I am considering swapping one of my 5th level psionic spells, Sending, for either Enemies Abound or Tongues. Enemies Abound could be fun, if not always effective, and would benefit greatly from the subtle casting feature of psionic spells. However, Tongues would increase the utility of two other spells I plan on taking--namely, Suggestion and Mass Suggestion--since my languages are limited to Common and Deep Speech. Moreover, I am not certain but would think that Tongues could enhance Telepathic Speech, which requires a shared language. Which of the two spells (or what other spell) would others select?
Hypnotic pattern is for my money the best spell at level 3 and it fits with the whole mind control theme I was going for. Clairvoyance is a great way to gather information.
I was planning to take Hypnotic Pattern as a sorcerer spell. It is illusion and would not qualify as a Psionic Spell choice.
On reading the description for Enemies Abound, I have some further questions/reservations. The spell's description states that the affected target "must choose [its] target at random from among the creatures it can see within range of the attack, spell, or other ability it’s using." How do others interpret this in their games? If the target is a melee combatant, then it is unclear to me what happens if the Enemies Abound takes effect when no "enemies" are within 5' of the target (i.e., the range of most melee attacks). Does the target move to a randomly selected "enemy," or does the target get to act normally since no "enemies" are in range? Additionally, this interpretation would suggest that initiative becomes critical when casting this spell. The caster would want the target to be affected when within 5' of one of its allies and preferably not within 5' of any party member (i.e., at the very beginning of combat). Once a melee combatant moves to attack a party member, the probability of it selecting one of its allies for attack after being affected by Enemies Abound would be much lower. In my experience, unless the number of mobs greatly outnumbers the number of party members, mobs that are melee combatants tend to spread out rather than gang up on a single party member.
I was planning to take Hypnotic Pattern as a sorcerer spell. It is illusion and would not qualify as a Psionic Spell choice.
On reading the description for Enemies Abound, I have some further questions/reservations. The spell's description states that the affected target "must choose [its] target at random from among the creatures it can see within range of the attack, spell, or other ability it’s using." How do others interpret this in their games? If the target is a melee combatant, then it is unclear to me what happens if the Enemies Abound takes effect when no "enemies" are within 5' of the target (i.e., the range of most melee attacks). Does the target move to a randomly selected "enemy," or does the target get to act normally since no "enemies" are in range? Additionally, this interpretation would suggest that initiative becomes critical when casting this spell. The caster would want the target to be affected when within 5' of one of its allies and preferably not within 5' of any party member (i.e., at the very beginning of combat). Once a melee combatant moves to attack a party member, the probability of it selecting one of its allies for attack after being affected by Enemies Abound would be much lower. In my experience, unless the number of mobs greatly outnumbers the number of party members, mobs that are melee combatants tend to spread out rather than gang up on a single party member.
Ooh geez you are correct! I thought it was enchantment. Now that I'm looking at it, I actually took it as a normal spell anyway. I actually took clairvoyance and kept sending. There aren't a ton of great options for 3rd level spells.
Aberrant mind really does not have many great swap choices with 3rd level spells. 4th/5th has some good options but other than telepathic bond they are rarely better than what you got in the first place. Clockwork makes out like a bandit at all levels, and probably has better class features. Aberrant is just cooler though. I was considering swapping out something at 3rd for tongues as its pretty useful, but sending is just fun. And as bad as hunger of hadar is, its still better than the 3rd divination/enchantment options at least at and around the level you gain it, since it has no level scaling it eventually isn't worth it though it is evocative.
4th level spells has arcane eye which is great, and psychic lance, but I'm not sure either is better than evards, or summon aberrant. But they are good enough if they fit your character they are a great option.
5th level telepathic bond is a easy drop for me but our party has a soul knife and we already have some telepathy. and it has some great spell options, but I would not drop telekinesis personally its just too much fun. But if going for more telepthay vs telekinesis type spells i could see dropping both for like dominate and modify memory. Hold monster, synaptic static, modify memory, dominate person, scrying all great options. If you went twin spell hold monster/dominate person/modify memory might be the better choices.
Tongues can be ultra useful at times, but most intelligent enemies can speak common. To be honest Tongues is a spell I like to have on a scroll or maybe a wizard who can long rest and then prepare it if you need it. Enemies Abound sounds great thematically and sounds fun but I've never actually used it.
I think Fear is hands down the most powerful spell of 3rd level because there is no way to get out of it without breaking line of sight or the caster losing concentration. Even if they can break line of sight, forcing them to dash on their turn is going to end up burning at least 2 actions.
Hypnotic Pattern can be good too, especially against unintelligent enemies. I think it is a distant second to Fear as a control spell though because smart enemies can free everyone who failed a save in a round or two (as long as at one of them is not charmed) and because damage breaks it. So it steals a lot of actions in the round it lands, but it does not usually linger for much longer than that and it does completely end the fight for those that fail like Fear usually does.
Sadly both fear and hypnotic pattern are illusion spells so don't qualify for swapping out, the designers really did not like the enchantment or divination schools.
Sadly both fear and hypnotic pattern are illusion spells so don't qualify for swapping out, the designers really did not like the enchantment or divination schools.
But they are both already on your spell list. You can take either of them in additon to your psoinic spell.
I would switch the 5th level selections to Tongues and Catnap. Tongues excels at enabling your interactions with your world with words and not just swords and Catnap can be incredible when the party is under a lot of duress without much time to catch up. Neither one is going to be used all that often, but provide great situational utility.
One great thing about tongues in a campaign is subtly using it when the opposition is under the impression none of the party speak their language. Think of how many times a GM has asked for a language that the party does not have, or even just been working some RP in and had the other group/person change language to issue some minor subterfuge that would make it easier to get through the encounter. Also, some tough opposition can be RP'd down if they think you share a common tongue and will look more favorable on the group as a whole.
If your campaign does not have these moments and everyone ALWAYS speaks in common, then the spell is trash. I have been in both types campaigns, one feels invaluable and the other where it just sits there chewing at your known spells. Honestly, there is nothing worse than a useless utility spell on a character sheet.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Another option if your dm is cooperative is the magic item Psi Crystal. It gives a similar effect to tongues at all times and it does not require a bonus action to activate like your subclass telepathy does. With it you can match the range of your existing telepathy even if you dumped intelligence but if your intelligence is 12 or more you could double your range. It obviously combos well with Headband of Intellect which would give you 4 times the range and probably match most of your spells so you dont need to get close to cast. These are both uncommon so commonly purchasable or craftable by an artificer. You could also consider the magic item Ring of Animal Influence
I was planning to take Hypnotic Pattern as a sorcerer spell. It is illusion and would not qualify as a Psionic Spell choice.
On reading the description for Enemies Abound, I have some further questions/reservations. The spell's description states that the affected target "must choose [its] target at random from among the creatures it can see within range of the attack, spell, or other ability it’s using." How do others interpret this in their games? If the target is a melee combatant, then it is unclear to me what happens if the Enemies Abound takes effect when no "enemies" are within 5' of the target (i.e., the range of most melee attacks). Does the target move to a randomly selected "enemy," or does the target get to act normally since no "enemies" are in range? Additionally, this interpretation would suggest that initiative becomes critical when casting this spell. The caster would want the target to be affected when within 5' of one of its allies and preferably not within 5' of any party member (i.e., at the very beginning of combat). Once a melee combatant moves to attack a party member, the probability of it selecting one of its allies for attack after being affected by Enemies Abound would be much lower. In my experience, unless the number of mobs greatly outnumbers the number of party members, mobs that are melee combatants tend to spread out rather than gang up on a single party member.
As for enemies abound it makes the target see all creatures as enemies and it behaves as if it were surrounded by how ever many creatures are near by. Basically it switches it's faction to insane loner. In practice that might mean fleeing, attacking or surrendering which is up to the Dm. Notably creatures don't have to just make attacks but can use any means available to them which means unlike crown of madness it could cause a spell caster or similar creature to use an aoe ability. It could be quite fun to subtle or psionic cast this on some one in a busy town, they may not attack people but simply have a freak out as to them the entire town may have appeared to turn into zombies or be after them. That would make one hell of an intimidation check if you wanted to scare some one. It also has interactions with flanking, sneak attack and pack tactics.
On reading the description for Enemies Abound, I have some further questions/reservations. The spell's description states that the affected target "must choose [its] target at random from among the creatures it can see within range of the attack, spell, or other ability it’s using." How do others interpret this in their games? If the target is a melee combatant, then it is unclear to me what happens if the Enemies Abound takes effect when no "enemies" are within 5' of the target (i.e., the range of most melee attacks). Does the target move to a randomly selected "enemy," or does the target get to act normally since no "enemies" are in range? Additionally, this interpretation would suggest that initiative becomes critical when casting this spell. The caster would want the target to be affected when within 5' of one of its allies and preferably not within 5' of any party member (i.e., at the very beginning of combat). Once a melee combatant moves to attack a party member, the probability of it selecting one of its allies for attack after being affected by Enemies Abound would be much lower. In my experience, unless the number of mobs greatly outnumbers the number of party members, mobs that are melee combatants tend to spread out rather than gang up on a single party member.
Enemies Abound is only useful if you are facing a large group of enemies who are all lumped together, and even then its still got a small chance of not working correctly. Its only worth casting in rare social situations (either subtlety via metamagic or your psionic sorcery feature), or if you encounter a large group of enemies. I say large group because if you have a 5 person party and there are 3 bad guys, the odds are that the target still may attack the party. Casting it on a single bad guy all alone is useless.
I took this spell and was super excited to use it, but several encounters have now passed and I realize that it may have been a poor choice. We just don't face large parties of bad guys, and the few times we do they are all swarms of some low HP creature that doesn't feel worthy of a 3rd level spell slot. I do want to maybe try it in a social situation just to see what happens, but who knows when that may come up.
I don't blame the people who recommended it to me though, because on paper this spell rocks...Intel save, no every-turn save to stop it...it sounds super cool but it just doesn't seem as useful as I thought it was.
All that being said though...I think I may have used tounges a few times if I would have taken that, but it wouldn't have done any real good for me.
The random element of enemies of abound makes it a bit dm dependent. As there's no random generation method like a dice roll there strictly speaking does not have to be a relationship between the number of allies v enemies and the probability it attacks an ally or enemy. In practice the DM simply chooses a target for the creature by what ever method they feel appropriate and that may be as a simple as them deciding to switch every second round or simply choosing who ever they think would be best for them to fight e.g the closest, least armored or most dangerous looking. I'd generally advise DMs to simply run the monsters as if they treated everything as an enemy, i.e a blind rage, paranoid or what ever
Similarly the duration is often dm dependent. A big problem with the spell is actually this part "Each time the target takes damage, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success." which means that as the number of attacks it becomes more likely to break and many creatures have multi attack or attack in large groups. Of course the number of attacks it receives depend on the dm as just like players could, monsters could choose not to fight an ally, try to target the caster instead or even be under command of the effected creature and be effected too.
Depending how a dm treats it this spell can be as much of a combat end-er as any other third level spell or it could do almost nothing.
Any way good uses for enemies abound are
Using subtle spell to start a fight. Either to sow mistrust, create a distraction or start a fight with an advantage.
To co-opt a heavy hitter. Making an aoe hit the enemies and you instead of just you is great .
To shut down support . Creatures effected by enemies abound would not reasonably maintain buff spells or cast healing on other creatures.
I like the flavor of enemies abound and took it for my AM sorcerer.
I think the best use is when the enemy isn't aware of your party. It has a 120 ft range, so twinning it to create chaos among the enemies before attacking is effective and fun.
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I am considering swapping one of my 5th level psionic spells, Sending, for either Enemies Abound or Tongues. Enemies Abound could be fun, if not always effective, and would benefit greatly from the subtle casting feature of psionic spells. However, Tongues would increase the utility of two other spells I plan on taking--namely, Suggestion and Mass Suggestion--since my languages are limited to Common and Deep Speech. Moreover, I am not certain but would think that Tongues could enhance Telepathic Speech, which requires a shared language. Which of the two spells (or what other spell) would others select?
I took hypnotic pattern and Clairvoyance.
Hypnotic pattern is for my money the best spell at level 3 and it fits with the whole mind control theme I was going for. Clairvoyance is a great way to gather information.
Sending is situational but kinda cool.
I was planning to take Hypnotic Pattern as a sorcerer spell. It is illusion and would not qualify as a Psionic Spell choice.
On reading the description for Enemies Abound, I have some further questions/reservations. The spell's description states that the affected target "must choose [its] target at random from among the creatures it can see within range of the attack, spell, or other ability it’s using." How do others interpret this in their games? If the target is a melee combatant, then it is unclear to me what happens if the Enemies Abound takes effect when no "enemies" are within 5' of the target (i.e., the range of most melee attacks). Does the target move to a randomly selected "enemy," or does the target get to act normally since no "enemies" are in range? Additionally, this interpretation would suggest that initiative becomes critical when casting this spell. The caster would want the target to be affected when within 5' of one of its allies and preferably not within 5' of any party member (i.e., at the very beginning of combat). Once a melee combatant moves to attack a party member, the probability of it selecting one of its allies for attack after being affected by Enemies Abound would be much lower. In my experience, unless the number of mobs greatly outnumbers the number of party members, mobs that are melee combatants tend to spread out rather than gang up on a single party member.
Ooh geez you are correct! I thought it was enchantment. Now that I'm looking at it, I actually took it as a normal spell anyway. I actually took clairvoyance and kept sending. There aren't a ton of great options for 3rd level spells.
Aberrant mind really does not have many great swap choices with 3rd level spells. 4th/5th has some good options but other than telepathic bond they are rarely better than what you got in the first place. Clockwork makes out like a bandit at all levels, and probably has better class features. Aberrant is just cooler though. I was considering swapping out something at 3rd for tongues as its pretty useful, but sending is just fun. And as bad as hunger of hadar is, its still better than the 3rd divination/enchantment options at least at and around the level you gain it, since it has no level scaling it eventually isn't worth it though it is evocative.
4th level spells has arcane eye which is great, and psychic lance, but I'm not sure either is better than evards, or summon aberrant. But they are good enough if they fit your character they are a great option.
5th level telepathic bond is a easy drop for me but our party has a soul knife and we already have some telepathy. and it has some great spell options, but I would not drop telekinesis personally its just too much fun. But if going for more telepthay vs telekinesis type spells i could see dropping both for like dominate and modify memory. Hold monster, synaptic static, modify memory, dominate person, scrying all great options. If you went twin spell hold monster/dominate person/modify memory might be the better choices.
Tongues can be ultra useful at times, but most intelligent enemies can speak common. To be honest Tongues is a spell I like to have on a scroll or maybe a wizard who can long rest and then prepare it if you need it. Enemies Abound sounds great thematically and sounds fun but I've never actually used it.
I think Fear is hands down the most powerful spell of 3rd level because there is no way to get out of it without breaking line of sight or the caster losing concentration. Even if they can break line of sight, forcing them to dash on their turn is going to end up burning at least 2 actions.
Hypnotic Pattern can be good too, especially against unintelligent enemies. I think it is a distant second to Fear as a control spell though because smart enemies can free everyone who failed a save in a round or two (as long as at one of them is not charmed) and because damage breaks it. So it steals a lot of actions in the round it lands, but it does not usually linger for much longer than that and it does completely end the fight for those that fail like Fear usually does.
Sadly both fear and hypnotic pattern are illusion spells so don't qualify for swapping out, the designers really did not like the enchantment or divination schools.
But they are both already on your spell list. You can take either of them in additon to your psoinic spell.
A lot of higher tier creatures (e.g., fiends, giants, elementals, aberrations) do not speak common.
I would switch the 5th level selections to Tongues and Catnap. Tongues excels at enabling your interactions with your world with words and not just swords and Catnap can be incredible when the party is under a lot of duress without much time to catch up. Neither one is going to be used all that often, but provide great situational utility.
One great thing about tongues in a campaign is subtly using it when the opposition is under the impression none of the party speak their language. Think of how many times a GM has asked for a language that the party does not have, or even just been working some RP in and had the other group/person change language to issue some minor subterfuge that would make it easier to get through the encounter. Also, some tough opposition can be RP'd down if they think you share a common tongue and will look more favorable on the group as a whole.
If your campaign does not have these moments and everyone ALWAYS speaks in common, then the spell is trash. I have been in both types campaigns, one feels invaluable and the other where it just sits there chewing at your known spells. Honestly, there is nothing worse than a useless utility spell on a character sheet.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Another option if your dm is cooperative is the magic item Psi Crystal. It gives a similar effect to tongues at all times and it does not require a bonus action to activate like your subclass telepathy does. With it you can match the range of your existing telepathy even if you dumped intelligence but if your intelligence is 12 or more you could double your range. It obviously combos well with Headband of Intellect which would give you 4 times the range and probably match most of your spells so you dont need to get close to cast. These are both uncommon so commonly purchasable or craftable by an artificer. You could also consider the magic item Ring of Animal Influence
As for enemies abound it makes the target see all creatures as enemies and it behaves as if it were surrounded by how ever many creatures are near by. Basically it switches it's faction to insane loner. In practice that might mean fleeing, attacking or surrendering which is up to the Dm. Notably creatures don't have to just make attacks but can use any means available to them which means unlike crown of madness it could cause a spell caster or similar creature to use an aoe ability. It could be quite fun to subtle or psionic cast this on some one in a busy town, they may not attack people but simply have a freak out as to them the entire town may have appeared to turn into zombies or be after them. That would make one hell of an intimidation check if you wanted to scare some one. It also has interactions with flanking, sneak attack and pack tactics.
Enemies Abound is only useful if you are facing a large group of enemies who are all lumped together, and even then its still got a small chance of not working correctly. Its only worth casting in rare social situations (either subtlety via metamagic or your psionic sorcery feature), or if you encounter a large group of enemies. I say large group because if you have a 5 person party and there are 3 bad guys, the odds are that the target still may attack the party. Casting it on a single bad guy all alone is useless.
I took this spell and was super excited to use it, but several encounters have now passed and I realize that it may have been a poor choice. We just don't face large parties of bad guys, and the few times we do they are all swarms of some low HP creature that doesn't feel worthy of a 3rd level spell slot. I do want to maybe try it in a social situation just to see what happens, but who knows when that may come up.
I don't blame the people who recommended it to me though, because on paper this spell rocks...Intel save, no every-turn save to stop it...it sounds super cool but it just doesn't seem as useful as I thought it was.
All that being said though...I think I may have used tounges a few times if I would have taken that, but it wouldn't have done any real good for me.
The random element of enemies of abound makes it a bit dm dependent. As there's no random generation method like a dice roll there strictly speaking does not have to be a relationship between the number of allies v enemies and the probability it attacks an ally or enemy. In practice the DM simply chooses a target for the creature by what ever method they feel appropriate and that may be as a simple as them deciding to switch every second round or simply choosing who ever they think would be best for them to fight e.g the closest, least armored or most dangerous looking. I'd generally advise DMs to simply run the monsters as if they treated everything as an enemy, i.e a blind rage, paranoid or what ever
Similarly the duration is often dm dependent. A big problem with the spell is actually this part "Each time the target takes damage, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success." which means that as the number of attacks it becomes more likely to break and many creatures have multi attack or attack in large groups. Of course the number of attacks it receives depend on the dm as just like players could, monsters could choose not to fight an ally, try to target the caster instead or even be under command of the effected creature and be effected too.
Depending how a dm treats it this spell can be as much of a combat end-er as any other third level spell or it could do almost nothing.
Any way good uses for enemies abound are
I like the flavor of enemies abound and took it for my AM sorcerer.
I think the best use is when the enemy isn't aware of your party. It has a 120 ft range, so twinning it to create chaos among the enemies before attacking is effective and fun.