in my next campaign i want to play as a goblin rogue. little backstory is that my group is having a blast when we face goblins since our dm tends to play them really well. in our last campaign my group left without killing the goblin toddlers so i want to snatch the opportunity and play one of that group. meanwhile im playing Pathfinder Kingmaker and Nok Nok is the ideal portrait. Plus i plan to lie a lot rp-wise, for example, once he will say about his trips as a pirate, once about his days as a personal counselor in some king and staff like that.
Sooo, i have no clue about rogues.. i found out that Swashbuckler is one of the best, if not the best, archetype but my char will be far from a defender view. i thought about Arcane Trickster as the name implies that it might be suitable but frankly i have no clue how to build one... i can see way too many archetypes, i like seeing numbers , so gurus enlighten me which to pick and how to build one...
since the goblin gets some racial abilities that mimic or mirror some of the rogues features to an extent... I would suggest actually playing a cleric of the trickery domain... for ropeplay purposes you could play him like a rogue of sorts... you would have the advantage of adding a cleric to your group albeit a non-traditional one... their domain spells could also help you portray a rogue-like character... and that channel divinity can be a lot of fun.
(and just as a side not... far and away Thief is the best subclass of Rogue, it's not even close with the others)
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Some information might be helpful in helping you decide.
Is your DM pretty lenient? 1-10 (1 being very rule of cool, 10 being by the book only)
Do you prefer to focus on your skills or combat damage? 1-10 (1 being RP or skill focused, 10 being maximizing damage per round)
Do you prefer the aesthetics/concept of your character or pure functionality? 1-10 (1 being more focused on concept, 10 being focused on role function)
Do you want to deal with knowing and understanding about spell usage and coming up with extra creative ways to use them or do you want to just focus on your skills/attacking? 1-10 (1 wanting to have all kinds of ways to use spells, 10 being focused on doing classic rogue things and stabbing/shooting)
Lastly: melee or ranged?
oh yeah... also what level do you think the campaign will actually get to/end at?
Arcane Tricksters are my favourite rogue sub-class and probably my favourite class ever. Look towards high Dex as your prime stat, then Con, Int, Wis, Chr, Str. With the 3 mental stats being broadly interchangeable.
Intelligence is your casting stat, however many of the spells you chose will not need an attack roll or saving throw so it will not need to be really high, but there are also many Int based skills. Wisdom is good for perception - can't disarm a trap that you can't see, it has a few good skills and is an important saving throw. Charisma is useful for a large number of skills that help flesh a rogue out when not fighting but becomes less useful if you already have several charisma based characters in the group. Strength should be your lowest - you won't really be using it for much.
Cantrips - you start with mage hand and 2 others, you will need to pick based on what your campaign is like but as a general rule take an attack cantrip and a utility cantrip say simple illusion and booming blade or maybe a melee attack and ranged attack cantrip such as booming blade and firebolt or ray of frost.
Levelled spells - again will be dependent on your game, 2 have to be enchantment / illusion and there are a lot of threads about what is best, you won't regret taking find familiar for your free spell, mage armour coming in as a valuable second. You would need to decide based on how you play - combat heavy, rp focused, roughly mixed, murder hobo's etc.
Skills and expertise will vary between game styles too. Perception and stealth are a must, acrobatics is often a good one as you will be bad at athletics. A knowledge skill or two or social skills like deception / persuasion, possibly insight or investigation - all depending on your style of play. Expertise could be perception and stealth or maybe thieves tools and one other if the game has a lot of traps and locks.
Equipment wise you want rapier or twin shortswords / scimitars ideally, studded leather armour gives 16/17 AC (Mage armour is 1 better but will cost you a precious spell slot 17 or 18 AC without a shield).
Based on that, i'd say Assassin or Arcane Trickster
The assassin will allow you to get heavy damage from surprise attacks (assassinate lvl 3, death strike lvl 17), and you can make false identities for you to RP your lies with (infiltration expertise lvl 9 and Imposter lvl 13). A rule of cool type DM usually is more lenient with the ability to get off your surprise crit. A by the book DM will make it really hard to get that surprise crit, because by the books it's actually not that easy to consistently get.
For Assassin... stat wise Dex > Con > Wis > Int > Cha > Str. The majority of your deception can be achieved through proficiency expertise and reliable talent at 11, but I think perception and survivability are more important than a few points in persuasion/deception in the long run... That's just how I see it.. i'm sure others may disagree.
Arcane trickster, i basically agree with the above post, stats and all
Swashbuckler isn't a bad choice, but based on your answers and the character concept I'd go with one of these two.
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Hello fellow players
in my next campaign i want to play as a goblin rogue. little backstory is that my group is having a blast when we face goblins since our dm tends to play them really well. in our last campaign my group left without killing the goblin toddlers so i want to snatch the opportunity and play one of that group. meanwhile im playing Pathfinder Kingmaker and Nok Nok is the ideal portrait. Plus i plan to lie a lot rp-wise, for example, once he will say about his trips as a pirate, once about his days as a personal counselor in some king and staff like that.
Sooo, i have no clue about rogues.. i found out that Swashbuckler is one of the best, if not the best, archetype but my char will be far from a defender view. i thought about Arcane Trickster as the name implies that it might be suitable but frankly i have no clue how to build one... i can see way too many archetypes, i like seeing numbers , so gurus enlighten me which to pick and how to build one...
thnx in advance guys.
since the goblin gets some racial abilities that mimic or mirror some of the rogues features to an extent... I would suggest actually playing a cleric of the trickery domain... for ropeplay purposes you could play him like a rogue of sorts... you would have the advantage of adding a cleric to your group albeit a non-traditional one... their domain spells could also help you portray a rogue-like character... and that channel divinity can be a lot of fun.
(and just as a side not... far and away Thief is the best subclass of Rogue, it's not even close with the others)
Some information might be helpful in helping you decide.
Is your DM pretty lenient?
1-10 (1 being very rule of cool, 10 being by the book only)
Do you prefer to focus on your skills or combat damage?
1-10 (1 being RP or skill focused, 10 being maximizing damage per round)
Do you prefer the aesthetics/concept of your character or pure functionality?
1-10 (1 being more focused on concept, 10 being focused on role function)
Do you want to deal with knowing and understanding about spell usage and coming up with extra creative ways to use them or do you want to just focus on your skills/attacking?
1-10 (1 wanting to have all kinds of ways to use spells, 10 being focused on doing classic rogue things and stabbing/shooting)
Lastly:
melee or ranged?
oh yeah... also what level do you think the campaign will actually get to/end at?
Arcane Tricksters are my favourite rogue sub-class and probably my favourite class ever. Look towards high Dex as your prime stat, then Con, Int, Wis, Chr, Str. With the 3 mental stats being broadly interchangeable.
Intelligence is your casting stat, however many of the spells you chose will not need an attack roll or saving throw so it will not need to be really high, but there are also many Int based skills. Wisdom is good for perception - can't disarm a trap that you can't see, it has a few good skills and is an important saving throw. Charisma is useful for a large number of skills that help flesh a rogue out when not fighting but becomes less useful if you already have several charisma based characters in the group. Strength should be your lowest - you won't really be using it for much.
Cantrips - you start with mage hand and 2 others, you will need to pick based on what your campaign is like but as a general rule take an attack cantrip and a utility cantrip say simple illusion and booming blade or maybe a melee attack and ranged attack cantrip such as booming blade and firebolt or ray of frost.
Levelled spells - again will be dependent on your game, 2 have to be enchantment / illusion and there are a lot of threads about what is best, you won't regret taking find familiar for your free spell, mage armour coming in as a valuable second. You would need to decide based on how you play - combat heavy, rp focused, roughly mixed, murder hobo's etc.
Skills and expertise will vary between game styles too. Perception and stealth are a must, acrobatics is often a good one as you will be bad at athletics. A knowledge skill or two or social skills like deception / persuasion, possibly insight or investigation - all depending on your style of play. Expertise could be perception and stealth or maybe thieves tools and one other if the game has a lot of traps and locks.
Equipment wise you want rapier or twin shortswords / scimitars ideally, studded leather armour gives 16/17 AC (Mage armour is 1 better but will cost you a precious spell slot 17 or 18 AC without a shield).
The answers are
2
6
Mostly 2 but since i will go as goblin 8
5
melee would be ideal, otherwise i would have picked Ranger maybe BM with a wolf.
taking into account the last two campaigns we reached 15 at least so there more and less.
Based on that, i'd say Assassin or Arcane Trickster
The assassin will allow you to get heavy damage from surprise attacks (assassinate lvl 3, death strike lvl 17), and you can make false identities for you to RP your lies with (infiltration expertise lvl 9 and Imposter lvl 13). A rule of cool type DM usually is more lenient with the ability to get off your surprise crit. A by the book DM will make it really hard to get that surprise crit, because by the books it's actually not that easy to consistently get.
For Assassin... stat wise Dex > Con > Wis > Int > Cha > Str. The majority of your deception can be achieved through proficiency expertise and reliable talent at 11, but I think perception and survivability are more important than a few points in persuasion/deception in the long run... That's just how I see it.. i'm sure others may disagree.
Arcane trickster, i basically agree with the above post, stats and all
Swashbuckler isn't a bad choice, but based on your answers and the character concept I'd go with one of these two.