They can blast people better than any other class.
They have the highest damage-per-turn of any full spellcaster.
They can bend reality to their will.
And that's before we even consider any subclasses.
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Sorcerers start with low health and in a nutshell seem weak why should I make a sorcerer character???
If you're not either (a) using the 2024 rules or (b) playing an Aberrant Mind, a Clockwork Soul, or a Lunar Sorcerer only because you like the fluff. The sorcerer knows far too few spells and is (other than Twin Spell shenanigans) an inferior wizard.
If you're using 2024 rules because you want to be the supreme combat caster (wizards are better utility casters). Glass cannon but big effects.
Sorcerers are the literal definition of a glass cannon. They deal arguably the highest damage in the game, but if you cough in their general direction and crit, their dead 14 times over. They have a ton of insane power and flavor, and have some amazing subclasses. They're actually a really powerful class, and probably one of the most underrated in the game.
Sorcerers start with low health and in a nutshell seem weak why should I make a sorcerer character???
If you're not either (a) using the 2024 rules or (b) playing an Aberrant Mind, a Clockwork Soul, or a Lunar Sorcerer only because you like the fluff. The sorcerer knows far too few spells and is (other than Twin Spell shenanigans) an inferior wizard.
If you're using 2024 rules because you want to be the supreme combat caster (wizards are better utility casters). Glass cannon but big effects.
Sorcerers start with low health and in a nutshell seem weak why should I make a sorcerer character???
If you're not either (a) using the 2024 rules or (b) playing an Aberrant Mind, a Clockwork Soul, or a Lunar Sorcerer only because you like the fluff. The sorcerer knows far too few spells and is (other than Twin Spell shenanigans) an inferior wizard.
If you're using 2024 rules because you want to be the supreme combat caster (wizards are better utility casters). Glass cannon but big effects.
Divine Soul is pretty rad too...
The (pre-Tasha's) sorcerer's problem is that they don't have enough spells known to have much spell flexibility especially if they want some protective spells. The Divine Soul adds more stock to the shop without giving them any more money to buy things with. 2024 Divine Soul is going to be much better.
Sorcerers start with low health and in a nutshell seem weak why should I make a sorcerer character???
If you're not either (a) using the 2024 rules or (b) playing an Aberrant Mind, a Clockwork Soul, or a Lunar Sorcerer only because you like the fluff. The sorcerer knows far too few spells and is (other than Twin Spell shenanigans) an inferior wizard.
If you're using 2024 rules because you want to be the supreme combat caster (wizards are better utility casters). Glass cannon but big effects.
Divine Soul is pretty rad too...
The (pre-Tasha's) sorcerer's problem is that they don't have enough spells known to have much spell flexibility especially if they want some protective spells. The Divine Soul adds more stock to the shop without giving them any more money to buy things with. 2024 Divine Soulsorcerer is going to be much better.
FTFY ;). Though I wonder if they ended up paring the number of spells back a tad from UA. It was a REALLY big increase.
The (pre-Tasha's) sorcerer's problem is that they don't have enough spells known to have much spell flexibility especially if they want some protective spells. The Divine Soul adds more stock to the shop without giving them any more money to buy things with. 2024 Divine Soulsorcerer is going to be much better.
FTFY ;). Though I wonder if they ended up paring the number of spells back a tad from UA. It was a REALLY big increase.
Default sorcerers had an absurdly low number of spells. They were barely ahead of the half-casters. (And I think equal or behind some of them.)
You're right that the increase wasn't as big as I had it in my head (15 max to 22 max or about +50%), but I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers either. It was ONE spell per level until like level 10, then 1 every 2/4 levels to finish it out. In UA it's two per level until 10, then going back to the 1 per 2 levels for a bit before becoming 1 per level for the last 4 levels. I guess I was thinking more in comparison to the wizard (since that's the comparison everyone makes) having level + INT mod number of spells prepared each day and that not being THAT much more than the UA sorcerer.
I'm just comparing to the PHB, btw. If things change in like Tasha's or something I don't know about it because I'm a dummy and just bought all 3 sourcebooks last November.
You're right that the increase wasn't as big as I had it in my head (15 max to 22 max or about +50%), but I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers either. It was ONE spell per level until like level 10, then 1 every 2/4 levels to finish it out. In UA it's two per level until 10, then going back to the 1 per 2 levels for a bit before becoming 1 per level for the last 4 levels. I guess I was thinking more in comparison to the wizard (since that's the comparison everyone makes) having level + INT mod number of spells prepared each day and that not being THAT much more than the UA sorcerer.
I'm just comparing to the PHB, btw. If things change in like Tasha's or something I don't know about it because I'm a dummy and just bought all 3 sourcebooks last November.
In UA7 it's 15 spells by level 10.
Assuming you take all spells at the highest level you can and don't trade them on level up it's:
4 L1 spells (2 at 1, 2 at 2)
3 L2 spells (2 at 3, 1at 4)
3 L3 spells (2 at 5, 1 at 6)
2 L4 spells (1 at 7, 1 at 8)
3 L5 spells (2 at 9, 1 at 10)
The other way of looking at it is that you have precisely as many spells known as you have spell slots with the sole exception of level 2 when they smooth the progression very slightly.
Right. It was the going from "2 known spells per level to 3" that I didn't understand. But it seems that you meant spell level, where I was thinking you meant character level. I think we're on the same page now.
They can blast people better than any other class.
They have the highest damage-per-turn of any full spellcaster.
They can bend reality to their will.
And that's before we even consider any subclasses.
I don't fully agree with some of these assertions.
In general, I don't think the sorcerer is the best blasting class. That title goes to the new wizard due to the interaction between scorching ray and CME. CME should be banned, but even then the wizard has access to spirit shroud assuming your table is playing with legacy spells. The wizard (and bard) also have (or can access) simulacrum, allowing any blasting to be at least doubled. The sorcerer has no general means to buff blasting other than draconic sorcery's elemental affinity (a single damage roll) and empower spell (a max of 5 damage die rerolls with the necessity of using the rerolled values). The class cannot access hex, spirit shroud, CME, or simulacrum without multiclassing. I'll grant you that wild magic sorcery can maximize meteor swarm's damage once per day, but LR will eat into the effectiveness of that tactic. If you consider multiclass combos, then sorcerer/warlock is perhaps the best sustained damage blaster.
Highest damage per turn full spellcaster depends on how this is defined. I would include warlock as a full caster as they get 9th level spells, and as noted, I think they are a more effective sustained damage dealer than sorcerer.
GOOlock can also control minds without being perceived.
My response to Xeyd was coming off way too angry for my own liking. I'm going through a lot and it gets out sometimes.
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Xeyd, the whole arguing with somebody using rules that didn't exist at the time of their post comes across as shitty and rude. Hopefully that wasn't the intention. Nearly everything you refer to (except Simulacrum which was a moot point because Sorcs can make them too [using Wish]) is only because of new 2024 rules. Please be mindful of post dates and release dates, and phrase your responses accordingly.
This is the test account of Cyb3rM1nd. Posting through this because my main account is locked out of forums due to a glitch.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
My response to Xeyd was coming off way too angry for my own liking. I'm going through a lot and it gets out sometimes.
-
Xeyd, the whole arguing with somebody using rules that didn't exist at the time of their post comes across as shitty and rude. Hopefully that wasn't the intention. Nearly everything you refer to (except Simulacrum which was a moot point because Sorcs can make them too [using Wish]) is only because of new 2024 rules. Please be mindful of post dates and release dates, and phrase your responses accordingly.
Thanks.
I didn't see your post, and I think I'm glad I didn't... I meant nothing malign in what I wrote. The OP was recent, so I assumed they had the 2024 version of the class in mind. Regardless, a lot (not all) of what I wrote would apply to 2014 as well. I like the concept of the sorcerer and have been a fan of wild magic since the original Tome of magic in 198?. I just think that someone asking these sorts of questions should be fully informed. Class theme may not correlate well with realized play experience.
Sorcerers are the literal definition of a glass cannon. They deal arguably the highest damage in the game, but if you cough in their general direction and crit, their dead 14 times over. They have a ton of insane power and flavor, and have some amazing subclasses. They're actually a really powerful class, and probably one of the most underrated in the game.
i agree with most of this, until you pick the draconic sorcery subclass, because then my elf sorcerer at level three has 34 HP (around the same as a fighter) with some fair constitution, and an ac of 18, same as plate armor
Sorcerer is my fav arcane caster from the 2024 PHB. Why?
Metamagic, which has become cheaper to use in 2024! Casting fireball with careful spell, give a target disadvantage on a save with Heightened spell, rerolling an attack roll on a miss with Seeking spell are game changers. (Too bad Twinned spell was nerfed).
Hugely improved/buffed wild magic table
Converting spell slots into sorcery points makes sorcerers so flexibile.
Tides of Chaos gives advantage on an attack roll or saving throw spell once per LR
Controlled Chaos at L14 allows you to roll twice on the Wild Magic Table and choose which roll you want
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Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
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Sorcerers start with low health and in a nutshell seem weak why should I make a sorcerer character???
Anime lover, puller of all nighters, destroyer of angels,
I'm only ten years old :)
Has 33 characters
Ultimate homebrewer.
yes, you may ask me to do a certain homebrew/character
They can control minds without anyone knowing.
They can blast people better than any other class.
They have the highest damage-per-turn of any full spellcaster.
They can bend reality to their will.
And that's before we even consider any subclasses.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Why should I convince you?
If you're not either (a) using the 2024 rules or (b) playing an Aberrant Mind, a Clockwork Soul, or a Lunar Sorcerer only because you like the fluff. The sorcerer knows far too few spells and is (other than Twin Spell shenanigans) an inferior wizard.
If you're using 2024 rules because you want to be the supreme combat caster (wizards are better utility casters). Glass cannon but big effects.
Sorcerers are the literal definition of a glass cannon. They deal arguably the highest damage in the game, but if you cough in their general direction and crit, their dead 14 times over. They have a ton of insane power and flavor, and have some amazing subclasses. They're actually a really powerful class, and probably one of the most underrated in the game.
Divine Soul is pretty rad too...
Draconic helps mitigate that slightly (extra hp and AC) and is a decent subclass otherwise as well.
Cool thanks I’ll see how it goes creating one
Anime lover, puller of all nighters, destroyer of angels,
I'm only ten years old :)
Has 33 characters
Ultimate homebrewer.
yes, you may ask me to do a certain homebrew/character
The (pre-Tasha's) sorcerer's problem is that they don't have enough spells known to have much spell flexibility especially if they want some protective spells. The Divine Soul adds more stock to the shop without giving them any more money to buy things with. 2024 Divine Soul is going to be much better.
FTFY ;). Though I wonder if they ended up paring the number of spells back a tad from UA. It was a REALLY big increase.
Default sorcerers had an absurdly low number of spells. They were barely ahead of the half-casters. (And I think equal or behind some of them.)
They moved from two spells known per spell level to three. I don't see how to pare that back without leaving them back in the same situation.
You're right that the increase wasn't as big as I had it in my head (15 max to 22 max or about +50%), but I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers either. It was ONE spell per level until like level 10, then 1 every 2/4 levels to finish it out. In UA it's two per level until 10, then going back to the 1 per 2 levels for a bit before becoming 1 per level for the last 4 levels. I guess I was thinking more in comparison to the wizard (since that's the comparison everyone makes) having level + INT mod number of spells prepared each day and that not being THAT much more than the UA sorcerer.
I'm just comparing to the PHB, btw. If things change in like Tasha's or something I don't know about it because I'm a dummy and just bought all 3 sourcebooks last November.
In UA7 it's 15 spells by level 10.
Assuming you take all spells at the highest level you can and don't trade them on level up it's:
The other way of looking at it is that you have precisely as many spells known as you have spell slots with the sole exception of level 2 when they smooth the progression very slightly.
Right. It was the going from "2 known spells per level to 3" that I didn't understand. But it seems that you meant spell level, where I was thinking you meant character level. I think we're on the same page now.
I don't fully agree with some of these assertions.
In general, I don't think the sorcerer is the best blasting class. That title goes to the new wizard due to the interaction between scorching ray and CME. CME should be banned, but even then the wizard has access to spirit shroud assuming your table is playing with legacy spells. The wizard (and bard) also have (or can access) simulacrum, allowing any blasting to be at least doubled. The sorcerer has no general means to buff blasting other than draconic sorcery's elemental affinity (a single damage roll) and empower spell (a max of 5 damage die rerolls with the necessity of using the rerolled values). The class cannot access hex, spirit shroud, CME, or simulacrum without multiclassing. I'll grant you that wild magic sorcery can maximize meteor swarm's damage once per day, but LR will eat into the effectiveness of that tactic. If you consider multiclass combos, then sorcerer/warlock is perhaps the best sustained damage blaster.
Highest damage per turn full spellcaster depends on how this is defined. I would include warlock as a full caster as they get 9th level spells, and as noted, I think they are a more effective sustained damage dealer than sorcerer.
GOOlock can also control minds without being perceived.
EDIT
My response to Xeyd was coming off way too angry for my own liking. I'm going through a lot and it gets out sometimes.
-
Xeyd, the whole arguing with somebody using rules that didn't exist at the time of their post comes across as shitty and rude. Hopefully that wasn't the intention. Nearly everything you refer to (except Simulacrum which was a moot point because Sorcs can make them too [using Wish]) is only because of new 2024 rules. Please be mindful of post dates and release dates, and phrase your responses accordingly.
Thanks.
This is the test account of Cyb3rM1nd. Posting through this because my main account is locked out of forums due to a glitch.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I didn't see your post, and I think I'm glad I didn't... I meant nothing malign in what I wrote. The OP was recent, so I assumed they had the 2024 version of the class in mind. Regardless, a lot (not all) of what I wrote would apply to 2014 as well. I like the concept of the sorcerer and have been a fan of wild magic since the original Tome of magic in 198?. I just think that someone asking these sorts of questions should be fully informed. Class theme may not correlate well with realized play experience.
i agree with most of this, until you pick the draconic sorcery subclass, because then my elf sorcerer at level three has 34 HP (around the same as a fighter) with some fair constitution, and an ac of 18, same as plate armor
Sorcerer is my fav arcane caster from the 2024 PHB. Why?
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023