I play on a Westmarch Discord server. And I had an idea for a crazy build. A few things first:
We use a custom array: 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 9
All official published races and classes are available, including Legacy versions (so EGtM is allowed, CR is not)
Characters start at 3 and use scheduled milestone leveling (it takes about 3 weeks to get to 9, 7 weeks to get to 13, and 5 months to get to 20)
High-level play is supported, with DMG epic boons available as post-20 "advancement"
1 long rest per irl day, 3 short rests per long rest
Most magic items are available for purchase (but tier locked). No cap on number of total items, but max 2 of any nonconsumable. ASI tomes are 1/stat
Strict adherence to RAW, with no homebrew
And now to the build:
My basic idea here is to build an Int-based Mizz sorcerer that plays like a wizard: Race: TBD Class: Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Wizard (Divination or Chronurgy) 2/Sorcerer (Lunar or Clockwork) 17 STR 9, DEX 10 , CON 12, INT 20 (18+2), WIS 13 (12+1), CHA 14
Starting with Knowledge Cleric gives medium armor prof, access to the cleric spell list, and most importantly Arcana expertise for the Mizzium Apparatus
Wizard is for access to the Wizard spell list. We will be casting most spells as Wizard spells through the Mizz so that we can use Int as our spellcasting ability. The subclass will be either Divination or Chrono, as we want to have either Portent or Chronal Shift for those Arcana checks.
Lunar would be primarily for the Lunar Boons. My plan is to use attunement for Mizzium Apparatus, Shadowfell Shard, and then either Earth/Air/Law/Chaos Shard. Being able to get free/discount metamagic uses to trigger the shards seems useful. Clockwork would be primarily for Trance of Order, as a way to eventually guarantee a minimum Arcana roll of 29 when casting high-level spells through the Mizz. The expanded spell list of either is largely irrelevant, since we will have full access to the wizard, sorcerer, and cleric spell lists at all times.
Feats definitely include Lucky, Metamagic Adept, and Ritual Casting (Wizard). Still trying to figure out the others.
Suggestions on race? Feats? Subclass choice?
Again, the goal is essentially to have a character that plays mostly like a wizard in terms of spellcasting but has the metamagic of a full sorcerer (with the cleric spell list as a cherry on top.)
You can't dip one level into a class to get access to their entire spell list for all levels.
you treat a multiclass character as if it were a single class character for the sake of spells. so you prepare wizard spells as if you were a level 1 wizard.
The multiclass spell slots you have would be like a level 20 caster, but you won't have access to wizard and cleric spells of high level.
The dip in cleric to get med armor can be nice tho
You need a spell slot of the appropriate level for the spell you wish to cast. Unless you are counting your cleric spell levels you could not cast above a first level wizard spell. DM call but I would rule it is not possible to use cleric slots.
The spell you choose must be on your class's spell list and of a level for which you have a spell slot
Except with multiclassing you forget that you lose class specific spell spell slots, The spell you choose must be on your classes spell list. easy enough to meet that requirement. The second part is And of a level of which you have a spell slot for. again class specific spell slots are not a thing with multi-classing aside from warlock pact slots and even those are treated as normal slots unless directed by the specific ability ie divine smite can use warlock pact slots however eldritch smite can only use warlock pact slots. There is nothing here that prevents what he is trying to do that is why the mizzium apparatus is a character defining item. https://5thsrd.org/rules/multiclassing/ I'm sure you can find the appropriate pages in the relevant books aswell. However rules as written this is a known feature of the apparatus. This is also why you can obtain 9th level spell slots by multiclassing but not know a 9th level spell. The apparatus can let you attempt to cast it aslong as you have the slot and it's on your classes list.
Tl:Dr the mizzium apparatus let's you attempt to cast it aslong as you have the spell slots and it's on your class list. It does not require class specific levels. That is why a dip and full Caster levels does work.
From a roleplay perspective, go for it. But from a min-max perspective, it is very unlikely to be worth taking cleric and wizard levels for your sorcerer. It makes a LOT of sense to take ONE level of either Wizard or Cleric, it helps Sorcerer a lot. But taking both makes very little sense.
I like to think of it as comparing what you are getting for giving things up.
17 levels of Sorcerer, this is what you get for taking more levels:
Each level you get +1 Sorcerer point. 17-20 is not such a big difference. HP is a wash. But by not taking your 18th level of Sorcerer you give up your last subclass ability. For clockwork, it is 100 hp of healing, instant repair and a dispel magic on all spells of 6th level or less (1/day or 7 sp). That is pretty good. For Lunar it is a variable ability.
By not taking your 19th, you are giving up a feat. Valuable, but not as valuable as say Divination Portents.
By giving up your 20th you are giving up 4 sp recovery every short rest. This is weak. well worth giving up stuff.
If you take 1 level of Cleric you get 3 cleric cantrips, your domain ability and Wis modifier +1 first level cleric spells known. This frees up your 15 sorcerer spells known to be divided up among all your other sorcerer levels. Note, be sure to forget/switch out all first level sorcerer spells BEFORE you take your level of Cleric.
Taking a 2nd level of Cleric is questionably worth it - you only get a Channel Divinity (most of which are worthless at 20th level considering you only have 2 levels of cleric) and a single extra first level spell known.
Taking 1 level of Wizard gets you 3 wizard cantrips, the Int modifier +1 first level wizard spells preparable, AND the ability to ritually cast the 8 1st level ritual wizard spells (once you have put them into your spell book). That includes Find Familiar, Detect Magic, and Identify.
Taking a 2nd level of Wizard gets you +1 more prepareable wizard spell, two free wizard spells learned (saves a bit of money, but not much), AND the Arcane subclass ability. DIviniation portents are definitely worth it. The Chronal shifts are nowhere near as good, the init bonus helps a bit.
Taking one level: Cleric is slightly better if you are only getting 1 level, because some good Domain ability that is not dependent on cleric level (Twilight....)
Taking 2 levels: 2 levels of Divination Wizard is your best bet. Portents are a game changer. Far better than the other choices (2 of Chrono, 2 of cleric, 1 cleric/1wizard).
Taking 3 levels: Not worth it. Giving up you last Subclass ability is not worth a 3rd level of Wizard (gives you 2nd level spell slots of Wizard) nor 1 of cleric.
I strongly suggest taking 18 levels of Sorcerer and 2 levels of Divination Wizard.
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I play on a Westmarch Discord server. And I had an idea for a crazy build. A few things first:
And now to the build:
My basic idea here is to build an Int-based Mizz sorcerer that plays like a wizard:
Race: TBD
Class: Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Wizard (Divination or Chronurgy) 2/Sorcerer (Lunar or Clockwork) 17
STR 9, DEX 10 , CON 12, INT 20 (18+2), WIS 13 (12+1), CHA 14
Starting with Knowledge Cleric gives medium armor prof, access to the cleric spell list, and most importantly Arcana expertise for the Mizzium Apparatus
Wizard is for access to the Wizard spell list. We will be casting most spells as Wizard spells through the Mizz so that we can use Int as our spellcasting ability. The subclass will be either Divination or Chrono, as we want to have either Portent or Chronal Shift for those Arcana checks.
Lunar would be primarily for the Lunar Boons. My plan is to use attunement for Mizzium Apparatus, Shadowfell Shard, and then either Earth/Air/Law/Chaos Shard. Being able to get free/discount metamagic uses to trigger the shards seems useful. Clockwork would be primarily for Trance of Order, as a way to eventually guarantee a minimum Arcana roll of 29 when casting high-level spells through the Mizz. The expanded spell list of either is largely irrelevant, since we will have full access to the wizard, sorcerer, and cleric spell lists at all times.
Feats definitely include Lucky, Metamagic Adept, and Ritual Casting (Wizard). Still trying to figure out the others.
Suggestions on race? Feats? Subclass choice?
Again, the goal is essentially to have a character that plays mostly like a wizard in terms of spellcasting but has the metamagic of a full sorcerer (with the cleric spell list as a cherry on top.)
You can't dip one level into a class to get access to their entire spell list for all levels.
you treat a multiclass character as if it were a single class character for the sake of spells. so you prepare wizard spells as if you were a level 1 wizard.
The multiclass spell slots you have would be like a level 20 caster, but you won't have access to wizard and cleric spells of high level.
The dip in cleric to get med armor can be nice tho
Mizzium apparatus does actually allow that. Also sorry for neceo
Except with multiclassing you forget that you lose class specific spell spell slots, The spell you choose must be on your classes spell list. easy enough to meet that requirement. The second part is And of a level of which you have a spell slot for. again class specific spell slots are not a thing with multi-classing aside from warlock pact slots and even those are treated as normal slots unless directed by the specific ability ie divine smite can use warlock pact slots however eldritch smite can only use warlock pact slots. There is nothing here that prevents what he is trying to do that is why the mizzium apparatus is a character defining item. https://5thsrd.org/rules/multiclassing/ I'm sure you can find the appropriate pages in the relevant books aswell. However rules as written this is a known feature of the apparatus. This is also why you can obtain 9th level spell slots by multiclassing but not know a 9th level spell. The apparatus can let you attempt to cast it aslong as you have the slot and it's on your classes list.
Tl:Dr the mizzium apparatus let's you attempt to cast it aslong as you have the spell slots and it's on your class list. It does not require class specific levels. That is why a dip and full Caster levels does work.
From a roleplay perspective, go for it. But from a min-max perspective, it is very unlikely to be worth taking cleric and wizard levels for your sorcerer. It makes a LOT of sense to take ONE level of either Wizard or Cleric, it helps Sorcerer a lot. But taking both makes very little sense.
I like to think of it as comparing what you are getting for giving things up.
17 levels of Sorcerer, this is what you get for taking more levels:
Each level you get +1 Sorcerer point. 17-20 is not such a big difference. HP is a wash. But by not taking your 18th level of Sorcerer you give up your last subclass ability. For clockwork, it is 100 hp of healing, instant repair and a dispel magic on all spells of 6th level or less (1/day or 7 sp). That is pretty good. For Lunar it is a variable ability.
By not taking your 19th, you are giving up a feat. Valuable, but not as valuable as say Divination Portents.
By giving up your 20th you are giving up 4 sp recovery every short rest. This is weak. well worth giving up stuff.
If you take 1 level of Cleric you get 3 cleric cantrips, your domain ability and Wis modifier +1 first level cleric spells known. This frees up your 15 sorcerer spells known to be divided up among all your other sorcerer levels. Note, be sure to forget/switch out all first level sorcerer spells BEFORE you take your level of Cleric.
Taking a 2nd level of Cleric is questionably worth it - you only get a Channel Divinity (most of which are worthless at 20th level considering you only have 2 levels of cleric) and a single extra first level spell known.
Taking 1 level of Wizard gets you 3 wizard cantrips, the Int modifier +1 first level wizard spells preparable, AND the ability to ritually cast the 8 1st level ritual wizard spells (once you have put them into your spell book). That includes Find Familiar, Detect Magic, and Identify.
Taking a 2nd level of Wizard gets you +1 more prepareable wizard spell, two free wizard spells learned (saves a bit of money, but not much), AND the Arcane subclass ability. DIviniation portents are definitely worth it. The Chronal shifts are nowhere near as good, the init bonus helps a bit.
I strongly suggest taking 18 levels of Sorcerer and 2 levels of Divination Wizard.