I have recently looked at the Thief Rogue, and... it feels off. The level 3 abilities are fine, Supreme Sneak is nice, but then we've got Use Magic Device and "Thief's" Reflexes (I have since been convinced on Thief's Reflexes and we do not need to look at that one). Keep in mind I'm looking at this from a flavor/thematic standpoint, not how useful the abilities are.
Why do thief's have an ability to use any magic item they come across? How does this fit into being a thief? How is it that you have "learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you" when an Arcane Trickster, or even a Wizard for that matter, can't even do this? Through previous discussions, user sfPanzer mentioned "Because they come across a lot more magic items than others, and mishandling them could end up disastrous." While this is a good point I just feel like it's still quite a random ability to suddenly get if your character hasn't come across a lot of magic items. It would make a lot more sense to me if the ability was focused around magical traps somehow, but then I feel like this sort of approach would step on the toes of the Dungeon Delver feat.
Don't get me wrong, this ability is cool, it just does not feel like it fits the idea of Thief, keep in mind, this is just my opinion.
* This post has undergone some changes due to recent discussion, all I am looking for now is a good replacement for Use Magic Device as I do not feel it fits the idea of a Thief very well. *
As a tabletop rule I would go with any ability they as a character has used a lot during their play. Or they pick up a new skill from a party member they have worked with the longest and closest.
If they have solved a bunch of puzzles give them a bonus to that or finding traps or climbing really anything. Hunting down criminals, bail jumpers or escaped prisoners? Finding long lost items?
Maybe you could custom add it to their proficiency list. Or give a bonus or even and advantage.
OHH I would give an advantage first. Its still random, then a bonus(it happens all the time) instead of an advantage and then an extra proficiency instead of a bonus.
I was actually thinking about this recently; being able to use any magic item is actually a pretty good feature, but yeah it can be a strange one to justify if your campaign hasn't had the Thief actually encountering many magic items.
Personally I'm a fan of building on existing features, and the Thief's only combat feature is really Fast Hands prior to Thief's Reflexes (which is way too late for most campaigns). I was thinking something like being able to take two reactions in a turn, possibly alongside allowing Evasion to apply to Strength and Intelligence saving throws? The idea is it's giving you progression to thief's reflexes, making you more slippery than the average Rogue.
Otherwise if you want to lean fully into thievery maybe some kind of redirection ability; like forcing an enemy to make a save or turn to face a distraction, and causing them to forget where you were on a success? So kind of like a pseudo invisibility? But it could be exploitable in combat to hide (or more likely re-hide) more easily, or to setup flank and unseen attacker attacks if your DM accounts for the new facing?
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
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I have recently looked at the Thief Rogue, and... it feels off. The level 3 abilities are fine, Supreme Sneak is nice, but then we've got Use Magic Device and "Thief's" Reflexes (I have since been convinced on Thief's Reflexes and we do not need to look at that one). Keep in mind I'm looking at this from a flavor/thematic standpoint, not how useful the abilities are.
Why do thief's have an ability to use any magic item they come across? How does this fit into being a thief? How is it that you have "learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you" when an Arcane Trickster, or even a Wizard for that matter, can't even do this? Through previous discussions, user sfPanzer mentioned "Because they come across a lot more magic items than others, and mishandling them could end up disastrous." While this is a good point I just feel like it's still quite a random ability to suddenly get if your character hasn't come across a lot of magic items. It would make a lot more sense to me if the ability was focused around magical traps somehow, but then I feel like this sort of approach would step on the toes of the Dungeon Delver feat.
Don't get me wrong, this ability is cool, it just does not feel like it fits the idea of Thief, keep in mind, this is just my opinion.
* This post has undergone some changes due to recent discussion, all I am looking for now is a good replacement for Use Magic Device as I do not feel it fits the idea of a Thief very well. *
As a tabletop rule I would go with any ability they as a character has used a lot during their play. Or they pick up a new skill from a party member they have worked with the longest and closest.
If they have solved a bunch of puzzles give them a bonus to that or finding traps or climbing really anything. Hunting down criminals, bail jumpers or escaped prisoners? Finding long lost items?
Maybe you could custom add it to their proficiency list. Or give a bonus or even and advantage.
OHH I would give an advantage first. Its still random, then a bonus(it happens all the time) instead of an advantage and then an extra proficiency instead of a bonus.
I was actually thinking about this recently; being able to use any magic item is actually a pretty good feature, but yeah it can be a strange one to justify if your campaign hasn't had the Thief actually encountering many magic items.
Personally I'm a fan of building on existing features, and the Thief's only combat feature is really Fast Hands prior to Thief's Reflexes (which is way too late for most campaigns). I was thinking something like being able to take two reactions in a turn, possibly alongside allowing Evasion to apply to Strength and Intelligence saving throws? The idea is it's giving you progression to thief's reflexes, making you more slippery than the average Rogue.
Otherwise if you want to lean fully into thievery maybe some kind of redirection ability; like forcing an enemy to make a save or turn to face a distraction, and causing them to forget where you were on a success? So kind of like a pseudo invisibility? But it could be exploitable in combat to hide (or more likely re-hide) more easily, or to setup flank and unseen attacker attacks if your DM accounts for the new facing?
Just some ideas anyway.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.