Hello all. I'm currently building a 9th level character for our groups upcoming campaign. I've decided to go up to 5th level Hunter Ranger for Thrown-weapon Fighting, Colossus Slayer, and Extra Attack (I am set on these choices). But I'm considering multi-classing for the next 4 levels vs going full Ranger.
Combat at 9th level would go something like this:
Turn 1: BA Hunters Mark > Thrown Attack 1d4+5+2+1d6 (13 avg dmg) > Extra Thrown Attack 1d4+5+2+1d6+1d8 (17.5 avg dmg)= 30.5 avg dmg
Originally, I thought Scout Rogue might work well for this build. An extra 2d6 (7 avg dmg) a turn and Expertise are really good and Skirmisher would essentially free up my bonus action on my next turn if some gets to close to me.
As mentioned before, my first 5 levels are set in stone. I am, however, entirely open to suggestions for the next 4 levels. It needs to be a level 4 dip for the ASI. I am also open to being MAD if the class features are worth it. Also, the campaign is known to be pretty brutal so I likely won't live passed 9th level.
What are your thoughts on a good class dip for this build? Thanks in advance!
Rogue might not work, depending on what you are throwing. Sneak attack only works with finesse and ranged weapons, and thrown is not ranged. So it could work with a dagger (which seems like it is your plan, but I’m not 100%) but not something like an ax, javelin or hammer.
Another thing to consider could be battle master fighter to get the quick toss maneuver. I suppose it might conflict with hunters mark, but you’ll only have a few of quick tosses, so it might work nicely to give you a bonus action when the enemy is still up. And of course action surge is always useful.
Yes. I'd be throwing daggers. Not sure why I was tryoing to stay away from fighter. Just the class alone gets me more damage, especially on round 1 with action surge. There are some great maneuvers I can take though I'm not sure I'd take Quick Toss only because according to the rules of two-weapon fighting, I already have a bonus action attack after throwing my first dagger. I think Quick Toss would be redundant. But Battle Master is definitely in the running.. Thanks.
I do understand that as a downfall. But you're not always going to get magical weapons. And yes, there will be creatures invulnerable to my attacks, but I will have a few spells up my sleeve to mitigate that.
Quick toss gets the superiority die of extra damage. Also, I wonder about it as two weapon fighting. If you’re using your bonus action for twf, I’d think the normal twf rules would apply — no ability modifier to damage. Quick toss, I think, is an exception that would allow it, mostly because it doesn’t say you don’t. You’re not two weapon fighting, you’re quick tossing. Probably need a DM ruling there.
Either way, keep in mind the extra attack from fighter and ranger doesn’t stack. So fighter 4 for the asi makes sense, but fighter 5 would give you nothing.
Well, ultimately, i'd still get 3 "attacks". Just wouldn't be able to use quick toss every turn. I prefer to use less resources with the off-hand attack. And with Fighter 4, i can grab the two-weapon fighting style and ASI: DEX +2 to give me that +5 dmg (my DEX is 20 by this point) bonus to all my attacks. Maybe Battle Master for the battlefield control maneuvers or rune knight for Giant's Might for an extra 1d6 every turn?
Artificer 2 or 4 might be an option worth exploring. You get returning weapon and the concentration armor plus you don't lose any spell slots. You still have to worry about offhand ammo but that's less than a third of your attacks. If you go to 4 to get the feat you can pick up armorer for some stealth and movement buffs.
I would like to point out most people forget darts. Darts are both ranged and thrown weapons. They have a lot of compatibility. sharpshooter and archery fighting style if you get another from fighter. still better to carry both darts and daggers just in case of op attacks. Although my dms usually let me use darts as improvised weapons for a d4 for op attacks.
I would like to point out most people forget darts. Darts are both ranged and thrown weapons. They have a lot of compatibility. sharpshooter and archery fighting style if you get another from fighter. still better to carry both darts and daggers just in case of op attacks. Although my dms usually let me use darts as improvised weapons for a d4 for op attacks.
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Darts have a drawback in that you can't use them with two weapon fighting since they are not light melee weapons. So this means one less attack on turns you don't use your bonus for something else.
If you went fighter as the multiclass you could stack archery and thrown weapon fighting with darts though getting a bonus to both attacks and damage. You are right that it works with sharpshooter, but that is not that powerful when you are getting a +2 damage and extra dice from things like hunters mark, collosus slayer and things you will get from a subclass like sneak attack or battlemaster maneuvers.
I think without Returning Weapon a lack of magic weapons is really going to come back to bite you, especially if the campaign is supposed to be brutal. You will face plenty of resistant and even some immune enemies.
Unless your DM has communicated they will hook it up in a timely manner with some kind of returning thrown weapon or another item that solves the problem, I think Artificer is the way to go here.
if you look in the magic weapons with homebrew on you should see dagger +2 of throwing - level 9 is about right to find that so you can trty to talk your DM into letting you have them. the other thing to look at is whwat you are missing by multiclassing vs what you get by going full ranger: favoured Enemy/Foe improvements, Natural Explorer or equivalent improvements, 2 more spells known including a L3 spell, Land's Stride, your choice of the L7 Hunter defensives (Escape the Horde (OA against you at disadvantage)/ Multiattack Defense (+4 AC agaisnt further attacks that round from same creature)/Steel Will (advantage on saves vs fear)) and 4 extra HP over Rogue
If the magic weapon problem is solved outside of class mechanics, then I think fighter is the way to go for your MC. You won't be built for good concentration, so going for 3rd level ranger spells is lackluster. Instead I would aim to pick up a bunch of features that make your knives more deadly.
Dueling Fighting Style to stack with Thrown (yes, this works, but you will have to drop your twf shtick) and Action surge and Quick Toss for more attacks.
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Hello all. I'm currently building a 9th level character for our groups upcoming campaign. I've decided to go up to 5th level Hunter Ranger for Thrown-weapon Fighting, Colossus Slayer, and Extra Attack (I am set on these choices). But I'm considering multi-classing for the next 4 levels vs going full Ranger.
Combat at 9th level would go something like this:
Turn 1: BA Hunters Mark > Thrown Attack 1d4+5+2+1d6 (13 avg dmg) > Extra Thrown Attack 1d4+5+2+1d6+1d8 (17.5 avg dmg)= 30.5 avg dmg
Turn 2: Thrown Attack 1d4+5+2+1d6+1d8 (17.5 avg dmg) > Off-hand Thrown Attack 1d4+2+1d6 (8 avg dmg)> Extra Thrown Attack 1d4+5+2+1d6 (13 avg dmg)= 38.5 avg damage
Originally, I thought Scout Rogue might work well for this build. An extra 2d6 (7 avg dmg) a turn and Expertise are really good and Skirmisher would essentially free up my bonus action on my next turn if some gets to close to me.
As mentioned before, my first 5 levels are set in stone. I am, however, entirely open to suggestions for the next 4 levels. It needs to be a level 4 dip for the ASI. I am also open to being MAD if the class features are worth it. Also, the campaign is known to be pretty brutal so I likely won't live passed 9th level.
What are your thoughts on a good class dip for this build? Thanks in advance!
Rogue might not work, depending on what you are throwing. Sneak attack only works with finesse and ranged weapons, and thrown is not ranged. So it could work with a dagger (which seems like it is your plan, but I’m not 100%) but not something like an ax, javelin or hammer.
Another thing to consider could be battle master fighter to get the quick toss maneuver. I suppose it might conflict with hunters mark, but you’ll only have a few of quick tosses, so it might work nicely to give you a bonus action when the enemy is still up. And of course action surge is always useful.
Yes. I'd be throwing daggers. Not sure why I was tryoing to stay away from fighter. Just the class alone gets me more damage, especially on round 1 with action surge. There are some great maneuvers I can take though I'm not sure I'd take Quick Toss only because according to the rules of two-weapon fighting, I already have a bonus action attack after throwing my first dagger. I think Quick Toss would be redundant. But Battle Master is definitely in the running.. Thanks.
I do understand that as a downfall. But you're not always going to get magical weapons. And yes, there will be creatures invulnerable to my attacks, but I will have a few spells up my sleeve to mitigate that.
Quick toss gets the superiority die of extra damage. Also, I wonder about it as two weapon fighting. If you’re using your bonus action for twf, I’d think the normal twf rules would apply — no ability modifier to damage. Quick toss, I think, is an exception that would allow it, mostly because it doesn’t say you don’t. You’re not two weapon fighting, you’re quick tossing. Probably need a DM ruling there.
Either way, keep in mind the extra attack from fighter and ranger doesn’t stack. So fighter 4 for the asi makes sense, but fighter 5 would give you nothing.
Well, ultimately, i'd still get 3 "attacks". Just wouldn't be able to use quick toss every turn. I prefer to use less resources with the off-hand attack. And with Fighter 4, i can grab the two-weapon fighting style and ASI: DEX +2 to give me that +5 dmg (my DEX is 20 by this point) bonus to all my attacks. Maybe Battle Master for the battlefield control maneuvers or rune knight for Giant's Might for an extra 1d6 every turn?
Artificer 2 or 4 might be an option worth exploring. You get returning weapon and the concentration armor plus you don't lose any spell slots. You still have to worry about offhand ammo but that's less than a third of your attacks. If you go to 4 to get the feat you can pick up armorer for some stealth and movement buffs.
A few options:
1. Monk - This would let you use better weapons than a dagger and still use dexterity for your bonus. Kensai could give you a bonus action attack too.
2. Fighter/Battlemaster - As others have noted quick toss maneuver, plus another fighting style
3. Rogue - Scout, Phantom, soul knife and arcane trickster would all work well here.
4. War Wizard if you have the intelligence - lots of spell slots, shield spell
I would like to point out most people forget darts. Darts are both ranged and thrown weapons. They have a lot of compatibility. sharpshooter and archery fighting style if you get another from fighter. still better to carry both darts and daggers just in case of op attacks. Although my dms usually let me use darts as improvised weapons for a d4 for op attacks.
'
Darts have a drawback in that you can't use them with two weapon fighting since they are not light melee weapons. So this means one less attack on turns you don't use your bonus for something else.
If you went fighter as the multiclass you could stack archery and thrown weapon fighting with darts though getting a bonus to both attacks and damage. You are right that it works with sharpshooter, but that is not that powerful when you are getting a +2 damage and extra dice from things like hunters mark, collosus slayer and things you will get from a subclass like sneak attack or battlemaster maneuvers.
if you have extra attack you could hold 2 daggers, attack action dagger + draw and use Dart, bonus action dagger?
or for a BM fighter attack: dart, dart BA : quick toss dart
sneak attack should also still be compatible.
I think without Returning Weapon a lack of magic weapons is really going to come back to bite you, especially if the campaign is supposed to be brutal. You will face plenty of resistant and even some immune enemies.
Unless your DM has communicated they will hook it up in a timely manner with some kind of returning thrown weapon or another item that solves the problem, I think Artificer is the way to go here.
if you look in the magic weapons with homebrew on you should see dagger +2 of throwing - level 9 is about right to find that so you can trty to talk your DM into letting you have them. the other thing to look at is whwat you are missing by multiclassing vs what you get by going full ranger: favoured Enemy/Foe improvements, Natural Explorer or equivalent improvements, 2 more spells known including a L3 spell, Land's Stride, your choice of the L7 Hunter defensives (Escape the Horde (OA against you at disadvantage)/ Multiattack Defense (+4 AC agaisnt further attacks that round from same creature)/Steel Will (advantage on saves vs fear)) and 4 extra HP over Rogue
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Just wanted to add that Bracers of Throwing Daggers would be fantastic for this.
If the magic weapon problem is solved outside of class mechanics, then I think fighter is the way to go for your MC. You won't be built for good concentration, so going for 3rd level ranger spells is lackluster. Instead I would aim to pick up a bunch of features that make your knives more deadly.
Dueling Fighting Style to stack with Thrown (yes, this works, but you will have to drop your twf shtick) and Action surge and Quick Toss for more attacks.