I noticed nobody ever posts builds for a Multi-classed Eldritch Knight/Swashbuckler.
Level 4 Eldritch Knight means I get Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade as cantrips and Shield as a level 1 spell. Cool. I also get Booming Blade.
At level 20 with 20 DEX this would mean a rapier would do 1d8 + 5 + 3d8(Booming Blade) + 8d6 (Sneak Attack) damage. If the target willingly moves before my next turn he takes another 4d8. Correct? And that with AC 19 (AC 24 with Shield Spell).
So with 22 DEX and the Flame Tongue Rapier I can do 1d8 + 8 + 3d8 + 8d6 + 2d6 damage. 4d8 + 10d6 + 8 damage on my attack seems pretty good. And AC 23 (AC 28 with Shield Spell). (Studded Leather +1, Cloak of Protection, Shield +1)
This actually is a legitimately powerful build, but truly shines with proper party synergy. Taking anywhere from 3-7 fighter levels and then the rest in swashbuckler is a good bet.
Stick to only 3 or 4 levels of fighter if you want to be really using your booming blade or green flame blade, since they take up your entire action and so the extra attack doesn't actually do anything for you. Going for 5-7 means you will be much more fighter than rogue, but means that you can attack as a bonus action with the cantrip, which also means you are more likely to be triggering sneak attacks.
Booming Blade is the superior cantrip under certain circumstances, which are either someone is doing some sort of fear build, or someone has dissonant whispers. These both cause the enemy to "willingly" move away from you, which means opportunity attacks. Combine this with warcaster, and remember that you attacking outside your turn resets your sneak attack damage.
Swashbuckler makes it possible to deal sneak attack damage without needing advantage on the rolls. As long as nobody but the enemy is 5ft from you, you get sneak attack. It also has good abilities that go with it. Assassin is a good choice as well.
Where does Swashbuckler come into this build? It seems like all you needed was two cantrips, a level 1 spell, and Sneak Attack.
This is actually a really good question to ask, what about taking the however many fighter levels makes you want to take it over just taking magic initiate as a feat? You can even have green flame blade scale off of charisma and grab hex as a spell from the warlock list.
Swashbuckler brings a lot to the table. Dodge, Dash, or Hide actions as a bonus action for one, that is actually very strong. Swashbuckler gets Fancy Footwork which allows you to move away from a creature you attack without requiring anything out of your action economy, and if you make a melee attack then you can move away without provoking an attack of opportunity. The swashbuckler archetype takes Sneak Attack and adds a twist to it, it allows you to 1v1 a target while still being able to deal Sneak Attack damage.
If you get the EK to level 5, you can bonus action call your bound daggers, then throw them both with your two attacks. This can be handy for a strength-based Rogue MC.
Why not forgo the shield spell (1 round duration) and take Mage Armor (8 hrs). Mage armor is legal with a shield.
Add in 1 feat and you have nigh god-like AC on 1 attack for each round
At 20 Dex (by lvl 12 or 4 fighter/ 8 rogue) AC with mage armor plus non-magical shield is 20 (25 with defensive duelist per 1 attack each round)
Defensive DuelistPHB, pg. 165
When you are wielding a finesse weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add 5 to your AC for that attack.
Why not forgo the shield spell (1 round duration) and take Mage Armor (8 hrs). Mage armor is legal with a shield.
Add in 1 feat and you have nigh god-like AC on 1 attack for each round
At 20 Dex (by lvl 12 or 4 fighter/ 8 rogue) AC with mage armor plus non-magical shield is 20 (25 with defensive duelist per 1 attack each round)
Defensive DuelistPHB, pg. 165
When you are wielding a finesse weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add 5 to your AC for that attack.
Defensive Duelist: 1 Reaction
Because as an EK, if you start with Fighter as your starting class you can wear Plate, use a Shield, and then use Rapier. Why waste a spell on Mage Armor when you can cast in Heavy Armor? So there is AC 20 without dipping into Dex at all. Only need a 13 Dex to make the build work, can use Str instead to hit with a Finesse weapon and still sneak attack.
Why not forgo the shield spell (1 round duration) and take Mage Armor (8 hrs). Mage armor is legal with a shield.
Add in 1 feat and you have nigh god-like AC on 1 attack for each round
At 20 Dex (by lvl 12 or 4 fighter/ 8 rogue) AC with mage armor plus non-magical shield is 20 (25 with defensive duelist per 1 attack each round)
Defensive DuelistPHB, pg. 165
When you are wielding a finesse weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add 5 to your AC for that attack.
Defensive Duelist: 1 Reaction
Because as an EK, if you start with Fighter as your starting class you can wear Plate, use a Shield, and then use Rapier. Why waste a spell on Mage Armor when you can cast in Heavy Armor? So there is AC 20 without dipping into Dex at all. Only need a 13 Dex to make the build work, can use Str instead to hit with a Finesse weapon and still sneak attack.
Because studded Leather with 20 Dex is only 1 less AC than Plate, and it doesn't give disadvantage on stealth (and Rogues normally do care about stealth, although with 13 Dex, I guess you won't). And it costs 1455 less gold to buy Studded Leather than it does to buy Plate. Heck, if you use the Defensive Fighting Style (which makes sense to use, because none of the other Fighting Styles are useful to an EK/Swashbuckler multiclass), Studded Leather gives the same AC as Mage Armor.
So yeah, choosing Mage Armor is pretty stupid, but going with Plate Armor isn't that big of a bonus over Studded Leather.
As others have mentioned, there are otherways to get the cantrip. If you start as variant Human grab a feat, or if you are high elf or variant half high elf you can grab one cantrip...
Defensive duelist competes with Uncanny dodge, so I don't like it so much.
I do like feats that give you a chance to attack during the bad guys turn, as you can use sneak attack again:
Mage Slayer and Sentinel are good (marital adept is not...) as they let you get that extra attack with sneak attack damage.
Why not forgo the shield spell (1 round duration) and take Mage Armor (8 hrs). Mage armor is legal with a shield.
Add in 1 feat and you have nigh god-like AC on 1 attack for each round
At 20 Dex (by lvl 12 or 4 fighter/ 8 rogue) AC with mage armor plus non-magical shield is 20 (25 with defensive duelist per 1 attack each round)
Defensive DuelistPHB, pg. 165
When you are wielding a finesse weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add 5 to your AC for that attack.
Defensive Duelist: 1 Reaction
Because as an EK, if you start with Fighter as your starting class you can wear Plate, use a Shield, and then use Rapier. Why waste a spell on Mage Armor when you can cast in Heavy Armor? So there is AC 20 without dipping into Dex at all. Only need a 13 Dex to make the build work, can use Str instead to hit with a Finesse weapon and still sneak attack.
Because studded Leather with 20 Dex is only 1 less AC than Plate, and it doesn't give disadvantage on stealth (and Rogues normally do care about stealth, although with 13 Dex, I guess you won't). And it costs 1455 less gold to buy Studded Leather than it does to buy Plate. Heck, if you use the Defensive Fighting Style (which makes sense to use, because none of the other Fighting Styles are useful to an EK/Swashbuckler multiclass), Studded Leather gives the same AC as Mage Armor.
So yeah, choosing Mage Armor is pretty stupid, but going with Plate Armor isn't that big of a bonus over Studded Leather.
If you are choosing fighting style i would personally choose Duelist for the two extra damage over defensive duelist.
I had my first sesh zero Sunday, smaller Dragonborn-Rogue and my kinda general idea was swashbuckler battlemaster but I was reading through classes for fun and eldritch knight stood out this time. It was never considered but suddenly it was interesting. I went to Google, searched swashbuckler eldritch knight, read the thread.
I've described my idea loosely as equal parts Danny Ocean, Petyr Baelish, Zorro. Wanted someone who's very sneaky but capable. And after the sesh zero the vibe I'm feeling leans me in wanting a lot of what Eldritch Knight has to offer.. I feel I can still balance the sneaky bugger who maybe even avoids some conflict if he can but should there be no other option.
Part of me thinks it may be too Jekyll/Hyde but it does seem like it'd be fun and yeah maybe it's silly. Idk. Feedback welcome. Didn't want to start a new thread so figured best to continue this.
*edit* If it matters, I rolled incredibly well, the Roll20 gods were with me that day so I benefit. My intelligence was my dump and it's still an 11.
I noticed nobody ever posts builds for a Multi-classed Eldritch Knight/Swashbuckler.
Level 4 Eldritch Knight means I get Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade as cantrips and Shield as a level 1 spell. Cool. I also get Booming Blade.
At level 20 with 20 DEX this would mean a rapier would do 1d8 + 5 + 3d8(Booming Blade) + 8d6 (Sneak Attack) damage. If the target willingly moves before my next turn he takes another 4d8. Correct? And that with AC 19 (AC 24 with Shield Spell).
So with 22 DEX and the Flame Tongue Rapier I can do 1d8 + 8 + 3d8 + 8d6 + 2d6 damage. 4d8 + 10d6 + 8 damage on my attack seems pretty good. And AC 23 (AC 28 with Shield Spell). (Studded Leather +1, Cloak of Protection, Shield +1)
Am I wrong? Terrible build? Dumb?
One change is you can only get sneak attack once per turn. Action surge doesn't give you another turn just another action in the same turn.
You are very right, I was lost in greed.
I went High Half-elf for booming blade and then swashbuckler/battlemaster.
A great idea. Shield is a nice spell to have, but superiority dice are nice.
My bad I read booming blades skill wrong
This actually is a legitimately powerful build, but truly shines with proper party synergy. Taking anywhere from 3-7 fighter levels and then the rest in swashbuckler is a good bet.
Stick to only 3 or 4 levels of fighter if you want to be really using your booming blade or green flame blade, since they take up your entire action and so the extra attack doesn't actually do anything for you. Going for 5-7 means you will be much more fighter than rogue, but means that you can attack as a bonus action with the cantrip, which also means you are more likely to be triggering sneak attacks.
Booming Blade is the superior cantrip under certain circumstances, which are either someone is doing some sort of fear build, or someone has dissonant whispers. These both cause the enemy to "willingly" move away from you, which means opportunity attacks. Combine this with warcaster, and remember that you attacking outside your turn resets your sneak attack damage.
Where does Swashbuckler come into this build? It seems like all you needed was two cantrips, a level 1 spell, and Sneak Attack.
Swashbuckler makes it possible to deal sneak attack damage without needing advantage on the rolls. As long as nobody but the enemy is 5ft from you, you get sneak attack. It also has good abilities that go with it. Assassin is a good choice as well.
This is actually a really good question to ask, what about taking the however many fighter levels makes you want to take it over just taking magic initiate as a feat? You can even have green flame blade scale off of charisma and grab hex as a spell from the warlock list.
Action Surge makes Fighter a very strong dip for Mutliclassing.
Swashbuckler brings a lot to the table. Dodge, Dash, or Hide actions as a bonus action for one, that is actually very strong. Swashbuckler gets Fancy Footwork which allows you to move away from a creature you attack without requiring anything out of your action economy, and if you make a melee attack then you can move away without provoking an attack of opportunity. The swashbuckler archetype takes Sneak Attack and adds a twist to it, it allows you to 1v1 a target while still being able to deal Sneak Attack damage.
If you get the EK to level 5, you can bonus action call your bound daggers, then throw them both with your two attacks. This can be handy for a strength-based Rogue MC.
Why not forgo the shield spell (1 round duration) and take Mage Armor (8 hrs). Mage armor is legal with a shield.
Add in 1 feat and you have nigh god-like AC on 1 attack for each round
At 20 Dex (by lvl 12 or 4 fighter/ 8 rogue) AC with mage armor plus non-magical shield is 20 (25 with defensive duelist per 1 attack each round)
When you are wielding a finesse weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add 5 to your AC for that attack.
Because as an EK, if you start with Fighter as your starting class you can wear Plate, use a Shield, and then use Rapier. Why waste a spell on Mage Armor when you can cast in Heavy Armor? So there is AC 20 without dipping into Dex at all. Only need a 13 Dex to make the build work, can use Str instead to hit with a Finesse weapon and still sneak attack.
Because studded Leather with 20 Dex is only 1 less AC than Plate, and it doesn't give disadvantage on stealth (and Rogues normally do care about stealth, although with 13 Dex, I guess you won't). And it costs 1455 less gold to buy Studded Leather than it does to buy Plate. Heck, if you use the Defensive Fighting Style (which makes sense to use, because none of the other Fighting Styles are useful to an EK/Swashbuckler multiclass), Studded Leather gives the same AC as Mage Armor.
So yeah, choosing Mage Armor is pretty stupid, but going with Plate Armor isn't that big of a bonus over Studded Leather.
As others have mentioned, there are otherways to get the cantrip. If you start as variant Human grab a feat, or if you are high elf or variant half high elf you can grab one cantrip...
Defensive duelist competes with Uncanny dodge, so I don't like it so much.
I do like feats that give you a chance to attack during the bad guys turn, as you can use sneak attack again:
Mage Slayer and Sentinel are good (marital adept is not...) as they let you get that extra attack with sneak attack damage.
If you are choosing fighting style i would personally choose Duelist for the two extra damage over defensive duelist.
I had my first sesh zero Sunday, smaller Dragonborn-Rogue and my kinda general idea was swashbuckler battlemaster but I was reading through classes for fun and eldritch knight stood out this time. It was never considered but suddenly it was interesting. I went to Google, searched swashbuckler eldritch knight, read the thread.
I've described my idea loosely as equal parts Danny Ocean, Petyr Baelish, Zorro. Wanted someone who's very sneaky but capable. And after the sesh zero the vibe I'm feeling leans me in wanting a lot of what Eldritch Knight has to offer.. I feel I can still balance the sneaky bugger who maybe even avoids some conflict if he can but should there be no other option.
Part of me thinks it may be too Jekyll/Hyde but it does seem like it'd be fun and yeah maybe it's silly. Idk. Feedback welcome. Didn't want to start a new thread so figured best to continue this.
*edit* If it matters, I rolled incredibly well, the Roll20 gods were with me that day so I benefit. My intelligence was my dump and it's still an 11.
I think either has upside, but ultimately I went Battlemaster to help set up extra sneak attacks with Battlemaster maneuvers.
The only other thing I would say is wanting Int for for the EK starts getting into MAD territory in my opinion.