Seems like a lot of effort wasted to just protect you from a small handfuls of attacks. Even more so if your going to waste 6 levels on Sorcerer and the never cast sorcerer spells again. And even more so when you realize that to get some proper numbers out of both aid and Armor of Agathys you actually need to use multiple medium or high level spell slots and multiple turns to set it up for each hit.
Seems like you don't understand how it works. You spend Sorcery Points for it, but you can still use your spell slots to cast Sorcerer spells. Spell slots and Sorcery Points are two different resources, and Sorcerers start the day with both of them. Aid has an 8 hour duration, so it's usually cast before combat starts, and it usually lasts through the entire adventuring day with just one casting of it. Armor of Agathys lasts an hour, so it's also usually cast before combat starts, and it won't last the entire adventuring day, but that's not a problem because there's a decent chance that the temporary hit points will be gone before the hour is up anyways. Sorcerers aren't like Warlocks - they can cast two spells and still have a bunch of spell slots left over for other spells.
Seems like a lot of effort wasted to just protect you from a small handfuls of attacks. Even more so if your going to waste 6 levels on Sorcerer and the never cast sorcerer spells again. And even more so when you realize that to get some proper numbers out of both aid and Armor of Agathys you actually need to use multiple medium or high level spell slots and multiple turns to set it up for each hit.
Seems like you don't understand how it works. You spend Sorcery Points for it, but you can still use your spell slots to cast Sorcerer spells. Spell slots and Sorcery Points are two different resources, and Sorcerers start the day with both of them. Aid has an 8 hour duration, so it's usually cast before combat starts, and it usually lasts through the entire adventuring day with just one casting of it. Armor of Agathys lasts an hour, so it's also usually cast before combat starts, and it won't last the entire adventuring day, but that's not a problem because there's a decent chance that the temporary hit points will be gone before the hour is up anyways. Sorcerers aren't like Warlocks - they can cast two spells and still have a bunch of spell slots left over for other spells.
I understand how all of it works. Aid also does only 5hp per level of the spell slot used and starts out at second level. Armor of Agathys does 5hp per level of spell slot used and just pain casting these things because you might get in a fight in the next hour is a wasted spell slot and wasted turns of prep if it doesn't happen. Or if it runs out mid combat before you've used it all. Your not teaching me anything with this explanation of your "clever trick". The reality in practice is that these spells are almost never cast pre-combat despite how it looks all neat and tidy in white room theory crafting and instead tend to be something done in the first turn of combat or at best a surprise round before getting into the actual turns if they are not simply forgone because the player just wants to do "Moar Damage!" and immediately wades into combat like a two year old excited to see the swimming pool.
Also this idea that the adventuring day is practically only 8 hours so that your always covered by 8 hour spells is not true. The reality in play is that adventuring days tend to be 12 to 16 hours long once they get going With something like 8am to 8pm being a normal, not out of the question, day for them considering it is often a decent sunrise to sunset period that many use while traveling with a bit of leeway to either side like stopping early or getting a late start.
If your D&D party isn't smart enough to cast Aid before combat starts, I feel sorry for you. It sounds like your group isn't very good at the strategy aspect of D&D.
The Player's Handbook literally indicates that 8 hours is the expected amount of time spent traveling during the day, and that players should do a constitution saving throw if they're spending more than 8 hours traveling. It's on the first page of chapter 8 in the Player's Handbook.
Or perhaps we don't feel the need to cast aid because we have ways to lock down the enemies and make them more manageable and other Buffs that we use to increase our defenses over a handful of hitpoints.
Also. Traveling is not the sum of adventuring. There are a lot of other things to be done that can fill out the rest of those hours in the day.
Most DMs would apply the "roll a con save to avoid exhaustion" rule for any type of strenuous activity during the day lasting more than 8 hours, and not just for more than 8 hours of travel. But it sounds like your DM is taking it easy on your party because you guys can't even figure out how to cast 8 hour buff spells before combat. I have played two Clerics and my current campaign has a Divine Soul Sorcerer, and none of us have had difficulty remembering to cast Aid before we go out adventuring. It's not exactly one of the hard parts of playing D&D. Casting 8 hour buffs is probably one of the easiest parts of D&D, in fact.
Most DMs would apply the "roll a con save to avoid exhaustion" rule for any type of strenuous activity during the day lasting more than 8 hours, and not just for more than 8 hours of travel. But it sounds like your DM is taking it easy on your party because you guys can't even figure out how to cast 8 hour buff spells before combat. I have played two Clerics and my current campaign has a Divine Soul Sorcerer, and none of us have had difficulty remembering to cast Aid before we go out adventuring. It's not exactly one of the hard parts of playing D&D. Casting 8 hour buffs is probably one of the easiest parts of D&D, in fact.
Most DM's do not actually apply that rule to everything. It's a rule designed specific for long and trying overland movements and is specifically marked as "forced march" Not under the heading. "anything your being entirely too active about for variable amounts of time over an overall period."
Your trying to imply your tactical cleverness with your jab about aid. But here is the reality about aid. It does not actually matter when it is cast to provide it's buff unless your in a situation where it can run out in the middle of it. So your casting it at the beginning of the day and using it for only one third of the day and applying rules for movement to everything you do as an excuse to lounge around for additional hours of the day is the problem of you and your table and your DM and not those at my table.
And on a side note. Unless you actually get into situations where you need more health. Aid is a wasted spell and that spell slot can potentially be used better elsewhere. But if your party always needs the reassurances in the amount of hitpoints that is generally less than what can be lost in a single hit at most level of game play. More power to you. Me and my table. We'll stick to tactics that usually mean we're not taking the kind of damage that such assurances are necessary if it all goes to fruition in the ways that we plan and hope for it to do.
This would be a situation which I classify as being "in need of more health", yes.
Understood, but it's a mini "mass healing word" that has no RNG.
It's a bare minimun min-mass healing word. Most that are going to cast Mass healing word once they pick it up at 5th level are going to have put their ASI at 4th level into their spell casting stat. Meaning that they most likely have an 18 or 19 in that stat giving them a +4 modifier with mass healing words RNG of it's healing being 5-8hp at that level on average. So it's lack of RNG doesn't actually help it any. It's fact that you can get it at character level 3 since it's a level 2 spell is useful however in this particular respect.
But mass healing word is a bad way to pick up party members unless you don't have a lot of choice because they juts might go down again.
To me, Bastion of Law feels sort of expensive, in terms of resources, for what it is, please tell me I'm wrong. But then sorcerers don't seem to have that many options for healing and there seem to be some things working against sorcerers for having good AC &/or HP.
To me, Bastion of Law feels sort of expensive, in terms of resources, for what it is, please tell me I'm wrong. But then sorcerers don't seem to have that many options for healing and there seem to be some things working against sorcerers for having good AC &/or HP.
I mained a ClockworkX/Order1 character for a good long while and I rarely used it. The best use is when you plan to toss on an upcast Armor of Agathys to help keep it running longer. You just end up having so many better uses for SP. Twinning, typically, if I'm being honest.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Thanks, I'm not sure just by reading I'm that excited about Armor of Agathys but then I'm not sure I'm excited about any of the options for shielding or otherwise trying not to die spells and I'm pretty sure that my sorcerer is going to be kind of squishy, so I guess I'd better embrace at least one of them.
On Bastion of Law, do I understand that once you have sunk your metamagic into it, there isn't a mechanism to pull some of your metamagic back out to use for something else?
Thanks, I'm not sure just by reading I'm that excited about Armor of Agathys
If you've got a sorc melee multiclass, Armor of Agathys is fantastic
I'm playing a character with a similar feature to Bastion of Law (Runechild's Glyph of Aegis) and the trick is to upcast AoA to its max level, and then use the damage reduction to keep AoA around as long as possible. As long as you still have at least 1 temp hp from it, anyone hitting you with a melee attack takes the full damage
As for your question, you're spending sorcery points to activate Bastion. There's no "pulling points back".
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah it is very expensive. But if done right it can extend the duration of AoA considerably. Or even save someone's life.
Clockwork is pretty tough because of this built-in combo. AoA temp HP can get pretty high. And Bastion can soak quite a lot of damage.
It makes situations where you're swarmed by dozens of melee combatants trivial. They'll just kill themselves trying to fight you and you'll weather those small hits unscathed.
But, like I said, I didn't use it often. It is very expensive on SP and you gorta be really sure you need it. But, when you do need it its pretty amazing to have.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I never felt impressed with Bastion of Law since you're spending 1 sorcery point for a d8. The sorcery point I feel like could be spent for something more useful like a healing quicken or upgraded Armor of Agathys.
Maybe if it was scaled with level or proficiency bonus. Because with Aberrant, at this level you're casting spells where the sorcery points is equal to the spell level.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
^^ this. I'm shocked that after 10 years, this discussion still needs to happen.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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Seems like you don't understand how it works. You spend Sorcery Points for it, but you can still use your spell slots to cast Sorcerer spells. Spell slots and Sorcery Points are two different resources, and Sorcerers start the day with both of them. Aid has an 8 hour duration, so it's usually cast before combat starts, and it usually lasts through the entire adventuring day with just one casting of it. Armor of Agathys lasts an hour, so it's also usually cast before combat starts, and it won't last the entire adventuring day, but that's not a problem because there's a decent chance that the temporary hit points will be gone before the hour is up anyways. Sorcerers aren't like Warlocks - they can cast two spells and still have a bunch of spell slots left over for other spells.
I understand how all of it works. Aid also does only 5hp per level of the spell slot used and starts out at second level. Armor of Agathys does 5hp per level of spell slot used and just pain casting these things because you might get in a fight in the next hour is a wasted spell slot and wasted turns of prep if it doesn't happen. Or if it runs out mid combat before you've used it all. Your not teaching me anything with this explanation of your "clever trick". The reality in practice is that these spells are almost never cast pre-combat despite how it looks all neat and tidy in white room theory crafting and instead tend to be something done in the first turn of combat or at best a surprise round before getting into the actual turns if they are not simply forgone because the player just wants to do "Moar Damage!" and immediately wades into combat like a two year old excited to see the swimming pool.
Also this idea that the adventuring day is practically only 8 hours so that your always covered by 8 hour spells is not true. The reality in play is that adventuring days tend to be 12 to 16 hours long once they get going With something like 8am to 8pm being a normal, not out of the question, day for them considering it is often a decent sunrise to sunset period that many use while traveling with a bit of leeway to either side like stopping early or getting a late start.
If your D&D party isn't smart enough to cast Aid before combat starts, I feel sorry for you. It sounds like your group isn't very good at the strategy aspect of D&D.
The Player's Handbook literally indicates that 8 hours is the expected amount of time spent traveling during the day, and that players should do a constitution saving throw if they're spending more than 8 hours traveling. It's on the first page of chapter 8 in the Player's Handbook.
Or perhaps we don't feel the need to cast aid because we have ways to lock down the enemies and make them more manageable and other Buffs that we use to increase our defenses over a handful of hitpoints.
Also. Traveling is not the sum of adventuring. There are a lot of other things to be done that can fill out the rest of those hours in the day.
Most DMs would apply the "roll a con save to avoid exhaustion" rule for any type of strenuous activity during the day lasting more than 8 hours, and not just for more than 8 hours of travel. But it sounds like your DM is taking it easy on your party because you guys can't even figure out how to cast 8 hour buff spells before combat. I have played two Clerics and my current campaign has a Divine Soul Sorcerer, and none of us have had difficulty remembering to cast Aid before we go out adventuring. It's not exactly one of the hard parts of playing D&D. Casting 8 hour buffs is probably one of the easiest parts of D&D, in fact.
Most DM's do not actually apply that rule to everything. It's a rule designed specific for long and trying overland movements and is specifically marked as "forced march" Not under the heading. "anything your being entirely too active about for variable amounts of time over an overall period."
Your trying to imply your tactical cleverness with your jab about aid. But here is the reality about aid. It does not actually matter when it is cast to provide it's buff unless your in a situation where it can run out in the middle of it. So your casting it at the beginning of the day and using it for only one third of the day and applying rules for movement to everything you do as an excuse to lounge around for additional hours of the day is the problem of you and your table and your DM and not those at my table.
And on a side note. Unless you actually get into situations where you need more health. Aid is a wasted spell and that spell slot can potentially be used better elsewhere. But if your party always needs the reassurances in the amount of hitpoints that is generally less than what can be lost in a single hit at most level of game play. More power to you. Me and my table. We'll stick to tactics that usually mean we're not taking the kind of damage that such assurances are necessary if it all goes to fruition in the ways that we plan and hope for it to do.
Aid is a great way to get a couple KO'd PCs up.
This would be a situation which I classify as being "in need of more health", yes.
Understood, but it's a mini "mass healing word" that has no RNG.
It's a bare minimun min-mass healing word. Most that are going to cast Mass healing word once they pick it up at 5th level are going to have put their ASI at 4th level into their spell casting stat. Meaning that they most likely have an 18 or 19 in that stat giving them a +4 modifier with mass healing words RNG of it's healing being 5-8hp at that level on average. So it's lack of RNG doesn't actually help it any. It's fact that you can get it at character level 3 since it's a level 2 spell is useful however in this particular respect.
But mass healing word is a bad way to pick up party members unless you don't have a lot of choice because they juts might go down again.
To me, Bastion of Law feels sort of expensive, in terms of resources, for what it is, please tell me I'm wrong. But then sorcerers don't seem to have that many options for healing and there seem to be some things working against sorcerers for having good AC &/or HP.
I mained a ClockworkX/Order1 character for a good long while and I rarely used it. The best use is when you plan to toss on an upcast Armor of Agathys to help keep it running longer. You just end up having so many better uses for SP. Twinning, typically, if I'm being honest.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Thanks, I'm not sure just by reading I'm that excited about Armor of Agathys but then I'm not sure I'm excited about any of the options for shielding or otherwise trying not to die spells and I'm pretty sure that my sorcerer is going to be kind of squishy, so I guess I'd better embrace at least one of them.
On Bastion of Law, do I understand that once you have sunk your metamagic into it, there isn't a mechanism to pull some of your metamagic back out to use for something else?
If you've got a sorc melee multiclass, Armor of Agathys is fantastic
I'm playing a character with a similar feature to Bastion of Law (Runechild's Glyph of Aegis) and the trick is to upcast AoA to its max level, and then use the damage reduction to keep AoA around as long as possible. As long as you still have at least 1 temp hp from it, anyone hitting you with a melee attack takes the full damage
As for your question, you're spending sorcery points to activate Bastion. There's no "pulling points back".
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah it is very expensive. But if done right it can extend the duration of AoA considerably. Or even save someone's life.
Clockwork is pretty tough because of this built-in combo. AoA temp HP can get pretty high. And Bastion can soak quite a lot of damage.
It makes situations where you're swarmed by dozens of melee combatants trivial. They'll just kill themselves trying to fight you and you'll weather those small hits unscathed.
But, like I said, I didn't use it often. It is very expensive on SP and you gorta be really sure you need it. But, when you do need it its pretty amazing to have.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I never felt impressed with Bastion of Law since you're spending 1 sorcery point for a d8. The sorcery point I feel like could be spent for something more useful like a healing quicken or upgraded Armor of Agathys.
Maybe if it was scaled with level or proficiency bonus. Because with Aberrant, at this level you're casting spells where the sorcery points is equal to the spell level.
So basically it's this
Clockwork: 1 spell slot= 1d8 ward
Aberrant: 1 sorcery point= 1 spell slot.
Agreed. Twinned Fireball or 3d8.
Pretty obvious which one will take care of an enemy better
You can't twin a fireball
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
^^ this. I'm shocked that after 10 years, this discussion still needs to happen.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha