OK everyone looking for logic, dm is cool so dont go super strict
we are using the 2024 edition but with a custom wildmagic table every number is different but kept the good bad and neutral ratios the same
we were in a encounter and triggered the wildmagic table which then had me switch souls with a random creature within 30ft it ended up switching me with the paladin
we had a debate at the table whether or not i would be using my own spells and what not so essentially mental stats went with the soul so did spellcasting
So here is my question as the Paladin is armored would you allow me to cast spells using Subtle metamagic? as written its a no but the body is used to the armor and its not like i need to do hand motions or anything
Honestly, if it were me DMing, I wouldn't allow you to use your own Sorcerer spellcasting in that case, since Sorcerers' magical ability is an innate part of themselves; my instinct would be that it wouldn't be available if they were outside their normal body.
But as to the armor question, I think it's reasonable to say that if you are taking the Paladin's physical stats, you gain their armor and weapon proficiencies as well.
Proficiencies are learned, they are not a physical trait. Something similar has happened in a campaign I ran (it was actually the bad guy that swapped bodies through the campaign). I ruled that if he ever landed in a heavily armored body, he could not cast spells because he didn't have proficiency with that armor.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
This is an interestingly metaphysical question. The closest in-game precedent I can think of is the Magic Jar spell where your soul goes into another body. In that case, the spell says:
Once you possess a creature’s body, you control it. Your Hit Points, Hit Point Dice, Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Speed, and senses are replaced by the creature’s. You otherwise keep your game statistics.
So, maybe go with that? Which, I guess would mean you are wearing armor, but are not proficient in the armor (assuming a heavy armor wearing pally, and that you don’t have the proficiency from somewhere) so you couldn’t cast spells at all until you take the armor off.
The general ruling on various spells that let you change your physical form to another creature, tend to be along the lines of...
"Unless the creature is capable of casting spells, you cant cast spells."
That's how things like True Polymorph and Wildshape work.
Magic Jar is sort of the exception to the rule with retaining your class features, which would seem to imply you can continue to cast spells.
Funny that this interaction is occurring with Wild Magic Sorcerer though. Because out of all of the spellcasters, I'd argue that Sorcerer is the one spellcaster that logically should not be able to continue casting spells if their body changes, since their magic comes from some sort of abnormality in their body. Weird bloodline, some kind of external influence on their body, etc. While every other spellcaster is either a learned ability, magic granted from a powerful being through their soul, or they just really believe in something super hard. None of those would change with your physical body.
But the 2024 Sorcerer had its description expanded on to include things like blessings from dragons, fey, etc. So now its just sort of a whatever type thing. Sorta blurring the line between Sorcerer and Warlock.
Ultimately you're using a custom wild magic table, so how this interaction works is going to require a custom ruling from your DM.
Just going to remind people some Sorcerers have magic in their body or blood but some have it in their mind or souls. So, the answer is going to be specific to the character and where you have your power reside.
Personally, using existing rules as a base tends to be better than creating something wholly new. The closest match being the already mentioned Magic Jar so I'd just use those rules, for simplicity. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
OK everyone looking for logic, dm is cool so dont go super strict
we are using the 2024 edition but with a custom wildmagic table every number is different but kept the good bad and neutral ratios the same
we were in a encounter and triggered the wildmagic table which then had me switch souls with a random creature within 30ft it ended up switching me with the paladin
we had a debate at the table whether or not i would be using my own spells and what not so essentially mental stats went with the soul so did spellcasting
So here is my question as the Paladin is armored would you allow me to cast spells using Subtle metamagic? as written its a no but the body is used to the armor and its not like i need to do hand motions or anything
Honestly, if it were me DMing, I wouldn't allow you to use your own Sorcerer spellcasting in that case, since Sorcerers' magical ability is an innate part of themselves; my instinct would be that it wouldn't be available if they were outside their normal body.
But as to the armor question, I think it's reasonable to say that if you are taking the Paladin's physical stats, you gain their armor and weapon proficiencies as well.
pronouns: he/she/they
Proficiencies are learned, they are not a physical trait. Something similar has happened in a campaign I ran (it was actually the bad guy that swapped bodies through the campaign). I ruled that if he ever landed in a heavily armored body, he could not cast spells because he didn't have proficiency with that armor.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
This is an interestingly metaphysical question. The closest in-game precedent I can think of is the Magic Jar spell where your soul goes into another body. In that case, the spell says:
Once you possess a creature’s body, you control it. Your Hit Points, Hit Point Dice, Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Speed, and senses are replaced by the creature’s. You otherwise keep your game statistics.
So, maybe go with that? Which, I guess would mean you are wearing armor, but are not proficient in the armor (assuming a heavy armor wearing pally, and that you don’t have the proficiency from somewhere) so you couldn’t cast spells at all until you take the armor off.
The general ruling on various spells that let you change your physical form to another creature, tend to be along the lines of...
"Unless the creature is capable of casting spells, you cant cast spells."
That's how things like True Polymorph and Wildshape work.
Magic Jar is sort of the exception to the rule with retaining your class features, which would seem to imply you can continue to cast spells.
Funny that this interaction is occurring with Wild Magic Sorcerer though. Because out of all of the spellcasters, I'd argue that Sorcerer is the one spellcaster that logically should not be able to continue casting spells if their body changes, since their magic comes from some sort of abnormality in their body. Weird bloodline, some kind of external influence on their body, etc. While every other spellcaster is either a learned ability, magic granted from a powerful being through their soul, or they just really believe in something super hard. None of those would change with your physical body.
But the 2024 Sorcerer had its description expanded on to include things like blessings from dragons, fey, etc. So now its just sort of a whatever type thing. Sorta blurring the line between Sorcerer and Warlock.
Ultimately you're using a custom wild magic table, so how this interaction works is going to require a custom ruling from your DM.
Just going to remind people some Sorcerers have magic in their body or blood but some have it in their mind or souls. So, the answer is going to be specific to the character and where you have your power reside.
Personally, using existing rules as a base tends to be better than creating something wholly new. The closest match being the already mentioned Magic Jar so I'd just use those rules, for simplicity. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Outstanding question and conundrum - thanks for posting it :o)
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