In my first campaign and playing here on the site, and I've got a few wacky weapons already despite being relatively low level. My character is a level 4 Thief Rogue, and I'm pretty kitted out in terms of options for attacking, I've got a Shortbow, a Rapier, two daggers, a Dagger of Venom, two shortswords, and a Shortsword +1. I've got 18 DEX, so I'm working with +6 or +7 to hit most of the time.
I'm noticing that my bard and ranger friends tend to do ok with their spells or other options, whereas if I miss a sneak attack I'm somewhat screwed, so I've been opting for using the Shortsword +1 and a regular one in my off hand to get two chances to sneak attack. I figured this was the most damage I could be doing, as the Dagger of Venom, while also a +7 to hit, is somewhat of a one-trick pony and limited by its damage die. (I'm also pretty sure that my fast hands don't let me activate the dagger, which is slightly bull I but I get it).
Should I start transitioning to using the rapier and Disengaging granted by the cunning action instead of going for two hits? I know I'll have to use my cunning action more once I reach level 5 and I feel like a poor man's fighter most of the time going for the second chance to hit. Our campaign is pretty loose on some of the rules (we're not playing a grid or caring too much about encumbrance, I'm sure you can tell [I also love it for our first campaign, but I digress]), but I just want to make sure I'm focusing on the right things.
I've seen a good thread here about damage for the rogue overall but wasn't sure where the +1 weapons fell into the discussion. Any help here would be great, thanks.
Given that weapon set, assuming you want melee, I'd go with the +1 shortsword regardless. +1 to hit and damage is +1 to hit and damage, and some things are resistant to non-magical damage...
Whether to use a second weapon or do cunning action alternatives (hide, dash, disengage, etc) depends on how you fight and what you want --- it's kinda DPS-vs-utility (as a thief, that utility may win out). But if you choose a second weapon attack, I'd go with the other magic weapon, for all the same reasons as above.
It's worth keeping in mind that even when it comes to two-weapon fighting your character doesn't actually have an "off-hand" unless you want them to, so if you want them to be an ambidextrous fighter you can choose each turn whether the shortsword or the dagger is your main weapon for the attack action, while the other one is the secondary weapon for the followup attack if you need one (missed with the main attack).
But in general I'd go with that sword and dagger; as it means you've always got the possibility of dealing the extra poison against targets that you think might be susceptible to it. While the +1 is nice, the extra damage and poisoned condition could make a big difference in the right circumstances. Even once the venom has been used, the dagger is still magical so will ignore resistances on some creatures.
Also the difference in damage between a shortsword and dagger is negligible when what you're really trying to do is deliver your sneak attack damage; I tend to take daggers on my Rogues for thematic reasons (or because you can argue they're easier to conceal), but of course if you have a magic shortsword then you use the magic shortsword, and I definitely favour two-weapon fighting over the trap of focusing on a rapier that a lot of people fall into (it can work, but you're all-or-nothing, I prefer the option of a redo). But otherwise in general you're talking an average difference of 1 damage; and what's an extra 1 damage to someone who can roll an extra 3d6 or more? 😄
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
In my first campaign and playing here on the site, and I've got a few wacky weapons already despite being relatively low level. My character is a level 4 Thief Rogue, and I'm pretty kitted out in terms of options for attacking, I've got a Shortbow, a Rapier, two daggers, a Dagger of Venom, two shortswords, and a Shortsword +1. I've got 18 DEX, so I'm working with +6 or +7 to hit most of the time.
I'm noticing that my bard and ranger friends tend to do ok with their spells or other options, whereas if I miss a sneak attack I'm somewhat screwed, so I've been opting for using the Shortsword +1 and a regular one in my off hand to get two chances to sneak attack. I figured this was the most damage I could be doing, as the Dagger of Venom, while also a +7 to hit, is somewhat of a one-trick pony and limited by its damage die. (I'm also pretty sure that my fast hands don't let me activate the dagger, which is slightly bull I but I get it).
Should I start transitioning to using the rapier and Disengaging granted by the cunning action instead of going for two hits? I know I'll have to use my cunning action more once I reach level 5 and I feel like a poor man's fighter most of the time going for the second chance to hit. Our campaign is pretty loose on some of the rules (we're not playing a grid or caring too much about encumbrance, I'm sure you can tell [I also love it for our first campaign, but I digress]), but I just want to make sure I'm focusing on the right things.
I've seen a good thread here about damage for the rogue overall but wasn't sure where the +1 weapons fell into the discussion. Any help here would be great, thanks.
If you want to lean into your Thief abilities - which are infamously difficult to do something productive with - the first thing to get a clear answer on is the limits of it. There are DMs on this forum who somehow treat improvised weapon attacks as the Use an Object Action, not the Attack Action. What matters here is your DM's opinion. Get a clear idea how your Thief ability interacts with these:
Note that no matter what, everyone gets two Use an Objects already - one for "free" and one from their Action - so what you get is a third use (or a second with your Action free to e.g. Attack), so that's what you need to engage in for your Thief abilities to shine.
Level 5 is when you get Uncanny Dodge, which doesn't really rely on Cunning Action more than the class features you already have do. Level 9 is where your Cunning Action will be more important - your L9 ability will matter much more often if you're BA Hiding all the damn time (which will usually mean you're relying on your Shortbow, although you can certainly throw daggers).
Note that no matter what, everyone gets two Use an Objects already - one for "free" and one from their Action - so what you get is a third use (or a second with your Action free to e.g. Attack), so that's what you need to engage in for your Thief abilities to shine.
While the general advice on the items is sound, this part may be a bit misleading. [Tooltip Not Found] is a full action, not a free action. Your free object interaction is for stuff like opening a door as part of your movement, drawing your weapon and so-on.
Something like a throw definitely isn't intended for the free object interaction; caltrops (bag of 20), ball bearings (bag of 1,000) or similar you could possibly get away with as a free object interaction if you already have them readied (i.e- in a hand, bag open ready to be tipped onto the ground).
So it may be more accurate to say as a thief can take two full object actions, or two and a very simple one. But keep in mind that you only usually have two hands and need your free object interaction to retrieve an item (and that's assuming you have it somewhere handy, like a utility belt or bandolier or such).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Note that no matter what, everyone gets two Use an Objects already - one for "free" and one from their Action - so what you get is a third use (or a second with your Action free to e.g. Attack), so that's what you need to engage in for your Thief abilities to shine.
While the general advice on the items is sound, this part may be a bit misleading. Use an Object is a full action, not a free action. Your free object interaction is for stuff like opening a door as part of your movement, drawing your weapon and so-on.
No, they are the same.
Something like a throw definitely isn't intended for the free object interaction; caltrops (bag of 20), ball bearings (bag of 1,000) or similar you could possibly get away with as a free object interaction if you already have them readied (i.e- in a hand, bag open ready to be tipped onto the ground).
Yes, there's no question you can use your "free" action to unload such a bag. If your bag is stowed, then you need to perform two Use an Object actions: one to ready and one to drop. In such a case, you use your free and your action - you can't do it with just your action.
So it may be more accurate to say as a thief can take two full object actions, or two and a very simple one. But keep in mind that you only usually have two hands and need your free object interaction to retrieve an item (and that's assuming you have it somewhere handy, like a utility belt or bandolier or such).
In an effort to be clear to OP, OP, what a normal person can do is:
Round 1: Draw bag of balls, then attack with weapon.
Round 2: Drop balls, attack with weapon.
Or, on any round, draw a bag of balls and drop the balls.
What you can do, as a Thief, is draw a bag of balls, drop balls, and attack with a weapon - sustainably, every turn.
Ask your DM if you can apply a Bag of 250 Ball Bearings to a 5-foot square.
Thanks for the advice everyone, this is all really helpful. Replying to this because I started the game with a bag of ball bearings, and I waited until several sessions to use it, and everyone flipped out that I had been sneaking around with this bag the whole time they had no idea I was carrying. It was one of the best moments of the campaign. All of which to say, yeah, we've covered the ball bearings. Thanks for reminding me about the other flasks to check out
Note that no matter what, everyone gets two Use an Objects already - one for "free" and one from their Action - so what you get is a third use (or a second with your Action free to e.g. Attack), so that's what you need to engage in for your Thief abilities to shine.
While the general advice on the items is sound, this part may be a bit misleading. Use an Object is a full action, not a free action. Your free object interaction is for stuff like opening a door as part of your movement, drawing your weapon and so-on.
No, they are the same.
They are not the Same. One is Use an Object. One is interact with an Object.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
This is the free one. and it's pretty particular. it is for very basic things. Anything that is more complicated such as caltrops and the like are Use an Object which is a full action and it's more in depth.
You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.
This one is important because it's more indepth usage. And this covers things like Caltrops and Ball Bearings which state they take an action to use. Which means they are not free. At best a thief subclass can use them as a bonus action.
(caltrops) As an action, you can spread a bag of caltrops to cover a square area that is 5 feet on a side. Any creature that enters the area must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or stop moving this turn and take 1 piercing damage. Taking this damage reduces the creature's walking speed by 10 feet until the creature regains at least 1 hit point. A creature moving through the area at half speed doesn't need to make the save.
(bag of ball bearings) As an action, you can spill these tiny metal balls from their pouch to cover a level, square area that is 10 feet on a side. A creature moving across the covered area must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or fall prone. A creature moving through the area at half speed doesn't need to make the save.
These are distinctly different and do not funciton with the interact with an object free action as stated in both the interact with an object paragraph above and the use an Object Paragraph below it. They are not the same thing and do not allow for the same usages.
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Hiya,
In my first campaign and playing here on the site, and I've got a few wacky weapons already despite being relatively low level. My character is a level 4 Thief Rogue, and I'm pretty kitted out in terms of options for attacking, I've got a Shortbow, a Rapier, two daggers, a Dagger of Venom, two shortswords, and a Shortsword +1. I've got 18 DEX, so I'm working with +6 or +7 to hit most of the time.
I'm noticing that my bard and ranger friends tend to do ok with their spells or other options, whereas if I miss a sneak attack I'm somewhat screwed, so I've been opting for using the Shortsword +1 and a regular one in my off hand to get two chances to sneak attack. I figured this was the most damage I could be doing, as the Dagger of Venom, while also a +7 to hit, is somewhat of a one-trick pony and limited by its damage die. (I'm also pretty sure that my fast hands don't let me activate the dagger, which is slightly bull I but I get it).
Should I start transitioning to using the rapier and Disengaging granted by the cunning action instead of going for two hits? I know I'll have to use my cunning action more once I reach level 5 and I feel like a poor man's fighter most of the time going for the second chance to hit. Our campaign is pretty loose on some of the rules (we're not playing a grid or caring too much about encumbrance, I'm sure you can tell [I also love it for our first campaign, but I digress]), but I just want to make sure I'm focusing on the right things.
I've seen a good thread here about damage for the rogue overall but wasn't sure where the +1 weapons fell into the discussion. Any help here would be great, thanks.
Given that weapon set, assuming you want melee, I'd go with the +1 shortsword regardless. +1 to hit and damage is +1 to hit and damage, and some things are resistant to non-magical damage...
Whether to use a second weapon or do cunning action alternatives (hide, dash, disengage, etc) depends on how you fight and what you want --- it's kinda DPS-vs-utility (as a thief, that utility may win out). But if you choose a second weapon attack, I'd go with the other magic weapon, for all the same reasons as above.
I tend to agree with Kenclary; use the shortsword, +1 and the Dagger of Venom.
It's worth keeping in mind that even when it comes to two-weapon fighting your character doesn't actually have an "off-hand" unless you want them to, so if you want them to be an ambidextrous fighter you can choose each turn whether the shortsword or the dagger is your main weapon for the attack action, while the other one is the secondary weapon for the followup attack if you need one (missed with the main attack).
But in general I'd go with that sword and dagger; as it means you've always got the possibility of dealing the extra poison against targets that you think might be susceptible to it. While the +1 is nice, the extra damage and poisoned condition could make a big difference in the right circumstances. Even once the venom has been used, the dagger is still magical so will ignore resistances on some creatures.
Also the difference in damage between a shortsword and dagger is negligible when what you're really trying to do is deliver your sneak attack damage; I tend to take daggers on my Rogues for thematic reasons (or because you can argue they're easier to conceal), but of course if you have a magic shortsword then you use the magic shortsword, and I definitely favour two-weapon fighting over the trap of focusing on a rapier that a lot of people fall into (it can work, but you're all-or-nothing, I prefer the option of a redo). But otherwise in general you're talking an average difference of 1 damage; and what's an extra 1 damage to someone who can roll an extra 3d6 or more? 😄
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
If you want to lean into your Thief abilities - which are infamously difficult to do something productive with - the first thing to get a clear answer on is the limits of it. There are DMs on this forum who somehow treat improvised weapon attacks as the Use an Object Action, not the Attack Action. What matters here is your DM's opinion. Get a clear idea how your Thief ability interacts with these:
Regardless of nuanced rulings, you should become familiar with these items, which unquestionably work with your Thief ability:
Note that no matter what, everyone gets two Use an Objects already - one for "free" and one from their Action - so what you get is a third use (or a second with your Action free to e.g. Attack), so that's what you need to engage in for your Thief abilities to shine.
Level 5 is when you get Uncanny Dodge, which doesn't really rely on Cunning Action more than the class features you already have do. Level 9 is where your Cunning Action will be more important - your L9 ability will matter much more often if you're BA Hiding all the damn time (which will usually mean you're relying on your Shortbow, although you can certainly throw daggers).
While the general advice on the items is sound, this part may be a bit misleading. [Tooltip Not Found] is a full action, not a free action. Your free object interaction is for stuff like opening a door as part of your movement, drawing your weapon and so-on.
Something like a throw definitely isn't intended for the free object interaction; caltrops (bag of 20), ball bearings (bag of 1,000) or similar you could possibly get away with as a free object interaction if you already have them readied (i.e- in a hand, bag open ready to be tipped onto the ground).
So it may be more accurate to say as a thief can take two full object actions, or two and a very simple one. But keep in mind that you only usually have two hands and need your free object interaction to retrieve an item (and that's assuming you have it somewhere handy, like a utility belt or bandolier or such).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
No, they are the same.
Yes, there's no question you can use your "free" action to unload such a bag. If your bag is stowed, then you need to perform two Use an Object actions: one to ready and one to drop. In such a case, you use your free and your action - you can't do it with just your action.
In an effort to be clear to OP, OP, what a normal person can do is:
Or, on any round, draw a bag of balls and drop the balls.
What you can do, as a Thief, is draw a bag of balls, drop balls, and attack with a weapon - sustainably, every turn.
Thanks for the advice everyone, this is all really helpful. Replying to this because I started the game with a bag of ball bearings, and I waited until several sessions to use it, and everyone flipped out that I had been sneaking around with this bag the whole time they had no idea I was carrying. It was one of the best moments of the campaign. All of which to say, yeah, we've covered the ball bearings. Thanks for reminding me about the other flasks to check out
They are not the Same. One is Use an Object. One is interact with an Object.
This is the free one. and it's pretty particular. it is for very basic things. Anything that is more complicated such as caltrops and the like are Use an Object which is a full action and it's more in depth.
This one is important because it's more indepth usage. And this covers things like Caltrops and Ball Bearings which state they take an action to use. Which means they are not free. At best a thief subclass can use them as a bonus action.
These are distinctly different and do not funciton with the interact with an object free action as stated in both the interact with an object paragraph above and the use an Object Paragraph below it. They are not the same thing and do not allow for the same usages.