Question about Assassinate: An Assassin stands outside a door and knows there are people inside. He readies a crossbow, prepares to open the door to shot his unaware but until door is opened sight unseen target. How does combat proceed? He opens the door makes his attack. Then his fellow companions rush in to attack. Is there an assassination attempt possible? What is order of combat?
Ok so the Rouge gets an assassination result even though they have only just seen their target if target is surprised. Seems counter intuitive.
Not really, he made his perception check, knows roughly how many are in the room and if they are near to the door, footsteps would indicate if they are moving around or sat/stationary. It would take very little time to open the door, select a target and fire. Military and police teams around the world do this on a daily basis.
Yep got no problem with them taking the shot, even getting sneak attack because they go first on initiative, but not sure about assassination sight unseen. Just gathering opinions before I make decision in my game.
So the assassinate ability as written should be fine as he see's the enemy as soon as he opens the door (they aren't unseen at that point) - the rogue opens the door, moves in, has a surprise attack using his assassinate ability;
Assassinate
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Determine if anyone is surprised. Compare opponents passive perception against stealth rolls of all players outside the room (Leave the noisy plate mailed paladin way at the back or around the corner so as to not involve them, they can rush in next turn).
Everyone rolls initiative. Combat proceeds in initiative order and surprised opponents dont get to move, act or react on their initiative turn.
Case 1. If the Assassin goes before their expected target (The mage or big bad in the room) they get advantage (sneak attack) and if the target is surprised then its an assassination auto critical.
Case 2. If the Assassin goes before their expected target they get advantage (sneak attack) and if the target is not surprised (because they have a high passive perception and saw the door opening) then no assassination auto critical.
Case 3. If the expected target goes first and they are surprised they take no action, end of their turn and they are no longer surprised. The Assassin takes their turn, no advantage no surprise they fire at target and the target could use a reaction spell to increase their AC (Damn)
Case 4. If the expected target goes first and they are not surprised (Double damn) they can take all of their actions as you lucked out on a very alert target.
Determine if anyone is surprised. Compare opponents passive perception against stealth rolls of all players outside the room (Leave the noisy plate mailed paladin way at the back or around the corner so as to not involve them, they can rush in next turn).
Everyone rolls initiative. Combat proceeds in initiative order and surprised opponents dont get to move, act or react on their initiative turn.
Case 1. If the Assassin goes before their expected target (The mage or big bad in the room) they get advantage (sneak attack) and if the target is surprised then its an assassination auto critical.
Case 2. If the Assassin goes before their expected target they get advantage (sneak attack) and if the target is not surprised (because they have a high passive perception and saw the door opening) then no assassination auto critical.
Case 3. If the expected target goes first and they are surprised they take no action, end of their turn and they are no longer surprised. The Assassin takes their turn, no advantage no surprise they fire at target and the target could use a reaction spell to increase their AC (Damn)
Case 4. If the expected target goes first and they are not surprised (Double damn) they can take all of their actions as you lucked out on a very alert target.
Correct.
This is how I DM surprise attacks as well.
The risk: your assassin was spotted and doesn’t get surprise attack. He is now face to face with a room full of angry opponents and your backup is at *least* one roll away.
The reward: You get that sweet assassinate.
I require my plate mail fighter to roll sneak if he’s anywhere near combat when it starts. If he’s heard beforehand, no one is going to be surprised by the assassin regardless. With ONE exception:
The fighter decides to bash the door down like a bull. That counts as surprise for me if he can one-shot the door (if it takes two shots... no surprise and enemies might even ready some actions on their turn). If he does though, I’d give him surprise. Risk? There’s no one in the next room and he just made his presence know to the next 3 rooms of the dungeon.
Question about Assassinate: An Assassin stands outside a door and knows there are people inside. He readies a crossbow, prepares to open the door to shot his unaware but until door is opened sight unseen target. How does combat proceed? He opens the door makes his attack. Then his fellow companions rush in to attack. Is there an assassination attempt possible? What is order of combat?
Open the door and roll for initiative, anyone surprised doesn't get to act in the first round.
Ok so the Rouge gets an assassination result even though they have only just seen their target if target is surprised. Seems counter intuitive.
Not really, he made his perception check, knows roughly how many are in the room and if they are near to the door, footsteps would indicate if they are moving around or sat/stationary. It would take very little time to open the door, select a target and fire. Military and police teams around the world do this on a daily basis.
Yep got no problem with them taking the shot, even getting sneak attack because they go first on initiative, but not sure about assassination sight unseen. Just gathering opinions before I make decision in my game.
So the assassinate ability as written should be fine as he see's the enemy as soon as he opens the door (they aren't unseen at that point) - the rogue opens the door, moves in, has a surprise attack using his assassinate ability;
Assassinate
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Ok, I also read a Sage advice from Jeremy Crawford. https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-november-2015
Combat should go like this then.
Door is opened.
Determine if anyone is surprised. Compare opponents passive perception against stealth rolls of all players outside the room (Leave the noisy plate mailed paladin way at the back or around the corner so as to not involve them, they can rush in next turn).
Everyone rolls initiative. Combat proceeds in initiative order and surprised opponents dont get to move, act or react on their initiative turn.
Case 1. If the Assassin goes before their expected target (The mage or big bad in the room) they get advantage (sneak attack) and if the target is surprised then its an assassination auto critical.
Case 2. If the Assassin goes before their expected target they get advantage (sneak attack) and if the target is not surprised (because they have a high passive perception and saw the door opening) then no assassination auto critical.
Case 3. If the expected target goes first and they are surprised they take no action, end of their turn and they are no longer surprised. The Assassin takes their turn, no advantage no surprise they fire at target and the target could use a reaction spell to increase their AC (Damn)
Case 4. If the expected target goes first and they are not surprised (Double damn) they can take all of their actions as you lucked out on a very alert target.
Correct.
This is how I DM surprise attacks as well.
The risk: your assassin was spotted and doesn’t get surprise attack. He is now face to face with a room full of angry opponents and your backup is at *least* one roll away.
The reward: You get that sweet assassinate.
I require my plate mail fighter to roll sneak if he’s anywhere near combat when it starts. If he’s heard beforehand, no one is going to be surprised by the assassin regardless. With ONE exception:
The fighter decides to bash the door down like a bull. That counts as surprise for me if he can one-shot the door (if it takes two shots... no surprise and enemies might even ready some actions on their turn). If he does though, I’d give him surprise. Risk? There’s no one in the next room and he just made his presence know to the next 3 rooms of the dungeon.