Quick question...So obviously Warlocks who have the Devil's Sight Invocation and cast Eldritch Blast will more or less be invisible (heavily obscured is the language used) to any creature who also doesn't have Devil's Sight. What I want to know is, does the advantage apply to *every* Eldritch Blast cast that round? RAW say "If you are hidden — both unseen and unheard — when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." However...Eldritch Blast's cast time is instantaneous, so while it potentially has 2, 3 or 4 separate attack rolls, if they are all simultaneous, then you shouldn't loose advantage until after they all hit or miss. Am I mistaken?
Also, how does one go about targeting an unseen creature? Obviously any attack rolls against me have disadvantage, but say I use my bonus action to enter stealth and move after my attack hits. Disadvantage doesn't stack so would the attacker have to make a perception roll to guess where I am? And if so, would that also be at disadvantage?
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
The advantage comes from being "unseen" by the target, whilst being able to see them. Unless you somehow lose Darkness between the first and second attack rolls, you'll still have advantage.
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
The advantage comes from being "unseen" by the target, whilst being able to see them. Unless you somehow lose Darkness between the first and second attack rolls, you'll still have advantage.
So what about targeting? Regardless I am unseen, so I get advantage, but the PHB mentions that if you target the wrong location, then you fail regardless. How does targeting the location of an unseen creature work?
Depends on how the DM rules unseen targets. Some use the basic rule of attacks at disadvantage, while others prefer a more cat and mouse approach.
My approach is if the player is being stealthy (hiding between attacks like a rogue using cunning action) then the opponent needs to find them via a skill check or guess. If they are not being stealthy then I default to disadvantage.
Now if the spell is a saving throw and individual target say toll the dead then you cannot target an unseen opponent.
Different tables will have different rules consult your local DM.
So if any of you were a DM, how would you rule on the following scenario:
I use Darkness from Stealth on turn 1 and obviously don’t attack. RAW say attacking gives away your location, so would you say I was detectable?
On turn two I cast minor illusions filling the area with screams in order to hide the sound of my movements. Would I be free to attack and *then* move without being detected?
There is about no way to move, or stand still for that matter without a chance of being detected. No matter the precautions you take, there will be a stealth roll, maybe with advantage, but always a roll — and there’s always a chance you roll badly. And other creatures will always have at least a passive perception chance to notice you, maybe better if they want to take an action trying to find you.
Even forgetting the die luck, maybe they have devil’s sight themselves, so they just watch you doing all this, wondering who you think you fooling, maybe they have tremorsense, or advantage on rolls involving smell and don’t care about sight and sound so much. Or maybe they just have a high wisdom and expertise in perception, and just notice you. There’s no way to guarantee being undetected.
There is about no way to move, or stand still for that matter without a chance of being detected. No matter the precautions you take, there will be a stealth roll, maybe with advantage, but always a roll — and there’s always a chance you roll badly. And other creatures will always have at least a passive perception chance to notice you, maybe better if they want to take an action trying to find you.
Even forgetting the die luck, maybe they have devil’s sight themselves, so they just watch you doing all this, wondering who you think you fooling, maybe they have tremorsense, or advantage on rolls involving smell and don’t care about sight and sound so much. Or maybe they just have a high wisdom and expertise in perception, and just notice you. There’s no way to guarantee being undetected.
Oh I get that, just trying to maximize the effectiveness of darkness. I get it’s worthless if the foe has devil’s sight, but given the low AC of Warlocks I’m trying to make myself as hard to detect as possible.
ideally I could attack and then stealth but without 2 levels of rouge I don’t think that’s possible, so I’m trying to come up with ways to attack and stay hidden
It is a absolutely stupid rule that is put in place to make the game smoother. But, RAW unless you hide they know where you are no matter how many senses are disrupted. Some tables are willing to break from RAW for rules they don't like. This is one where I'd break from if I were GMing. Yeah it makes this and invisibility more potent. But it makes no damn sense, you might know the general vicinity people are in if they are moving and making noise but the exact spot no chance. Honestly the entire stealth system in D&D is terrible.
There is about no way to move, or stand still for that matter without a chance of being detected. No matter the precautions you take, there will be a stealth roll, maybe with advantage, but always a roll — and there’s always a chance you roll badly. And other creatures will always have at least a passive perception chance to notice you, maybe better if they want to take an action trying to find you.
Even forgetting the die luck, maybe they have devil’s sight themselves, so they just watch you doing all this, wondering who you think you fooling, maybe they have tremorsense, or advantage on rolls involving smell and don’t care about sight and sound so much. Or maybe they just have a high wisdom and expertise in perception, and just notice you. There’s no way to guarantee being undetected.
Oh I get that, just trying to maximize the effectiveness of darkness. I get it’s worthless if the foe has devil’s sight, but given the low AC of Warlocks I’m trying to make myself as hard to detect as possible.
ideally I could attack and then stealth but without 2 levels of rouge I don’t think that’s possible, so I’m trying to come up with ways to attack and stay hidden
Why aren’t you just eldritch blasting them from 120 feet away, with the fighter/barb/pally in between as a meat shield? Unless you’re a hexblade, what are you doing that you need to get close to attack them? And if you are a hexblade, you have medium armor, a shield and a dex bonus; you’re just fine for melee.
There is about no way to move, or stand still for that matter without a chance of being detected. No matter the precautions you take, there will be a stealth roll, maybe with advantage, but always a roll — and there’s always a chance you roll badly. And other creatures will always have at least a passive perception chance to notice you, maybe better if they want to take an action trying to find you.
Even forgetting the die luck, maybe they have devil’s sight themselves, so they just watch you doing all this, wondering who you think you fooling, maybe they have tremorsense, or advantage on rolls involving smell and don’t care about sight and sound so much. Or maybe they just have a high wisdom and expertise in perception, and just notice you. There’s no way to guarantee being undetected.
Oh I get that, just trying to maximize the effectiveness of darkness. I get it’s worthless if the foe has devil’s sight, but given the low AC of Warlocks I’m trying to make myself as hard to detect as possible.
ideally I could attack and then stealth but without 2 levels of rouge I don’t think that’s possible, so I’m trying to come up with ways to attack and stay hidden
Why aren’t you just eldritch blasting them from 120 feet away, with the fighter/barb/pally in between as a meat shield? Unless you’re a hexblade, what are you doing that you need to get close to attack them? And if you are a hexblade, you have medium armor, a shield and a dex bonus; you’re just fine for melee.
This makes sense, but so far early on, the campaign I'm in hasn't given me enough space to spread my wings :)
But yea, I guess all in all, I'm over thinking things and once we get some more spacing the disadvantage is enough
Your fighter/barb/pally probably doesn't have Devil's sight either, so they may be less thrilled overall with the advantages that darkness gives you.
As dumb as it sounds, Darkness more or less results in a neutral field for anyone who doesn't have Devil's Sight.
Attackers can't see defenders *and* defenders can't see attackers, so there is no advantage either way. Rogues will probably be more upset because RAW they can't apply sneak attack
I think a lot of DMs homebrew that all incoming attacks have disadvantage since everyone is blinded (except the ones with Devil's Sight). But admittedly that could bring combat to a screeching halt...
Your fighter/barb/pally probably doesn't have Devil's sight either, so they may be less thrilled overall with the advantages that darkness gives you.
As dumb as it sounds, Darkness more or less results in a neutral field for anyone who doesn't have Devil's Sight.
Attackers can't see defenders *and* defenders can't see attackers, so there is no advantage either way. Rogues will probably be more upset because RAW they can't apply sneak attack
I think a lot of DMs homebrew that all incoming attacks have disadvantage since everyone is blinded (except the ones with Devil's Sight). But admittedly that could bring combat to a screeching halt...
It's even because Attacking has both advantage and disadvantage. It has advantage because the enemy can't see the attack coming but it has disadvantage because you can't see what your attacking. So that's how it becomes a wash when everybody is in darkness. Further instances of disadvantage don't turn it back to disadvantage unless the DM is using homebrew rules.
This screws over rogues because even though they canceled it out they still had disadvantage on the roll. Making Sneak attack useless. So even with positioning they are down one of their biggest abilities.
Your fighter/barb/pally probably doesn't have Devil's sight either, so they may be less thrilled overall with the advantages that darkness gives you.
As dumb as it sounds, Darkness more or less results in a neutral field for anyone who doesn't have Devil's Sight.
Attackers can't see defenders *and* defenders can't see attackers, so there is no advantage either way. Rogues will probably be more upset because RAW they can't apply sneak attack
I think a lot of DMs homebrew that all incoming attacks have disadvantage since everyone is blinded (except the ones with Devil's Sight). But admittedly that could bring combat to a screeching halt...
It's even because Attacking has both advantage and disadvantage. It has advantage because the enemy can't see the attack coming but it has disadvantage because you can't see what your attacking. So that's how it becomes a wash when everybody is in darkness. Further instances of disadvantage don't turn it back to disadvantage unless the DM is using homebrew rules.
This screws over rogues because even though they canceled it out they still had disadvantage on the roll. Making Sneak attack useless. So even with positioning they are down one of their biggest abilities.
I get the logic as to why it's a wash, but realistically, two people fighting who can't see each other won't be as effective as the same two people when they can see each other.
So RAW, yes, it's a wash, but lots of times DMs do homebrew it as disadvantage on all attacks.
Your fighter/barb/pally probably doesn't have Devil's sight either, so they may be less thrilled overall with the advantages that darkness gives you.
As dumb as it sounds, Darkness more or less results in a neutral field for anyone who doesn't have Devil's Sight.
Attackers can't see defenders *and* defenders can't see attackers, so there is no advantage either way. Rogues will probably be more upset because RAW they can't apply sneak attack
I think a lot of DMs homebrew that all incoming attacks have disadvantage since everyone is blinded (except the ones with Devil's Sight). But admittedly that could bring combat to a screeching halt...
It's even because Attacking has both advantage and disadvantage. It has advantage because the enemy can't see the attack coming but it has disadvantage because you can't see what your attacking. So that's how it becomes a wash when everybody is in darkness. Further instances of disadvantage don't turn it back to disadvantage unless the DM is using homebrew rules.
This screws over rogues because even though they canceled it out they still had disadvantage on the roll. Making Sneak attack useless. So even with positioning they are down one of their biggest abilities.
I get the logic as to why it's a wash, but realistically, two people fighting who can't see each other won't be as effective as the same two people when they can see each other.
So RAW, yes, it's a wash, but lots of times DMs do homebrew it as disadvantage on all attacks.
Relatively speaking. While they might not be as good as when they can see each other. Being handicapped in the same way reduces them both equally. Putting them more or less on the footing that they are when they can't see each other. But at a lower skill cap than when not handicapped in such a way. So by Logic. They are as good. Or rather neither of them isn't as good but they aren't as good in the exact same way which still makes it relatively "fair" and penalizing them further is basically giving them even more of a handicap for no reason.
For example. One person having their arm tied behind their back to fight puts one person at a disadvantage. However if both opponents have an arm tied behind their back they balance out again under this new restriction by canceling out the disadvantage they have against their opponent by the advantage they technically have over their opponent from being disabled in this way. Basically putting them back in a position of pure skill balance even if it's not their optimal maximum skill. Adding further disadvantage is just punishing both participants further for no gain and then excusing it with phrases like "it's not realistic" when it's actually the opposite. It's not realistic to penalize them even more and the rules don't support it.
Your fighter/barb/pally probably doesn't have Devil's sight either, so they may be less thrilled overall with the advantages that darkness gives you.
Unless you hang back and cast eldritch blast from inside your darkness and the fighter/barb/pally fight toe to toe with the enemy outside the darkness.
Quick question...So obviously Warlocks who have the Devil's Sight Invocation and cast Eldritch Blast will more or less be invisible (heavily obscured is the language used) to any creature who also doesn't have Devil's Sight. What I want to know is, does the advantage apply to *every* Eldritch Blast cast that round? RAW say "If you are hidden — both unseen and unheard — when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." However...Eldritch Blast's cast time is instantaneous, so while it potentially has 2, 3 or 4 separate attack rolls, if they are all simultaneous, then you shouldn't loose advantage until after they all hit or miss. Am I mistaken?
Also, how does one go about targeting an unseen creature? Obviously any attack rolls against me have disadvantage, but say I use my bonus action to enter stealth and move after my attack hits. Disadvantage doesn't stack so would the attacker have to make a perception roll to guess where I am? And if so, would that also be at disadvantage?
Ok...that makes sense
Thanks!
So what about targeting? Regardless I am unseen, so I get advantage, but the PHB mentions that if you target the wrong location, then you fail regardless. How does targeting the location of an unseen creature work?
Depends on how the DM rules unseen targets. Some use the basic rule of attacks at disadvantage, while others prefer a more cat and mouse approach.
My approach is if the player is being stealthy (hiding between attacks like a rogue using cunning action) then the opponent needs to find them via a skill check or guess. If they are not being stealthy then I default to disadvantage.
Now if the spell is a saving throw and individual target say toll the dead then you cannot target an unseen opponent.
Different tables will have different rules consult your local DM.
So if any of you were a DM, how would you rule on the following scenario:
I use Darkness from Stealth on turn 1 and obviously don’t attack. RAW say attacking gives away your location, so would you say I was detectable?
On turn two I cast minor illusions filling the area with screams in order to hide the sound of my movements. Would I be free to attack and *then* move without being detected?
There is about no way to move, or stand still for that matter without a chance of being detected. No matter the precautions you take, there will be a stealth roll, maybe with advantage, but always a roll — and there’s always a chance you roll badly. And other creatures will always have at least a passive perception chance to notice you, maybe better if they want to take an action trying to find you.
Even forgetting the die luck, maybe they have devil’s sight themselves, so they just watch you doing all this, wondering who you think you fooling, maybe they have tremorsense, or advantage on rolls involving smell and don’t care about sight and sound so much. Or maybe they just have a high wisdom and expertise in perception, and just notice you. There’s no way to guarantee being undetected.
Oh I get that, just trying to maximize the effectiveness of darkness. I get it’s worthless if the foe has devil’s sight, but given the low AC of Warlocks I’m trying to make myself as hard to detect as possible.
ideally I could attack and then stealth but without 2 levels of rouge I don’t think that’s possible, so I’m trying to come up with ways to attack and stay hidden
It is a absolutely stupid rule that is put in place to make the game smoother. But, RAW unless you hide they know where you are no matter how many senses are disrupted. Some tables are willing to break from RAW for rules they don't like. This is one where I'd break from if I were GMing. Yeah it makes this and invisibility more potent. But it makes no damn sense, you might know the general vicinity people are in if they are moving and making noise but the exact spot no chance. Honestly the entire stealth system in D&D is terrible.
Why aren’t you just eldritch blasting them from 120 feet away, with the fighter/barb/pally in between as a meat shield? Unless you’re a hexblade, what are you doing that you need to get close to attack them? And if you are a hexblade, you have medium armor, a shield and a dex bonus; you’re just fine for melee.
This makes sense, but so far early on, the campaign I'm in hasn't given me enough space to spread my wings :)
But yea, I guess all in all, I'm over thinking things and once we get some more spacing the disadvantage is enough
Your fighter/barb/pally probably doesn't have Devil's sight either, so they may be less thrilled overall with the advantages that darkness gives you.
And this is how you make a stealth Lock. Now combine with some levels of sorcerer and bam you have a stealthy eldritch sniper!
As dumb as it sounds, Darkness more or less results in a neutral field for anyone who doesn't have Devil's Sight.
Attackers can't see defenders *and* defenders can't see attackers, so there is no advantage either way. Rogues will probably be more upset because RAW they can't apply sneak attack
I think a lot of DMs homebrew that all incoming attacks have disadvantage since everyone is blinded (except the ones with Devil's Sight). But admittedly that could bring combat to a screeching halt...
It's even because Attacking has both advantage and disadvantage. It has advantage because the enemy can't see the attack coming but it has disadvantage because you can't see what your attacking. So that's how it becomes a wash when everybody is in darkness. Further instances of disadvantage don't turn it back to disadvantage unless the DM is using homebrew rules.
This screws over rogues because even though they canceled it out they still had disadvantage on the roll. Making Sneak attack useless. So even with positioning they are down one of their biggest abilities.
I get the logic as to why it's a wash, but realistically, two people fighting who can't see each other won't be as effective as the same two people when they can see each other.
So RAW, yes, it's a wash, but lots of times DMs do homebrew it as disadvantage on all attacks.
Relatively speaking. While they might not be as good as when they can see each other. Being handicapped in the same way reduces them both equally. Putting them more or less on the footing that they are when they can't see each other. But at a lower skill cap than when not handicapped in such a way. So by Logic. They are as good. Or rather neither of them isn't as good but they aren't as good in the exact same way which still makes it relatively "fair" and penalizing them further is basically giving them even more of a handicap for no reason.
For example. One person having their arm tied behind their back to fight puts one person at a disadvantage. However if both opponents have an arm tied behind their back they balance out again under this new restriction by canceling out the disadvantage they have against their opponent by the advantage they technically have over their opponent from being disabled in this way. Basically putting them back in a position of pure skill balance even if it's not their optimal maximum skill. Adding further disadvantage is just punishing both participants further for no gain and then excusing it with phrases like "it's not realistic" when it's actually the opposite. It's not realistic to penalize them even more and the rules don't support it.
Unless you hang back and cast eldritch blast from inside your darkness and the fighter/barb/pally fight toe to toe with the enemy outside the darkness.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
No roll needed. Fireball.
TBF, if you are dropping Fireball on just me, I'd call that a win unless it knocks me unconscious.