I'm thinking of doing a clockwork sorcerer and certain abilities (mostly bastion of law) seem like it's got melee potential. I'd like to know if anyone's tried doing a melee focused sorcerer in general, or specifically a melee clockwork sorcerer? How do you generally go about it?
Ideally I'd like them to be more of a battlefield controler to compensate for some of the sorcerer's squishiness, but also because I find controllers fun. Also, ideally I would either not want to multiclass, OR multiclass as little as possible. I'd consider some rogue levels to get the most out of no multiattack. Though I could also be pursueded to do some fighter instead if I must.
At earlier levels you can replace one of your clockwork spells with armor of agathy's as it's an abjuration spell. Use your spell slots to convert into sorcery points which you can make into a big powerful spell slot, and cast armor of agathy's. Bam! Temp HP as well as being a danger to enemies engaging you in melee.
Transmuted spell on armor of agathy's allows you to overcome resistances and immunities.
Also shield is a must have spell for this build.
For weapon/armor proficiencies you can choose a race which give proficiency in weapons, or a fighter, paladin or Hexblade dip could work as well.
I'm thinking of doing a clockwork sorcerer and certain abilities (mostly bastion of law) seem like it's got melee potential. I'd like to know if anyone's tried doing a melee focused sorcerer in general, or specifically a melee clockwork sorcerer? How do you generally go about it?
Ideally I'd like them to be more of a battlefield controler to compensate for some of the sorcerer's squishiness, but also because I find controllers fun.
What do people think?
A 1 level dip into Order Domain Cleric (preferably at 2nd level) to go with Clockwork Soul Sorcerer would give what you are looking for. You get access to heavy armor, a bunch of useful spells and cantrips like Bless and Guidance. Voice of Authority will make any Rogues or to a lesser degree any hard hitting martial character in the party love you while giving you the feeling of being the one calling the shots.
Looking at Armor of Agathys, damn that might be all you need to do melee. Best part is you can upcast (20 temp hp and 20 damage per hit for a 4th level slot!), stack it with bastion of law, AND it leaves your concentration free for slow/haste, levitate, etc to lock enemies down, then you pack green flame blade and booming blade and you're basically there.
Mage armor/shield could be a cherry on top, but you'd need to make sure to cast MA in advance because you don't wanna start combat with two turns in a row of defensive buffs only for the party to kill the bad guy in that time.
Take minimum 3 levels of Paladin (oath of devotion) to get sacred weapon. Paladins are also CHA based and therefore easily to MC with a Sorcerer. It gives you all armor and weapon proficiencies if you start as a Paladin.
With 20 CHA and 20 STR and sacred weapon and bastion of law you will not be lower than 10 +5 (CHA Mod) +5 (STR Mod) +6 (Prof. at the end) = 26 minimum on attack rolls. Its more or less a guaranteed hit. (even Tarrasque and Tiamat "only" have 25 AC) Not sure if there are any Monsters with the Shield spell and 22 AC.
Take minimum 3 levels of Paladin (oath of devotion) to get sacred weapon. Paladins are also CHA based and therefore easily to MC with a Sorcerer. It gives you all armor and weapon proficiencies if you start as a Paladin.
With 20 CHA and 20 STR and sacred weapon and bastion of law you will not be lower than 10 +5 (CHA Mod) +5 (STR Mod) +6 (Prof. at the end) = 26 minimum on attack rolls. Its more or less a guaranteed hit. (even Tarrasque and Tiamat "only" have 25 AC) Not sure if there are any Monsters with the Shield spell and 22 AC.
I think you mixed up Bastion of Law with Trance of Order which is the level 14 Sorcerer ability. This means your suggestion does not come online until level 17 at the earliest, a point in which most campaigns have long since ended.
I'm thinking of doing a clockwork sorcerer and certain abilities (mostly bastion of law) seem like it's got melee potential. I'd like to know if anyone's tried doing a melee focused sorcerer in general, or specifically a melee clockwork sorcerer? How do you generally go about it?
Ideally I'd like them to be more of a battlefield controler to compensate for some of the sorcerer's squishiness, but also because I find controllers fun.
What do people think?
A 1 level dip into Order Domain Cleric (preferably at 2nd level) to go with Clockwork Soul Sorcerer would give what you are looking for. You get access to heavy armor, a bunch of useful spells and cantrips like Bless and Guidance. Voice of Authority will make any Rogues or to a lesser degree any hard hitting martial character in the party love you while giving you the feeling of being the one calling the shots.
Overall good advice, but don't you need to take Order Domain at level 1 to get Heavy Armor proficiency?
I'm thinking of doing a clockwork sorcerer and certain abilities (mostly bastion of law) seem like it's got melee potential. I'd like to know if anyone's tried doing a melee focused sorcerer in general, or specifically a melee clockwork sorcerer? How do you generally go about it?
Ideally I'd like them to be more of a battlefield controler to compensate for some of the sorcerer's squishiness, but also because I find controllers fun.
What do people think?
A 1 level dip into Order Domain Cleric (preferably at 2nd level) to go with Clockwork Soul Sorcerer would give what you are looking for. You get access to heavy armor, a bunch of useful spells and cantrips like Bless and Guidance. Voice of Authority will make any Rogues or to a lesser degree any hard hitting martial character in the party love you while giving you the feeling of being the one calling the shots.
Overall good advice, but don't you need to take Order Domain at level 1 to get Heavy Armor proficiency?
Nope, while Fighters and Paladins normally need you to take that class at level 1 for heavy armor proficiency, Clerics sidestep that little detail as they get it via their subclass feature.
I'm thinking of doing a clockwork sorcerer and certain abilities (mostly bastion of law) seem like it's got melee potential. I'd like to know if anyone's tried doing a melee focused sorcerer in general, or specifically a melee clockwork sorcerer? How do you generally go about it?
Ideally I'd like them to be more of a battlefield controler to compensate for some of the sorcerer's squishiness, but also because I find controllers fun.
What do people think?
A 1 level dip into Order Domain Cleric (preferably at 2nd level) to go with Clockwork Soul Sorcerer would give what you are looking for. You get access to heavy armor, a bunch of useful spells and cantrips like Bless and Guidance. Voice of Authority will make any Rogues or to a lesser degree any hard hitting martial character in the party love you while giving you the feeling of being the one calling the shots.
Overall good advice, but don't you need to take Order Domain at level 1 to get Heavy Armor proficiency?
Nope, while Fighters and Paladins normally need you to take that class at level 1 for heavy armor proficiency, Clerics sidestep that little detail as they get it via their subclass feature.
I'm going to strongly disagree with that statement. The wording of Bonus Proficiency states "When you choose this Domain at first level." You're not choosing the domain at 1st level if you multiclass into it at level 2.
So by your argument if I don't take say Arcana Domain Clerics at character level 1 then I do not get proficiency in Arcana nor do I get the 2 wizard cantrips?
And oh my goodness if I take Tempest Domain at character level 2 not only do I miss out on heavy armor and martial weapon proficiencies I also lose the Wrath of the Storm ability? Because Wrath of the Storm says "Also at level 1" right after the part where you get armor and weapon proficiencies.
By that reasoning Clerics is a terrible class to multi into.
We can also say goodbye to all the Sorlocks that want to wear medium armor if they take Hexblade at 2nd level.
But thankfully this is not how the game works. Now of course you are free to express your opinions on this but RAW and RAI I am fairly certain supports my opinion just a little bit more.
Edit: Incidently I just tried making a multiclass right here on DND Beyond, starting first level Sorcerer and second level Cleric (Life) and guess what? My character got heavy armor proficiency. Then to make doubly sure I made a Sorcerer and multiclass into Fighter and nope no heavy armor proficiency there.
I'm thinking of doing a clockwork sorcerer and certain abilities (mostly bastion of law) seem like it's got melee potential. I'd like to know if anyone's tried doing a melee focused sorcerer in general, or specifically a melee clockwork sorcerer? How do you generally go about it?
Ideally I'd like them to be more of a battlefield controler to compensate for some of the sorcerer's squishiness, but also because I find controllers fun. Also, ideally I would either not want to multiclass, OR multiclass as little as possible. I'd consider some rogue levels to get the most out of no multiattack. Though I could also be pursueded to do some fighter instead if I must.
What do people think?
I ran into this problem of trying to make a melee sorcerer too.
Basically I wanted to do a guy with innate magic that he couldn't fully control that had multiple personalities, one of which was sort of a swashbuckiling whip-wielding guy. I wanted his magic to be like this creepy sort of out of control whispers thing, but also I wanted him to have sort of a magic-bandit persona that would wield shadow-blade. So ideally I wanted to pull off getting dissonant whispers, chaos bolt, wildmagic surge, and proficiency with whip and some sort of melee capacity.... which was basically impossible. The bladesinger could have been perfect for the melee aspect (and geting 2 atttacks and being able to use cantrips with it), but it didn't fit the uncontrolled magic vibe, the spell list didn't have stuff that fit the theme, and I wanted him to be cha-based. So I looked into a bard multiclass but weirdly you don't get the weapon proficiencies, unless you do three levels and pick college of swords, but at least you get dissonant whispers. Finally i looked at Warlock. A warlock dip could be good but I'm kinda stuck between the Old One who gets dissonant whispers and the hexblade for the weapons and armor and (if you go to level 2) the advantage on Con Saves with one of the invocations. The problem I ran into was that is that you can't really get your hexblade benefits with shadowblade, you gotta use your own pact weapon. Trying to make this character not suck has given me a serious headache, I might actually abandon the concept tbh.
Anyway a 1-dip into hexblade warlock could solve your armor and weapon proficiency problem anyway. Another solution is being an elf or variant half-elf and getting weapon versatility.
So I'm looking at playing a tiefling and not looking to multiclass. Eventually I could pick up proficiency in weapons with a feat, but I'm wondering, do I pretty much have to go dex-based melee? I'd love to use a longsword just for aesthetic, but that means probably having lower AC overall, which I'll still want good AC regardless of Armor of Agathys I'm sure. What do you think? Go sub-optimal for the aesthetic, or do you think it'll be un-fun to play if I don't go Dex?
So I'm looking at playing a tiefling and not looking to multiclass. Eventually I could pick up proficiency in weapons with a feat, but I'm wondering, do I pretty much have to go dex-based melee? I'd love to use a longsword just for aesthetic, but that means probably having lower AC overall, which I'll still want good AC regardless of Armor of Agathys I'm sure. What do you think? Go sub-optimal for the aesthetic, or do you think it'll be un-fun to play if I don't go Dex?
If you are not planning to multiclass and still want to poke stuff in melee on the odd occasion then my suggestion is to use Flame Blade instead. Although it looks like a scimitar I am certain your DM would have no problems with you reskinning it to look like a longsword instead. The advantages are you can attack with your CHA, you save a feat because you no longer need weapon proficiency and you can combine it with Transmuted Spell metamagic to reflavor it even more if you do not like flaming swords.
So I'm looking at playing a tiefling and not looking to multiclass. Eventually I could pick up proficiency in weapons with a feat, but I'm wondering, do I pretty much have to go dex-based melee? I'd love to use a longsword just for aesthetic, but that means probably having lower AC overall, which I'll still want good AC regardless of Armor of Agathys I'm sure. What do you think? Go sub-optimal for the aesthetic, or do you think it'll be un-fun to play if I don't go Dex?
If you are not planning to multiclass and still want to poke stuff in melee on the odd occasion then my suggestion is to use Flame Blade instead. Although it looks like a scimitar I am certain your DM would have no problems with you reskinning it to look like a longsword instead. The advantages are you can attack with your CHA, you save a feat because you no longer need weapon proficiency and you can combine it with Transmuted Spell metamagic to reflavor it even more if you do not like flaming swords.
So I'm looking at playing a tiefling and not looking to multiclass. Eventually I could pick up proficiency in weapons with a feat, but I'm wondering, do I pretty much have to go dex-based melee? I'd love to use a longsword just for aesthetic, but that means probably having lower AC overall, which I'll still want good AC regardless of Armor of Agathys I'm sure. What do you think? Go sub-optimal for the aesthetic, or do you think it'll be un-fun to play if I don't go Dex?
If you are not planning to multiclass and still want to poke stuff in melee on the odd occasion then my suggestion is to use Flame Blade instead. Although it looks like a scimitar I am certain your DM would have no problems with you reskinning it to look like a longsword instead. The advantages are you can attack with your CHA, you save a feat because you no longer need weapon proficiency and you can combine it with Transmuted Spell metamagic to reflavor it even more if you do not like flaming swords.
I might do this for a sorcerer I might make soon for a possible upcoming campaign!
So I'm looking at playing a tiefling and not looking to multiclass. Eventually I could pick up proficiency in weapons with a feat, but I'm wondering, do I pretty much have to go dex-based melee? I'd love to use a longsword just for aesthetic, but that means probably having lower AC overall, which I'll still want good AC regardless of Armor of Agathys I'm sure. What do you think? Go sub-optimal for the aesthetic, or do you think it'll be un-fun to play if I don't go Dex?
If you are not planning to multiclass and still want to poke stuff in melee on the odd occasion then my suggestion is to use Flame Blade instead. Although it looks like a scimitar I am certain your DM would have no problems with you reskinning it to look like a longsword instead. The advantages are you can attack with your CHA, you save a feat because you no longer need weapon proficiency and you can combine it with Transmuted Spell metamagic to reflavor it even more if you do not like flaming swords.
Ooo not bad, not bad.
Quick thing: I'm noticing green flame blade/booming blade have a material component of a weapon "that costs at least 1sp."
RAW im not sure you could use either cantrip with Flame Blade, unless the DM was prepared to handwave it. It's a fairly reasonable thing for a DM to allow, but just remember to run it by them I suppose.
How does a Sorcerer that does not multiclass learn Armor of Agathys? Magic Initiate (Warlock) would do it, but is there another way that I am missing?
With respect to Flame Blade, note that it requires Concentration, and so not only does it occupy your Concentration slot, you also risk losing it when engaged in melee. In addition to the concern about being able to combine it with GFB and BB (wouldn't be allowed at my table), it cannot be used for Attacks of Opportunity, as it requires an Action to use, and AoOs are Reactions.
How does a Sorcerer that does not multiclass learn Armor of Agathys? Magic Initiate (Warlock) would do it, but is there another way that I am missing?
With respect to Flame Blade, note that it requires Concentration, and so not only does it occupy your Concentration slot, you also risk losing it when engaged in melee. In addition to the concern about being able to combine it with GFB and BB (wouldn't be allowed at my table), it cannot be used for Attacks of Opportunity, as it requires an Action to use, and AoOs are Reactions.
Just things to think about.
Armor of Agathys comes from being a Clockwork Soul, which allows you to select additional spells of the Abjuration or Transmutation schools from the sorcerer, Warlock, or wizard spell list (as part of the level 1 Clockwork Magic feature).
Also, I just double checked and Flame Blade does not require Concentration, it merely has a 10 minute duration.
*edit* wait no that last part is wrong, didn't see the "C" symbol. My bad.
How does a Sorcerer that does not multiclass learn Armor of Agathys? Magic Initiate (Warlock) would do it, but is there another way that I am missing?
With respect to Flame Blade, note that it requires Concentration, and so not only does it occupy your Concentration slot, you also risk losing it when engaged in melee. In addition to the concern about being able to combine it with GFB and BB (wouldn't be allowed at my table), it cannot be used for Attacks of Opportunity, as it requires an Action to use, and AoOs are Reactions.
Just things to think about.
Armor of Agathys comes from being a Clockwork Soul, which allows you to select additional spells of the Abjuration or Transmutation schools from the sorcerer, Warlock, or wizard spell list (as part of the level 1 Clockwork Magic feature).
Also, I just double checked and Flame Blade does not require Concentration, it merely has a 10 minute duration.
*edit* wait no that last part is wrong, didn't see the "C" symbol. My bad.
Armor of Agathys comes from being a Clockwork Soul, which allows you to select additional spells of the Abjuration or Transmutation schools from the sorcerer, Warlock, or wizard spell list (as part of the level 1 Clockwork Magic feature).
Thanks, I missed that. That's a really nice feature.
Was just reminded that the Flames of Phlegethos feat exists, which I think would work really well with this build. Pairs great with Green Flame Blade and Armor of Agathys (dishing out an extra 1d4 fire damage when hit by melee after using a fire spell, no reaction required), so I can maximize damage output and still have a reaction for Bastion of Law to negate damage, OR if I can stand to take the damage then once per long rest I can throw a Hellish Rebuke (from Infernal Legacy) on top of THAT to make the enemy really wish they hadn't hit me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm thinking of doing a clockwork sorcerer and certain abilities (mostly bastion of law) seem like it's got melee potential. I'd like to know if anyone's tried doing a melee focused sorcerer in general, or specifically a melee clockwork sorcerer? How do you generally go about it?
Ideally I'd like them to be more of a battlefield controler to compensate for some of the sorcerer's squishiness, but also because I find controllers fun. Also, ideally I would either not want to multiclass, OR multiclass as little as possible. I'd consider some rogue levels to get the most out of no multiattack. Though I could also be pursueded to do some fighter instead if I must.
What do people think?
At earlier levels you can replace one of your clockwork spells with armor of agathy's as it's an abjuration spell. Use your spell slots to convert into sorcery points which you can make into a big powerful spell slot, and cast armor of agathy's. Bam! Temp HP as well as being a danger to enemies engaging you in melee.
Transmuted spell on armor of agathy's allows you to overcome resistances and immunities.
Also shield is a must have spell for this build.
For weapon/armor proficiencies you can choose a race which give proficiency in weapons, or a fighter, paladin or Hexblade dip could work as well.
A 1 level dip into Order Domain Cleric (preferably at 2nd level) to go with Clockwork Soul Sorcerer would give what you are looking for. You get access to heavy armor, a bunch of useful spells and cantrips like Bless and Guidance. Voice of Authority will make any Rogues or to a lesser degree any hard hitting martial character in the party love you while giving you the feeling of being the one calling the shots.
Looking at Armor of Agathys, damn that might be all you need to do melee. Best part is you can upcast (20 temp hp and 20 damage per hit for a 4th level slot!), stack it with bastion of law, AND it leaves your concentration free for slow/haste, levitate, etc to lock enemies down, then you pack green flame blade and booming blade and you're basically there.
Mage armor/shield could be a cherry on top, but you'd need to make sure to cast MA in advance because you don't wanna start combat with two turns in a row of defensive buffs only for the party to kill the bad guy in that time.
Take minimum 3 levels of Paladin (oath of devotion) to get sacred weapon. Paladins are also CHA based and therefore easily to MC with a Sorcerer. It gives you all armor and weapon proficiencies if you start as a Paladin.
With 20 CHA and 20 STR and sacred weapon and bastion of law you will not be lower than 10 +5 (CHA Mod) +5 (STR Mod) +6 (Prof. at the end) = 26 minimum on attack rolls. Its more or less a guaranteed hit. (even Tarrasque and Tiamat "only" have 25 AC) Not sure if there are any Monsters with the Shield spell and 22 AC.
I think you mixed up Bastion of Law with Trance of Order which is the level 14 Sorcerer ability. This means your suggestion does not come online until level 17 at the earliest, a point in which most campaigns have long since ended.
Overall good advice, but don't you need to take Order Domain at level 1 to get Heavy Armor proficiency?
Nope, while Fighters and Paladins normally need you to take that class at level 1 for heavy armor proficiency, Clerics sidestep that little detail as they get it via their subclass feature.
I'm going to strongly disagree with that statement. The wording of Bonus Proficiency states "When you choose this Domain at first level." You're not choosing the domain at 1st level if you multiclass into it at level 2.
So by your argument if I don't take say Arcana Domain Clerics at character level 1 then I do not get proficiency in Arcana nor do I get the 2 wizard cantrips?
And oh my goodness if I take Tempest Domain at character level 2 not only do I miss out on heavy armor and martial weapon proficiencies I also lose the Wrath of the Storm ability? Because Wrath of the Storm says "Also at level 1" right after the part where you get armor and weapon proficiencies.
By that reasoning Clerics is a terrible class to multi into.
We can also say goodbye to all the Sorlocks that want to wear medium armor if they take Hexblade at 2nd level.
But thankfully this is not how the game works. Now of course you are free to express your opinions on this but RAW and RAI I am fairly certain supports my opinion just a little bit more.
Edit: Incidently I just tried making a multiclass right here on DND Beyond, starting first level Sorcerer and second level Cleric (Life) and guess what? My character got heavy armor proficiency. Then to make doubly sure I made a Sorcerer and multiclass into Fighter and nope no heavy armor proficiency there.
I ran into this problem of trying to make a melee sorcerer too.
Basically I wanted to do a guy with innate magic that he couldn't fully control that had multiple personalities, one of which was sort of a swashbuckiling whip-wielding guy. I wanted his magic to be like this creepy sort of out of control whispers thing, but also I wanted him to have sort of a magic-bandit persona that would wield shadow-blade. So ideally I wanted to pull off getting dissonant whispers, chaos bolt, wildmagic surge, and proficiency with whip and some sort of melee capacity.... which was basically impossible. The bladesinger could have been perfect for the melee aspect (and geting 2 atttacks and being able to use cantrips with it), but it didn't fit the uncontrolled magic vibe, the spell list didn't have stuff that fit the theme, and I wanted him to be cha-based. So I looked into a bard multiclass but weirdly you don't get the weapon proficiencies, unless you do three levels and pick college of swords, but at least you get dissonant whispers. Finally i looked at Warlock. A warlock dip could be good but I'm kinda stuck between the Old One who gets dissonant whispers and the hexblade for the weapons and armor and (if you go to level 2) the advantage on Con Saves with one of the invocations. The problem I ran into was that is that you can't really get your hexblade benefits with shadowblade, you gotta use your own pact weapon. Trying to make this character not suck has given me a serious headache, I might actually abandon the concept tbh.
Anyway a 1-dip into hexblade warlock could solve your armor and weapon proficiency problem anyway. Another solution is being an elf or variant half-elf and getting weapon versatility.
So I'm looking at playing a tiefling and not looking to multiclass. Eventually I could pick up proficiency in weapons with a feat, but I'm wondering, do I pretty much have to go dex-based melee? I'd love to use a longsword just for aesthetic, but that means probably having lower AC overall, which I'll still want good AC regardless of Armor of Agathys I'm sure. What do you think? Go sub-optimal for the aesthetic, or do you think it'll be un-fun to play if I don't go Dex?
If you are not planning to multiclass and still want to poke stuff in melee on the odd occasion then my suggestion is to use Flame Blade instead. Although it looks like a scimitar I am certain your DM would have no problems with you reskinning it to look like a longsword instead. The advantages are you can attack with your CHA, you save a feat because you no longer need weapon proficiency and you can combine it with Transmuted Spell metamagic to reflavor it even more if you do not like flaming swords.
Ooo not bad, not bad.
I might do this for a sorcerer I might make soon for a possible upcoming campaign!
Quick thing: I'm noticing green flame blade/booming blade have a material component of a weapon "that costs at least 1sp."
RAW im not sure you could use either cantrip with Flame Blade, unless the DM was prepared to handwave it. It's a fairly reasonable thing for a DM to allow, but just remember to run it by them I suppose.
How does a Sorcerer that does not multiclass learn Armor of Agathys? Magic Initiate (Warlock) would do it, but is there another way that I am missing?
With respect to Flame Blade, note that it requires Concentration, and so not only does it occupy your Concentration slot, you also risk losing it when engaged in melee. In addition to the concern about being able to combine it with GFB and BB (wouldn't be allowed at my table), it cannot be used for Attacks of Opportunity, as it requires an Action to use, and AoOs are Reactions.
Just things to think about.
Armor of Agathys comes from being a Clockwork Soul, which allows you to select additional spells of the Abjuration or Transmutation schools from the sorcerer, Warlock, or wizard spell list (as part of the level 1 Clockwork Magic feature).
Also, I just double checked and Flame Blade does not require Concentration, it merely has a 10 minute duration.*edit* wait no that last part is wrong, didn't see the "C" symbol. My bad.
Thanks, I missed that. That's a really nice feature.
Was just reminded that the Flames of Phlegethos feat exists, which I think would work really well with this build. Pairs great with Green Flame Blade and Armor of Agathys (dishing out an extra 1d4 fire damage when hit by melee after using a fire spell, no reaction required), so I can maximize damage output and still have a reaction for Bastion of Law to negate damage, OR if I can stand to take the damage then once per long rest I can throw a Hellish Rebuke (from Infernal Legacy) on top of THAT to make the enemy really wish they hadn't hit me.