Yeah, there's no doubt that just spamming Eldritch Blast can be annoying if that's how your game is geared. Some games do hurt the warlock that way.
That said, I can't say that sorcerer is really better off, because I've found that most of my games end around level 11 or so. Thus, most of the time I spend with only a handful of spells and spell slots available. Between needing mage armor, Shield, or some necessary exploration magic like Detect Magic, Dispel or Fly, and trying to balance the need for metamagics and big spells for key moments, I tend to end up falling back to cantrips when dungeon diving as well. Twin-cast Haste is great for my group's front line, but it puts me back in that relying-on-cantrips phase for most of the dungeon crawl.
Its only around level 8 or so, or a bit earlier if you pick up a magical Staff or so, that grants you more freedom, but that's true for the warlock as well as sorcerer. I've actually found that warlock Invocations for detect magic and jump free up a LOT of effort when compared to others. I've also started to enjoy familiars over books, they're insanely good for scouting. Admittedly less useful if your game is nearly 100% combat, but I'm fond of them in my games compared to the sorcerer.
This is part of the reason that sorlock actually works so well. It combines the free and replenishable magics of the warlock with a strong blast, and powerful metamagic. It takes quite a load off the mind when you can actually refill all your spell slots using short rests over the course of a day.
Our cleric is the one that's spelling our DM, so my Divine Sorc may be all the support we have. After getting super bored with my fighter (to the point I hoped it would die) in our last campaign, I decided I wanted ALL the utility. So, I went Sorlock, then proceeded to make un-optimal decisions for flavor reasons. My character may not be perfect, but I am loving it and don't feel that my "less than optimal" choices are hurting the party. If we absolutely, positively need me to deal damage, I CAN EB spam. I may not hit anything (my dice are always cold, such is life) When our cleric isn't there, I've got healing word and 2 rechargeable slots. I'm only Sorc 1/ Lock 2 at the moment, but metamagics will be coming on soon and life is going to get good. In the meantime...I've got some extra hit points from the d8s from warlock and my trusty chain shirt (another of the flavor choices lol)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
With all due respect, going sorlock with Quicken Spell and Agonizing Blast is already high on the optimization end. You don't really need much more beyond access to fireball and maybe some other to quicken. The rest is open ended based on the needs of the chronicle.
Oh, I know that quick EB is high on the end of optimization. I will probably end up with quicken and twin, but I doubt I will be dropping two EB/round. The original plan was to have distant/twin, so I could use cure wounds and inflict wounds (divine racial spell) from range. I changed to healing word and bane (really, I'd rather have bless, but it's not thematically appropriate for this character) to let the cleric be the one capable of "big" heals because I only planned to heal in a pinch. Once I dumped both cure wounds and inflict wounds, distant made no sense to me. The other metamagics didn't really interest me, so quicken it is.
Unfortunately, every single move I've made is straight out of the power gamer sorlock playbook. Hexblade, EB (with AB and RB), quicken/twin, Healing Word...it totally looks like having to explain to your GF, "Baby, this isn't what it looks like..."
In my defense, I am only using a chain shirt (no shield or scale) from hexblade, I'm not using a strong melee weapon (sticking to my trusty dagger), and the rest of my spell selection is thematic rather than what I'd pick on a power gaming character (infestation fluffed to spiders), chaos bolt rather than guiding bolt (which imo is better) etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I don't mind combat spamming Eldritch Blast, as it doesn't seem that different from other classes that use ranged or melee weapons.
I've noticed a lot of this discussion is essentially focused on combat optimization. I didn't go that route with my fiendish warlock. They're a con-man. Mask of a Thousand Faces is a necessary part of the build, as is the Actor Feat. With this character its all about optimizing the Deception skill.
I don't mind combat spamming Eldritch Blast, as it doesn't seem that different from other classes that use ranged or melee weapons.
I've noticed a lot of this discussion is essentially focused on combat optimization. I didn't go that route with my fiendish warlock. They're a con-man. Mask of a Thousand Faces is a necessary part of the build, as is the Actor Feat. With this character its all about optimizing the Deception skill.
YESSS So much this! I took Deception proficiency as well on my Archfey Warlock with Disguise and it is so much fun to screw with the DM's NPC's.
I don't mind combat spamming Eldritch Blast, as it doesn't seem that different from other classes that use ranged or melee weapons.
I've noticed a lot of this discussion is essentially focused on combat optimization. I didn't go that route with my fiendish warlock. They're a con-man. Mask of a Thousand Faces is a necessary part of the build, as is the Actor Feat. With this character its all about optimizing the Deception skill.
That's exactly why I don't want to spam EB. I've played mostly melees since the mid 80s. I'm sick of spamming my sword or bow. EB is more of the same.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Hey guys I need some help, so in the LMOP campaign I tried to use my Pseudodragon (This was when I was LVL 3 with Pact of the Chain Warlock) to communicate with the other half of the party in the Redbrands hideout because we had a group of 8 players so we figured we could cover the hideout faster if we split up. My DM was confused about how I would do that and I told my Dm that I could communicate with my familiar telepathically and that my Pseudodragon could send messages in the form of images and what both of us are looking for is clarification on the Pseudodragon and him being a familiar.
As long as you picked the Voice of the Chain Master Eldritch Invocation you’re correct. Otherwise your telepathic link to your familiar is only when it’s within 100’ of you.
I didn't read through the whole thread, but invocations are amazing. Master of Myriad Forms is my favorite, because unlimited alter self, to adapt to most situations. The different sights to know your surroundings well, better than everyone else. The eldritch blasts boosters can make it so much more powerful.
Then there's the subclasses that give great powers, like the 14th level ones for fiend and celestial. Great old one gives good telepathy, maybe you want to make a character that wouldn't be able to talk normally (I personally made a crab that was granted knowledge by Cthulhu because he wanted to watch it for fun.)
Also the pact boons like tome, chain, and blade. Blade lets you turn a magic weapon into another if you do the ritual, so you can even gain proficiency in it, then throw it and return it. Tome gives a lot of cantrips, then book of shadows later on. And chain, pseudo dragon can fight for you, which is cool, or even something else with poison.
Blade lets you turn a magic weapon into another if you do the ritual, so you can even gain proficiency in it, then throw it and return it.
Uh, no. Nothing lets you convert an existing magical weapon into another (anything), and summoning your Pact of the Tome weapon requires an action. You can, however, use the Improved Pact Weapon invocation to create a +1 weapon in a greater variety of forms than the Hexblade weapon allows.
My simple answer is no. The warlock is not the right choice for you. Warlock uses spells to enhance themselves. They are not good spell casters! If you like slinging spells warlock is not right for you. If you want cantrips, thinking and a wide range of options choose warlock
I used to like Master of Myriad forms but then I realized that you can get Disguise Self at will and so that was kind f a bummer because you can't get Master of Myriad Forms until you're LVL 15 which is why I like the Shroud of Shadow because you can be invisible at will which in my opinion is a lot more useful at LVL 15 although being able to have unlimited Alter Self really shines when you're campaign is all dependent on socializing.
My simple answer is no. The warlock is not the right choice for you. Warlock uses spells to enhance themselves. They are not good spell casters! If you like slinging spells warlock is not right for you. If you want cantrips, thinking and a wide range of options choose warlock
Agreed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
I play a fallen aasimar pact of tome hexblade warlock. I know pact of the tome doesnt seem like it would go with hexblade, pact of the blade does, but pact of the tome is very useful
I play a fallen aasimar pact of tome hexblade warlock. I know pact of the tome doesnt seem like it would go with hexblade, pact of the blade does, but pact of the tome is very useful
One of the main reasons I have seen that people take Hexblade, is that they want blade-pact like abilities, without having to take Pact of the Blade. Tome gives you the option to take several damage dealing cantrips you might not otherwise have access to, which makes perfect sense for a Hexblade, who's main focus is combat.
yeah true. its also good to get control flames when you have a pyro wizard in your party
They are probably the weakest full caster in the game, if they can be considered one even. Still they will have more tricks and gimmicks than a mundane class. Their round to round DPS with no resource loss is midlevel, where as a wizards cantrip is feeble. They are sort of a balance between a consistent DPs class and a full spell caster with tricks. Their invocations with the right build and campaign can add a interesting element and can be quite effective in those circumstances.
But when it comes down to it I think all classes should be played for the RP purposes. Is a monk mechanically worse than a wizard, oh heck yeah, but the monk will probably contribute enough that they have fun(though with monk its a close call). And once you hit that threshold imo all that matters is the RP.
They are probably the weakest full caster in the game, if they can be considered one even. Still they will have more tricks and gimmicks than a mundane class.
I agree with this point. Warlocks live by using the tricks that they got. Invocations are at least a big of a deal to them as their spells. With the broad horizon of subclasses you got, there is a lot of ways you can make your Warlock efficient to play with and they can fill various niches. Just don't expect to play like a fullcaster. Play like a Warlock.
Yeah, there's no doubt that just spamming Eldritch Blast can be annoying if that's how your game is geared. Some games do hurt the warlock that way.
That said, I can't say that sorcerer is really better off, because I've found that most of my games end around level 11 or so. Thus, most of the time I spend with only a handful of spells and spell slots available. Between needing mage armor, Shield, or some necessary exploration magic like Detect Magic, Dispel or Fly, and trying to balance the need for metamagics and big spells for key moments, I tend to end up falling back to cantrips when dungeon diving as well. Twin-cast Haste is great for my group's front line, but it puts me back in that relying-on-cantrips phase for most of the dungeon crawl.
Its only around level 8 or so, or a bit earlier if you pick up a magical Staff or so, that grants you more freedom, but that's true for the warlock as well as sorcerer. I've actually found that warlock Invocations for detect magic and jump free up a LOT of effort when compared to others. I've also started to enjoy familiars over books, they're insanely good for scouting. Admittedly less useful if your game is nearly 100% combat, but I'm fond of them in my games compared to the sorcerer.
This is part of the reason that sorlock actually works so well. It combines the free and replenishable magics of the warlock with a strong blast, and powerful metamagic. It takes quite a load off the mind when you can actually refill all your spell slots using short rests over the course of a day.
Our cleric is the one that's spelling our DM, so my Divine Sorc may be all the support we have. After getting super bored with my fighter (to the point I hoped it would die) in our last campaign, I decided I wanted ALL the utility. So, I went Sorlock, then proceeded to make un-optimal decisions for flavor reasons. My character may not be perfect, but I am loving it and don't feel that my "less than optimal" choices are hurting the party. If we absolutely, positively need me to deal damage, I CAN EB spam. I may not hit anything (my dice are always cold, such is life) When our cleric isn't there, I've got healing word and 2 rechargeable slots. I'm only Sorc 1/ Lock 2 at the moment, but metamagics will be coming on soon and life is going to get good. In the meantime...I've got some extra hit points from the d8s from warlock and my trusty chain shirt (another of the flavor choices lol)
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
With all due respect, going sorlock with Quicken Spell and Agonizing Blast is already high on the optimization end. You don't really need much more beyond access to fireball and maybe some other to quicken. The rest is open ended based on the needs of the chronicle.
Oh, I know that quick EB is high on the end of optimization. I will probably end up with quicken and twin, but I doubt I will be dropping two EB/round. The original plan was to have distant/twin, so I could use cure wounds and inflict wounds (divine racial spell) from range. I changed to healing word and bane (really, I'd rather have bless, but it's not thematically appropriate for this character) to let the cleric be the one capable of "big" heals because I only planned to heal in a pinch. Once I dumped both cure wounds and inflict wounds, distant made no sense to me. The other metamagics didn't really interest me, so quicken it is.
Unfortunately, every single move I've made is straight out of the power gamer sorlock playbook. Hexblade, EB (with AB and RB), quicken/twin, Healing Word...it totally looks like having to explain to your GF, "Baby, this isn't what it looks like..."
In my defense, I am only using a chain shirt (no shield or scale) from hexblade, I'm not using a strong melee weapon (sticking to my trusty dagger), and the rest of my spell selection is thematic rather than what I'd pick on a power gaming character (infestation fluffed to spiders), chaos bolt rather than guiding bolt (which imo is better) etc.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I don't mind combat spamming Eldritch Blast, as it doesn't seem that different from other classes that use ranged or melee weapons.
I've noticed a lot of this discussion is essentially focused on combat optimization. I didn't go that route with my fiendish warlock. They're a con-man. Mask of a Thousand Faces is a necessary part of the build, as is the Actor Feat. With this character its all about optimizing the Deception skill.
Fierna is the best Duchess of Hell
YESSS So much this! I took Deception proficiency as well on my Archfey Warlock with Disguise and it is so much fun to screw with the DM's NPC's.
That's exactly why I don't want to spam EB. I've played mostly melees since the mid 80s. I'm sick of spamming my sword or bow. EB is more of the same.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Hey guys I need some help, so in the LMOP campaign I tried to use my Pseudodragon (This was when I was LVL 3 with Pact of the Chain Warlock) to communicate with the other half of the party in the Redbrands hideout because we had a group of 8 players so we figured we could cover the hideout faster if we split up. My DM was confused about how I would do that and I told my Dm that I could communicate with my familiar telepathically and that my Pseudodragon could send messages in the form of images and what both of us are looking for is clarification on the Pseudodragon and him being a familiar.
As long as you picked the Voice of the Chain Master Eldritch Invocation you’re correct. Otherwise your telepathic link to your familiar is only when it’s within 100’ of you.
Professional computer geek
I didn't read through the whole thread, but invocations are amazing. Master of Myriad Forms is my favorite, because unlimited alter self, to adapt to most situations. The different sights to know your surroundings well, better than everyone else. The eldritch blasts boosters can make it so much more powerful.
Then there's the subclasses that give great powers, like the 14th level ones for fiend and celestial. Great old one gives good telepathy, maybe you want to make a character that wouldn't be able to talk normally (I personally made a crab that was granted knowledge by Cthulhu because he wanted to watch it for fun.)
Also the pact boons like tome, chain, and blade. Blade lets you turn a magic weapon into another if you do the ritual, so you can even gain proficiency in it, then throw it and return it. Tome gives a lot of cantrips, then book of shadows later on. And chain, pseudo dragon can fight for you, which is cool, or even something else with poison.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Uh, no. Nothing lets you convert an existing magical weapon into another (anything), and summoning your Pact of the Tome weapon requires an action. You can, however, use the Improved Pact Weapon invocation to create a +1 weapon in a greater variety of forms than the Hexblade weapon allows.
My simple answer is no. The warlock is not the right choice for you. Warlock uses spells to enhance themselves. They are not good spell casters! If you like slinging spells warlock is not right for you. If you want cantrips, thinking and a wide range of options choose warlock
I used to like Master of Myriad forms but then I realized that you can get Disguise Self at will and so that was kind f a bummer because you can't get Master of Myriad Forms until you're LVL 15 which is why I like the Shroud of Shadow because you can be invisible at will which in my opinion is a lot more useful at LVL 15 although being able to have unlimited Alter Self really shines when you're campaign is all dependent on socializing.
Thanks I already have the Invocation so that should be really nice, I could also freak out my party by having my dragon talk to them in my voice.
Agreed.
DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
I play a fallen aasimar pact of tome hexblade warlock. I know pact of the tome doesnt seem like it would go with hexblade, pact of the blade does, but pact of the tome is very useful
Current Character: https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/MajestorSteel1103/characters/44226318
Leader of the Cult of ANTI-Sedge
Priest of the Supreme Court of Sauce as well as one of the three founders (others being GreatAxeblade and ParticleHex)
yeah true. its also good to get control flames when you have a pyro wizard in your party
Current Character: https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/MajestorSteel1103/characters/44226318
Leader of the Cult of ANTI-Sedge
Priest of the Supreme Court of Sauce as well as one of the three founders (others being GreatAxeblade and ParticleHex)
They are probably the weakest full caster in the game, if they can be considered one even. Still they will have more tricks and gimmicks than a mundane class. Their round to round DPS with no resource loss is midlevel, where as a wizards cantrip is feeble. They are sort of a balance between a consistent DPs class and a full spell caster with tricks. Their invocations with the right build and campaign can add a interesting element and can be quite effective in those circumstances.
But when it comes down to it I think all classes should be played for the RP purposes. Is a monk mechanically worse than a wizard, oh heck yeah, but the monk will probably contribute enough that they have fun(though with monk its a close call). And once you hit that threshold imo all that matters is the RP.
I agree with this point. Warlocks live by using the tricks that they got. Invocations are at least a big of a deal to them as their spells. With the broad horizon of subclasses you got, there is a lot of ways you can make your Warlock efficient to play with and they can fill various niches. Just don't expect to play like a fullcaster. Play like a Warlock.
That is a false dichotomy. Some of us enjoy roleplaying highly effective character builds.