and Good, now she can prepare another spell instead.
So now as a third level Devotion Paladin Victoria always has Protection From Evil and Good and Sanctuary prepared, and most days she prepares Bless, Cure Wounds, and Compelled Duel as well, significantly increasing her spell casting options even though she technically can't prepare any more spells than she could when she was level 2. Of course, most days her limited daily spell slots are still just going to go into Bless or Divine Smite, but the other options are there if the right situation comes up.
...
For the spells your paladin can choose to prepare normally, see the paladin spell list in the Players Handbook, plus the three spells from Xanathar's Guide to Everything mentioned by Sigvard above. For the spells that are always prepared by your oath, see the third level features of your particular oath.
Oaths which have particularly good oath spells that are not otherwise available to your paladin include Oath of Vengeance (Hunter's Mark, Misty Step, Haste, Dimension Door), Oath of the Crown (Warding Bond, Spirit Guardians), and Oath of Conquest (Armor of Agathys, Spiritual Weapon, Fear). However, every oath has at least one or two decent oath spells. In particular, look for support spells like Haste which enhance your already strong fighting abilities and potentially spread their benefits to your Find Steed summon as well, and movement spells like Misty Step or Dimension Door which can help with a paladin's otherwise sometimes lacking maneuverability and range, particularly in confined settings where you can't easily take advantage of your steed. Bonus action spells like Hunter's Mark or Misty Step are worth taking extra note of, as Paladins tend not to have strong uses for their bonus action baked into their class, not unless their dual wielding (which tends to be a weaker combat option in 5e generally) or taking a feat like Polearm Master that grants bonus action attacks.
In general, offensive Oath spells are less useful since your half-caster spell slot progression means they tend to be kind of weak by the time you get them. Additionally, even if you start with a strong charisma score, you're probably spending your early ability score improvements on feats and your weapon attack stat, and probably don't have room to go back and raise your charisma until way later on. This tends to cause the typical paladin's charisma score, and thus their spell attack bonus and the saving throw DCs of their offensive spells, to start to lag behind in mid levels, which means for a large part of your career your offensive spells will tend not to stick, and this starts to become noticeable right around the level where feats and the Extra Attack feature are making your regular Attack action even better. Something you especially want to avoid are spells that take an entire action to cast, affect only a single enemy, target a save that most enemies have high bonuses in like wisdom, and do nothing if the enemy passes their save. More often than not, such spells are going to waste your action and a spell slot for no benefit at all.
Even for offensive spells with a reduced effect on a passed save, If you assume enemies are going to pass those saves then Divine Smite is probably going to have more impact. As an offensive tool layered on top of your already decent melee abilities, Divine Smite is already pretty strong and usually really all you need, so again when it comes to spells you might actually cast you really should start by looking at defensive, support, healing, and positioning spells, both when choosing what spells to prepare and when judging whether a particular sacred oath's list of oath spells will actually be useful or not.
There are exceptions where a paladin's offensive spells can actually be more valuable than Divine Smites, though. For example, Oath of the Crown's oath spell Spirit Guardians is amazing enough to still be good even when they get it at level 9, and even if they don't have a maxed out charisma score. Another exception is Oath of Conquest paladins. Because their powerful level 7 ability Aura of Conquest only works on enemies who have already failed a save against a frighten effect, Oath of Conquest paladins tend to raise their Charisma earlier and higher than other oaths in order to make their frightening spells and abilities harder to resist. Obviously this makes frightening spells like Wrathful Smite and Fear good for them, but their usually-higher charisma also lets them make better use of other offensive spells over a wider level range than more typical paladins, including their strong oath spell Spiritual Weapon, which is also an excellent use of bonus actions.
Even if you don't think your chosen Oath's spells are the best, it's still worth keeping all of your oath spells in mind. You'll have them all memorized whether you think they're good or not, and you never know when the perfect situation for a rarely used spell might come up.
...
As for your regular prepared spells, here's a list of what I consider to be some of the better spells on the paladin's spell list, spells you should strongly consider memorizing once you're at a high enough level to access them:
These aren't the only good paladin spells outside of oath spells, but they are the ones that I find to be good enough often enough that I consistently want to cast them instead of using that spell slot for Divine Smite instead. In addition there are other more situational spell that you probably don't need to memorize every day, but that are worth remembering you have access. Spells like Lesser Restoration, Remove Curse, and Raise Dead. For example, if a party member dies and you can't get to them in time for a Revivify, then you can bunker down for the night and prepare Raise Dead the next day to bring them back then. Or if the party has a fight with a pack of werewolves then you can start preparing remove curse, and cast it on each party member over the next few days just to make sure everyone's clear before the next full moon.
thanks for this, i knew about some of the oaths having spells that the others don't due to them being outside the paladin spell list, eg the oathbreaker from the DMG (explained later is the reason for the disagreement), and about the oath spells being always prepared and how to work out how many other spells i can prepare.
i am only level 4, oath of devotion, so only have level 1 spells available to me just now, so at the moment it is only ceremony i am missing from my list based on a google search of the spells from XGE.
talking with the guy, it is a confusion on the oath spells that he had, due to some of the same spells being in different oaths, he though that any spells that an oath could learn was a paladin spell, just not an always prepared spell.
Yeah, some oath spells are paladin spells to begin with, but others are not. Even if an oath spell is not normally a paladin spell, it does count as a paladin spell for paladins who take that oath. For instance, as a devotion paladin, sanctuary counts as a paladin spell for you specifically. But it isn't a paladin spell otherwise, and isn't available to paladins of other oaths unless it is also an oath spell for them. For instance, Misty Step is an oath spell for both oath of ancients and oath of vengeance paladins, and will count as paladin spells for them once they reach 5th level. But it doesn't count as a paladin spell and isn't available to paladins of other oaths.
sorry to intrude on this, Ive learned a lot by reading this thread so thank you in advance. But I just want to clarify my understanding if that's possible? so i'm playing my first character, first game in so many years, who is a paladin, oath of vengeance 7th level. We play on Roll20 and the character creation on there only let me choose so many spells on the spells and can prepare say 6 spells from that list, are you saying that I should have access to all of the paladin spells that I have spell slots for?
Yes. I use Roll20 to play, but don't own the books on there. (I have them here.) I had to create several spells in Roll20 since they aren't part of the basic rules. (Currently playing a vengeance paladin also.)
Oh awesome!! thanks a lot!! I've been missing out on a lot of opportunities!!
After each long rest, you prepare the paladin spells you can cast. You can prepare a total number of spells equal to your charisma modifier plus one half your paladin level, rounding down. These spells are chosen from the entire paladin spell list. You can then cast any of the spells you have prepared as much as you want during the day, so long as you still have spell slots left over to do so. After your next long rest, you prepare spells again. They can be the same spells you prepared last time, or you might prepare different spells from the paladin list.
Your oath will give you additional spells, granting you more spells as you advance in paladin level. These oath spells are always prepared, they do not count against the total number of spells you are allowed to prepare after a long rest. They may or may not be on the paladin spell list already. If they aren't on the paladin spell list, then they still count as paladin spells for you.