I like the 2024 ranger - its not my ideal but overall its an improvement over even Tasha's. The gaining of expertise's allows you build it the way you want while allowing a traditionalist like me to build a ranger that is every bit as good in the wilderness as a scout rogue.to me, the argument over whether hunter's mark is core to the class because 4 features are linked to it is actually nonsense. hunter's mark has always been about doing max damage to one foe for as long as possible. this hasn't changed. it and the attached features are still all about doing max damage to a single foe and nearly useless when facing many low to medium HP foes, then you need to use other concentration spells like entangle, zephyr strike or summon animals anyway and now they are all easier to take and keep as you get HM for free and it doesn't count against the spells you prepare. most of the complaints I've heard about the ranger over the last 40+ years have to do with the fact that it's not just one simple thing. It is, probably, the most complex class to play as you are constantly balancing between martial and casting choices as well as between dealing with the BBEG or their minions. The ranger has always been a gish - trying to make it purely a martial or purely a mage is useless and counter to how best to play and use its abilities. I too would like to see it get 2 expertise's early and then 2 more later. Actually, I liked the UA2 ranger better than the later one, the 2014 version or this one, but this one is the next best thing to me.
Exactly. I like it, almost love it but it is a really good Ranger that will allow me to build a character I enjoy. I'm looking forward to seeing the backgrounds and which ones will lean into the Ranger class.
Hunters mark with concentration is perfect.* IF the spell list otherwise has way less concentration spells for combat. I still hope to read that the ranger gets Con saving throws instead of Dex. That would not only help them to concentrate on spells but also to survive in the wilderness.
I am really looking forward to see the complete spell list. I hope swift quiver as one of their capstone spells loses concentration.
*hunter's mark without concentration is too strong.
Same as OP small improvement but disappointing. The problem with Ranger is it’s too easy to be OP. You can’t be the best Fighter, Rogue, and Druid wrapped up in one. It’s a fun RP but would be OP if you played it out. It was the first character I made and I think it’s a lot of fun to play from the RP side but combat is lackluster and many of the utilities in the clsss are too situational to be useful. You just have to device if you’re ok with that before going in. I don’t get the 2024 lvl 20 option of adding 1 d10 dice though. I know most campaigns don’t go that high anyway but the class really needs some attention on the later levels.
I don’t get the 2024 lvl 20 option of adding 1 d10 dice though. I know most campaigns don’t go that high anyway but the class really needs some attention on the later levels.
WoTC seems to be trying to push us to play high level content... basically they are trying to adopt an MMO mindset of "Endgame" being the ideal content and everything else doesn't matter beyond getting you to that level cap.
Not only are they putting carrots in the cap, though the ranger one sucks (have saw a single rumor that Hunters Mark scales it's dice number with level so if that's true then the cap is powerful), they are also moving abilities that were lower down to the higher levels as well.
The other thing WoTC is doing is trying to integrate more punishments into the classes to keep players from multi-classing.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I played every edition except 4th and for a long time I felt they have no idea what to do with rangers. I didn't care for getting rid of Land’s Stride and the features you get higher level are too little too late IMHO. How many groups go past level 14?
While I can understand why the Gloom Stalker was changed I have to ask if they made it a little too weak
I have mixed feelings about making rangers prepared casters instead of known casters as I see known casters as a good concept poorly executed.. Years ago I played Rolemaster where all casters are known casters and it worked
Alright, now seeing the entirety of the new Ranger class I can say: It's fine. I'm still going to homebrew the hell out of those level 13 and 20 features though.
Relentless Hunter : Taking damage can't break your Concentration on Hunter's Mark and the damage die is a d8 rather than a d6. When a marked creature is incapacitated or has their hit points moved to 0 you can use your reaction to move the mark to another creature.
Foe Slayer: The damage of your Hunter's Mark is a d10 rather than a d8. In addition, Whenever you hit a creature affected by your Hunter's Mark you can immediately end the mark and cause that attack to deal maximum damage instead of rolling. If the attack reduces the creature to 50 hit points or fewer, it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your Spell Save DC or instantly be reduced to 0 hit points (this is just taken from Laserllama's Alt-Ranger... but it deserves to be on this new ranger).
your relentless hunter homebrew looks reasonable. I like the change on reaction rather bonus action as it makes sense after a kill. I really liked the original Foe slayer - everyone seemed to only look at the +5 damage which I grant is weak. the key there that I still think everyone missed is the +WB to hit on one attack. That is a +10 to 25% to hit the marked foe when you really need to hit it which can be huge. For a real capstone I would have made it usable on every attack not just 1. your kill them if they drop below 50 HP is really too powerful changing the original to WB to hit AND damage on each attack against the marked foe would be a real capstone. It would also provide a reason to use that L19 ASI on wisdom to make it even more effective when you get it.
your relentless hunter homebrew looks reasonable. I like the change on reaction rather bonus action as it makes sense after a kill. I really liked the original Foe slayer - everyone seemed to only look at the +5 damage which I grant is weak. the key there that I still think everyone missed is the +WB to hit on one attack. That is a +10 to 25% to hit the marked foe when you really need to hit it which can be huge. For a real capstone I would have made it usable on every attack not just 1. your kill them if they drop below 50 HP is really too powerful changing the original to WB to hit AND damage on each attack against the marked foe would be a real capstone. It would also provide a reason to use that L19 ASI on wisdom to make it even more effective when you get it.
Keep in mind this is a capstone ability. Dropping an opponent to 50 or below and then making them succeed on a Con save (something that creatures CR 20 and above almost always have a lot of) or drop to 0 isn't the craziest thing. However, seeing as they got rid of the Open Hand's ability to drop people to 0 it could be a design that they are trying to move away from.
Maybe have it so that, if you are to end your Hunter's Mark in this way you get max damage AND you auto crit? I mainly want the title of the feature to mean something. Foe Slayer should involve the Ranger SLAYING.
It was either this or giving each subclass abilities that play with Hunter's Mark at level 13 / 20. An example, Fey Wanderer Hunter's Marks give the affected creature disadvantage against rolls that charm or frighten them at level 13. Then at level 20 your Hunter's Mark becomes a minor version of Dominate Monster.
I've never been in favor of anything doing damage and then if they pass a threshold "one shotting" a foe - at least in part because any ruling that lets me do that also lets the foe do it to me. I had a case way back in 2E when a L10 psionic character was facing off with a Balor and one-shot it with a psychic crush. what should have been a fierce battle turned into a cake walk. Your idea of auto-crit max damage I would have no problem with.
I've DMed for a group that had a ranger (from the last ua) and went from level 1 to level 6. And i have to say: early level ranger is pretty good and potent.
Now that i know the oficial ranger rules. I'm still happy with early game ranger. Pretty solid class 9/10 i would say.
My main problem is the level 13 and level 20 features are just terrible. What i would like to see is:
Lvl 13 - Remove Hunter's Mark Concentration.
Lvl 20 - either something else entirelly that is not related to HM OR make it a 2d6 instead of 1d10
Frank, it’s been discussed n the other big ranger thread in the general discussion. Azktor, rangers have always been strong at lower levels (as well as high). You are right about the capstone. The concentration isn’t going away despite all the complaints about it as it’s too powerful as a continuing spell you can add others on top of. I’ve said elsewhere that what I would have preferred was making it WIsdom Bonus to both hit and damage on every attack against a marked foe. That gives you a reason to use the L19 ASI on wisdom and gaining a +10 to +25 % on each attack is a solid capstone.
Frank, it’s been discussed n the other big ranger thread in the general discussion. Azktor, rangers have always been strong at lower levels (as well as high). You are right about the capstone. The concentration isn’t going away despite all the complaints about it as it’s too powerful as a continuing spell you can add others on top of. I’ve said elsewhere that what I would have preferred was making it WIsdom Bonus to both hit and damage on every attack against a marked foe. That gives you a reason to use the L19 ASI on wisdom and gaining a +10 to +25 % on each attack is a solid capstone.
Yeah ranger were strong on 2014, but the New one with free hunters Mark + Nick mastery + 2 atks on lvl 1-4 and 3 on lvl 5+ is probably one of the best early game dpr in the game.
I would not mind wisdom as both dmg and atk bônus vs hm target.. better than 1d6->1d10 casptone.
But i would love something else completely, maybe a defensive feature? A saving throw help for rangers perhaps. But we got what we have... só no reaaon to complain. I will probably homebrew the lvl 13/20 something better and less feelsbad for my players.
Has anyone talked about how the D24 beast master can make a total of 5 attacks a round starting at level 11?
I would rather have intresting features rather than extra attacks. That playstyle is suited to fighter appeal more so than ranger fantasy. More powerful isn't necessarily better overall.
Especially since the new small creature flying build now works for find familiar with giant fly or vultures. Meanwhile rangers get that play taken away entirely. (Note I never played ranger that way as I saw it as too risky but that doesn't mean it should be removed or was problematic. Thats a different discussion)
Has anyone talked about how the D24 beast master can make a total of 5 attacks a round starting at level 11?
I would rather have intresting features rather than extra attacks. That playstyle is suited to fighter appeal more so than ranger fantasy. More powerful isn't necessarily better overall.
Especially since the new small creature flying build now works for find familiar with giant fly or vultures. Meanwhile rangers get that play taken away entirely. (Note I never played ranger that way as I saw it as too risky but that doesn't mean it should be removed or was problematic. Thats a different discussion)
I 100% agree. I've disliked the 5 attacks since TCoE.
Has anyone talked about how the D24 beast master can make a total of 5 attacks a round starting at level 11?
I would rather have intresting features rather than extra attacks. That playstyle is suited to fighter appeal more so than ranger fantasy. More powerful isn't necessarily better overall.
Especially since the new small creature flying build now works for find familiar with giant fly or vultures. Meanwhile rangers get that play taken away entirely. (Note I never played ranger that way as I saw it as too risky but that doesn't mean it should be removed or was problematic. Thats a different discussion)
That's personal preference though. Many people would prefer the 5 attacks over features that you may find interesting, and they find boring.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Has anyone talked about how the D24 beast master can make a total of 5 attacks a round starting at level 11?
I would rather have intresting features rather than extra attacks. That playstyle is suited to fighter appeal more so than ranger fantasy. More powerful isn't necessarily better overall.
Especially since the new small creature flying build now works for find familiar with giant fly or vultures. Meanwhile rangers get that play taken away entirely. (Note I never played ranger that way as I saw it as too risky but that doesn't mean it should be removed or was problematic. Thats a different discussion)
That's personal preference though. Many people would prefer the 5 attacks over features that you may find interesting, and they find boring.
Here is the problem, there are (at least) two opinions Wotc could have actually serviced both creating a breath of appeal. Having the tasha stat block options and a 4th opt-IN rule for those that wanted Creature blocks. This works especially well since the new spirit block design creates an equivalent or better option invalidating the "best choice is no choice" argument . Instead they actively chose to deem one side's Fun problematic. This solution might have also really helped the druid as well as that community was also split too much for the desired satisfaction rates.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I like the 2024 ranger - its not my ideal but overall its an improvement over even Tasha's. The gaining of expertise's allows you build it the way you want while allowing a traditionalist like me to build a ranger that is every bit as good in the wilderness as a scout rogue.to me, the argument over whether hunter's mark is core to the class because 4 features are linked to it is actually nonsense. hunter's mark has always been about doing max damage to one foe for as long as possible. this hasn't changed. it and the attached features are still all about doing max damage to a single foe and nearly useless when facing many low to medium HP foes, then you need to use other concentration spells like entangle, zephyr strike or summon animals anyway and now they are all easier to take and keep as you get HM for free and it doesn't count against the spells you prepare. most of the complaints I've heard about the ranger over the last 40+ years have to do with the fact that it's not just one simple thing. It is, probably, the most complex class to play as you are constantly balancing between martial and casting choices as well as between dealing with the BBEG or their minions. The ranger has always been a gish - trying to make it purely a martial or purely a mage is useless and counter to how best to play and use its abilities. I too would like to see it get 2 expertise's early and then 2 more later. Actually, I liked the UA2 ranger better than the later one, the 2014 version or this one, but this one is the next best thing to me.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Exactly. I like it, almost love it but it is a really good Ranger that will allow me to build a character I enjoy. I'm looking forward to seeing the backgrounds and which ones will lean into the Ranger class.
Hunters mark with concentration is perfect.* IF the spell list otherwise has way less concentration spells for combat. I still hope to read that the ranger gets Con saving throws instead of Dex. That would not only help them to concentrate on spells but also to survive in the wilderness.
I am really looking forward to see the complete spell list. I hope swift quiver as one of their capstone spells loses concentration.
*hunter's mark without concentration is too strong.
Same as OP small improvement but disappointing. The problem with Ranger is it’s too easy to be OP. You can’t be the best Fighter, Rogue, and Druid wrapped up in one. It’s a fun RP but would be OP if you played it out. It was the first character I made and I think it’s a lot of fun to play from the RP side but combat is lackluster and many of the utilities in the clsss are too situational to be useful. You just have to device if you’re ok with that before going in. I don’t get the 2024 lvl 20 option of adding 1 d10 dice though. I know most campaigns don’t go that high anyway but the class really needs some attention on the later levels.
WoTC seems to be trying to push us to play high level content... basically they are trying to adopt an MMO mindset of "Endgame" being the ideal content and everything else doesn't matter beyond getting you to that level cap.
Not only are they putting carrots in the cap, though the ranger one sucks (have saw a single rumor that Hunters Mark scales it's dice number with level so if that's true then the cap is powerful), they are also moving abilities that were lower down to the higher levels as well.
The other thing WoTC is doing is trying to integrate more punishments into the classes to keep players from multi-classing.
I dont get that impression at all.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I played every edition except 4th and for a long time I felt they have no idea what to do with rangers. I didn't care for getting rid of Land’s Stride and the features you get higher level are too little too late IMHO. How many groups go past level 14?
While I can understand why the Gloom Stalker was changed I have to ask if they made it a little too weak
I have mixed feelings about making rangers prepared casters instead of known casters as I see known casters as a good concept poorly executed.. Years ago I played Rolemaster where all casters are known casters and it worked
Alright, now seeing the entirety of the new Ranger class I can say: It's fine. I'm still going to homebrew the hell out of those level 13 and 20 features though.
Relentless Hunter : Taking damage can't break your Concentration on Hunter's Mark and the damage die is a d8 rather than a d6. When a marked creature is incapacitated or has their hit points moved to 0 you can use your reaction to move the mark to another creature.
Foe Slayer: The damage of your Hunter's Mark is a d10 rather than a d8. In addition, Whenever you hit a creature affected by your Hunter's Mark you can immediately end the mark and cause that attack to deal maximum damage instead of rolling. If the attack reduces the creature to 50 hit points or fewer, it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your Spell Save DC or instantly be reduced to 0 hit points (this is just taken from Laserllama's Alt-Ranger... but it deserves to be on this new ranger).
your relentless hunter homebrew looks reasonable. I like the change on reaction rather bonus action as it makes sense after a kill. I really liked the original Foe slayer - everyone seemed to only look at the +5 damage which I grant is weak. the key there that I still think everyone missed is the +WB to hit on one attack. That is a +10 to 25% to hit the marked foe when you really need to hit it which can be huge. For a real capstone I would have made it usable on every attack not just 1. your kill them if they drop below 50 HP is really too powerful changing the original to WB to hit AND damage on each attack against the marked foe would be a real capstone. It would also provide a reason to use that L19 ASI on wisdom to make it even more effective when you get it.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Keep in mind this is a capstone ability. Dropping an opponent to 50 or below and then making them succeed on a Con save (something that creatures CR 20 and above almost always have a lot of) or drop to 0 isn't the craziest thing. However, seeing as they got rid of the Open Hand's ability to drop people to 0 it could be a design that they are trying to move away from.
Maybe have it so that, if you are to end your Hunter's Mark in this way you get max damage AND you auto crit? I mainly want the title of the feature to mean something. Foe Slayer should involve the Ranger SLAYING.
It was either this or giving each subclass abilities that play with Hunter's Mark at level 13 / 20. An example, Fey Wanderer Hunter's Marks give the affected creature disadvantage against rolls that charm or frighten them at level 13. Then at level 20 your Hunter's Mark becomes a minor version of Dominate Monster.
I've never been in favor of anything doing damage and then if they pass a threshold "one shotting" a foe - at least in part because any ruling that lets me do that also lets the foe do it to me. I had a case way back in 2E when a L10 psionic character was facing off with a Balor and one-shot it with a psychic crush. what should have been a fierce battle turned into a cake walk. Your idea of auto-crit max damage I would have no problem with.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Has anyone talked about how the D24 beast master can make a total of 5 attacks a round starting at level 11?
I've DMed for a group that had a ranger (from the last ua) and went from level 1 to level 6. And i have to say: early level ranger is pretty good and potent.
Now that i know the oficial ranger rules. I'm still happy with early game ranger. Pretty solid class 9/10 i would say.
My main problem is the level 13 and level 20 features are just terrible. What i would like to see is:
Lvl 13 - Remove Hunter's Mark Concentration.
Lvl 20 - either something else entirelly that is not related to HM OR make it a 2d6 instead of 1d10
Frank, it’s been discussed n the other big ranger thread in the general discussion.
Azktor, rangers have always been strong at lower levels (as well as high). You are right about the capstone. The concentration isn’t going away despite all the complaints about it as it’s too powerful as a continuing spell you can add others on top of. I’ve said elsewhere that what I would have preferred was making it WIsdom Bonus to both hit and damage on every attack against a marked foe. That gives you a reason to use the L19 ASI on wisdom and gaining a +10 to +25 % on each attack is a solid capstone.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Yeah ranger were strong on 2014, but the New one with free hunters Mark + Nick mastery + 2 atks on lvl 1-4 and 3 on lvl 5+ is probably one of the best early game dpr in the game.
I would not mind wisdom as both dmg and atk bônus vs hm target.. better than 1d6->1d10 casptone.
But i would love something else completely, maybe a defensive feature? A saving throw help for rangers perhaps. But we got what we have... só no reaaon to complain. I will probably homebrew the lvl 13/20 something better and less feelsbad for my players.
Maybe for L13 I wouldn’t worry too much about the capstone as you may never get there since most campaigns end somewhere between L12 and L15
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I would rather have intresting features rather than extra attacks. That playstyle is suited to fighter appeal more so than ranger fantasy. More powerful isn't necessarily better overall.
Especially since the new small creature flying build now works for find familiar with giant fly or vultures. Meanwhile rangers get that play taken away entirely. (Note I never played ranger that way as I saw it as too risky but that doesn't mean it should be removed or was problematic. Thats a different discussion)
I 100% agree. I've disliked the 5 attacks since TCoE.
That's personal preference though. Many people would prefer the 5 attacks over features that you may find interesting, and they find boring.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Here is the problem, there are (at least) two opinions Wotc could have actually serviced both creating a breath of appeal. Having the tasha stat block options and a 4th opt-IN rule for those that wanted Creature blocks. This works especially well since the new spirit block design creates an equivalent or better option invalidating the "best choice is no choice" argument . Instead they actively chose to deem one side's Fun problematic. This solution might have also really helped the druid as well as that community was also split too much for the desired satisfaction rates.