So I've got this level 4 wood elf ranger. I'm a bit stuck where to go. I hate multiclassing, but it seems like you have to in 5e to actually make a ranger do what it's supposed to do. Just curious what others have done with this class after level 4 or 5
It really depends on expectations and what you want to get out of the class. If you want your Ranger to hit like a Fighter, it won't. If you want it to sneak like a Rogue, it won't. If you want it to protect allies like a Pally, it won't.
If you want it to do consistently good damage, provide battlefield control, and help allies navigate the world around them (not just the much maligned 'exploration pillar') Rangers are fine. And their DPR is still pretty damn good even at 20th-level.
Rangers play quite differently from other classes so comparing them is actually pretty exhaustive for not much payoff. Play to a Ranger's strengths and you will find yourself consistently contributing. But if what you want is to hit really hard or heal a lot, then yeah. Multiclass out.
if you gave more specifics it would be helpful. Tasha"s options or no. what subclass did you take? what role do you like to play in combat? how does the party work tactically? Do you need high numbers or are you ok setting up another party member for the kill? do you like trading off lots of action types and weapons or prefer a similar tactic every round? Min-maxers need to distil out certain elements for comparisons and builds. when they do some of the ranger fun or hidden gem skills get lost in translation.
ok. I have less experience with a hordebreaker role but the hunter does seem good at it. I don't think you need to Multiclass. some things to think about.
get your dex/range attack as high as possible to use sharpshooter. Archery fighting style, +1 or 2 weapons, bracers of archery.
pay attention to spells that allow attacks to be made. many can work with sharpshooter.
your going to have to pay attention to your bonus action (and concentration). you may have some setup rounds to get full damage with hunters mark or other spells.
summons are your friend. They allow you to block movement and get op attacks from multiple locations. The new summon beast is great at lower levels. conjure animals is also good once you get it. they can be used for utility as well.
People would disagree with me but you probably don't want tasha's deft explorer. you probably want natural explorer. Favored foe from Tasha's is probably better than hunters mark in this case because it doesn't use a bonus action but taking favored enemy instead might give you more skill boosts than the extra damage when not using concentration.
Say away from melee or at least plan for it.(throwable melee weapons( work with some spells) or crossbow expert even if you don't use a crossbow)
interesting, perhaps my power gaming, min/max friend is just crazy then
If your friend is doing the typical number crunch stuff then it means they are looking at/for big single target weapon damage. It is true that a archer build with a starting base of ranger/5 will give you the most bang for your buck in terms of said single target weapon damage. Any ranger will give you the best/highest single target damage with a bow until level 11, at which point a level 11 fighter can take the lead a bit, only just.
The others have said it. People will play a ranger expecting a thing, and it turns out what they wanted to play was a fighter or rogue with hunter's mark. Play a ranger for a ranger. If you are building for pure single target weapon damage, take ranger/5, then add fighter/3 and rogue/x.
If you want some role in the game other than "shoot arrow, do damage", then rangers are for you. Look at their spell list and think of the spells more like class abilities. Many ranger spells enhance and/or supplement the baseline ranger and all of their subclasses in some way. Don't think of them as spells like we all do for clerics, wizards, druids, and paladins. Think of them as long rest class abilities. If you do, you'll have a lot of fun, I promise.
I was all set to take a 1 level rogue dip at 6th level. I wanted expertise for stealth and perception because, "That's the only way you can 'really' be a ranger". Then I got to 5th level and picked up the spell "pass without trace". That's all the stealth I'm likely to need. If I really feel the need to buff my perception, I can do that with a feat. Also, I'm playing a Drake warden and I don't want to hold up my subclass progression.
interesting, perhaps my power gaming, min/max friend is just crazy then
A lot of min maxing of multi-class builds is designed not around actual usefulness but what they can do in a single perfect moment that is almost never seen in actual play. In actual practice multi-classes tend to be more versatile but actually weaker in general. So it's not so much crazy as misguided by the perception that many multi-class guide creators push out for the player base to consume.
Also, because of the way multiclassing works, it takes a long time to come online compared to just single-classing. A lot of optimized multiclass builds will show you the end result, but don't really talk about the slog it is to get there.
For instance, going Ranger 5/Rogue 1, you're giving up your second Favored Enemy/Terrain (or your Foe/Deft buff) in exchange for...Thieves Cant and...1d6 Sneak Attack.
Rogue 2 gets you Uncanny Dodge, but it comes at the cost of a subclass feature. Rogue 3 gives you your Rogue subclass, but you're now giving up an ASI. You get it back on Rogue 4, but you just missed out on 3rd-level spells. So on and so forth. The end result might be good, but was the road you took to get there worth it?
I suppose that's an individual choice. Personally, I'd rather stick with full Ranger.
"For instance, going Ranger 5/Rogue 1, you're giving up your second Favored Enemy/Terrain (or your Foe/Deft buff) in exchange for...Thieves Cant and...1d6 Sneak Attack."
You didn't mention expertise but, as I said earlier, spell selection can meet or beat it. Otherwise, I agree with you. Especially since TCoE, the case for multi classing has been greatly weakened.
Ranger 7 usually has great sub-class powers. Hunter can have multi-attack defense or resistance to Frighten. Gloomstalkers get amazing Wisdom save proficiency… and if you are already at level 7, go to level 8 to get your precious ASI. Multiclass after 8.
"For instance, going Ranger 5/Rogue 1, you're giving up your second Favored Enemy/Terrain (or your Foe/Deft buff) in exchange for...Thieves Cant and...1d6 Sneak Attack."
You didn't mention expertise but, as I said earlier, spell selection can meet or beat it. Otherwise, I agree with you. Especially since TCoE, the case for multi classing has been greatly weakened.
Ranger 7 usually has great sub-class powers. Hunter can have multi-attack defense or resistance to Frighten. Gloomstalkers get amazing Wisdom save proficiency… and if you are already at level 7, go to level 8 to get your precious ASI. Multiclass after 8.
Level 9 is 3rd level spells! Some of the most power a high level ranger has comes from their level 3 spells and 3rd level spell slots. Game changing spells.
3rd level spells are about the only reason to stay with ranger until 9th level IMO but you have to be ok with Conjure Animals being your big go to for damage past 11th level.
Also assuming your game is using feats? You might want to stay in ranger just to get to that ASI/Feat at level 8 as feats are generally pretty good overall.
What you get if you stay in ranger:
Higher level spells, good class features (if you are using Tasha's ranger), and subclass features (YMMV).
What you get if you MC out:
Depends on the MC....with rogue you get expertise, single target damage, and cunning action at 2 levels rogue....which is always amazing.
Fighter- Fighting style, Second Wind, Action Surge (Great for nova damage), subclass (Battlemaster stacks VERY well with Sharpshooter thanks to precision attack)
Cleric- Cantrips (Guidance is pretty legit), versatility with healing/buff/debuff and swapping spells out per day, Channel Divinity (War stacks well with Sharpshooter) and cleric level 1 stuff (Good ones to look at are: War for extra bow attack, Order for helping your party attack, Twilight for ADV on initiative and sharable darkvision that goes out to 300ft)
Overall it depends on what you want from the class....for damage you are generally fine with ranger as long as you take sharpshooter and archery style. You can do more damage with a fighter dip into BM but you lose out on spell progression which could affect versatility. Rogue gives you better skill checks, mobility, and single target damage but same setback as fighter. Cleric is more about leaning into versatility and having options for how you handle situations.
No wrong answer as long as you are having fun though!
3rd level spells are about the only reason to stay with ranger until 9th level IMO but you have to be ok with Conjure Animals being your big go to for damage past 11th level.
Also assuming your game is using feats? You might want to stay in ranger just to get to that ASI/Feat at level 8 as feats are generally pretty good overall.
What you get if you stay in ranger:
Higher level spells, good class features (if you are using Tasha's ranger), and subclass features (YMMV).
What you get if you MC out:
Depends on the MC....with rogue you get expertise, single target damage, and cunning action at 2 levels rogue....which is always amazing.
Fighter- Fighting style, Second Wind, Action Surge (Great for nova damage), subclass (Battlemaster stacks VERY well with Sharpshooter thanks to precision attack)
Cleric- Cantrips (Guidance is pretty legit), versatility with healing/buff/debuff and swapping spells out per day, Channel Divinity (War stacks well with Sharpshooter) and cleric level 1 stuff (Good ones to look at are: War for extra bow attack, Order for helping your party attack, Twilight for ADV on initiative and sharable darkvision that goes out to 300ft)
Overall it depends on what you want from the class....for damage you are generally fine with ranger as long as you take sharpshooter and archery style. You can do more damage with a fighter dip into BM but you lose out on spell progression which could affect versatility. Rogue gives you better skill checks, mobility, and single target damage but same setback as fighter. Cleric is more about leaning into versatility and having options for how you handle situations.
No wrong answer as long as you are having fun though!
yeah. Because Conjure Barrage and lightning Arrow aren't going to do a bunch of damage for you and are going to be short circuited by the first enemy mage willing to fireball members of his own party so your summons all die regardless of their saves.
That's the part people never mention about Conjure animals. That if you want 8 of them the highest hp that they have is 22. (there is one beast that has higher but it can't attack, and only gives 6 temporary hp and the benefit of remove curse if touched.) Considering that fireballs average damage is 24 at base casting. Well people can really do the math. And it's not really any better for the version where you summon 4 either. They survive a bit longer with the other two options but you also only get 1 or 2 of such creatures. And upcasting the spell doesn't make them stronger. It only makes more of them to die in one shot like your Anakin Skywalker murdering Younglings.
3rd level spells are about the only reason to stay with ranger until 9th level IMO but you have to be ok with Conjure Animals being your big go to for damage past 11th level.
Also assuming your game is using feats? You might want to stay in ranger just to get to that ASI/Feat at level 8 as feats are generally pretty good overall.
What you get if you stay in ranger:
Higher level spells, good class features (if you are using Tasha's ranger), and subclass features (YMMV).
What you get if you MC out:
Depends on the MC....with rogue you get expertise, single target damage, and cunning action at 2 levels rogue....which is always amazing.
Fighter- Fighting style, Second Wind, Action Surge (Great for nova damage), subclass (Battlemaster stacks VERY well with Sharpshooter thanks to precision attack)
Cleric- Cantrips (Guidance is pretty legit), versatility with healing/buff/debuff and swapping spells out per day, Channel Divinity (War stacks well with Sharpshooter) and cleric level 1 stuff (Good ones to look at are: War for extra bow attack, Order for helping your party attack, Twilight for ADV on initiative and sharable darkvision that goes out to 300ft)
Overall it depends on what you want from the class....for damage you are generally fine with ranger as long as you take sharpshooter and archery style. You can do more damage with a fighter dip into BM but you lose out on spell progression which could affect versatility. Rogue gives you better skill checks, mobility, and single target damage but same setback as fighter. Cleric is more about leaning into versatility and having options for how you handle situations.
No wrong answer as long as you are having fun though!
yeah. Because Conjure Barrage and lightning Arrow aren't going to do a bunch of damage for you and are going to be short circuited by the first enemy mage willing to fireball members of his own party so your summons all die regardless of their saves.
That's the part people never mention about Conjure animals. That if you want 8 of them the highest hp that they have is 22. (there is one beast that has higher but it can't attack, and only gives 6 temporary hp and the benefit of remove curse if touched.) Considering that fireballs average damage is 24 at base casting. Well people can really do the math. And it's not really any better for the version where you summon 4 either. They survive a bit longer with the other two options but you also only get 1 or 2 of such creatures. And upcasting the spell doesn't make them stronger. It only makes more of them to die in one shot like your Anakin Skywalker murdering Younglings.
They aren't doing much damage comparatively no.
Also you say fireball but how many creatures really have fireball? And of this who wants to fireball themselves when surrounded by creatures? Also good chance they make the save and you just about killed yourself with a fireball and still have creatures to deal with.
Also any damage they take is damage the party isn't taking and an action and spell slot wasted to not even hurt you.
3rd level spells are about the only reason to stay with ranger until 9th level IMO but you have to be ok with Conjure Animals being your big go to for damage past 11th level.
Also assuming your game is using feats? You might want to stay in ranger just to get to that ASI/Feat at level 8 as feats are generally pretty good overall.
What you get if you stay in ranger:
Higher level spells, good class features (if you are using Tasha's ranger), and subclass features (YMMV).
What you get if you MC out:
Depends on the MC....with rogue you get expertise, single target damage, and cunning action at 2 levels rogue....which is always amazing.
Fighter- Fighting style, Second Wind, Action Surge (Great for nova damage), subclass (Battlemaster stacks VERY well with Sharpshooter thanks to precision attack)
Cleric- Cantrips (Guidance is pretty legit), versatility with healing/buff/debuff and swapping spells out per day, Channel Divinity (War stacks well with Sharpshooter) and cleric level 1 stuff (Good ones to look at are: War for extra bow attack, Order for helping your party attack, Twilight for ADV on initiative and sharable darkvision that goes out to 300ft)
Overall it depends on what you want from the class....for damage you are generally fine with ranger as long as you take sharpshooter and archery style. You can do more damage with a fighter dip into BM but you lose out on spell progression which could affect versatility. Rogue gives you better skill checks, mobility, and single target damage but same setback as fighter. Cleric is more about leaning into versatility and having options for how you handle situations.
No wrong answer as long as you are having fun though!
yeah. Because Conjure Barrage and lightning Arrow aren't going to do a bunch of damage for you and are going to be short circuited by the first enemy mage willing to fireball members of his own party so your summons all die regardless of their saves.
That's the part people never mention about Conjure animals. That if you want 8 of them the highest hp that they have is 22. (there is one beast that has higher but it can't attack, and only gives 6 temporary hp and the benefit of remove curse if touched.) Considering that fireballs average damage is 24 at base casting. Well people can really do the math. And it's not really any better for the version where you summon 4 either. They survive a bit longer with the other two options but you also only get 1 or 2 of such creatures. And upcasting the spell doesn't make them stronger. It only makes more of them to die in one shot like your Anakin Skywalker murdering Younglings.
They aren't doing much damage comparatively no.
Also you say fireball but how many creatures really have fireball? And of this who wants to fireball themselves when surrounded by creatures? Also good chance they make the save and you just about killed yourself with a fireball and still have creatures to deal with.
Also any damage they take is damage the party isn't taking and an action and spell slot wasted to not even hurt you.
even if you only get one round of damage or damage mitigation the Conjure animals is worth it.
3rd level spells are about the only reason to stay with ranger until 9th level IMO but you have to be ok with Conjure Animals being your big go to for damage past 11th level.
Also assuming your game is using feats? You might want to stay in ranger just to get to that ASI/Feat at level 8 as feats are generally pretty good overall.
What you get if you stay in ranger:
Higher level spells, good class features (if you are using Tasha's ranger), and subclass features (YMMV).
What you get if you MC out:
Depends on the MC....with rogue you get expertise, single target damage, and cunning action at 2 levels rogue....which is always amazing.
Fighter- Fighting style, Second Wind, Action Surge (Great for nova damage), subclass (Battlemaster stacks VERY well with Sharpshooter thanks to precision attack)
Cleric- Cantrips (Guidance is pretty legit), versatility with healing/buff/debuff and swapping spells out per day, Channel Divinity (War stacks well with Sharpshooter) and cleric level 1 stuff (Good ones to look at are: War for extra bow attack, Order for helping your party attack, Twilight for ADV on initiative and sharable darkvision that goes out to 300ft)
Overall it depends on what you want from the class....for damage you are generally fine with ranger as long as you take sharpshooter and archery style. You can do more damage with a fighter dip into BM but you lose out on spell progression which could affect versatility. Rogue gives you better skill checks, mobility, and single target damage but same setback as fighter. Cleric is more about leaning into versatility and having options for how you handle situations.
No wrong answer as long as you are having fun though!
yeah. Because Conjure Barrage and lightning Arrow aren't going to do a bunch of damage for you and are going to be short circuited by the first enemy mage willing to fireball members of his own party so your summons all die regardless of their saves.
That's the part people never mention about Conjure animals. That if you want 8 of them the highest hp that they have is 22. (there is one beast that has higher but it can't attack, and only gives 6 temporary hp and the benefit of remove curse if touched.) Considering that fireballs average damage is 24 at base casting. Well people can really do the math. And it's not really any better for the version where you summon 4 either. They survive a bit longer with the other two options but you also only get 1 or 2 of such creatures. And upcasting the spell doesn't make them stronger. It only makes more of them to die in one shot like your Anakin Skywalker murdering Younglings.
They aren't doing much damage comparatively no.
Also you say fireball but how many creatures really have fireball? And of this who wants to fireball themselves when surrounded by creatures? Also good chance they make the save and you just about killed yourself with a fireball and still have creatures to deal with.
Also any damage they take is damage the party isn't taking and an action and spell slot wasted to not even hurt you.
even if you only get one round of damage or damage mitigation the Conjure animals is worth it.
Exactly its a must pick
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Hi
So I've got this level 4 wood elf ranger. I'm a bit stuck where to go. I hate multiclassing, but it seems like you have to in 5e to actually make a ranger do what it's supposed to do. Just curious what others have done with this class after level 4 or 5
thanks
I've stayed Ranger through level 20 and never had any issues.
interesting, perhaps my power gaming, min/max friend is just crazy then
It really depends on expectations and what you want to get out of the class. If you want your Ranger to hit like a Fighter, it won't. If you want it to sneak like a Rogue, it won't. If you want it to protect allies like a Pally, it won't.
If you want it to do consistently good damage, provide battlefield control, and help allies navigate the world around them (not just the much maligned 'exploration pillar') Rangers are fine. And their DPR is still pretty damn good even at 20th-level.
Rangers play quite differently from other classes so comparing them is actually pretty exhaustive for not much payoff. Play to a Ranger's strengths and you will find yourself consistently contributing. But if what you want is to hit really hard or heal a lot, then yeah. Multiclass out.
if you gave more specifics it would be helpful. Tasha"s options or no. what subclass did you take? what role do you like to play in combat? how does the party work tactically? Do you need high numbers or are you ok setting up another party member for the kill? do you like trading off lots of action types and weapons or prefer a similar tactic every round? Min-maxers need to distil out certain elements for comparisons and builds. when they do some of the ranger fun or hidden gem skills get lost in translation.
there's only 2 pc players and an NPC. I took the Hunter/Horde Breaker role. I like the sound of crowd control and navigation.
ok. I have less experience with a hordebreaker role but the hunter does seem good at it. I don't think you need to Multiclass. some things to think about.
If your friend is doing the typical number crunch stuff then it means they are looking at/for big single target weapon damage. It is true that a archer build with a starting base of ranger/5 will give you the most bang for your buck in terms of said single target weapon damage. Any ranger will give you the best/highest single target damage with a bow until level 11, at which point a level 11 fighter can take the lead a bit, only just.
The others have said it. People will play a ranger expecting a thing, and it turns out what they wanted to play was a fighter or rogue with hunter's mark. Play a ranger for a ranger. If you are building for pure single target weapon damage, take ranger/5, then add fighter/3 and rogue/x.
If you want some role in the game other than "shoot arrow, do damage", then rangers are for you. Look at their spell list and think of the spells more like class abilities. Many ranger spells enhance and/or supplement the baseline ranger and all of their subclasses in some way. Don't think of them as spells like we all do for clerics, wizards, druids, and paladins. Think of them as long rest class abilities. If you do, you'll have a lot of fun, I promise.
I was all set to take a 1 level rogue dip at 6th level. I wanted expertise for stealth and perception because, "That's the only way you can 'really' be a ranger". Then I got to 5th level and picked up the spell "pass without trace". That's all the stealth I'm likely to need. If I really feel the need to buff my perception, I can do that with a feat. Also, I'm playing a Drake warden and I don't want to hold up my subclass progression.
A lot of min maxing of multi-class builds is designed not around actual usefulness but what they can do in a single perfect moment that is almost never seen in actual play. In actual practice multi-classes tend to be more versatile but actually weaker in general. So it's not so much crazy as misguided by the perception that many multi-class guide creators push out for the player base to consume.
Also, because of the way multiclassing works, it takes a long time to come online compared to just single-classing. A lot of optimized multiclass builds will show you the end result, but don't really talk about the slog it is to get there.
For instance, going Ranger 5/Rogue 1, you're giving up your second Favored Enemy/Terrain (or your Foe/Deft buff) in exchange for...Thieves Cant and...1d6 Sneak Attack.
Rogue 2 gets you Uncanny Dodge, but it comes at the cost of a subclass feature. Rogue 3 gives you your Rogue subclass, but you're now giving up an ASI. You get it back on Rogue 4, but you just missed out on 3rd-level spells. So on and so forth. The end result might be good, but was the road you took to get there worth it?
I suppose that's an individual choice. Personally, I'd rather stick with full Ranger.
"For instance, going Ranger 5/Rogue 1, you're giving up your second Favored Enemy/Terrain (or your Foe/Deft buff) in exchange for...Thieves Cant and...1d6 Sneak Attack."
You didn't mention expertise but, as I said earlier, spell selection can meet or beat it. Otherwise, I agree with you. Especially since TCoE, the case for multi classing has been greatly weakened.
Ranger 7 usually has great sub-class powers. Hunter can have multi-attack defense or resistance to Frighten. Gloomstalkers get amazing Wisdom save proficiency… and if you are already at level 7, go to level 8 to get your precious ASI. Multiclass after 8.
I also forgot Land's Stride at Ranger 8. My bad.
I think my overall point still stands tho.
Level 9 is 3rd level spells! Some of the most power a high level ranger has comes from their level 3 spells and 3rd level spell slots. Game changing spells.
3rd level spells are about the only reason to stay with ranger until 9th level IMO but you have to be ok with Conjure Animals being your big go to for damage past 11th level.
Also assuming your game is using feats? You might want to stay in ranger just to get to that ASI/Feat at level 8 as feats are generally pretty good overall.
What you get if you stay in ranger:
Higher level spells, good class features (if you are using Tasha's ranger), and subclass features (YMMV).
What you get if you MC out:
Depends on the MC....with rogue you get expertise, single target damage, and cunning action at 2 levels rogue....which is always amazing.
Fighter- Fighting style, Second Wind, Action Surge (Great for nova damage), subclass (Battlemaster stacks VERY well with Sharpshooter thanks to precision attack)
Cleric- Cantrips (Guidance is pretty legit), versatility with healing/buff/debuff and swapping spells out per day, Channel Divinity (War stacks well with Sharpshooter) and cleric level 1 stuff (Good ones to look at are: War for extra bow attack, Order for helping your party attack, Twilight for ADV on initiative and sharable darkvision that goes out to 300ft)
Overall it depends on what you want from the class....for damage you are generally fine with ranger as long as you take sharpshooter and archery style. You can do more damage with a fighter dip into BM but you lose out on spell progression which could affect versatility. Rogue gives you better skill checks, mobility, and single target damage but same setback as fighter. Cleric is more about leaning into versatility and having options for how you handle situations.
No wrong answer as long as you are having fun though!
yeah. Because Conjure Barrage and lightning Arrow aren't going to do a bunch of damage for you and are going to be short circuited by the first enemy mage willing to fireball members of his own party so your summons all die regardless of their saves.
That's the part people never mention about Conjure animals. That if you want 8 of them the highest hp that they have is 22. (there is one beast that has higher but it can't attack, and only gives 6 temporary hp and the benefit of remove curse if touched.) Considering that fireballs average damage is 24 at base casting. Well people can really do the math. And it's not really any better for the version where you summon 4 either. They survive a bit longer with the other two options but you also only get 1 or 2 of such creatures. And upcasting the spell doesn't make them stronger. It only makes more of them to die in one shot like your Anakin Skywalker murdering Younglings.
They aren't doing much damage comparatively no.
Also you say fireball but how many creatures really have fireball? And of this who wants to fireball themselves when surrounded by creatures? Also good chance they make the save and you just about killed yourself with a fireball and still have creatures to deal with.
Also any damage they take is damage the party isn't taking and an action and spell slot wasted to not even hurt you.
even if you only get one round of damage or damage mitigation the Conjure animals is worth it.
Exactly its a must pick