Technically, 3.5 is not the only time they've gone a half-step. I know not many people followed 4e, but they did release the Essentials kits in 2010. Essentials was 4.5 by another name. Perfectly backwards compatible with vanilla 4E, but did go around reframing all the player options similar to 3.5.
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Not to throw more gasoline on this fire (today), but for the "natural explorer = only works 3/8 of the time" argument, please keep in mind that anywhere that a skill check DC above a 10 or 12 would be like the arctic, desert, forest, mountain, swamp, or the Underdark. In terms of doing anything that uses skills like nature, survival, and perception IN THE TERRIAN. And it would have to be the harshest of conditions those terrains have to offer for there to be much need of expertise over plain proficiency. Here is a map...
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
Making them overlap this much makes me wonder why bother even picking a favored enemy then? What advantages does it have to pick one that is common if every other ranger can pick an obscure one on the off chance they run into one and just get the bonus because they chose the most common terrain type?
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
"Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability" Yes, it is possible for multiple abilities to cover the same thing. But NE reads "When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain" - knowing what animals live in an area and knowing specifics about an animal are two different things. You want to see if you recognize a plant, sure, you want to know if an animal lives in an area, sure, you want to in the city recognize something from your terrain ok. But examples that are clearly outside of the abilities of NE just don't work.
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
Making them overlap this much makes me wonder why bother even picking a favored enemy then? What advantages does it have to pick one that is common if every other ranger can pick an obscure one on the off chance they run into one and just get the bonus because they chose the most common terrain type?
A Favored Enemy doesn't have to be something that is from your favored Terrain. It can just as easily be some kind of invader from a nearby region. And it can apply in multiple terrains just like knowledge about a certain terrain or region can be applied outside of them to various degrees on various things. When it comes to your favored Enemy you know a lot about them. Favored Enemy doesn't just apply to tracking either and your over simplifying and ignoring all that it applies to. It also applies to all kinds of intelligence checks that might involve them as well. Your saying that because a few details like tracking something. Or knowing a Particular tribe in a particular region uses a different kind of material for their ammunition somehow invalidates Favored Foe and it does not. They are accompanying knowledges that build a much bigger broader picture of things that are going on. Favored Terrain might tell a ranger knowledgable in a tribe of Forest Goblins all tend to use a kind of hardened metal that somehow grows as mineral deposits in trees. But Favored Foe is going to tell you the god that they worshipped and things like the fact that they have been Exiled from a marauding band of Roving Goblinoids primarily found in the plains and mountains much farther to the west and that their God is considered an Affront to their kind by the others.
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
"Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability" Yes, it is possible for multiple abilities to cover the same thing. But NE reads "When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain" - knowing what animals live in an area and knowing specifics about an animal are two different things. You want to see if you recognize a plant, sure, you want to know if an animal lives in an area, sure, you want to in the city recognize something from your terrain ok. But examples that are clearly outside of the abilities of NE just don't work.
No. They aren't necessarily two so alien and different things that the knowledge can't overlap? what is with this all or nothing attitude with you? If it comes from the kind of area that you know well. Your going to know that it feeds on certain kinds of things in that ecosystem. That's only natural. People that Study various area's and various animals do not do that to mutual exclusion. Your also making the extremely bad assumption that the Intelligence check they were making about that Animal Wasn't a NATURE check. Which would still apply for Natural Explorer.
But the thought that a Nature Check is an Intelligence check and that by sheer basic logic that Natural Explorer knowing a Terrain and nature involving Intelligence that you would know about the animals and their Eatting habits and such when you put them together did you? That's just one of the many ways they work together that your saying it doesn't work together.
And I hate to tell you this but your outright wrong on all levels in this regard. NE DOES NOT just apply to Survival like you seem to want to force it, It specifically has no set Skill that it does apply to. It applies to ALL check's that involve that Geographical Region Type that has Proficiency that would Apply. so that INTELLIGENCE based NATURE CHECK works which is all about KNOWING about ANIMALS is applicable by RaW, By RaI, and By Logic no matter how many times that you say it doesn't and try to give excuses and point to other abilities for it to not work. Your flat out wrong when you say it doesn't apply. It does. particularly when your saying it doesn't apply to animals that come from that Area. Because if you have Nature. You know about Animals in that Area and all areas. NE only enhances this so that you know Even more about animals in your prefered areas than animals outside of it. And it works for the SAME EXACT REASON that Favored Foe would work. A Bonus to types of Checks for certain types of things based upon the choice you made for it.
I've only ever played 5e, so still kind of a newb to the D&D world.
Aside from making more money by releasing a new edition, what's the point of continuously doing so? lol Especially when 5e is as well received as is?
To give a bit of a clearer answer, each new edition brings with it the possibillity of resolving any issues that were found with the last edition that cannot be resolved by a mere variant rule or "balance patch" as it might be refered to, you can try to keep what worked and remove anything that did not. And it also means that certain systems can be incorperated from the start of the design process, instead of having to implement systems they want in the game "with ducttape and glue".
For instance some people, especially those that have played the system for a long time feel that you do not get many meaningful choices in terms of abillities once you have gotten your class and subclass for your character, a 6th edition might be designed from the ground up so that you get a major decision every level and generally get more customization, a 6th edition might decide to implement psionics-using classes and figure out how to properly distinguish them from spellcasters from the very beginning instead of adding them as an afterthought, and a 6th edition of the game might change wilderness exploration/ survival and the system therein so that it is more fun and interesting to partake in for members of every class (not just rangers) and thus make a class more focused around that kind of game pillar (such as rangers) more interesting, such a game system might try to take a more narrative approach to combat in some way.
And as much as the game has tried to be approachable and as much as it has simplified game mechanics for new players, it can still be very intimidating for new players.
For as long as the game is not perfect, the game designers will try to make new editions that are better, we do not just stop trying to improve the game once people seem pleased with it. Car manufacturers did not stop trying to make new and better car models becuase they had a product that people were happy with, no they keep itterating on the design until they have something better. Player experience can always be improved, we can always make a better and more interesting product. And for dnd you cannot just "fix" percived issues with the source by asking people to purchase new material or just erratra, at some point you have to accept that you need to make a new edition with revised rules and a new player's handbook.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
Making them overlap this much makes me wonder why bother even picking a favored enemy then? What advantages does it have to pick one that is common if every other ranger can pick an obscure one on the off chance they run into one and just get the bonus because they chose the most common terrain type?
That is the thing - they don't overlap that much, a ton of the things they talk about being NE are not NE but would require Favored Enemy Beast
Can you provide an example of what you mean by "using favored terrain on creatures or using favored enemy to provide bonus on Region based checks"?
Using favored terrain on creatures.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from.
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows.
Using Favored enemy on terrain.
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) .
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm.
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers.
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation.
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure.
example 1 poison(venom) harvesting from a creature living in the area. Desert ranger- Scorpions. underdark- Spiders. Forests- flying snake.
example two Tracking out side the terrain. A polar bear gets loose from the zoo. a artic Ranger would know its habits and be better able to predict where it would go even if he dose not have beasts for favored enemy. These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
A ranger from the forests might smell burning meat and realize its a deer because that's what is commonly cooked in the area they are from. I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
A forest ranger Might be better able to recognize an arrow from a tribe of goblins because they use clay instead of obsidian for their arrows. Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
A beast ranger would know about diets and things smells that attract creatures. Ranger Has studied cats so he also learned about catnip (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . ranger has studied deer so he knows about mint (growing locations, smells, Other uses) . Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Favored enemey Fey. would know about all plants that might be harvested to Provide protection against charm. Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Favored enemy Celestial would know about Elysiums different layers. Maybe
Favored enemy Fiends. Might know the location of silver mines for weapons and Holy water creation. I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
favored enemy elementals might be able to understand a cave structure integrity near a volcano even if he's never been in one. Why? because he's seen what a fire or stone elemental passing through rocks does to the cave structure. Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
Making them overlap this much makes me wonder why bother even picking a favored enemy then? What advantages does it have to pick one that is common if every other ranger can pick an obscure one on the off chance they run into one and just get the bonus because they chose the most common terrain type?
That is the thing - they don't overlap that much, a ton of the things they talk about being NE are not NE but would require Favored Enemy Beast
Except that they wouldn't require Favored Enemy Beast... All they would need is a Nature Check which covers Beasts Already and then a specialization in an area that such a beast comes from. But you've willfully ignored that repeatedly. Even when it is blatantly pointed out to you. Your actually factually wrong when you say it does not apply under such circumstances. Natural Explorer is not just about Terrain but also of the things that are in that Terrain such as the plants that Grow There and the Animals that naturally live there.
Making them overlap this much makes me wonder why bother even picking a favored enemy then? What advantages does it have to pick one that is common if every other ranger can pick an obscure one on the off chance they run into one and just get the bonus because they chose the most common terrain type?
Favored Terrain might tell a ranger knowledgable in a tribe of Forest Goblins all tend to use a kind of hardened metal that somehow grows as mineral deposits in trees. But Favored Foe is going to tell you the god that they worshipped and things like the fact that they have been Exiled from a marauding band of Roving Goblinoids primarily found in the plains and mountains much farther to the west and that their God is considered an Affront to their kind by the others.
Neither or your examples makes any sense. You are arguing that because you have forest as a favorite, that you a) know that a type of metal grows in tress b) that there is a type of goblin that lives in the forest, c) that you somehow know that those Goblins are USING that metal?
Sorry, but C is you making a connection that simply defies logic. Have you encountered this tribe? Have you fought them? If the answer is no then you can't say C. If the answer is yes, you have encountered them AND you studied whatever thing you are saying they use this metal for THEN you can roll to see if you recognize it as a tree-growing substance.
The problem is you are ignoring any type of causal relationship to information and instead just assuming that you HAVE that knowledge automatically. That would be like saying "I took the scholar background, therefore I speak EVERY language because there are books where they would be written." and "DM is that fact written down in a book?" - DM "uhhh probably" "than I KNOW that". - No, you don't. You have to have a logical reason as to WHY you know something. You can't just claim that EVERYTHING that happens in a forest you know about.
It is the exact same problem with your second example. You are just claiming you would know things. a) "Favored Foe is going to tell you the god that they worshipped" b) "and things like the fact that they have been Exiled from a marauding band of Roving Goblinoids primarily found in the plains and mountains much farther to the west" c) "and that their God is considered an Affront to their kind by the others"
You get a) but not fully the way you describe it. You know the deity that MOST goblins believe in, or if goblins are religious, but if the deity a particular tribe worships is NOT the one MOST goblins worship, no - you don't get to just know that. b) this is SUPER SPECIFIC to A tribe - there is 0 reason why Favored Foe would provide that level of detail. c) in other words this SPECIFIC tribe DOES worship a weird deity that most goblins don't, so unless you have had extensive interactions with that tribe, no, you don't know that they worship this other deity. The only part of that you would know is once you have LEARNED that they worship this weird deity, you would know that most goblins would find that an affront.
Natural explorer uses double proficiency and favored enemy uses advantage specifically so they can overlap.
A ranger that studies beasts and forests has double proficiency and advantage on a ton of shit.
When is your next game? I would love to play a ranger with the totally broken version of NE you use.
Yeah routinely giving a ranger both ADV and Expertise is crazy....not sure why that would be used even rarely much less on a REGULAR basis.
rangers are about as crazy as making a roll on the di20 a minimum of 10 and Granting expertise on a skill directly related to combat.(aka they work the same way as a rogue )
And whether or not you think its crazy that isn't the question. The question is is this the way the mechanics work. There is no in game justification for not allowing FT AND FE to work on the same check. I don't care who it is weather its Pro-ranger or anti-ranger.
Neither or your examples makes any sense. You are arguing that because you have forest as a favorite, that you a) know that a type of metal grows in tress b) that there is a type of goblin that lives in the forest, c) that you somehow know that those Goblins are USING that metal?
Sorry, but C is you making a connection that simply defies logic. Have you encountered this tribe? Have you fought them? If the answer is no then you can't say C. If the answer is yes, you have encountered them AND you studied whatever thing you are saying they use this metal for THEN you can roll to see if you recognize it as a tree-growing substance.
The problem is you are ignoring any type of causal relationship to information and instead just assuming that you HAVE that knowledge automatically. That would be like saying "I took the scholar background, therefore I speak EVERY language because there are books where they would be written." and "DM is that fact written down in a book?" - DM "uhhh probably" "than I KNOW that". - No, you don't. You have to have a logical reason as to WHY you know something. You can't just claim that EVERYTHING that happens in a forest you know about.
It is the exact same problem with your second example. You are just claiming you would know things. a) "Favored Foe is going to tell you the god that they worshipped" b) "and things like the fact that they have been Exiled from a marauding band of Roving Goblinoids primarily found in the plains and mountains much farther to the west" c) "and that their God is considered an Affront to their kind by the others"
You get a) but not fully the way you describe it. You know the deity that MOST goblins believe in, or if goblins are religious, but if the deity a particular tribe worships is NOT the one MOST goblins worship, no - you don't get to just know that. b) this is SUPER SPECIFIC to A tribe - there is 0 reason why Favored Foe would provide that level of detail. c) in other words this SPECIFIC tribe DOES worship a weird deity that most goblins don't, so unless you have had extensive interactions with that tribe, no, you don't know that they worship this other deity. The only part of that you would know is once you have LEARNED that they worship this weird deity, you would know that most goblins would find that an affront.
It doesn't defy logic. Your need to hate on this ability. That's what defies logic.
Religion is still an Intelligence Roll (which NE and Favored Foe can both be applied to if you have proficiency in it). which your ignoring. which if you know about Goblins because they are your favored foe. You get to know more about. Things like what I mentioned. That's what the Religion check is for. But your going to ignore that Again Clearly. Because anything to do with Checks that doesn't agree with you. That goes out the window.
You seem adamantly against most things skill based if it doesn't fit. Or against applying things to those skills when they should apply.
At this point I have to ask Why?
Is it because you don't really use the Skills except for the basic most combat oriented ones in your games, Or that you don't understand the things that different ones Cover?
Are you just unaware or unwilling to make the connections?
I'm being Serious here. What is really going on?
Because there is a lot of disconnects in your logic that goes against what the rules support that seems to be growing the deeper into this anybody goes. I mean I could make a list of the Intelligence and Wisdom Skills and what even just the books says that they cover i that's what it Takes. Are you Telling me I really need to go that Far? Because if that's what your telling me that is what I will do. Because the Cold Hard Reality is that nothing that I said in my post goes Against their related Skills. And what Natural Explore and Favored Foe do in decently large part is add on to what those skills already do.
Rogue doesn't get reliable talent until like level 14.
Your saying a ranger gets expertise+ADV at level 1....
That's a huge difference.
*11th level, point still stands mostly but there are still mundane means of gaining advantage by clever roleplaying, and for the most part you will be benefiting from either favoured enemy or favoured terrain, not both (unless the circumstances are extremely specific, tracking a favoured enemy in favoured terrain or a int-check to recall information somehow relevant to both in a non-trivial way)
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
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Technically, 3.5 is not the only time they've gone a half-step. I know not many people followed 4e, but they did release the Essentials kits in 2010. Essentials was 4.5 by another name. Perfectly backwards compatible with vanilla 4E, but did go around reframing all the player options similar to 3.5.
Good to know, but I think the timeline still supports 6e in 2024
These first two are stepping all over the toes of Favored Enemy Beast, so that's a no.
I would argue pretty much any adventurer would recognize the smell of deer
Are goblins a favored enemy? If not, then no to this too
Knowing about plants or what an animal eats isn't really about the terrain, again, this just sounds like something you need Favered Enemy Beast for
Why? There is no logical connection to make that claim
Maybe
I will grant you that they would know silver and holy water can be used on them, I am NOT gonna say you know the location of either of those things short of knowing temples would have holy water
Nope, saying they understand "cave integrity and structures" because they know that moving through stone is something an earth elemental can do is nonsense. ESPECIALLY if you tell me 'I've never actually been in a cave'
There are a lot of ways you could have a DC over 12.
Favored Enemy and Favored Foe are not necessarily mutually exclusive on everything. They are allowed to overlap in various places.
Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability, even a different ability from the same class does not just outright invalidate various examples. There are reasons they can be covered by more than one thing. Primeval awareness and Favored Foe cover some of the same things depending on your choices. It's also easy to argue that the reason that Primeval awareness works better in your chosen terrain is because of overlapping usage between the two that turns into an augmentation of one of the abilities.
Making them overlap this much makes me wonder why bother even picking a favored enemy then? What advantages does it have to pick one that is common if every other ranger can pick an obscure one on the off chance they run into one and just get the bonus because they chose the most common terrain type?
"Your insistence that things cannot work because it can also be used by a different ability"
Yes, it is possible for multiple abilities to cover the same thing. But NE reads "When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain" - knowing what animals live in an area and knowing specifics about an animal are two different things. You want to see if you recognize a plant, sure, you want to know if an animal lives in an area, sure, you want to in the city recognize something from your terrain ok. But examples that are clearly outside of the abilities of NE just don't work.
A Favored Enemy doesn't have to be something that is from your favored Terrain. It can just as easily be some kind of invader from a nearby region. And it can apply in multiple terrains just like knowledge about a certain terrain or region can be applied outside of them to various degrees on various things. When it comes to your favored Enemy you know a lot about them. Favored Enemy doesn't just apply to tracking either and your over simplifying and ignoring all that it applies to. It also applies to all kinds of intelligence checks that might involve them as well. Your saying that because a few details like tracking something. Or knowing a Particular tribe in a particular region uses a different kind of material for their ammunition somehow invalidates Favored Foe and it does not. They are accompanying knowledges that build a much bigger broader picture of things that are going on. Favored Terrain might tell a ranger knowledgable in a tribe of Forest Goblins all tend to use a kind of hardened metal that somehow grows as mineral deposits in trees. But Favored Foe is going to tell you the god that they worshipped and things like the fact that they have been Exiled from a marauding band of Roving Goblinoids primarily found in the plains and mountains much farther to the west and that their God is considered an Affront to their kind by the others.
No. They aren't necessarily two so alien and different things that the knowledge can't overlap? what is with this all or nothing attitude with you? If it comes from the kind of area that you know well. Your going to know that it feeds on certain kinds of things in that ecosystem. That's only natural. People that Study various area's and various animals do not do that to mutual exclusion. Your also making the extremely bad assumption that the Intelligence check they were making about that Animal Wasn't a NATURE check. Which would still apply for Natural Explorer.
But the thought that a Nature Check is an Intelligence check and that by sheer basic logic that Natural Explorer knowing a Terrain and nature involving Intelligence that you would know about the animals and their Eatting habits and such when you put them together did you? That's just one of the many ways they work together that your saying it doesn't work together.
And I hate to tell you this but your outright wrong on all levels in this regard. NE DOES NOT just apply to Survival like you seem to want to force it, It specifically has no set Skill that it does apply to. It applies to ALL check's that involve that Geographical Region Type that has Proficiency that would Apply. so that INTELLIGENCE based NATURE CHECK works which is all about KNOWING about ANIMALS is applicable by RaW, By RaI, and By Logic no matter how many times that you say it doesn't and try to give excuses and point to other abilities for it to not work. Your flat out wrong when you say it doesn't apply. It does. particularly when your saying it doesn't apply to animals that come from that Area. Because if you have Nature. You know about Animals in that Area and all areas. NE only enhances this so that you know Even more about animals in your prefered areas than animals outside of it. And it works for the SAME EXACT REASON that Favored Foe would work. A Bonus to types of Checks for certain types of things based upon the choice you made for it.
Natural explorer uses double proficiency and favored enemy uses advantage specifically so they can overlap.
A ranger that studies beasts and forests has double proficiency and advantage on a ton of shit.
To give a bit of a clearer answer, each new edition brings with it the possibillity of resolving any issues that were found with the last edition that cannot be resolved by a mere variant rule or "balance patch" as it might be refered to, you can try to keep what worked and remove anything that did not. And it also means that certain systems can be incorperated from the start of the design process, instead of having to implement systems they want in the game "with ducttape and glue".
For instance some people, especially those that have played the system for a long time feel that you do not get many meaningful choices in terms of abillities once you have gotten your class and subclass for your character, a 6th edition might be designed from the ground up so that you get a major decision every level and generally get more customization, a 6th edition might decide to implement psionics-using classes and figure out how to properly distinguish them from spellcasters from the very beginning instead of adding them as an afterthought, and a 6th edition of the game might change wilderness exploration/ survival and the system therein so that it is more fun and interesting to partake in for members of every class (not just rangers) and thus make a class more focused around that kind of game pillar (such as rangers) more interesting, such a game system might try to take a more narrative approach to combat in some way.
And as much as the game has tried to be approachable and as much as it has simplified game mechanics for new players, it can still be very intimidating for new players.
For as long as the game is not perfect, the game designers will try to make new editions that are better, we do not just stop trying to improve the game once people seem pleased with it. Car manufacturers did not stop trying to make new and better car models becuase they had a product that people were happy with, no they keep itterating on the design until they have something better. Player experience can always be improved, we can always make a better and more interesting product. And for dnd you cannot just "fix" percived issues with the source by asking people to purchase new material or just erratra, at some point you have to accept that you need to make a new edition with revised rules and a new player's handbook.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
That is the thing - they don't overlap that much, a ton of the things they talk about being NE are not NE but would require Favored Enemy Beast
Except that they wouldn't require Favored Enemy Beast... All they would need is a Nature Check which covers Beasts Already and then a specialization in an area that such a beast comes from. But you've willfully ignored that repeatedly. Even when it is blatantly pointed out to you. Your actually factually wrong when you say it does not apply under such circumstances. Natural Explorer is not just about Terrain but also of the things that are in that Terrain such as the plants that Grow There and the Animals that naturally live there.
Neither or your examples makes any sense. You are arguing that because you have forest as a favorite, that you a) know that a type of metal grows in tress b) that there is a type of goblin that lives in the forest, c) that you somehow know that those Goblins are USING that metal?
Sorry, but C is you making a connection that simply defies logic. Have you encountered this tribe? Have you fought them? If the answer is no then you can't say C. If the answer is yes, you have encountered them AND you studied whatever thing you are saying they use this metal for THEN you can roll to see if you recognize it as a tree-growing substance.
The problem is you are ignoring any type of causal relationship to information and instead just assuming that you HAVE that knowledge automatically. That would be like saying "I took the scholar background, therefore I speak EVERY language because there are books where they would be written." and "DM is that fact written down in a book?" - DM "uhhh probably" "than I KNOW that". - No, you don't. You have to have a logical reason as to WHY you know something. You can't just claim that EVERYTHING that happens in a forest you know about.
It is the exact same problem with your second example. You are just claiming you would know things. a) "Favored Foe is going to tell you the god that they worshipped" b) "and things like the fact that they have been Exiled from a marauding band of Roving Goblinoids primarily found in the plains and mountains much farther to the west" c) "and that their God is considered an Affront to their kind by the others"
You get a) but not fully the way you describe it. You know the deity that MOST goblins believe in, or if goblins are religious, but if the deity a particular tribe worships is NOT the one MOST goblins worship, no - you don't get to just know that. b) this is SUPER SPECIFIC to A tribe - there is 0 reason why Favored Foe would provide that level of detail. c) in other words this SPECIFIC tribe DOES worship a weird deity that most goblins don't, so unless you have had extensive interactions with that tribe, no, you don't know that they worship this other deity. The only part of that you would know is once you have LEARNED that they worship this weird deity, you would know that most goblins would find that an affront.
When is your next game? I would love to play a ranger with the totally broken version of NE you use.
Yeah routinely giving a ranger both ADV and Expertise is crazy....not sure why that would be used even rarely much less on a REGULAR basis.
rangers are about as crazy as making a roll on the di20 a minimum of 10 and Granting expertise on a skill directly related to combat.(aka they work the same way as a rogue )
And whether or not you think its crazy that isn't the question. The question is is this the way the mechanics work. There is no in game justification for not allowing FT AND FE to work on the same check. I don't care who it is weather its Pro-ranger or anti-ranger.
Nahhh....
Rogue doesn't get reliable talent until like level 14.
Your saying a ranger gets expertise+ADV at level 1....
That's a huge difference.
It doesn't defy logic. Your need to hate on this ability. That's what defies logic.
Religion is still an Intelligence Roll (which NE and Favored Foe can both be applied to if you have proficiency in it). which your ignoring. which if you know about Goblins because they are your favored foe. You get to know more about. Things like what I mentioned. That's what the Religion check is for. But your going to ignore that Again Clearly. Because anything to do with Checks that doesn't agree with you. That goes out the window.
You seem adamantly against most things skill based if it doesn't fit. Or against applying things to those skills when they should apply.
At this point I have to ask Why?
Is it because you don't really use the Skills except for the basic most combat oriented ones in your games, Or that you don't understand the things that different ones Cover?
Are you just unaware or unwilling to make the connections?
I'm being Serious here. What is really going on?
Because there is a lot of disconnects in your logic that goes against what the rules support that seems to be growing the deeper into this anybody goes. I mean I could make a list of the Intelligence and Wisdom Skills and what even just the books says that they cover i that's what it Takes. Are you Telling me I really need to go that Far? Because if that's what your telling me that is what I will do. Because the Cold Hard Reality is that nothing that I said in my post goes Against their related Skills. And what Natural Explore and Favored Foe do in decently large part is add on to what those skills already do.
*11th level, point still stands mostly but there are still mundane means of gaining advantage by clever roleplaying, and for the most part you will be benefiting from either favoured enemy or favoured terrain, not both (unless the circumstances are extremely specific, tracking a favoured enemy in favoured terrain or a int-check to recall information somehow relevant to both in a non-trivial way)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes