That's a very niche use of Friends. It's primary use is to get things you want, in a hurry and you don't care who you might annoy by doing so.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Setting enemies against each other before you need to fight them is just the best example of the fun that can be had with reliable spell-slot-free disguise abilities, a little reconnaissance, and some creativity. There are a lot more possible tricks. Surely I'm the only one who remembers Mystique from X-Men or the Founders from Star Trek: DS9. The Friends cantrip is the lubrication on the gears of Deception + instant face change.
And it's still pretty much never useful in an actual game because the precise nature of the setup required to pull it off means that you'll rarely be in such a position that you can actually do it.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Which is why I originally said it’s a crap can trip.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Setting enemies against each other before you need to fight them is just the best example of the fun that can be had with reliable spell-slot-free disguise abilities, a little reconnaissance, and some creativity. There are a lot more possible tricks. Surely I'm the only one who remembers Mystique from X-Men or the Founders from Star Trek: DS9. The Friends cantrip is the lubrication on the gears of Deception + instant face change.
I almost never wish to avoid combat.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I ended up taking lightning lure. I got very good use out of it so far. The best was when we were fighting some gnolls over an ice hole. I jumped off the edge, cast lightning lure to pull one of the gnolls off the edge too then misty stepped back to the ledge. I've also been using it with web to limit the number of monsters next to our tank.
So now i'm thinking i'm gonna use Animate Objects for boss fights when the boss has high saves and legendaries. What should i use until then? I was thinking Polymorph, but that keeps me from spellcasting while it's up.
So now i'm thinking i'm gonna use Animate Objects for boss fights when the boss has high saves and legendaries. What should i use until then? I was thinking Polymorph, but that keeps me from spellcasting while it's up.
Banishment is one of the best level 4 spells. It targets a saving throw that is often a pretty weak saving throw, too.
So hit them with a few things that force saves while keeping Banishment up your sleeve. If they burn through their Legendary Saves on weaker effects, Banish them. If they don't, you're getting that extra effectiveness against them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Then hit them with weaker spells like Bane, Hold Person, and Blindness/Deafness to make them waste legendary saves on 1st and 2nd level spells. If you want a spell that you can cast on the enemy that isn't stopped by a Legendary Save, the choices are very limited. Especially if you want debuffs instead of damage.
Then hit them with weaker spells like Bane, Hold Person, and Blindness/Deafness to make them waste legendary saves on 1st and 2nd level spells. If you want a spell that you can cast on the enemy that isn't stopped by a Legendary Save, the choices are very limited. Especially if you want debuffs instead of damage.
Some good suggestions here! Hold Person requires the target to be a humanoid while most creatures with legendary saves will likely qualify as a monster.
While they might not have the same bonuses to Banishment/Counterspell as Bards and Abjuration Wizards, Sorcerers do make good Banishment/Counterspell cannons against bosses by sheer volume of fire. Making use of your Font of Magic ability (as a bonus action) allows you to spend sorcery points in return for creating spell slots, meaning mid-high level sorcerers can cast more 3rd & 4th level spells than Bards and Wizards. You’re also able to turn spell slots into sorcery points (as a bonus action), meaning you could spend two 3rd level slots to gain another 4th level slot, meaning another casting of Banishment if need be.
My Aberrant Mind has two 4th lvl spell slots, 8 sorcery points, and spells of 3rd lvl and below worth 19 sorcery points (potentially a total of 27 sorcery points). Considering 4th lvl spell slots cost 6 sorcery points each to create, my Aberrant Mind is sitting on potentially 6 castings of Banishment - that’s 3 times as many than any other full caster of the same level.
Applying the same method to Counterspell (lvl 3 spell), my Aberrant Mind has 3x 3rd lvl slots, 2x 4th lvl slots, and sorcery points and lower-lvl spells worth 18 sorcery points - a total of 7 castings of Counterspell.
Any leftover sorcery points can be used to employ the Subtle Spell Metamagic, meaning that no one is able to Counterspell your castings of Banishment or Counterspell to which Subtle Spell is applied.
In my last session, things went badly in our battle against a boss when the Warlock’s summoned demon turned on the party. Getting clever with Font of Magic, I was able to Counterspell a hail of significant incoming threats (death spells, paralysis etc) while we raised a downed player, retreated, and foiled a Counterspell that threatened to interrupt out genie’s Plane Shift - which was the only ticket we had out of that mess!
And it's still pretty much never useful in an actual game because the precise nature of the setup required to pull it off means that you'll rarely be in such a position that you can actually do it.
Well, I don't like to assume (as you seem to) that everybody plays D&D as a Hack and Smash style of game. I'm sure that is quite common, but there are some people who prefer games with more political intrigue and long-term strategic planning involved, not just for killing the BBEG, but for creating alliances with neighboring states, etc. Different strokes for different folks.
And it's still pretty much never useful in an actual game because the precise nature of the setup required to pull it off means that you'll rarely be in such a position that you can actually do it.
Well, I don't like to assume (as you seem to) that everybody plays D&D as a Hack and Smash style of game. I'm sure that is quite common, but there are some people who prefer games with more political intrigue and long-term strategic planning involved, not just for killing the BBEG, but for creating alliances with neighboring states, etc. Different strokes for different folks.
As has been pointed out several times, even in that style of game the precise circumstances that need to arise to pull that off are unlikely.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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That's a very niche use of Friends. It's primary use is to get things you want, in a hurry and you don't care who you might annoy by doing so.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Which is pretty niche to begin with.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Setting enemies against each other before you need to fight them is just the best example of the fun that can be had with reliable spell-slot-free disguise abilities, a little reconnaissance, and some creativity. There are a lot more possible tricks. Surely I'm the only one who remembers Mystique from X-Men or the Founders from Star Trek: DS9. The Friends cantrip is the lubrication on the gears of Deception + instant face change.
And it's still pretty much never useful in an actual game because the precise nature of the setup required to pull it off means that you'll rarely be in such a position that you can actually do it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This thread has some ideas for friends.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Which is why I originally said it’s a crap can trip.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I almost never wish to avoid combat.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
And why I'm agreeing with you.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I ended up taking lightning lure. I got very good use out of it so far. The best was when we were fighting some gnolls over an ice hole. I jumped off the edge, cast lightning lure to pull one of the gnolls off the edge too then misty stepped back to the ledge. I've also been using it with web to limit the number of monsters next to our tank.
Nice way to take advantage of the terrain.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So now i'm thinking i'm gonna use Animate Objects for boss fights when the boss has high saves and legendaries. What should i use until then? I was thinking Polymorph, but that keeps me from spellcasting while it's up.
Banishment is one of the best level 4 spells. It targets a saving throw that is often a pretty weak saving throw, too.
Yes, but legendary saves still stop it.
So hit them with a few things that force saves while keeping Banishment up your sleeve. If they burn through their Legendary Saves on weaker effects, Banish them. If they don't, you're getting that extra effectiveness against them.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Then hit them with weaker spells like Bane, Hold Person, and Blindness/Deafness to make them waste legendary saves on 1st and 2nd level spells. If you want a spell that you can cast on the enemy that isn't stopped by a Legendary Save, the choices are very limited. Especially if you want debuffs instead of damage.
Some good suggestions here! Hold Person requires the target to be a humanoid while most creatures with legendary saves will likely qualify as a monster.
While they might not have the same bonuses to Banishment/Counterspell as Bards and Abjuration Wizards, Sorcerers do make good Banishment/Counterspell cannons against bosses by sheer volume of fire. Making use of your Font of Magic ability (as a bonus action) allows you to spend sorcery points in return for creating spell slots, meaning mid-high level sorcerers can cast more 3rd & 4th level spells than Bards and Wizards. You’re also able to turn spell slots into sorcery points (as a bonus action), meaning you could spend two 3rd level slots to gain another 4th level slot, meaning another casting of Banishment if need be.
My Aberrant Mind has two 4th lvl spell slots, 8 sorcery points, and spells of 3rd lvl and below worth 19 sorcery points (potentially a total of 27 sorcery points). Considering 4th lvl spell slots cost 6 sorcery points each to create, my Aberrant Mind is sitting on potentially 6 castings of Banishment - that’s 3 times as many than any other full caster of the same level.
Applying the same method to Counterspell (lvl 3 spell), my Aberrant Mind has 3x 3rd lvl slots, 2x 4th lvl slots, and sorcery points and lower-lvl spells worth 18 sorcery points - a total of 7 castings of Counterspell.
Any leftover sorcery points can be used to employ the Subtle Spell Metamagic, meaning that no one is able to Counterspell your castings of Banishment or Counterspell to which Subtle Spell is applied.
In my last session, things went badly in our battle against a boss when the Warlock’s summoned demon turned on the party. Getting clever with Font of Magic, I was able to Counterspell a hail of significant incoming threats (death spells, paralysis etc) while we raised a downed player, retreated, and foiled a Counterspell that threatened to interrupt out genie’s Plane Shift - which was the only ticket we had out of that mess!
Well, I don't like to assume (as you seem to) that everybody plays D&D as a Hack and Smash style of game. I'm sure that is quite common, but there are some people who prefer games with more political intrigue and long-term strategic planning involved, not just for killing the BBEG, but for creating alliances with neighboring states, etc. Different strokes for different folks.
As has been pointed out several times, even in that style of game the precise circumstances that need to arise to pull that off are unlikely.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.