I hear people talk about getting a better mount at higher Paladin levels. Is this a function of the spell, or just an assumption aside from the mechanics? (like buying a trained griffon, etc).
There is no rules-based guidance on mount progression, and this is entirely at the DM's discretion. Worth noting that in upper levels, low-HP mounts can easily be killed incidentally by friendly fire or monsters. Mounts are treated in many ways as equipment, and I view "magical" mounts more or less as magic items - which means they follow the same rules for scarcity (i.e., they should be viewed as precious but not necessary). A pegasus/unicorn/nightmare/etc. is a pretty reasonable "reward" for upper-level Paladins and the like, but I wouldn't give one out just for having cast the spell (I might allow the spell to summon one the character has bonded with, though).
Your GM might allow other animals to be summoned as steeds.) The steed has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type.
1) GM might allow is code words for the list is not complete and good DM can consider working with the player. As a DM, I would allow other things, especially at higher levels.
2) it is not a "beast". That is huge when things try to Target your mount! Lots of power here.
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DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
Entirely up to the DM, though typically I allow any creature in the back of the PHB with a CR of 2 or below. This is subject to change at higher levels obviously, but I've never had a player paladin go that far
The good news is that Xanathar's guide has a new spell to summon greater steeds. It specifies griffons, pegusi, dire wolves, and others. May allow a DM to feel more comfortable giving a nightmare or dinosaur for a mount depending on the player to DM communications. Show your DM that spell and see what you can get away with.
Dire Wolf is a full CR less then everything else on this, so yes underwhelming.
Funny thing is if you really wanted to build a character around this spell a Bard: College of Lore is great for it, as they can cast lvl 4 Paladin spells at 7th lvl instead of waiting to 13th.
I had a human vengance paladin (bounty hunter), so I summoned a mastiff as a companion. He was my "infernal hunting hound".
The dire wolf seems lame though. Compared to virtually any other option....
Depends on your DM and whether, for instance, they prefer to keep mounts to beasts rather than intelligent monstrosities. Needs to be noted that you don't get to 'pick'.
Also, the knockdown on the dire wolf bite can be helpful for followup attacks.
The dire wolf seems lame though. Compared to virtually any other option....
Depends on your DM and whether, for instance, they prefer to keep mounts to beasts rather than intelligent monstrosities. Needs to be noted that you don't get to 'pick'.
Also, the knockdown on the dire wolf bite can be helpful for followup attacks.
All the creatures in Find (Greater) Steed are intelligent monstrosities... to an extent.
Find Steed increases the intelligence of the creature to 5 and gives it a creature type of celestial/infernal/fey.
Find Greater Steed increases the intelligence of the creature to 6 and gives it a creature type of celestial/infernal/fey.
That said the pegesus and preyton are human level intelligence.
FInd Greater Steed is the answer to our prayers, so many options and it opens up the door for discussion on similar ones.
I will however state that I feel this spell should actually be a paladin ability instead, like it was in 3.5, but what can ya do
This way, bards can steal it, clerics and druids can get it from Domain/Circle, and warlocks can have their Patron add it to their spell list or get an Eldritch Invocation that lets them cast it.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
FInd Greater Steed is the answer to our prayers, so many options and it opens up the door for discussion on similar ones.
I will however state that I feel this spell should actually be a paladin ability instead, like it was in 3.5, but what can ya do
This way, bards can steal it, clerics and druids can get it from Domain/Circle, and warlocks can have their Patron add it to their spell list or get an Eldritch Invocation that lets them cast it.
You're right, which is why I feel like it should be an paladin ability instead. Or like, the regular Find Steed being available as a spell, but this fancier version paladins only or something
FInd Greater Steed is the answer to our prayers, so many options and it opens up the door for discussion on similar ones.
I will however state that I feel this spell should actually be a paladin ability instead, like it was in 3.5, but what can ya do
This way, bards can steal it, clerics and druids can get it from Domain/Circle, and warlocks can have their Patron add it to their spell list or get an Eldritch Invocation that lets them cast it.
You're right, which is why I feel like it should be an paladin ability instead. Or like, the regular Find Steed being available as a spell, but this fancier version paladins only or something
How would your bard ever get that rainbow unicorn they wanted, though? Besides, if you want mount perks as a paladin, you can talk to your DM about maybe aquireing some using the calavere from XGTE as a model.
I prefer the steed not being a paladin class feature, because in all honesty, I find paladin mounts to be more trouble than they're worth. In every edition I've ever played a paladin in, mounts have always been more of a pain in the rear than something useful. Mounts are for travel; rarely do they see entrance into combat, and I find they're in the way for dungeon exploration and have no point in social situations.
This way, everyone gets their cake and can eat it too.
I prefer the steed not being a paladin class feature, because in all honesty, I find paladin mounts to be more trouble than they're worth. In every edition I've ever played a paladin in, mounts have always been more of a pain in the rear than something useful. Mounts are for travel; rarely do they see entrance into combat, and I find they're in the way for dungeon exploration and have no point in social situations.
This way, everyone gets their cake and can eat it too.
I don't understand how this being a spell and not a feature is "everyone gets their cake and can eat it too." Whether it is a spell or a feature doesn't change the logistics of a mount. If your group only uses them for travel, then don't use it. Essentially I am saying that while I see your point that oftentimes mounts are fairly hit or miss, but I don't understand how that relates to it being a feature vs spell.
I don't understand how this being a spell and not a feature is "everyone gets their cake and can eat it too." Whether it is a spell or a feature doesn't change the logistics of a mount. If your group only uses them for travel, then don't use it. Essentially I am saying that while I see your point that oftentimes mounts are fairly hit or miss, but I don't understand how that relates to it being a feature vs spell.
This way, its modular, which is very nice. If it was a feature, that would have a direct impact on the design of the class. It becomes a core feature that every paladin has, and that affects the mindset of the class as a whole. Feature means that every paladin has a mount, period, even when it doesn't make sense for them to. It also directly affects things, like how to upgrade the mount; there's no class-specific feats, so there's no way to interact with this by feat, and a mounted subclass would make it tricky to have your stereotypical Cavalier on a white horse, or the nightmare-riding hell-knight.
If someone didn't want a mount, they could also be asking their DM for something to swap out the mount feature with.
Then, we run into the Beastmaster / Chain Pact issues. Those are two times where animal companions weren't spells, and look at the problems they cause. Terrible design, lots of issues with people in play, having to consider all these other issues and balancing with and against other types of characters....
By making mounts work like wizard familiars, things are much more clear cut and easier to handle. Its easy to alter, add or remove them from the game, and a few other considerations. And if you want to make a mounted subclass, that really gets mileage out of having a mount, you can do that too, just by making sure the spell is part of the Oath package.
Ah thank you for expanding, I see your point and completely agree. I never thought of it like that, but keeping it as a spell does make it more of an option rather than a must.
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I hear people talk about getting a better mount at higher Paladin levels. Is this a function of the spell, or just an assumption aside from the mechanics? (like buying a trained griffon, etc).
I assume you mean based on the Find Steed spell.
There is no rules-based guidance on mount progression, and this is entirely at the DM's discretion. Worth noting that in upper levels, low-HP mounts can easily be killed incidentally by friendly fire or monsters. Mounts are treated in many ways as equipment, and I view "magical" mounts more or less as magic items - which means they follow the same rules for scarcity (i.e., they should be viewed as precious but not necessary). A pegasus/unicorn/nightmare/etc. is a pretty reasonable "reward" for upper-level Paladins and the like, but I wouldn't give one out just for having cast the spell (I might allow the spell to summon one the character has bonded with, though).
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
1) GM might allow is code words for the list is not complete and good DM can consider working with the player. As a DM, I would allow other things, especially at higher levels.
2) it is not a "beast". That is huge when things try to Target your mount! Lots of power here.
--
DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
Bran -- Human Wizard - RoT
Making D&D mistakes and having fun since 1977!
Entirely up to the DM, though typically I allow any creature in the back of the PHB with a CR of 2 or below. This is subject to change at higher levels obviously, but I've never had a player paladin go that far
I'd love a giant eagle. Hehe. But honestly that shouldn't break anything.
Right. There is a level at which it is not troublesome.
The good news is that Xanathar's guide has a new spell to summon greater steeds. It specifies griffons, pegusi, dire wolves, and others. May allow a DM to feel more comfortable giving a nightmare or dinosaur for a mount depending on the player to DM communications. Show your DM that spell and see what you can get away with.
#OpenDnD. #DnDBegone
The dire wolf seems lame though. Compared to virtually any other option....
Dire Wolf is a full CR less then everything else on this, so yes underwhelming.
Funny thing is if you really wanted to build a character around this spell a Bard: College of Lore is great for it, as they can cast lvl 4 Paladin spells at 7th lvl instead of waiting to 13th.
I had a human vengance paladin (bounty hunter), so I summoned a mastiff as a companion. He was my "infernal hunting hound".
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
That said the pegesus and preyton are human level intelligence.
FInd Greater Steed is the answer to our prayers, so many options and it opens up the door for discussion on similar ones.
I will however state that I feel this spell should actually be a paladin ability instead, like it was in 3.5, but what can ya do
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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#OpenDnD. #DnDBegone
I prefer the steed not being a paladin class feature, because in all honesty, I find paladin mounts to be more trouble than they're worth. In every edition I've ever played a paladin in, mounts have always been more of a pain in the rear than something useful. Mounts are for travel; rarely do they see entrance into combat, and I find they're in the way for dungeon exploration and have no point in social situations.
This way, everyone gets their cake and can eat it too.
Ah thank you for expanding, I see your point and completely agree. I never thought of it like that, but keeping it as a spell does make it more of an option rather than a must.