Assassinate one trick pony, this is powerful (RESPECT). With AT though you still get everything minus Assassinate
AT VS Inquisitive
With Inquisitive your a detective with sneak attack(batman, RESPECT). With AT though you still get everything minus insight/investigation with the subclass, could get expertise in these
AT VS Mastermind
With Mastermind you get Help as a bonus action at a distance. Mimicking speech, free actor feat and kenku ability (RESPECT). AT can get Find Familar, Owl has flyby can use Help action, and disguise self. With AT also you still get everything else.
AT VS Scout
With Scout you dont get much, just more mobility, but the mobility feat. With AT though you still everything
AT VS Swashbuckler
Ok Swashbuckler get RESPECT, Solo sneak attacking people is Legit, however similar to Assassinate, one trick pony. With AT you still get everything.
Wow, this is so bad. I agree that Arcane Trickster is the best overall, you missed some features on the other sub-classes.
Thief: Use magic device allows you to use things like a staff of healing, or a holy avenger short sword. An AT only counts a rogue, so you couldn't use things like Hat of Wizardry, etc.
Scout: Their 17th level ability gives them a second sneak attack in the same turn.
My biggest problem with Mage Hand Legerdemain is you can't cast mage hand as a bonus action. So versatile trickster needs 1 turn to set up to be useful to you.
Also I like the picture, I will probably use it as a character portrait for a home game. Halfling rogues all the way.
I like the idea of a halfling rogue, but the lack of darkvision and halfling luck becoming less useful with reliable talent makes them feel lackluster mechanically, to me at least.
Arcane trickster is certainly my favorite rogue because the magic that it can add enhances the roguishness of the character.
Best subclass? That's very subjective. I think they're all fairly balanced with one or two choices being kind of underwhelming in most scenarios. The only rogue subclass I'd rank as trash is Assassin as you said is a one-trick pony and its other abilities are mostly ribbons that you'll never get a chance to use.
Inquisitive on its own seems underwhelming but it's on the rogue chasis which makes it very versatile on its own. When multiclassing I recommend monk or ranger as the inquisitive abilities are a good boost to either class.
Mastermind is another one that seems underwhelming on its own, but the ranged bonus action help at level 3 is a huge boost to the party. When this is paired with bard or warlock they can make a social monster. Mastermind can make very good use of the action/bonus action economy in combat, too. Mine is a dagger throwing 7 mastermind/3 lore bard.
Swashbuckler is great to level all the way through or to multiclass with fighter, bard or paladin. Pairing Swashbuckler with feats like charger add extra oomph to the Rogue's hit and run abilities. That extra +5 damage is almost equivalent to a 2nd attack on its own.
Scout is another very good rogue class that can either go all the way or be boosted by multiclassing into ranger or fighter. I like the idea of running a Scout/Arcane archer one of these days.
Thief is great on its own or when combined with other martials. Plus fast hands with the healer feat is too good to pass up. I love how thieves get to make even more use of the scenery because of how easy it is to climb and jump.
Arcane trickster multiclasses exceptionally well with wizard. War magic, bladesinging or divination are the best combos when doing so. Arcane trickster/bladesingers make tanks as good as any eldritch knight. Booming blade/Green flame blade and shadowblade really give this class a boost. Tasha's hideous laughter is a great spell for incapacitating high HP/low wisdom targets like giants and ogres.
All have pretty close to the same damage potential. What changes between subclasses of rogues is the utility to the party for the class. INT/WIS/CHA skills as your emphasis.
i have a character like this with the Mobile feat, and my character is a Half Wood Elf, so 35 ft base, plus 10 ft because of the mobile feat, PLUS another 10 when you activate Bladesong, it is INSANE, and if you take a turn to set up Versatile Trickster, you can just go around untouched hitting everything with advantage.
Arcane Trickster is the most powerful hands down I think.
That said others have a lot of out of combat uses that are compromised in AT because of the need to push intelligence. With expertise, reliable talent and 4 proficienciess the Rogue really can be the best at any of the skills (barring Rangers who can get automatic success on some of them). A Half-Elf scout who takes the skilled feat is going to be proficient in 13 skills with expertise in 6 at 6th level. A phantom can get proficiecny on anything they want and change it with a short rest. Combine this with the higher Charisma and Wisdom they have (because they do not have to max intelligence) and there are some downsides to AT.
Arcane Trickster is the most powerful hands down I think.
That said others have a lot of out of combat uses that are compromised in AT because of the need to push intelligence. With expertise, reliable talent and 4 proficienciess the Rogue really can be the best at any of the skills (barring Rangers who can get automatic success on some of them). A Half-Elf scout who takes the skilled feat is going to be proficient in 13 skills with expertise in 6 at 6th level. A phantom can get proficiecny on anything they want and change it with a short rest. Combine this with the higher Charisma and Wisdom they have (because they do not have to max intelligence) and there are some downsides to AT.
There's very little need to push intelligence on AT. Sure it affects your attack rolls and saving throws, but the best spells for AT are the ones that target yourself, use a weapon attack, or require spending an action to make an investigation check to overcome. Sure the investigation check is more likely to go against you with low int, but if the check is being made, you've already failed.
Arcane Trickster is the most powerful hands down I think.
That said others have a lot of out of combat uses that are compromised in AT because of the need to push intelligence. With expertise, reliable talent and 4 proficienciess the Rogue really can be the best at any of the skills (barring Rangers who can get automatic success on some of them). A Half-Elf scout who takes the skilled feat is going to be proficient in 13 skills with expertise in 6 at 6th level. A phantom can get proficiecny on anything they want and change it with a short rest. Combine this with the higher Charisma and Wisdom they have (because they do not have to max intelligence) and there are some downsides to AT.
There's very little need to push intelligence on AT. Sure it affects your attack rolls and saving throws, but the best spells for AT are the ones that target yourself, use a weapon attack, or require spending an action to make an investigation check to overcome. Sure the investigation check is more likely to go against you with low int, but if the check is being made, you've already failed.
Most of the enchantment spells do require saves. A lot of the best available AT combat spells have saves including Tashas Mind Whip, Tasha's Laughter, and Suggestion as well as Charm Person (which is not really a combat spell, but is ultra useful and gets a save), and that is before you consider the spells that can be of any school.
Having a low intelligence will also seriously nerf spell thief, although that is not really relevant in most campaigns.
If you want to focus entirely on illusions and non-combat cantrips (except Booming Blade) it is probably ok to dump intelligence but that in itself is a pretty severe limit IMO.
Most of the enchantment spells do require saves. A lot of the best available AT combat spells have saves including Tashas Mind Whip, Tasha's Laughter, and Suggestion as well as Charm Person (which is not really a combat spell, but is ultra useful and gets a save), and that is before you consider the spells that can be of any school.
I would consider the best available AT combat spells to be the self buffs, shadow blade, and booming blade. If I'm playing AT, it's because I wanted to play a rogue and I want spells to make me better at what rogues do. If I wanted to do crowd control, I'd be playing a bard instead.
Most of the enchantment spells do require saves. A lot of the best available AT combat spells have saves including Tashas Mind Whip, Tasha's Laughter, and Suggestion as well as Charm Person (which is not really a combat spell, but is ultra useful and gets a save), and that is before you consider the spells that can be of any school.
I would consider the best available AT combat spells to be the self buffs, shadow blade, and booming blade. If I'm playing AT, it's because I wanted to play a rogue and I want spells to make me better at what rogues do. If I wanted to do crowd control, I'd be playing a bard instead.
I generally go with GFB due to the synergy between it and Mage Hand Legerdemain and using oil. I don't generally get shadowblade at all because on most tables I have played you can't use it with the blade cantrips and that makes it redundant. By the time you are getting SB as a Rogue, the blade cantrips are doing just as much damage (and more if you are getting the secondary damage).
IME combat spells are great for when you can't sneak attack, which does happen. I do like invisibility, disguise self and minor illusion on Rogues. But after that I think the enchantments are usually better than the other illusions in most cases, but go with what works for you :-)
How can I choose this subclass? I've been using the free version of DnDB but now hit level 3 and want to purchase whatever bits I need just for this (not sure if I'll end up playing D&D after this, so don't want to go for 'everything' if I don't have to). Would I just need to buy the sub-class for 1.99? Or would I also need to purchase spells, and other things? Any help greatly appreciated!
How can I choose this subclass? I've been using the free version of DnDB but now hit level 3 and want to purchase whatever bits I need just for this (not sure if I'll end up playing D&D after this, so don't want to go for 'everything' if I don't have to). Would I just need to buy the sub-class for 1.99? Or would I also need to purchase spells, and other things? Any help greatly appreciated!
The subclass is in the PHB, but I have absolutely no idea how you go about acquiring specific spells you might need on DDB - on the rare occasion I do my character building on here, it's 100% of the time under a DM who simply turns on content sharing so I can access their sourcebooks. Check with your DM - it's very unlikely they're allowing content they can't provide you with.
How can I choose this subclass? I've been using the free version of DnDB but now hit level 3 and want to purchase whatever bits I need just for this (not sure if I'll end up playing D&D after this, so don't want to go for 'everything' if I don't have to). Would I just need to buy the sub-class for 1.99? Or would I also need to purchase spells, and other things? Any help greatly appreciated!
The subclass is in the PHB, but I have absolutely no idea how you go about acquiring specific spells you might need on DDB - on the rare occasion I do my character building on here, it's 100% of the time under a DM who simply turns on content sharing so I can access their sourcebooks. Check with your DM - it's very unlikely they're allowing content they can't provide you with.
Thanks! I will try this. He did tell us that he has a subscription, so I assume he should be able to do this.
The key is how good elven accuracy + steady aim is, how much better ranged rogues are than melee rogues, and how well Skirmisher supports the playstyle.
The extra expertise doesn't hurt as you become a phenom at finding the next enemy before they find you.
The key is how good elven accuracy + steady aim is, how much better ranged rogues are than melee rogues, and how well Skirmisher supports the playstyle.
The extra expertise doesn't hurt as you become a phenom at finding the next enemy before they find you.
I am playing a half-elf scout level 8 right now. He is a fun character but he is not as powerful as the Arcane Tricksters I have played.
I don't find skirmisher to be that useful, because usually when someone ends their turn next to me they also usually are there because they attacked me and usually hit me. So I use my reaction for uncanny dodge.
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You get everything and more
Assassinate one trick pony, this is powerful (RESPECT). With AT though you still get everything minus Assassinate
With Inquisitive your a detective with sneak attack(batman, RESPECT). With AT though you still get everything minus insight/investigation with the subclass, could get expertise in these
With Mastermind you get Help as a bonus action at a distance. Mimicking speech, free actor feat and kenku ability (RESPECT). AT can get Find Familar, Owl has flyby can use Help action, and disguise self. With AT also you still get everything else.
With Scout you dont get much, just more mobility, but the mobility feat. With AT though you still everything
Ok Swashbuckler get RESPECT, Solo sneak attacking people is Legit, however similar to Assassinate, one trick pony. With AT you still get everything.
What is Everything?
Everything is 5E
What is 5e?
Magic(aka Spells) MAD RESPECT
Also what is the MVP?
Mage Hand Legerdemain
Wow, this is so bad. I agree that Arcane Trickster is the best overall, you missed some features on the other sub-classes.
Thief: Use magic device allows you to use things like a staff of healing, or a holy avenger short sword. An AT only counts a rogue, so you couldn't use things like Hat of Wizardry, etc.
Scout: Their 17th level ability gives them a second sneak attack in the same turn.
My biggest problem with Mage Hand Legerdemain is you can't cast mage hand as a bonus action. So versatile trickster needs 1 turn to set up to be useful to you.
Also I like the picture, I will probably use it as a character portrait for a home game. Halfling rogues all the way.
I like the idea of a halfling rogue, but the lack of darkvision and halfling luck becoming less useful with reliable talent makes them feel lackluster mechanically, to me at least.
Mostly true but not entirely perfect. Add a level dip into Wizard? Perfect.
Who did the art for this arcane trickster?
Arcane trickster is certainly my favorite rogue because the magic that it can add enhances the roguishness of the character.
Best subclass? That's very subjective. I think they're all fairly balanced with one or two choices being kind of underwhelming in most scenarios. The only rogue subclass I'd rank as trash is Assassin as you said is a one-trick pony and its other abilities are mostly ribbons that you'll never get a chance to use.
Inquisitive on its own seems underwhelming but it's on the rogue chasis which makes it very versatile on its own. When multiclassing I recommend monk or ranger as the inquisitive abilities are a good boost to either class.
Mastermind is another one that seems underwhelming on its own, but the ranged bonus action help at level 3 is a huge boost to the party. When this is paired with bard or warlock they can make a social monster. Mastermind can make very good use of the action/bonus action economy in combat, too. Mine is a dagger throwing 7 mastermind/3 lore bard.
Swashbuckler is great to level all the way through or to multiclass with fighter, bard or paladin. Pairing Swashbuckler with feats like charger add extra oomph to the Rogue's hit and run abilities. That extra +5 damage is almost equivalent to a 2nd attack on its own.
Scout is another very good rogue class that can either go all the way or be boosted by multiclassing into ranger or fighter. I like the idea of running a Scout/Arcane archer one of these days.
Thief is great on its own or when combined with other martials. Plus fast hands with the healer feat is too good to pass up. I love how thieves get to make even more use of the scenery because of how easy it is to climb and jump.
Arcane trickster multiclasses exceptionally well with wizard. War magic, bladesinging or divination are the best combos when doing so. Arcane trickster/bladesingers make tanks as good as any eldritch knight. Booming blade/Green flame blade and shadowblade really give this class a boost. Tasha's hideous laughter is a great spell for incapacitating high HP/low wisdom targets like giants and ogres.
All have pretty close to the same damage potential. What changes between subclasses of rogues is the utility to the party for the class. INT/WIS/CHA skills as your emphasis.
Swashbuckler with five levels of Hexblade/Pact of the Blade is quite nice.
My two favorite races for Arcane Trickster are High Elf and Forest Gnome.
Arcane Trickster Lv18 / Bladesinging Wizard Lv2.
Absolutely amazing.
i have a character like this with the Mobile feat, and my character is a Half Wood Elf, so 35 ft base, plus 10 ft because of the mobile feat, PLUS another 10 when you activate Bladesong, it is INSANE, and if you take a turn to set up Versatile Trickster, you can just go around untouched hitting everything with advantage.
Soul knife vs arcane trickster?
Arcane Trickster is the most powerful hands down I think.
That said others have a lot of out of combat uses that are compromised in AT because of the need to push intelligence. With expertise, reliable talent and 4 proficienciess the Rogue really can be the best at any of the skills (barring Rangers who can get automatic success on some of them). A Half-Elf scout who takes the skilled feat is going to be proficient in 13 skills with expertise in 6 at 6th level. A phantom can get proficiecny on anything they want and change it with a short rest. Combine this with the higher Charisma and Wisdom they have (because they do not have to max intelligence) and there are some downsides to AT.
There's very little need to push intelligence on AT. Sure it affects your attack rolls and saving throws, but the best spells for AT are the ones that target yourself, use a weapon attack, or require spending an action to make an investigation check to overcome. Sure the investigation check is more likely to go against you with low int, but if the check is being made, you've already failed.
Most of the enchantment spells do require saves. A lot of the best available AT combat spells have saves including Tashas Mind Whip, Tasha's Laughter, and Suggestion as well as Charm Person (which is not really a combat spell, but is ultra useful and gets a save), and that is before you consider the spells that can be of any school.
Having a low intelligence will also seriously nerf spell thief, although that is not really relevant in most campaigns.
If you want to focus entirely on illusions and non-combat cantrips (except Booming Blade) it is probably ok to dump intelligence but that in itself is a pretty severe limit IMO.
I would consider the best available AT combat spells to be the self buffs, shadow blade, and booming blade. If I'm playing AT, it's because I wanted to play a rogue and I want spells to make me better at what rogues do. If I wanted to do crowd control, I'd be playing a bard instead.
I generally go with GFB due to the synergy between it and Mage Hand Legerdemain and using oil. I don't generally get shadowblade at all because on most tables I have played you can't use it with the blade cantrips and that makes it redundant. By the time you are getting SB as a Rogue, the blade cantrips are doing just as much damage (and more if you are getting the secondary damage).
IME combat spells are great for when you can't sneak attack, which does happen. I do like invisibility, disguise self and minor illusion on Rogues. But after that I think the enchantments are usually better than the other illusions in most cases, but go with what works for you :-)
How can I choose this subclass? I've been using the free version of DnDB but now hit level 3 and want to purchase whatever bits I need just for this (not sure if I'll end up playing D&D after this, so don't want to go for 'everything' if I don't have to). Would I just need to buy the sub-class for 1.99? Or would I also need to purchase spells, and other things? Any help greatly appreciated!
The subclass is in the PHB, but I have absolutely no idea how you go about acquiring specific spells you might need on DDB - on the rare occasion I do my character building on here, it's 100% of the time under a DM who simply turns on content sharing so I can access their sourcebooks. Check with your DM - it's very unlikely they're allowing content they can't provide you with.
Thanks! I will try this. He did tell us that he has a subscription, so I assume he should be able to do this.
Hot take: Elf or Half-Elf Scout is the best rogue
I mean you really undersold it.
The key is how good elven accuracy + steady aim is, how much better ranged rogues are than melee rogues, and how well Skirmisher supports the playstyle.
The extra expertise doesn't hurt as you become a phenom at finding the next enemy before they find you.
I am playing a half-elf scout level 8 right now. He is a fun character but he is not as powerful as the Arcane Tricksters I have played.
I don't find skirmisher to be that useful, because usually when someone ends their turn next to me they also usually are there because they attacked me and usually hit me. So I use my reaction for uncanny dodge.