I recently started out a new campaign with a Level 3 Wood Elf Arcane Trickster, and am trying to do some long term planning for the character. The RP concept I have in mind is a socially awkward, bookish, street urchin orphan who sets out adventuring to learn more about and avenge her parents' assassination. I took a custom background which is a mix and match between Urchin and Sage. Combat style is ranged with a light crossbow, with daggers as a backup. Early on I see using magic as a utility for regular rogue-y stuff, but later I see the character becoming a sort of walking ghost figure, magically messing with people's minds in strategic ways (closest comp is I think River Tam from Firefly). Social interaction will be left to the Lore Bard in the party.
I am thinking that taking some Wizard levels will help achieve the flavor I want, providing a bit more spell choice and spell slots, since the AT magic progression is a bit slow for my taste. I'm looking for some advice from more experienced players on things like how many levels of Wizard, when to take Wizard levels, order of ASIs/feats, spell selection, etc. A key thing I should mention is that this is a PHB-only campaign, so you don't need to tell me I should have taken Booming Blade, and sadly Bladesinger is out, too. The other party members are the aforementioned Lore Bard, a Barbarian (Wolf Totem), and a Chainlock (Fiend Patron).
Here is where the character sits now, after racial modifiers and some pretty sweet stat rolls:
I'm thinking that ultimately the way to go might be AT 11 / Divination Wizard 9, taking Wizard levels (I think) at Levels 4, 11-14, and 17-20 (the later part is probably academic, since I very much doubt this campaign will get into very high levels, but it's fun to think about it anyway). This gives access to a nice set of utility spells early while keeping up the sneak attack progression until Magical Ambush, at which point she may start to transition to a control role. Here's what I'm thinking for each level.
L19 (Div Wizard 8): ASI/Feat: Either +2 WIS or +2 CON or Alert or Lucky Learn two more L4 spells (maybe Confusion and Dimension Door)
L20 (Div Wizard 9): Learn two L5 spells (Dream and Seeming seem thematic)
I don't necessarily want to make the character more powerful if the flavor cost is too high, but I'd love to know what folks think of this build in general, whether you'd recommend different sequencing, a different balance of the two classes, different spell choices, ASI feat selection/ordering, etc. Thanks!
If you want a wizard subclass, you'll want 2 levels right away. Also, if you do plan on getting to 20, a 12/10 split between Rogue and Wizard is probably the best split. That way you get 6 ASI along the way. 4 from Rogue and 2 from Wizard. Also, level 10 in Wizard gets another class feature.
I'm doing something similar, but with Bladesinger and AT. Divination is still awesome though I have one at level 11, and forcing a fail is a great crowd control feature. And it's the best front loaded wizard class. All the other ones tend to get better at higher levels.
Thanks! So you would recommend getting Portent at level 5 at the expense of delaying the acquisition of 2nd level spells, magical ambush, and the first two ASIs by a level each? I would be getting six extra levels of use out of Portent in the mean time (and I started out with a leg up on my DEX score), so I could definitely see it.
Do you mean 12/8 split? That'd be a trade of 5th level spells and a level's worth of spell slots for an extra ASI. The third Arcane Tradition feature is at level 10, reachable with 10/10 but at the expense of Reliable Talent (and still only 5 ASIs). That doesn't seem worth it to me (not in Divination, with a race that already has Darkvision, and the option of permanent blindsight at AT 13, at least). Of course the decision about what to do with those last two levels is very far off if it comes at all.
Any opinion on the choice/ordering of ASIs/Feats? I'm forgoing Crossbow Expert in this plan which could be really useful if taken early, since it is my weapon of choice, but if the plan is to lean heavily on spells later on, maxing INT, and getting CON saving throw proficiency seem important. It's hard for me to say how often I'll feel like attacking with my bonus action is a better option than hiding (or some other Cunning Action).
If you don't mind missing out on the 6th ASI, then 11/9 split is probably better for you. Go rogue to 4 first to get your first ASI before you dip into Wizard. To keep up with ASI of single class friends, it's worth going in 4 level chunks. If you'd rather have class abilities first, then Do 4 rogue, 2 wizard, and then level up as you want.
And with Rogue, your bonus actions are much better left to rogue stuff than an extra attack. You never have to worry about attacking at disadvantage due to range because of disengage as a bonus action. And with Wood Elf's 35 speed, you can keep your distance fairly well.
Thanks, much appreciated! So actually, I misspoke: because of the rounding down rule for multiclass spell slots, 12/8 gives the same number of slots as 11/9 (effective caster level is 12 in both cases). It would just be those two 5th level spells I'd be giving up (and, I guess, theoretically the ability to transcribe other 5th level spells I find lying around). That's probably a worthwhile trade to make in the highly theoretical world in which this character advances to level 20.
The immediate decision is: at L4, would I rather get an ASI/feat, or would I rather get Ritual Casting, Arcane Recovery, and a bevy of L0 and L1 spells? That +2 DEX is reallly useful for a Rogue, but given that I already have a DEX of 18 (which I feel a little guilty about; nobody else in the party has a +4 for any ability yet), and given all the goodies that come with that first Wizard level, I might rather go with the spells. I'd probably go back and get the ASI at L5, though.
Then, I'm on the fence about Portent at L6 at the cost of a delay in 2nd level spells, Magical Ambush, and one less Sneak Attack on alternating levels until I would otherwise have taken Wizard 2, but you're probably right that Portent is such a powerful feature that an extra five or six levels of using it is worth all of that. Delaying Uncanny Dodge is much less of a loss when I have Shield available.
I would recommend the spell Shadow Blade as a spell. It takes the form of a simple melee weapon you are proficient with, and deals 2d8 damage on a hit. It's finesse, light, and thrown. Be aware, however- it is concentration, and while it does last a minute, if you drop it or throw it, it dissipates, requiring you to use a bonus action to make it reappear, which could interfere with Cunning Action and other bonus action goodies. The best thing about Shadow Blade however, is that because it is an attack, it is usable for Sneak Attack, and since you are a level 11 AT, that would mean 2d8+6d6+Prof bonus psychic damage- something very little enemies are resistant to, (and this is at 2nd level, because you can increase it from 2d8 to 3d8 using a 3rd-4th level spell slot) plus it's an illusion spell, so that would mean you could use your AT slots instead of your Wizard slots. Also, it only costs a bonus action to create- but all of this would be for a damage spell, so I don't know if you would really want it for a Utility build.
Yup, shadow blade is great! I've been playing this character now for close to a year, and a lot of things have changed since I wrote this post. I ended up going bladesinger instead of diviner, and focusing on melee instead of range. I took shadow blade as soon as I got 2nd level spells (which was at character level 6: AT 3 / BS 3), and it's been my go-to spell since. We just hit level 11 --- I'm AT 5 / BS 6 --- and am using a 3rd level slot for an upcast shadow blade nearly every combat. The downside is that unless we get a round to prepare, I have to decide between starting bladesong and casting shadow blade for my first bonus action, which means either charging into melee with lowish AC or getting mediocre damage on my first turn. But even so, it's been a great character.
My personal thought (if you know you're going to likely get to 20) for an arcane trickster and wizard combo is to go 4 levels of Rogue (Arcane Trickster and an ASI) then 16 Wizard (Pick any school you like best (illusion and War Mage fit pretty solidly RP wise), The character starts out on the streets and gradually gets more and more into the book learning and practice.
That split allows for 9th level spell slots and 8th level spells learned on level (and with a very very nice GM you could even potentially find scrolls to copy 9th level spells, as there's a bit of a grey area in the multi class system where MC wizards are concerned for learning higher level spells.
Also, important to note for this character, is it has the potential to be a really amazing dungeon hunter anti trap character. It has Arcane training, Investigation and Perception, and can (thanks to Arcane Trickster) use it's thieves tools at a distance. So mundane and arcane traps are no problem to disarm as long as you can get your compatriots not to run forward and mess with things. This of course is slightly situational depending on your GM and game setting.
If you're not Adventurer's League compliant you can go for cantrips like Booming blade and green flame blade, to go along side your shadow blade spell.
And one final thought on the wizard spell book, if you flavor yourself as an archer and you have a kind GM who likes the RP idea, there is no reason you couldn't specially craft your spell-book notes into wraps on a bow you hold. Nothing like a functional spell book (the varied types of descriptions listed for them in examples opens the door for this RP wise). Then you could have a spell-book and bow in one hand leaving the other free to the ammunition or spell components/focus, and if someone closes in with you, use a cantrip like shocking grasp (Even better if the thing that closed in on you has a lot of metal) to not suffer the disadvantage for melee with ranged. Or use your cunning action to disengage and get back to ranged.
Sure this looses out on some HP and some rogue things like the evasion and Uncanny dodge, but the ability to get up to 8th level spells (RAW) or 9th (GM dependent) probably make up for that a little bit. Greater invisibility and other such handy spells can help you maintain your roguish charm.
Sleep is still useful - a 3rd level party could expect to fight 6 goblins. Sleep would take out 3 of those ( on average). However, it's less useful against solo boss encounters. A Displacer Beast would not be affected by anything less than a 8th level sleep!
Old thread, but similar character build ... actually, the story I have going is a former illusionist (level 5) was petrified for several decades and left behind by former party. New group accidently finds a statue that fits the description of the illusionist and applies an elixir of stone to flesh ... but the restored illusionist is without spell book and frankly out of practice ... now an arcane trickster using the few spells she had memorized (no need of spell books), but starting only at level 3, but *without* the rogue class armor and weapon proficiencies -- however with the other tricks of the rogues, since as an illusionist from AD&D days she was really a glorified thief using the then "unlock" cantrip (which no longer exists).
She'll focus again on relearning the ways of witchcraft / illusion. So my question really is (maybe I missed this) but the arcane tricksters don't have spell books, but the wizards/witches do ... can of course start a new book, but in doing so I'm assuming I have to segregate rogue AT spells memorized / learned from wizarding spells memorized / learned? Is that essentially correct? Second, being new to 5e, in the old system you could collect tons of spells through scrolls and other "borrowed" books (I mentioned she was always a bit loose with things like laws, possessions, ownership, etc), I'm assuming that new learned spells still occur at levels and there is still some mechanism for % to learn spells? I just liked the old system where when the martial classes could get excited by a new magic item, the spell casters were pleased to come into possession of a spell book ... and I'd play that they could only learn spells of the appropriate level, with everything else being too complex.
If you're multiclassed, then the spells you know from one class are separate from those you know from another, right. And although your spell slots are pooled, and so as, say, an AT 7, Illusionist 3 or something, you will have the spell slots of a 5th level wizard (3 + 7/3 rounded down), you can't learn 3rd level spells yet, because both AT 7 and Illusionist 3 are limited to 1st and 2nd level spells (AT 7 will know five spells of 1st and 2nd level, Illusionist 3 will have at least 8 1st level spells and 10 spells total between 1st and 2nd level in their book from level-up picks, plus any additional 1st and level spells they've transcribed from scrolls or other books they've found during adventuring). After each long rest, you can prepare 3 + INT mod spells out of the 10+ in your book, whereas the 5 AT spells are always prepared.
As a wizard you can add spells to your book as long as they're of a level that you could prepare as a wizard --- so in the example above, 1st or 2nd level spells --- by spending 50 gp + 2 hrs downtime per level of the spell, though if it's a scroll rather than a book, then you need to make an Arcana check of DC 10 + spell level to successfully "reverse compile" the spell back to its "source code". But either way those don't affect your AT spells known.
That said, if your DM allows scroll crafting during down time, you can make scrolls of your AT spells, and then use those scrolls to transcribe the spells into your spell book. That way, as you level up in AT, you can, if you want, swap out AT spells that you've added to your book for new ones, and increase the number of spells you have access to that way.
Thank you for the quick and through reply ... this will totally help me create and shape my spellcaster.
AT 3 / WZ:Ill 1 will be the next step. I'm assuming early in the progression she'd have:
Slots: 1 (WZ:Ill) + 3/3 (AT) = 2, therefore the ability to cast 3 first level spells which is what I would have had at 4 (AT) anyhow. No problem there ...
But Level 5 (finally getting her back to good old days at level 5, but with more HP):
2 (WZ:Ill) + 3/3 (AT) = 3 --> 4 @ 1, 2 @ 3 total
-vs-
1 (WZ:Ill) + 4/3 (AT) = 2 --> same as before then, no new spell slots (obviously more learned spells and other abilities)
I was looking at the multi-class table. I'm not worried about maximizing the character -- the story will really drive how she grows over time. My current plan is to relearn invisibility, which she had before. And her step back was in part related to the party needing a rogue and having a warlock more interested in bar fights and drinking contests. (What can I say, it will be an incredibly entertaining campaign!)
Exactly right. What you point out about 3/2 vs 4/1 having the same spell slots is a frustrating feature of multiclassing part-casters -- for some reason the single class tables for AT, Paladin, Ranger, etc. round *up*, whereas as soon as you have two classes with spellcasting, you round down. The designers modified this when they released Artificer, which rounds up when multiclassing. Shrug.
You posted this 4 years ago and I find myself following in your footsteps. I have made a Bladesong Arcane Trickster and I'm loving the character. Going in to combat with an AC of 19 is pretty fun. In fact going in to actual combat as a Wizard and not being useless at it is pretty fun.
I'm at W2/R3 and I'm debating where to go with my next level up. If I go W3 then I can open up 2ndL spells and that would be useful. However if I go R4 then I will get a stat boost and I've a couple of stats on odd numbers that will also make a difference. I'm on 17 Dex and 13 Wis and they influence many skill checks as well as saves and a potential +1 to AC.
Honestly I think that depends on your table and how far down the road the level progression will get. If the campaign isn't going to go into epic levels or to 20 etc, then a bit more rogue will likely help with the skill checks and the like more. But if 20 is a possibility some day, you need all the rest in wizard to get to 9th spells. Just as food for thought.
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I recently started out a new campaign with a Level 3 Wood Elf Arcane Trickster, and am trying to do some long term planning for the character. The RP concept I have in mind is a socially awkward, bookish, street urchin orphan who sets out adventuring to learn more about and avenge her parents' assassination. I took a custom background which is a mix and match between Urchin and Sage. Combat style is ranged with a light crossbow, with daggers as a backup. Early on I see using magic as a utility for regular rogue-y stuff, but later I see the character becoming a sort of walking ghost figure, magically messing with people's minds in strategic ways (closest comp is I think River Tam from Firefly). Social interaction will be left to the Lore Bard in the party.
I am thinking that taking some Wizard levels will help achieve the flavor I want, providing a bit more spell choice and spell slots, since the AT magic progression is a bit slow for my taste. I'm looking for some advice from more experienced players on things like how many levels of Wizard, when to take Wizard levels, order of ASIs/feats, spell selection, etc. A key thing I should mention is that this is a PHB-only campaign, so you don't need to tell me I should have taken Booming Blade, and sadly Bladesinger is out, too. The other party members are the aforementioned Lore Bard, a Barbarian (Wolf Totem), and a Chainlock (Fiend Patron).
Here is where the character sits now, after racial modifiers and some pretty sweet stat rolls:
Stats
Skills:
Spells:
I'm thinking that ultimately the way to go might be AT 11 / Divination Wizard 9, taking Wizard levels (I think) at Levels 4, 11-14, and 17-20 (the later part is probably academic, since I very much doubt this campaign will get into very high levels, but it's fun to think about it anyway). This gives access to a nice set of utility spells early while keeping up the sneak attack progression until Magical Ambush, at which point she may start to transition to a control role. Here's what I'm thinking for each level.
Levels 4-7:
Levels 8-11:
Levels 12-15:
Levels 16-20:
I don't necessarily want to make the character more powerful if the flavor cost is too high, but I'd love to know what folks think of this build in general, whether you'd recommend different sequencing, a different balance of the two classes, different spell choices, ASI feat selection/ordering, etc. Thanks!
"Darvin" | Changeling | Hexblade 1 / Swords Bard 6 | Descent Into Avernus (AC 19; PP 14; 52/52 HP)
Anton Chergoba | Human | Battlemaster 4 | Lost Mines of Phandelver (AC 20; PP 14; 36/36 HP)
If you want a wizard subclass, you'll want 2 levels right away. Also, if you do plan on getting to 20, a 12/10 split between Rogue and Wizard is probably the best split. That way you get 6 ASI along the way. 4 from Rogue and 2 from Wizard. Also, level 10 in Wizard gets another class feature.
I'm doing something similar, but with Bladesinger and AT. Divination is still awesome though I have one at level 11, and forcing a fail is a great crowd control feature. And it's the best front loaded wizard class. All the other ones tend to get better at higher levels.
Thanks! So you would recommend getting Portent at level 5 at the expense of delaying the acquisition of 2nd level spells, magical ambush, and the first two ASIs by a level each? I would be getting six extra levels of use out of Portent in the mean time (and I started out with a leg up on my DEX score), so I could definitely see it.
Do you mean 12/8 split? That'd be a trade of 5th level spells and a level's worth of spell slots for an extra ASI. The third Arcane Tradition feature is at level 10, reachable with 10/10 but at the expense of Reliable Talent (and still only 5 ASIs). That doesn't seem worth it to me (not in Divination, with a race that already has Darkvision, and the option of permanent blindsight at AT 13, at least). Of course the decision about what to do with those last two levels is very far off if it comes at all.
Any opinion on the choice/ordering of ASIs/Feats? I'm forgoing Crossbow Expert in this plan which could be really useful if taken early, since it is my weapon of choice, but if the plan is to lean heavily on spells later on, maxing INT, and getting CON saving throw proficiency seem important. It's hard for me to say how often I'll feel like attacking with my bonus action is a better option than hiding (or some other Cunning Action).
"Darvin" | Changeling | Hexblade 1 / Swords Bard 6 | Descent Into Avernus (AC 19; PP 14; 52/52 HP)
Anton Chergoba | Human | Battlemaster 4 | Lost Mines of Phandelver (AC 20; PP 14; 36/36 HP)
Yes. Sorry, 12/8 split, so no level 10 wizard.
If you don't mind missing out on the 6th ASI, then 11/9 split is probably better for you. Go rogue to 4 first to get your first ASI before you dip into Wizard. To keep up with ASI of single class friends, it's worth going in 4 level chunks. If you'd rather have class abilities first, then Do 4 rogue, 2 wizard, and then level up as you want.
And with Rogue, your bonus actions are much better left to rogue stuff than an extra attack. You never have to worry about attacking at disadvantage due to range because of disengage as a bonus action. And with Wood Elf's 35 speed, you can keep your distance fairly well.
Thanks, much appreciated! So actually, I misspoke: because of the rounding down rule for multiclass spell slots, 12/8 gives the same number of slots as 11/9 (effective caster level is 12 in both cases). It would just be those two 5th level spells I'd be giving up (and, I guess, theoretically the ability to transcribe other 5th level spells I find lying around). That's probably a worthwhile trade to make in the highly theoretical world in which this character advances to level 20.
The immediate decision is: at L4, would I rather get an ASI/feat, or would I rather get Ritual Casting, Arcane Recovery, and a bevy of L0 and L1 spells? That +2 DEX is reallly useful for a Rogue, but given that I already have a DEX of 18 (which I feel a little guilty about; nobody else in the party has a +4 for any ability yet), and given all the goodies that come with that first Wizard level, I might rather go with the spells. I'd probably go back and get the ASI at L5, though.
Then, I'm on the fence about Portent at L6 at the cost of a delay in 2nd level spells, Magical Ambush, and one less Sneak Attack on alternating levels until I would otherwise have taken Wizard 2, but you're probably right that Portent is such a powerful feature that an extra five or six levels of using it is worth all of that. Delaying Uncanny Dodge is much less of a loss when I have Shield available.
"Darvin" | Changeling | Hexblade 1 / Swords Bard 6 | Descent Into Avernus (AC 19; PP 14; 52/52 HP)
Anton Chergoba | Human | Battlemaster 4 | Lost Mines of Phandelver (AC 20; PP 14; 36/36 HP)
I would recommend the spell Shadow Blade as a spell. It takes the form of a simple melee weapon you are proficient with, and deals 2d8 damage on a hit. It's finesse, light, and thrown. Be aware, however- it is concentration, and while it does last a minute, if you drop it or throw it, it dissipates, requiring you to use a bonus action to make it reappear, which could interfere with Cunning Action and other bonus action goodies. The best thing about Shadow Blade however, is that because it is an attack, it is usable for Sneak Attack, and since you are a level 11 AT, that would mean 2d8+6d6+Prof bonus psychic damage- something very little enemies are resistant to, (and this is at 2nd level, because you can increase it from 2d8 to 3d8 using a 3rd-4th level spell slot) plus it's an illusion spell, so that would mean you could use your AT slots instead of your Wizard slots. Also, it only costs a bonus action to create- but all of this would be for a damage spell, so I don't know if you would really want it for a Utility build.
Yup, shadow blade is great! I've been playing this character now for close to a year, and a lot of things have changed since I wrote this post. I ended up going bladesinger instead of diviner, and focusing on melee instead of range. I took shadow blade as soon as I got 2nd level spells (which was at character level 6: AT 3 / BS 3), and it's been my go-to spell since. We just hit level 11 --- I'm AT 5 / BS 6 --- and am using a 3rd level slot for an upcast shadow blade nearly every combat. The downside is that unless we get a round to prepare, I have to decide between starting bladesong and casting shadow blade for my first bonus action, which means either charging into melee with lowish AC or getting mediocre damage on my first turn. But even so, it's been a great character.
"Darvin" | Changeling | Hexblade 1 / Swords Bard 6 | Descent Into Avernus (AC 19; PP 14; 52/52 HP)
Anton Chergoba | Human | Battlemaster 4 | Lost Mines of Phandelver (AC 20; PP 14; 36/36 HP)
I like this combination.
My personal thought (if you know you're going to likely get to 20) for an arcane trickster and wizard combo is to go 4 levels of Rogue (Arcane Trickster and an ASI) then 16 Wizard (Pick any school you like best (illusion and War Mage fit pretty solidly RP wise), The character starts out on the streets and gradually gets more and more into the book learning and practice.
That split allows for 9th level spell slots and 8th level spells learned on level (and with a very very nice GM you could even potentially find scrolls to copy 9th level spells, as there's a bit of a grey area in the multi class system where MC wizards are concerned for learning higher level spells.
Also, important to note for this character, is it has the potential to be a really amazing dungeon hunter anti trap character. It has Arcane training, Investigation and Perception, and can (thanks to Arcane Trickster) use it's thieves tools at a distance. So mundane and arcane traps are no problem to disarm as long as you can get your compatriots not to run forward and mess with things. This of course is slightly situational depending on your GM and game setting.
If you're not Adventurer's League compliant you can go for cantrips like Booming blade and green flame blade, to go along side your shadow blade spell.
And one final thought on the wizard spell book, if you flavor yourself as an archer and you have a kind GM who likes the RP idea, there is no reason you couldn't specially craft your spell-book notes into wraps on a bow you hold. Nothing like a functional spell book (the varied types of descriptions listed for them in examples opens the door for this RP wise). Then you could have a spell-book and bow in one hand leaving the other free to the ammunition or spell components/focus, and if someone closes in with you, use a cantrip like shocking grasp (Even better if the thing that closed in on you has a lot of metal) to not suffer the disadvantage for melee with ranged. Or use your cunning action to disengage and get back to ranged.
Sure this looses out on some HP and some rogue things like the evasion and Uncanny dodge, but the ability to get up to 8th level spells (RAW) or 9th (GM dependent) probably make up for that a little bit. Greater invisibility and other such handy spells can help you maintain your roguish charm.
Interesting idea about the spell book. Why would a character need the book open during combat?
I think it depends on how the individual table sees the RP form of the spell casting and material or arcane focus interaction.
Sleep is still useful - a 3rd level party could expect to fight 6 goblins. Sleep would take out 3 of those ( on average). However, it's less useful against solo boss encounters. A Displacer Beast would not be affected by anything less than a 8th level sleep!
Old thread, but similar character build ... actually, the story I have going is a former illusionist (level 5) was petrified for several decades and left behind by former party. New group accidently finds a statue that fits the description of the illusionist and applies an elixir of stone to flesh ... but the restored illusionist is without spell book and frankly out of practice ... now an arcane trickster using the few spells she had memorized (no need of spell books), but starting only at level 3, but *without* the rogue class armor and weapon proficiencies -- however with the other tricks of the rogues, since as an illusionist from AD&D days she was really a glorified thief using the then "unlock" cantrip (which no longer exists).
She'll focus again on relearning the ways of witchcraft / illusion. So my question really is (maybe I missed this) but the arcane tricksters don't have spell books, but the wizards/witches do ... can of course start a new book, but in doing so I'm assuming I have to segregate rogue AT spells memorized / learned from wizarding spells memorized / learned? Is that essentially correct? Second, being new to 5e, in the old system you could collect tons of spells through scrolls and other "borrowed" books (I mentioned she was always a bit loose with things like laws, possessions, ownership, etc), I'm assuming that new learned spells still occur at levels and there is still some mechanism for % to learn spells? I just liked the old system where when the martial classes could get excited by a new magic item, the spell casters were pleased to come into possession of a spell book ... and I'd play that they could only learn spells of the appropriate level, with everything else being too complex.
If you're multiclassed, then the spells you know from one class are separate from those you know from another, right. And although your spell slots are pooled, and so as, say, an AT 7, Illusionist 3 or something, you will have the spell slots of a 5th level wizard (3 + 7/3 rounded down), you can't learn 3rd level spells yet, because both AT 7 and Illusionist 3 are limited to 1st and 2nd level spells (AT 7 will know five spells of 1st and 2nd level, Illusionist 3 will have at least 8 1st level spells and 10 spells total between 1st and 2nd level in their book from level-up picks, plus any additional 1st and level spells they've transcribed from scrolls or other books they've found during adventuring). After each long rest, you can prepare 3 + INT mod spells out of the 10+ in your book, whereas the 5 AT spells are always prepared.
As a wizard you can add spells to your book as long as they're of a level that you could prepare as a wizard --- so in the example above, 1st or 2nd level spells --- by spending 50 gp + 2 hrs downtime per level of the spell, though if it's a scroll rather than a book, then you need to make an Arcana check of DC 10 + spell level to successfully "reverse compile" the spell back to its "source code". But either way those don't affect your AT spells known.
That said, if your DM allows scroll crafting during down time, you can make scrolls of your AT spells, and then use those scrolls to transcribe the spells into your spell book. That way, as you level up in AT, you can, if you want, swap out AT spells that you've added to your book for new ones, and increase the number of spells you have access to that way.
"Darvin" | Changeling | Hexblade 1 / Swords Bard 6 | Descent Into Avernus (AC 19; PP 14; 52/52 HP)
Anton Chergoba | Human | Battlemaster 4 | Lost Mines of Phandelver (AC 20; PP 14; 36/36 HP)
Thank you for the quick and through reply ... this will totally help me create and shape my spellcaster.
AT 3 / WZ:Ill 1 will be the next step. I'm assuming early in the progression she'd have:
Slots: 1 (WZ:Ill) + 3/3 (AT) = 2, therefore the ability to cast 3 first level spells which is what I would have had at 4 (AT) anyhow. No problem there ...
But Level 5 (finally getting her back to good old days at level 5, but with more HP):
2 (WZ:Ill) + 3/3 (AT) = 3 --> 4 @ 1, 2 @ 3 total
-vs-
1 (WZ:Ill) + 4/3 (AT) = 2 --> same as before then, no new spell slots (obviously more learned spells and other abilities)
I was looking at the multi-class table. I'm not worried about maximizing the character -- the story will really drive how she grows over time. My current plan is to relearn invisibility, which she had before. And her step back was in part related to the party needing a rogue and having a warlock more interested in bar fights and drinking contests. (What can I say, it will be an incredibly entertaining campaign!)
Exactly right. What you point out about 3/2 vs 4/1 having the same spell slots is a frustrating feature of multiclassing part-casters -- for some reason the single class tables for AT, Paladin, Ranger, etc. round *up*, whereas as soon as you have two classes with spellcasting, you round down. The designers modified this when they released Artificer, which rounds up when multiclassing. Shrug.
"Darvin" | Changeling | Hexblade 1 / Swords Bard 6 | Descent Into Avernus (AC 19; PP 14; 52/52 HP)
Anton Chergoba | Human | Battlemaster 4 | Lost Mines of Phandelver (AC 20; PP 14; 36/36 HP)
Great and thanks! There is always the option to load up on scrolls ... expensive, but could also be widely fun. :)
-M
You posted this 4 years ago and I find myself following in your footsteps. I have made a Bladesong Arcane Trickster and I'm loving the character. Going in to combat with an AC of 19 is pretty fun. In fact going in to actual combat as a Wizard and not being useless at it is pretty fun.
I'm at W2/R3 and I'm debating where to go with my next level up. If I go W3 then I can open up 2ndL spells and that would be useful. However if I go R4 then I will get a stat boost and I've a couple of stats on odd numbers that will also make a difference. I'm on 17 Dex and 13 Wis and they influence many skill checks as well as saves and a potential +1 to AC.
I keep swapping between Stats and Spells.
Any advice?
Honestly I think that depends on your table and how far down the road the level progression will get. If the campaign isn't going to go into epic levels or to 20 etc, then a bit more rogue will likely help with the skill checks and the like more. But if 20 is a possibility some day, you need all the rest in wizard to get to 9th spells. Just as food for thought.