I know you said only two levels of monk but maybe consider 5-6 levels. At level 2, two Ki isn’t much to work with and your unarmed strikes are only d4. Aiel we’re good at both unarmed and spear fighting. You don’t have to think of Ki as some mystical force. It can be flavored as a more mundane resource. I had once considered making a strength based monk (not optimal I know) that was raised by apes (think Tarzanish). And Ki would be reflavored as ferocity points. Basically just think about it as you can do certain things (stunning strike, very Aiel, bonus action disengage, dodge, or dash) a set numbers of times per day. A fighter can action surge once per short rest. Nothing mystical there. It wouldn’t be any more mystical if they had a limited resource like “action points” that they used for it. Kind of like Ki.
And nothing up to level 6 is really that mystical. Extra speed, extra attack, stunning strike, deflecting missiles, etc all can be explained as their natural skill. Open hand monk would be a good subclasses. I would say Kensei too, but that’s in Xanathar’s.
Edit: I did put this as an example, following Wi1dBi11's lead.
It does use Zephyr Strike from Xanathar's, but another spell could take it's place. I tried to stay mainly in the PHB, but I did take the Piercer Feat from Tasha's. But Alert, Martial Adept, Mobile, Polearm Master are all good alternatives from the PHB.
That gives me a lot to think about, between adding Barbarian instead of Ranger or going further in Monk than I had originally planned. Well those and the fact that I have to learn the intricacies and details of 5e still. I think my first adventure will be solely with the PHB since I am not sure how it will go and I don't want to invest too heavily into it if I won't play enough. Thank you very much for the ideas/advice.
Or adding barbarian instead of monk or going straight ranger, yep lots of choices and decisions. Good luck
edit: if you haven’t yet you may want to download the DDB app. It’s a free download that gets you 8 ( I believe) character slots that can be reused by deleting older characters so you can try creating different versions and compare them. Further if your DM has other books and you are in his campaign he can share those books with you for free if he has the master subscription which is likely.
Being a fan of the Wheel Of Time I could definitely see going straight Barbarian Totem warrior to level 9 and picking Bear or Eagle for level 3 totem spirit and Wolf, Eagle, or even Tiger if you want the skill. They can all be explained non-magically for the character. The level 10 a little harder to explain a spirit animal standing there as non-magical.
You could even use an ASI or your variant human feat to pick up the unarmed fighting style, if you really want the hand to hand fighting.
And do a custom background to get stealth, which is important for the theme.
Attacks with a weapon and "weapon attacks" are not the same. The weapon categories are not explained as well as they should be. Neither are attack types and associated actions.
Would a MC Ranger/Monk be viable, i.e ranger for long range targets and monk to defend it targets manage to close in?
I think this is kind of backwards. I think the Ranger generally is a better melee character than a Monk, and a Monk if built right is going to excel at Archery.
This is an easy multiclass in terms of stats, but I don't see a lot of synergy between them. Taking Ranger levels is going to reduce your ki without giving you a whole lot in return. The best fighting styles for a Monk is unarmed combat and that is not available through Ranger.
If I am thinking about this a shadow Monk with a 4-level gloomstalker dip might be good and rather thematic. The spell slots might be useful if you can pick up silvery barbs through the Fey touched feat. Those are about the only things I can think of to make the multiclass worthwhile.
If you want non-MAD options I think cleric would work better bringing spells like shield of faith and sanctuary to the table as well as a lot more spell slots.
One synergy between the two is the crossbow expert Build wielding a heavy crossbow. the unarmed strikes are nice as a boon But also having 2 ki monk dip for emergency "step of the wind" or patient defense is nice. If you don't plan on shields Unarmored movement + Unarmored defense Can put you at a better movement and the same ac or better than most strait rangers. IF you stack with Tasha's options it gives ranger builds some nice movement.
One synergy between the two is the crossbow expert Build wielding a heavy crossbow. the unarmed strikes are nice as a boon But also having 2 ki monk dip for emergency "step of the wind" or patient defense is nice. If you don't plan on shields Unarmored movement + Unarmored defense Can put you at a better movement and the same ac or better than most strait rangers. IF you stack with Tasha's options it gives ranger builds some nice movement.
I probably wouldn't do more than a 2 dip however.
Martial Arts only works when you are wielding a Monk Weapon. A Heavy crossbow is not a monk weapon and can't be made a Monk Weapon (Longbbow can of you are a Kensai). Because it is not a Monk weapon you lose your bonus action unarmed strike, you can burn ki and use Flurry of blows to make 2 unarmed strikes but they would only do 1+strength damage.
Good catch, I forgot about that part but by using your free stow/retrieve options you can bypass the restrictions. The other option would , i think , kensai or dedicated weapon but you'll stick to light crossbow instead of the heavy one
Quick Question on this thread... What kind of Ranger would best pair with a Way of Mercy Monk? I'm, for some reason, tempted to mix in a Swarmkeeper Ranger
I think its viable it ensures you have consistently good ac and a lot of the monk subclass pair well with the ranger ones, you wont be MAD either. You should definitely have a direction going in because otherwise outside of some ac you may not feel anything helping your build, lower hit die is a loss and most rangers wont be focused on the benefits of monk unarmed strikes.
MAD means multiple ability score dependent, usually a class will have 2-3 ability scores they prefer increasing over everything else allowing them to prioritize what's best for them, for example casters using their spellcasting ability such as charisma on warlocks. For ranger it would be dexterity for damage and ac and wisdom for casting, monk also is dependent on these two stats for unarmored defense and dexterity is used for monk weapons so this synergy helps ensure your build isn't MAD. If you were to multiclass into something like ranger, paladin then you want dexterity, wisdom, charisma, and maybe strength or constitution which getting all of them to 20 is unlikely and just leads to general dissonance in your build and character. So monk ranger is more viable then some other options because you're not trying to focus on so many ability scores because monk and ranger want roughly the exact same things prioritized for most of their builds.
You're welcome! Its just something to take into account when looking at multiclassing if you're going for particular weapons or types of armor or even just a general for your character. :)
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@manselm626,
I know you said only two levels of monk but maybe consider 5-6 levels. At level 2, two Ki isn’t much to work with and your unarmed strikes are only d4. Aiel we’re good at both unarmed and spear fighting. You don’t have to think of Ki as some mystical force. It can be flavored as a more mundane resource. I had once considered making a strength based monk (not optimal I know) that was raised by apes (think Tarzanish). And Ki would be reflavored as ferocity points. Basically just think about it as you can do certain things (stunning strike, very Aiel, bonus action disengage, dodge, or dash) a set numbers of times per day. A fighter can action surge once per short rest. Nothing mystical there. It wouldn’t be any more mystical if they had a limited resource like “action points” that they used for it. Kind of like Ki.
And nothing up to level 6 is really that mystical. Extra speed, extra attack, stunning strike, deflecting missiles, etc all can be explained as their natural skill. Open hand monk would be a good subclasses. I would say Kensei too, but that’s in Xanathar’s.
Edit: I did put this as an example, following Wi1dBi11's lead.
https://ddb.ac/characters/61336213/NOtb9n
It does use Zephyr Strike from Xanathar's, but another spell could take it's place. I tried to stay mainly in the PHB, but I did take the Piercer Feat from Tasha's. But Alert, Martial Adept, Mobile, Polearm Master are all good alternatives from the PHB.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That gives me a lot to think about, between adding Barbarian instead of Ranger or going further in Monk than I had originally planned. Well those and the fact that I have to learn the intricacies and details of 5e still. I think my first adventure will be solely with the PHB since I am not sure how it will go and I don't want to invest too heavily into it if I won't play enough. Thank you very much for the ideas/advice.
Or adding barbarian instead of monk or going straight ranger, yep lots of choices and decisions. Good luck
edit: if you haven’t yet you may want to download the DDB app. It’s a free download that gets you 8 ( I believe) character slots that can be reused by deleting older characters so you can try creating different versions and compare them. Further if your DM has other books and you are in his campaign he can share those books with you for free if he has the master subscription which is likely.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Being a fan of the Wheel Of Time I could definitely see going straight Barbarian Totem warrior to level 9 and picking Bear or Eagle for level 3 totem spirit and Wolf, Eagle, or even Tiger if you want the skill. They can all be explained non-magically for the character. The level 10 a little harder to explain a spirit animal standing there as non-magical.
You could even use an ASI or your variant human feat to pick up the unarmed fighting style, if you really want the hand to hand fighting.
And do a custom background to get stealth, which is important for the theme.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Isn't hunters mark for weapon attacks. Flurry of blows is unarmed.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/951895470967672832?lang=en
Attacks with a weapon and "weapon attacks" are not the same. The weapon categories are not explained as well as they should be. Neither are attack types and associated actions.
I think this is kind of backwards. I think the Ranger generally is a better melee character than a Monk, and a Monk if built right is going to excel at Archery.
This is an easy multiclass in terms of stats, but I don't see a lot of synergy between them. Taking Ranger levels is going to reduce your ki without giving you a whole lot in return. The best fighting styles for a Monk is unarmed combat and that is not available through Ranger.
If I am thinking about this a shadow Monk with a 4-level gloomstalker dip might be good and rather thematic. The spell slots might be useful if you can pick up silvery barbs through the Fey touched feat. Those are about the only things I can think of to make the multiclass worthwhile.
If you want non-MAD options I think cleric would work better bringing spells like shield of faith and sanctuary to the table as well as a lot more spell slots.
One synergy between the two is the crossbow expert Build wielding a heavy crossbow. the unarmed strikes are nice as a boon But also having 2 ki monk dip for emergency "step of the wind" or patient defense is nice. If you don't plan on shields Unarmored movement + Unarmored defense Can put you at a better movement and the same ac or better than most strait rangers. IF you stack with Tasha's options it gives ranger builds some nice movement.
I probably wouldn't do more than a 2 dip however.
Martial Arts only works when you are wielding a Monk Weapon. A Heavy crossbow is not a monk weapon and can't be made a Monk Weapon (Longbbow can of you are a Kensai). Because it is not a Monk weapon you lose your bonus action unarmed strike, you can burn ki and use Flurry of blows to make 2 unarmed strikes but they would only do 1+strength damage.
Good catch, I forgot about that part but by using your free stow/retrieve options you can bypass the restrictions. The other option would , i think , kensai or dedicated weapon but you'll stick to light crossbow instead of the heavy one
One very important part that both rely mostly on dexterity and wisdom.
Quick Question on this thread... What kind of Ranger would best pair with a Way of Mercy Monk? I'm, for some reason, tempted to mix in a Swarmkeeper Ranger
Thank you. I confused it with Feline Agility which doubles walking speed.
Still, lots of range. :)
I think its viable it ensures you have consistently good ac and a lot of the monk subclass pair well with the ranger ones, you wont be MAD either. You should definitely have a direction going in because otherwise outside of some ac you may not feel anything helping your build, lower hit die is a loss and most rangers wont be focused on the benefits of monk unarmed strikes.
Gloomstalker Superiority
Thanks and MAD? I don't know what that means, please clarify
MAD means multiple ability score dependent, usually a class will have 2-3 ability scores they prefer increasing over everything else allowing them to prioritize what's best for them, for example casters using their spellcasting ability such as charisma on warlocks. For ranger it would be dexterity for damage and ac and wisdom for casting, monk also is dependent on these two stats for unarmored defense and dexterity is used for monk weapons so this synergy helps ensure your build isn't MAD. If you were to multiclass into something like ranger, paladin then you want dexterity, wisdom, charisma, and maybe strength or constitution which getting all of them to 20 is unlikely and just leads to general dissonance in your build and character. So monk ranger is more viable then some other options because you're not trying to focus on so many ability scores because monk and ranger want roughly the exact same things prioritized for most of their builds.
Gloomstalker Superiority
Thanks Emvse! I appreciate the information!
You're welcome! Its just something to take into account when looking at multiclassing if you're going for particular weapons or types of armor or even just a general for your character. :)
Gloomstalker Superiority