Is Meta Magic specific to only the Sorcerer's spells, or would it also apply to Ritual Casting? I'm specially thinking of adding Distance to a Cure Wounds touch spell, but could apply to a Wizards Shocking Grasp and several others. I guess the same question applies to multi-class casters, too.
I don't see anything forbidding metamagic from working on rituals. None of the spells you listed are rituals though. Metamagic can apply to any spell you are casting (from any class or even race), ritual casting is usually more restrictive and only works for spells according to its description.
My reading would be you can apply meta magic to any spell the sorcerer can cast regardless of which spell list it is from, it just says you can twist spells to suit your needs so I see no reason why you couldn't have the Ritual Caster feat and apply a meta magic at the culmination of the ritual, although I think only Extended Spell and Twin Spell maybe applicable to ritual casting.
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Sorry, my bad.... I was obviously thinking of the Magic Initiate feat for the lower level spells
My ... thoughts?... for a better word... are that Divine and Arcane magics may be different enough that the Meta Magic does not apply... could obviously be a DM call, or maybe it's something the PTBS want to chime in on if they intended otherwise
Sorry, my bad.... I was obviously thinking of the Magic Initiate feat for the lower level spells
My ... thoughts?... for a better word... are that Divine and Arcane magics may be different enough that the Meta Magic does not apply... could obviously be a DM call, or maybe it's something the PTBS want to chime in on if they intended otherwise
In D&D 5th Edition there is, mechanically speaking, no such thing as divine magic and arcane magic. This is a holdover from previous editions but technically the lore as presented in the official books does not make them distinct.
Metamagic is not about the type of magic, it's the sorcerer's ability to more easily manipulate the weave of all magic (even if you had arcane/divine distinction, it still works anyway) - it applies to any magic the sorcerer is casting: any spell, of any source, whether they're casting from a racial feature, class, feat or magic item.
The only condition of using metamagic on your casting is "are you casting it?".
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I play Divine Soul Sorc/Life Cleric multiclass and had my DM argue that I could not twin cast Cure Wounds because it was a Cleric spell. He is also an old holdover DM from previous editions that can't decide which edition we're playing in on a sessions-to-session basis. I had to argue that not only does Metamagic apply to ALL spells I can cast, but that both magical sources were Divine before he would allow it.
I don't have a problem with metamagic applying to all spells per se.... that is the crux of my question, and I can see arguments for both sides...
it IS a sorcerer skill, not a Feat available to anyone, so I can see it applying to only the sorcerer version of the spells, if the DM so decreed.
I can also see the "a spell is a spell" argument, so I'm game either way, and was looking for other opinions, hoping to help me lean a bit stronger in either direction.
I don't see how your DM let you talk him/her into calling sorcerer spells Divine Magic, though. But that would be a discussion for a different thread.
In D&D 5th Edition there is, mechanically speaking, no such thing as divine magic and arcane magic. This is a holdover from previous editions but technically the lore as presented in the official books does not make them distinct.
A cleric is a "Divine Agent" and "a conduit for divine power"; a wizard is "a student of arcane magic". A warlocks magic seems to "Eldritch" in nature whatever that means... their pact sources could be divine or arcane or something else (?). A druids magic is "the divine essence of nature itself".
Divine and Arcane magics do still seem to be seperate.
A sorcerer has a mark embuing him/her with Arcane magic, so perhaps the connection from metamagic to any non-sorcerer arcane spells is an easy leap, though not a given, and the others may not be applicable at all.
HOW the magic is cast may make the difference... a wizard uses ... a formula, for all intents and puposes... sorcerers are more off the cuff, instinctual, seat of the pants, etcetera (I'm almost picturing David Eddings "The Belgariad" here, with The Will and the Word)... the formula casting method may not be compatible with metamagic.
Like I've said before, I can see arguments for both sides... personally, I'm leaning toward letting it apply to all spells the sorcerer casts, but I guess only seeing how it impacts a game would let me tell for sure... just how far CAN a creative player over abuse it? :)
II don't see how your DM let you talk him/her into calling sorcerer spells Divine Magic, though. But that would be a discussion for a different thread.
Divine Soul Sorcerer. The source of their power is divine blood running through their veins. Easy peasy. But it was more the fact that there is nothing in writing that says a sorcerer can't metamagic any spell that they know. Also, they're Devine per RAW
Divine Magic
Your link to the divine allows you to learn spells from the cleric class. When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
In addition, choose an affinity for the source of your divine power: good, evil, law, chaos, or neutrality. You learn an additional spell based on that affinity, as shown below. It is a sorcerer spell for you, but it doesn’t count against your number of sorcerer spells known. If you later replace this spell, you must replace it with a spell from the cleric spell list.
The separation between arcane and divine spells is purely flavor and has no impact on mechanics in 5E. If there was an arcane or divine or eldritch tag associated with spells that might be different, but since there is not, a spell is a spell is a spell.
In D&D 5th Edition there is, mechanically speaking, no such thing as divine magic and arcane magic. This is a holdover from previous editions but technically the lore as presented in the official books does not make them distinct.
A cleric is a "Divine Agent" and "a conduit for divine power"; a wizard is "a student of arcane magic". A warlocks magic seems to "Eldritch" in nature whatever that means... their pact sources could be divine or arcane or something else (?). A druids magic is "the divine essence of nature itself".
Divine and Arcane magics do still seem to be seperate.
A sorcerer has a mark embuing him/her with Arcane magic, so perhaps the connection from metamagic to any non-sorcerer arcane spells is an easy leap, though not a given, and the others may not be applicable at all.
HOW the magic is cast may make the difference... a wizard uses ... a formula, for all intents and puposes... sorcerers are more off the cuff, instinctual, seat of the pants, etcetera (I'm almost picturing David Eddings "The Belgariad" here, with The Will and the Word)... the formula casting method may not be compatible with metamagic.
Like I've said before, I can see arguments for both sides... personally, I'm leaning toward letting it apply to all spells the sorcerer casts, but I guess only seeing how it impacts a game would let me tell for sure... just how far CAN a creative player over abuse it? :)
It's not really the magic that's divine or arcane. It's the caster. See my comment below.
II don't see how your DM let you talk him/her into calling sorcerer spells Divine Magic, though. But that would be a discussion for a different thread.
Divine Soul Sorcerer. The source of their power is divine blood running through their veins. Easy peasy. But it was more the fact that there is nothing in writing that says a sorcerer can't metamagic any spell that they know. Also, they're Devine per RAW
Divine Magic
Your link to the divine allows you to learn spells from the cleric class. When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
In addition, choose an affinity for the source of your divine power: good, evil, law, chaos, or neutrality. You learn an additional spell based on that affinity, as shown below. It is a sorcerer spell for you, but it doesn’t count against your number of sorcerer spells known. If you later replace this spell, you must replace it with a spell from the cleric spell list.
The separation between arcane and divine spells is purely flavor and has no impact on mechanics in 5E. If there was an arcane or divine or eldritch tag associated with spells that might be different, but since there is not, a spell is a spell is a spell.
The spells of the caster are called arcane or divine based on how the caster access the weave of magic (whatever that weave is called in each campaign world). The spells themselves are just magic. The only difference is the method of accessing that magic.
"All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding—learned or intuitive—of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters’ access to the Weave is mediated by divine power—gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin’s oath."
How many have chosen "Quickened Spell" as a metamagic option? I chose it early mistakenly thinking that I could cast two spells in one turn, and I'm now having buyers remorse. I have not found it useful at all. Is anyone on here really in love with it?
How many have chosen "Quickened Spell" as a metamagic option? I chose it early mistakenly thinking that I could cast two spells in one turn, and I'm now having buyers remorse. I have not found it useful at all. Is anyone on here really in love with it?
It's great to cast a leveled spell then follow up with a cantrip (or even vice versa).
Cast resistance on yourself then BA a fireball if you're being swarmed.
Or the enemy is almost dead but your team mate has already -2 death saving throws. Quicken spare the dying then fire bolt the boss.
Or just double down on fire bolts every round. (I know the previous examples need divine cleric/tome lock, MC or magic initiate but just examples)
If you take some warlock you're pretty much a Gatling gun at higher levels (4x eldritch blasts x 2)
Thanks for the suggestions but there is no multi-classing in the game I'm in. Two sorcery points to be able to cast a cantrip seems like a lot.
It's more like 2 points to cast a spell of any level plus a cantrip on the same turn.
2 points, big AoE spell as bonus.
Action, 1 point to twin spell a cantrip.
That's a lot of damage and a lot of enemies hurt/affected in a single turn.
Got a dagger and enemy right next to you? 2 points Hold Person/Monster, then Booming Blade with auto-crit. Then you can get away.
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I picked Quickened as my 3rd-level metamagic along with Empowered and am loving it! It really comes online once you get to 4th and 5th levels, because then you have multiple quick-casts without burning slots for sorcery points. I'm a Half-Elf Draconic (Blue) sorcerer and my DM lets me change certain spells to lightning damage (Fire Bolt, Scorching Ray, Fireball), and I have the Elven Accuracy feat. We're at level 8 now, so a combat could potentially look like this:
Before Combat: Create a 5th level slot, expending 7 sorcery points. Then burn a few low-level slots so you have 5 sorcery points in reserve (2 2nd-level slots, or 1 2nd and 2 1st).
First Round: Quicken Greater Invisibility, then Action to Fire Bolt with Elven Accuracy Advantage (adding draconic damage)
Second Round: Warm up with Fire Bolt at super-advantage, then quicken Scorching ray (5th level) for a total of 6 rays of fire (lightning), all at super-advantage, and burn a sorcery point to empower to reroll any 1s and 2s. (add draconic damage to both spells)
Third Round: Action: Non-cantrip spell, Bonus: sacrifice 2nd level slot for Quicken points
Fourth Round: Cantrip (Action) and Quicken a Fireball or something along those lines.
TLDR It's great, you may just have to stick it out through a couple levels for things to get really silly. :)
I could cast the "big AOE spell" without quicken. Quicken buys me the cantrip a round ahead of where I could normally cast it. It seems like having the extra spell slot would be more beneficial.
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Is Meta Magic specific to only the Sorcerer's spells, or would it also apply to Ritual Casting? I'm specially thinking of adding Distance to a Cure Wounds touch spell, but could apply to a Wizards Shocking Grasp and several others. I guess the same question applies to multi-class casters, too.
I don't see anything forbidding metamagic from working on rituals. None of the spells you listed are rituals though. Metamagic can apply to any spell you are casting (from any class or even race), ritual casting is usually more restrictive and only works for spells according to its description.
My reading would be you can apply meta magic to any spell the sorcerer can cast regardless of which spell list it is from, it just says you can twist spells to suit your needs so I see no reason why you couldn't have the Ritual Caster feat and apply a meta magic at the culmination of the ritual, although I think only Extended Spell and Twin Spell maybe applicable to ritual casting.
Sorry, my bad.... I was obviously thinking of the Magic Initiate feat for the lower level spells
My ... thoughts?... for a better word... are that Divine and Arcane magics may be different enough that the Meta Magic does not apply... could obviously be a DM call, or maybe it's something the PTBS want to chime in on if they intended otherwise
Divine sorc can metamagic their healing spells.
and yea, you could increase the range of your detect magic.
In D&D 5th Edition there is, mechanically speaking, no such thing as divine magic and arcane magic. This is a holdover from previous editions but technically the lore as presented in the official books does not make them distinct.
Metamagic is not about the type of magic, it's the sorcerer's ability to more easily manipulate the weave of all magic (even if you had arcane/divine distinction, it still works anyway) - it applies to any magic the sorcerer is casting: any spell, of any source, whether they're casting from a racial feature, class, feat or magic item.
The only condition of using metamagic on your casting is "are you casting it?".
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I play Divine Soul Sorc/Life Cleric multiclass and had my DM argue that I could not twin cast Cure Wounds because it was a Cleric spell. He is also an old holdover DM from previous editions that can't decide which edition we're playing in on a sessions-to-session basis. I had to argue that not only does Metamagic apply to ALL spells I can cast, but that both magical sources were Divine before he would allow it.
I don't have a problem with metamagic applying to all spells per se.... that is the crux of my question, and I can see arguments for both sides...
it IS a sorcerer skill, not a Feat available to anyone, so I can see it applying to only the sorcerer version of the spells, if the DM so decreed.
I can also see the "a spell is a spell" argument, so I'm game either way, and was looking for other opinions, hoping to help me lean a bit stronger in either direction.
I don't see how your DM let you talk him/her into calling sorcerer spells Divine Magic, though. But that would be a discussion for a different thread.
A cleric is a "Divine Agent" and "a conduit for divine power"; a wizard is "a student of arcane magic". A warlocks magic seems to "Eldritch" in nature whatever that means... their pact sources could be divine or arcane or something else (?). A druids magic is "the divine essence of nature itself".
Divine and Arcane magics do still seem to be seperate.
A sorcerer has a mark embuing him/her with Arcane magic, so perhaps the connection from metamagic to any non-sorcerer arcane spells is an easy leap, though not a given, and the others may not be applicable at all.
HOW the magic is cast may make the difference... a wizard uses ... a formula, for all intents and puposes... sorcerers are more off the cuff, instinctual, seat of the pants, etcetera (I'm almost picturing David Eddings "The Belgariad" here, with The Will and the Word)... the formula casting method may not be compatible with metamagic.
Like I've said before, I can see arguments for both sides... personally, I'm leaning toward letting it apply to all spells the sorcerer casts, but I guess only seeing how it impacts a game would let me tell for sure... just how far CAN a creative player over abuse it? :)
Divine Soul Sorcerer. The source of their power is divine blood running through their veins. Easy peasy. But it was more the fact that there is nothing in writing that says a sorcerer can't metamagic any spell that they know. Also, they're Devine per RAW
Divine Magic
Your link to the divine allows you to learn spells from the cleric class. When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
In addition, choose an affinity for the source of your divine power: good, evil, law, chaos, or neutrality. You learn an additional spell based on that affinity, as shown below. It is a sorcerer spell for you, but it doesn’t count against your number of sorcerer spells known. If you later replace this spell, you must replace it with a spell from the cleric spell list.
The separation between arcane and divine spells is purely flavor and has no impact on mechanics in 5E. If there was an arcane or divine or eldritch tag associated with spells that might be different, but since there is not, a spell is a spell is a spell.
It's not really the magic that's divine or arcane. It's the caster. See my comment below.
The spells of the caster are called arcane or divine based on how the caster access the weave of magic (whatever that weave is called in each campaign world). The spells themselves are just magic. The only difference is the method of accessing that magic.
"All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding—learned or intuitive—of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters’ access to the Weave is mediated by divine power—gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin’s oath."
I agree. It's just a flavor.
How many have chosen "Quickened Spell" as a metamagic option? I chose it early mistakenly thinking that I could cast two spells in one turn, and I'm now having buyers remorse. I have not found it useful at all. Is anyone on here really in love with it?
It's great to cast a leveled spell then follow up with a cantrip (or even vice versa).
Cast resistance on yourself then BA a fireball if you're being swarmed.
Or the enemy is almost dead but your team mate has already -2 death saving throws. Quicken spare the dying then fire bolt the boss.
Or just double down on fire bolts every round. (I know the previous examples need divine cleric/tome lock, MC or magic initiate but just examples)
If you take some warlock you're pretty much a Gatling gun at higher levels (4x eldritch blasts x 2)
Thanks for the suggestions but there is no multi-classing in the game I'm in. Two sorcery points to be able to cast a cantrip seems like a lot.
It's more like 2 points to cast a spell of any level plus a cantrip on the same turn.
2 points, big AoE spell as bonus.
Action, 1 point to twin spell a cantrip.
That's a lot of damage and a lot of enemies hurt/affected in a single turn.
Got a dagger and enemy right next to you? 2 points Hold Person/Monster, then Booming Blade with auto-crit. Then you can get away.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I picked Quickened as my 3rd-level metamagic along with Empowered and am loving it! It really comes online once you get to 4th and 5th levels, because then you have multiple quick-casts without burning slots for sorcery points. I'm a Half-Elf Draconic (Blue) sorcerer and my DM lets me change certain spells to lightning damage (Fire Bolt, Scorching Ray, Fireball), and I have the Elven Accuracy feat. We're at level 8 now, so a combat could potentially look like this:
Before Combat: Create a 5th level slot, expending 7 sorcery points. Then burn a few low-level slots so you have 5 sorcery points in reserve (2 2nd-level slots, or 1 2nd and 2 1st).
First Round: Quicken Greater Invisibility, then Action to Fire Bolt with Elven Accuracy Advantage (adding draconic damage)
Second Round: Warm up with Fire Bolt at super-advantage, then quicken Scorching ray (5th level) for a total of 6 rays of fire (lightning), all at super-advantage, and burn a sorcery point to empower to reroll any 1s and 2s. (add draconic damage to both spells)
Third Round: Action: Non-cantrip spell, Bonus: sacrifice 2nd level slot for Quicken points
Fourth Round: Cantrip (Action) and Quicken a Fireball or something along those lines.
TLDR It's great, you may just have to stick it out through a couple levels for things to get really silly. :)
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
What is super advantage?
I'm assuming his Elven Accuracy feat. Allows you to reroll an advantage die (essentially an advantage roll with 3 dice).
Yeah, sorry for the confusion. Just using that as shorthand for Elven Accuracy. :)
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
I could cast the "big AOE spell" without quicken. Quicken buys me the cantrip a round ahead of where I could normally cast it. It seems like having the extra spell slot would be more beneficial.