Hopefully you can help clear things up because ive read other forums, threads and youtube videos and I keep getting different interpretations.
Ive got a level 2 Rogue under the new 2024 rules, with 2 weapon fighting you use your attack with a light weapon and you get to attack again as your bonus action with a different light weapon. However with the new "Nick" weapon mastery "you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action", the use of the word instead gives me the impression that you only get two attacks but people have said you get three attacks because now your bonus action is free for the 2 weapon fighting bonus attack. I thought this was a bit OP for a level 2 rouge as I thought rogues get more attacks at higher levels but reading though the new 2024 rules now im not sure.
How many attacks do rogues get and do they get any extra attacks later on?
What are your interpretations? any help/clarification is appreciated.
Rogues do not normally get the Extra Attack Class Feature.
What the Nick Weapon Mastery feature does is allow the Second Attack that would normally be a Bonus Action from wielding two Light Weapons to be used during the Attack Action.
The published wording of the Dual Wielder General Feat includes the ability Enhanced Dual Wielding:
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
This allows a character with the feat (Prerequisites, Level 4+, STR or DEX 13+) and two Light Weapons, with Nick Mastery on at least one of them, to do the following:
Action:
Attack with Light Weapon #1.
Attack with Light Weapon #2, that has the Nick Property, and under normal circumstances, do not add Ability Modifier to Damage rolled.
Either of the above two attacks meet the qualifications to trigger Enhanced Dual Wielding.
Bonus Action.
Thanks to Enhanced Dual Wielding, attack with the Light Weapon that was not used to trigger the ability. Again under normal circumstances, do not add the Ability Modifier to Damage Rolled.
Under normal circumstances, the best a single-classed Level 2 Rogue would do is get two attacks, from wielding two light Weapons, and using the Nick mastery to allow their Bonus Action for something other than attacking.
notovny sums it up pretty well. Level 2 Rogue could make 2 attacks and still have a Bonus Action available for something else, but the extra attack of the Light property, with Nick Mastery is otherwise limited to 1/turn.
If later you gain access to other Bonus Action such as Martial Art feature, Dual Wielder feat, or a Scimitar of Speed for example, then you will be able to attack with said Bonus Action.
One of the best interactions this opens up is that if you use a Vex weapon in one hand and a Nick weapon in the other, the first attack with the Vex weapon will grant you advantage on the second attack if the first one hits. This means that so as long as you hit with the first attack, your second attack will be able to add sneak attack even if you had no other way of triggering it that turn. For rogues, the best Vex/Nick pairings are probably either shortsword/scimitar, or shortsword/dagger. I personally like the dagger better for thematic reasons (it feels very rogue-ish), but the scimitar does 1 damage more per hit on average (1d6 from the scimitar vs 1d4 from the dagger).
Yeah, rogues do not get extra attacks without dipping into multiclassing or duel wielding. To make up for this they have the Sneak attack which if you roll well enough can enough damage to leave a foe bloody or even dead in one round.
Yeah, rogues do not get extra attacks without dipping into multiclassing or duel wielding. To make up for this they have the Sneak attack which if you roll well enough can enough damage to leave a foe bloody or even dead in one round.
This also makes critical hits for Rogues awesome because all of the dice are doubled. A level 20 rogue using a shortsword and casting True Strike rolls 28d6 on a critical hit. Really feels nice to borrow every d6 at the table to roll your critical hits!
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Hopefully you can help clear things up because ive read other forums, threads and youtube videos and I keep getting different interpretations.
Ive got a level 2 Rogue under the new 2024 rules, with 2 weapon fighting you use your attack with a light weapon and you get to attack again as your bonus action with a different light weapon. However with the new "Nick" weapon mastery "you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action", the use of the word instead gives me the impression that you only get two attacks but people have said you get three attacks because now your bonus action is free for the 2 weapon fighting bonus attack. I thought this was a bit OP for a level 2 rouge as I thought rogues get more attacks at higher levels but reading though the new 2024 rules now im not sure.
How many attacks do rogues get and do they get any extra attacks later on?
What are your interpretations? any help/clarification is appreciated.
Rogues do not normally get the Extra Attack Class Feature.
What the Nick Weapon Mastery feature does is allow the Second Attack that would normally be a Bonus Action from wielding two Light Weapons to be used during the Attack Action.
The published wording of the Dual Wielder General Feat includes the ability Enhanced Dual Wielding:
This allows a character with the feat (Prerequisites, Level 4+, STR or DEX 13+) and two Light Weapons, with Nick Mastery on at least one of them, to do the following:
Action:
Bonus Action.
Under normal circumstances, the best a single-classed Level 2 Rogue would do is get two attacks, from wielding two light Weapons, and using the Nick mastery to allow their Bonus Action for something other than attacking.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
notovny sums it up pretty well. Level 2 Rogue could make 2 attacks and still have a Bonus Action available for something else, but the extra attack of the Light property, with Nick Mastery is otherwise limited to 1/turn.
If later you gain access to other Bonus Action such as Martial Art feature, Dual Wielder feat, or a Scimitar of Speed for example, then you will be able to attack with said Bonus Action.
One of the best interactions this opens up is that if you use a Vex weapon in one hand and a Nick weapon in the other, the first attack with the Vex weapon will grant you advantage on the second attack if the first one hits. This means that so as long as you hit with the first attack, your second attack will be able to add sneak attack even if you had no other way of triggering it that turn. For rogues, the best Vex/Nick pairings are probably either shortsword/scimitar, or shortsword/dagger. I personally like the dagger better for thematic reasons (it feels very rogue-ish), but the scimitar does 1 damage more per hit on average (1d6 from the scimitar vs 1d4 from the dagger).
Also, when you make the extra attack of ght Light property with a Dagger, it can be a ranged attack since it has the Thrown property.
Yeah, rogues do not get extra attacks without dipping into multiclassing or duel wielding. To make up for this they have the Sneak attack which if you roll well enough can enough damage to leave a foe bloody or even dead in one round.
This also makes critical hits for Rogues awesome because all of the dice are doubled. A level 20 rogue using a shortsword and casting True Strike rolls 28d6 on a critical hit. Really feels nice to borrow every d6 at the table to roll your critical hits!