I've never played a Sorcerer before, and before I do, I wanted to ask something that's never quite been clear for me regarding Metamagic... specifically, Distant Spell.
Does it only affect the range of where the spell can be cast from, or does it also affect the size of the spell. What I mean is, will it only allow you to shoot a Fireball 300ft instead of the usual 150ft, or will/can it also affect the radius of the blast, changing it from 20ft radius to 40ft? Or more prominently with the latter... with the likes of line spells like Lightning Bolt (changing it to 100ft long a line to 200ft), or spells that affect a certain area with a saving throw effect rather than a ranged attack roll, like Reverse Gravity (going from either 100ft radius to 200ft radius and/or 100ft high to 200ft high)
I mean that in a mutually exclusive way. EITHER the casting range OR the area of effect, NOT both (as that would be incredibly overpowered with some spells)
Why the class gets dissed a lot is because it requires planning which it looks like your doing, whilst others might run up a character and play then blame the class when it doesn't deliver like they thought. But make no mistake, Sorcs can do things no other class can match, if planned right. Hence choose your play-style, then sub-class & spells to support that play-style, then the metas to support those spells.
Distant Spell is a low tier meta, except for buffer/de-buffer play-style or running a Divine Soul and this is mainly because touch spells can be cast at 30ft with distant spell (Ie. “enhance ability’ at 30ft to help a team mate get out of a grapple with advantage on the roll, without you also having to get close to the grappler). The reason Divine Soul gets a mention is because when you add the cleric list to the sorc there are a lot more interesting touch spells to throw out @ 30ft (Inflict wounds, lesser res, protect from good/evil etc).
Out box thinking re distant spell (DM may need to approve):
Thunder Clap Cantrip – Now a 5 x 5 square not a 3x3 square. Catch 4 mods in this and max 8d6 total thunder damage (lvl5), not bad for a cantrip. Distort Value – Going shopping? Cast at 30ft away then as you approach the item “Oh, look at that dent and tear, I want a discount”. Earth Tremor (See Thunder clap) Gaseus Form – Break a friend/creature out of jail/shackles from 30ft away Incite Greed – Becomes an insanely good control spell when cast at 60ft (Pied Piper effect) Thunder Step – Becomes a useful 3rd lvl mini Dimension Door (180ft), of course you can now Dimension Door to 1000ft (just for giggles take Kayleth to the top of a cliff to jump off) Plane Shift – Speaking of Kayleth, rather than wait for everyone to spend 1 or 2 turns to hold hands, just say right, were going NOW! (30ft, or rather 60ft cube centered on you, for 1 sorc point). Campaign – Anything with ships and long range combat it may be worth taking for a blaster, especially with the feat SpellSniper.
None of this makes distant spell a clear top two choice, just a fun third choice. Your top two choices are normally between Twin, Quicken or Subtle (Subtle especially if playing the face of the party or a controller).
Finally, and apologies in advance (slight chance to derail) – RAW you cannot distant spell Counterspell, but the DM might still allow it.
The fact that you only get 2 metamagic options until you hit 10th level is a huge downside, but that is easily fixed with getting the almost-required feat metamagic adept.
two more options plus two more sorcerery points is huge.
Also, another fantastic use of distant spell is with Vortex warp. Since that spell uses a 90 ft range in all directions, using distant spell you could theoretically (if you have proper positioning and they fail a con save) transport a single target 360 feet. Imagine seeing the enemy wizard in his tower, and then all of a sudden he's on the ground outside, being the meat in a barbarian and fighter sandwich.
The fact that you only get 2 metamagic options until you hit 10th level is a huge downside, but that is easily fixed with getting the almost-required feat metamagic adept.
two more options plus two more sorcerery points is huge.
Also, another fantastic use of distant spell is with Vortex warp. Since that spell uses a 90 ft range in all directions, using distant spell you could theoretically (if you have proper positioning and they fail a con save) transport a single target 360 feet. Imagine seeing the enemy wizard in his tower, and then all of a sudden he's on the ground outside, being the meat in a barbarian and fighter sandwich.
Holy feckballs I forgot about Vortex warp! There are some insane uses of that as a lvl2 spell and not just on the offense in combat, both defense and out of combat stuff to. In fact, I sense a new thread appearing rather than derail this one :)
Don't go in looking just to get super long range spells. While that would be nice that's not how you need to think of it. Instead look at the ranges of your shorter spells.
A spell with a range of 30 feet (EX: Blindness/deafness) can be cast at 60 feet. This means you'll be able to cast it without exposing yourself to immediate melee counter-attack from your target in most cases.
A spell with a range of 60 feet (EX: Polymorph) can now be cast at 120 feet. This means you can cast it while remaining outside the realm of most counter-spells.
Counterspell itself can have its own range doubled to deal with 120 foot range spells.
Spells with longer ranges can now also effectively hit anywheres on the battlefield unless, for some reason, you're on a humongous map.
Don't think of things like this in terms of how much extra damage it can provide but rather in terms of how much extra flexibility it can offer you. A metamagic like transmuted spell (changes the element of your spell) is usually useless in regards to damage, but if you're in a campaign in which your GM LOVES fielding foes with either particular strengths and weaknessess it can be exceedingly useful.
Finally, and apologies in advance (slight chance to derail) – RAW you cannot distant spell Counterspell, but the DM might still allow it.
Just copying this here again, just in case the DM sticks with RAW don't be surprised. Counterspell has a visual component that you must see within 60ft before you trigger counterspell, you cant apply a meta until you are casting the spell hence, by RAW, you cant distant spell counterspell.
Sorta makes sense as this is a reaction trigger (split second) in which you decide not only if someone is casting a spell (maybe with just a verbal component) but a spell you want to counterspell. Its also why you cant counterspell someone 10ft away if they are behind a bookshelf, or round a corner, or in darkness and not dim light/light, or invisible.
But again always down to the DM, their choice what to allow in the end.
Finally, and apologies in advance (slight chance to derail) – RAW you cannot distant spell Counterspell, but the DM might still allow it.
Just copying this here again, just in case the DM sticks with RAW don't be surprised. Counterspell has a visual component that you must see within 60ft before you trigger counterspell, you cant apply a meta until you are casting the spell hence, by RAW, you cant distant spell counterspell.
Sorta makes sense as this is a reaction trigger (split second) in which you decide not only if someone is casting a spell (maybe with just a verbal component) but a spell you want to counterspell. Its also why you cant counterspell someone 10ft away if they are behind a bookshelf, or round a corner, or in darkness and not dim light/light, or invisible.
But again always down to the DM, their choice what to allow in the end.
Fair enough. My GM allowed it but he was relatively relaxed with the rules. I would say it's within the realm of 'ask your GM' since, if so, it can be a major boon to your counter-spelling game.
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I've never played a Sorcerer before, and before I do, I wanted to ask something that's never quite been clear for me regarding Metamagic... specifically, Distant Spell.
Does it only affect the range of where the spell can be cast from, or does it also affect the size of the spell. What I mean is, will it only allow you to shoot a Fireball 300ft instead of the usual 150ft, or will/can it also affect the radius of the blast, changing it from 20ft radius to 40ft? Or more prominently with the latter... with the likes of line spells like Lightning Bolt (changing it to 100ft long a line to 200ft), or spells that affect a certain area with a saving throw effect rather than a ranged attack roll, like Reverse Gravity (going from either 100ft radius to 200ft radius and/or 100ft high to 200ft high)
I mean that in a mutually exclusive way. EITHER the casting range OR the area of effect, NOT both (as that would be incredibly overpowered with some spells)
Many thanks.
It only affects the range.
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Ok, cool. Thanks for clarifying :)
If your new to Sorcerer, main advice:
Play-style – Spells/Subclass – Metas.
Why the class gets dissed a lot is because it requires planning which it looks like your doing, whilst others might run up a character and play then blame the class when it doesn't deliver like they thought. But make no mistake, Sorcs can do things no other class can match, if planned right. Hence choose your play-style, then sub-class & spells to support that play-style, then the metas to support those spells.
Distant Spell is a low tier meta, except for buffer/de-buffer play-style or running a Divine Soul and this is mainly because touch spells can be cast at 30ft with distant spell (Ie. “enhance ability’ at 30ft to help a team mate get out of a grapple with advantage on the roll, without you also having to get close to the grappler). The reason Divine Soul gets a mention is because when you add the cleric list to the sorc there are a lot more interesting touch spells to throw out @ 30ft (Inflict wounds, lesser res, protect from good/evil etc).
Out box thinking re distant spell (DM may need to approve):
Thunder Clap Cantrip – Now a 5 x 5 square not a 3x3 square. Catch 4 mods in this and max 8d6 total thunder damage (lvl5), not bad for a cantrip.
Distort Value – Going shopping? Cast at 30ft away then as you approach the item “Oh, look at that dent and tear, I want a discount”.
Earth Tremor (See Thunder clap)
Gaseus Form – Break a friend/creature out of jail/shackles from 30ft away
Incite Greed – Becomes an insanely good control spell when cast at 60ft (Pied Piper effect)
Thunder Step – Becomes a useful 3rd lvl mini Dimension Door (180ft), of course you can now Dimension Door to 1000ft (just for giggles take Kayleth to the top of a cliff to jump off)
Plane Shift – Speaking of Kayleth, rather than wait for everyone to spend 1 or 2 turns to hold hands, just say right, were going NOW! (30ft, or rather 60ft cube centered on you, for 1 sorc point).
Campaign – Anything with ships and long range combat it may be worth taking for a blaster, especially with the feat SpellSniper.
None of this makes distant spell a clear top two choice, just a fun third choice. Your top two choices are normally between Twin, Quicken or Subtle (Subtle especially if playing the face of the party or a controller).
Finally, and apologies in advance (slight chance to derail) – RAW you cannot distant spell Counterspell, but the DM might still allow it.
The fact that you only get 2 metamagic options until you hit 10th level is a huge downside, but that is easily fixed with getting the almost-required feat metamagic adept.
two more options plus two more sorcerery points is huge.
Also, another fantastic use of distant spell is with Vortex warp. Since that spell uses a 90 ft range in all directions, using distant spell you could theoretically (if you have proper positioning and they fail a con save) transport a single target 360 feet. Imagine seeing the enemy wizard in his tower, and then all of a sudden he's on the ground outside, being the meat in a barbarian and fighter sandwich.
Holy feckballs I forgot about Vortex warp! There are some insane uses of that as a lvl2 spell and not just on the offense in combat, both defense and out of combat stuff to. In fact, I sense a new thread appearing rather than derail this one :)
Don't go in looking just to get super long range spells. While that would be nice that's not how you need to think of it. Instead look at the ranges of your shorter spells.
A spell with a range of 30 feet (EX: Blindness/deafness) can be cast at 60 feet. This means you'll be able to cast it without exposing yourself to immediate melee counter-attack from your target in most cases.
A spell with a range of 60 feet (EX: Polymorph) can now be cast at 120 feet. This means you can cast it while remaining outside the realm of most counter-spells.
Counterspell itself can have its own range doubled to deal with 120 foot range spells.
Spells with longer ranges can now also effectively hit anywheres on the battlefield unless, for some reason, you're on a humongous map.
Don't think of things like this in terms of how much extra damage it can provide but rather in terms of how much extra flexibility it can offer you. A metamagic like transmuted spell (changes the element of your spell) is usually useless in regards to damage, but if you're in a campaign in which your GM LOVES fielding foes with either particular strengths and weaknessess it can be exceedingly useful.
Just copying this here again, just in case the DM sticks with RAW don't be surprised. Counterspell has a visual component that you must see within 60ft before you trigger counterspell, you cant apply a meta until you are casting the spell hence, by RAW, you cant distant spell counterspell.
Sorta makes sense as this is a reaction trigger (split second) in which you decide not only if someone is casting a spell (maybe with just a verbal component) but a spell you want to counterspell. Its also why you cant counterspell someone 10ft away if they are behind a bookshelf, or round a corner, or in darkness and not dim light/light, or invisible.
But again always down to the DM, their choice what to allow in the end.
Can you double twin a spell? Like twinning firebolt twice?
No. You can only apply one meta-magic to a spell at a time. As a result the best you could do is twinning a firebolt then quick-casting a third.
Fair enough. My GM allowed it but he was relatively relaxed with the rules. I would say it's within the realm of 'ask your GM' since, if so, it can be a major boon to your counter-spelling game.