I’m reading the rules for Pact of the Blade closely because I’m thinking about playing one and it looks to me like summoning a Pact Weapon takes a full Action instead of a Bonus Action. Is that correct?
That means I’d have to always keep my Pact Weapon summoned except when I was trying to appear to be unarmed or else I’d miss the first round of every combat.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
It makes the Hexblade a lot less powerful than I thought they are. Unless they keep their pact weapon summoned all of the time, losing a full round of combat to summon their pact weapon is a huge cost!
It's a full action. Changing the weapon's shape probably is, I don't know. It's really cool to be able to do that. It's also cool to have a weapon that can't ever really be taken away from you. Sadly, as the game stands, the most you can get is a +1 weapon that can change shape. When you get powerful enough to summon a bow, it's debatable if you can summon ammo for it.
I love the idea of playing a Warlock. They're a very cool concept, but even in my limited experience, I've seen why people complain about the class in general, and Hexblades in particular.
Warlocks are totally and entirely build to do one thing well, and that is cast Eldritch Blast. Any time you're not using it, you're doing something less effective with your time. That's perfectly fine for roleplaying, nobody ought to tell you not to play whatever concept you have in mind, but if you care about power, you need to realize that a Warlock isn't good for much else than spamming Eldritch Blast.
Hexblades take a character who makes a fantastic ranged blaster, and turns them into something focused on being in melee with low hit points and a fairly poor armor class. Their primary score is almost always going to be Charisma, and now they need Dex and Con. You can get around the Charisma problem easily, but you'll need high scores and Con and Dex. Easy to do, but ask yourself, you're still weak, wouldn't it be better to play a class that's good at melee? Fighters are a short rest based class who do it a lot better.
No matter what I've said, I'm all about people picking whatever kind of character they like. I'll work with anything. I just noticed that people who make those "power build" take only two or three levels of Hexblade (no other type of Warlock ever seems to be mentioned) and a couple levels of Fighter is also very common. I've played both a little, I know why.
So in the end, yes. It's a full action. Changing the weapon's shape probably is, I don't know. It's really cool to be able to do that. It's also cool to have a weapon that can't ever really be taken away from you. Sadly, as the game stands, the most you can get is a +1 weapon that can change shape. When you get powerful enough to summon a bow, it's debatable if you can summon ammo for it.
I gotta disagree with you here. Hexblades needs too much stats to be viable? Ever tried a Monk or a Paladin? Those classes need just as much if not more stats than a Hexblade and they seem to do fine. With a Half Elf and Point Buy you can get a rather tanky Hexblade with 8 STR 14 DEX 16 CON 10 INT 10 WIS and 17 CHA. But the true power of the Half Elf Hexblade as a melee martial is their unique ability to combo Great Weapon Master with Elven Accuracy resulting in damage that can easily match if not surpass what Eldritch Blast is capable of. Hexblades have on demand advantage from level 3 with Darkness and Devils Sight, although it will annoy your party members but that problem is solved when you hit level 7 and get Shadows of Moil.
Now your second point about them having low armor class and low hit points. I concede a D8 hit die is not the best but it is on par with other melee classes like Monks and Rogues. Also you have 16 starting CON to help compensate. About the low armor class you can wear medium armor this means around 16 at level 1 with scale mail. Again this is on par with Monks and slightly higher than most Rogues, heck it is equal to chain mail. Against tougher enemies you can even forgo your Heavy weapon and go sword and board because you can use another weapon through Hex Warrior making the Hexblade a versatile front liner who can dish out damage or be more tanky if the situation calls for it.
To top it all off the Hexblade can also go back to the traditional lock ways of spamming EBs. So in my opinion Hexblades take a fantastic ranged blaster and turns them into a versatile damage dealer than can fulfil many different roles in combat who can still if the situation calls for it be a fantastic ranged blaster.
The whole point of Hexblades is that they aren't MAD, not that they are. A Hexblade only needs Charisma for magic and melee, and then 14 Dex for AC and as much Con as possible. There's no great need to be a half-elf, even - half-elves are great for solving MADness problems, but Hexblades are so SAD, you're fine e.g. just being an elf (so you still qualify for Elven Accuracy). And of course since you can pact bond with any magic weapon you find, you aren't locked to at best +1 weaponry. If you find a +3 greatsword, have at it.
Eldritch Blast is a great spell, but let's do some math on it. Assuming standard Charisma progression (+3, +4 at L4, +5 at L8) and Agonizing and Repelling Blast, ignoring accuracy for now (damage values do not include Hex):
L1: 5.5 Damage
L2: 8.5 Damage, 10 foot knockback
L4: 9.5 Damage, 10 foot knockback
L5: 19 Damage, 20 foot knockback
L8: 21 Damage, 20 foot knockback
L11:31.5 Damage, 30 foot knockback
L17:42 Damage, 40 foot knockback
Assuming Hex is always up all the time forever:
L1: 9 Damage
L2: 12 Damage, 10 foot knockback
L4: 13 Damage, 10 foot knockback
L5: 26 Damage, 20 foot knockback
L8: 28 Damage, 20 foot knockback
L11:42 Damage, 30 foot knockback
L17:56 Damage, 40 foot knockback
Hexblade is fundamentally, radically different in how you approach it - it unlocks combinations with feats like GWM, PAM, Sentinel, SS, CBE, and Gunner. It's always risky making assumptions about combat, but if we're leaning into Elven Accuracy, it's pretty certain we're leaning into Devil's Sight and Darkness, so here's an analysis assuming that if Darkness is up (it's available at Warlock 3), a) the Warlock can walk out of melee without provoking an OA and hence will do so, stopping with the foe within the darkness bubble, and b) the foe will leave the darkness bubble so they can function, triggering booming blade (if they don't, under our assumptions their turn will be wasted anyway, which is worth way more damage than booming blade does). I'll assume a rapier at level 1 and a greatsword at level 3. I won't assume Thirsting Blade, since that's incompatible with Booming Blade, and I'll notate what feats I add as we go.
L1: 7.5 Damage, 12 Damage if BB triggers (no way to encourage it to trigger yet)
L3: 14.5 Damage (remember, from this point on, BB is assumed to go off)
L4: 15.5 Damage (CHA 18)
L5: 29 Damage
L8: 30 Damage (CHA 20)
L11:44 Damage (Lifedrinker)
L12:54 Damage (GWM; granted, we're ignoring accuracy, but with Elven Accuracy, you usually won't miss even with a -5 to-hit penalty, and by this point you can take Improved Pact Weapon if you're desperate for accuracy buffs)
L17:63 Damage
Reasonably credible, and this was done with a greatsword, not a halberd for OA shenanigans.
I think it's worth the action. I personally wouldn't be without my weapon if I could help it, but if I'm ever disarmed for some reason, it's worth it. If I had to fight skeletons while I had a great sword, it's totally worth forgoing a turn just to have a maul, for example.
But unlike the Eldritch Knight, you can use any type of weapon. EKs rely on their bonded weapon. Hexblade are still warlocks with other spells and EB to fall back on.
Edited my post. I was on about things the OP didn't ask about.
All I really know is that a lot of people complain about having to spend all their time casting Eldritch Blast. I can confirm that. I also know that few people who multi-class into Warlock take anything other than Hexblade, and few people who do that take it past third level.
The mathematical proofs are very interesting, but they kind of prove my point. Yes, you can do it. You get a "reasonably credible" character. Not good, not the best. It also takes a whole lot of feats and specific tactics got the much out of a Hexblade.
I'm a "power gamer", I'm looking to get the most power I can without breaking any rules. There is a subtle difference between that and what we tend to call a "Munchkin." The attitude a Munchkin holds is that they will bend the rules until they break to get a character more powerful than they ought to have by the rules. Those are the sort who just love OA shenanigans, and Over Powered ones as well.
To the topic then. Yes, it's an Action. As a General rule, anything you roll dice to do is an Action unless otherwise specified.
All I really know is that a lot of people complain about having to spend all their time casting Eldritch Blast. I can confirm that. I also know that few people who multi-class into Warlock take anything other than Hexblade, and few people who do that take it past third level.
Generally, all multiclass builds in 5E are based on some main class with a dip into 1 or maybe 2 other classes. When you do dip, you generally stop your dip at an inflection point in that class's power curve. Warlock has inflection points at 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, so stopping at 3 makes plenty of sense - 4 is about getting an ASI and 5 is about upgrading your slots and invocations. By 3 you've unlocked all the genuinely new content a Warlock has to offer (a pact, invocations, and a pact boon, and you've reached 2 L2 slots). Hexblade has a huge inflection point at 1, which is weird for Warlock pacts - Hexblade 1 is build-defining, much like being a Tortle is build-defining in ways most races aren't.
That said, the most powerful build in the game is Mark of Healing Halfling Genielock 17/Sorcerer 3 (sorcerer subclass doesn't matter too much); different subclasses become overwhelmingly compelling at different levels for different reasons. Hexblade's biggest benefits show up at level 1 and are so good any non-Warlock with good Charisma should seriously consider it - Rogue 19/Hexblade 1 and Fighter 19/Hexblade 1 can both be used to excellent effect.
My GM allows me having my magic heavy crossbow summoned all the time. Hanging on my back. Always within 5 feet. When I need a close combat weapon or something else I use an action.
It's true that Hexblades are a "medium" melee class, about the same level as Clerics and Rogues, behind Paladins and Fighters.
However they are an effective melee unit if you play to their strengths while still basically being a full(ish) caster.
I'm playing a Drow Hexblade at the moment (having reached level 4 I took the Drow High Magic feat for more spells). My preferred melee weapon is the double-bladed scimitar which weaponizes my bonus action for free, and summoned as a +1 pact weapon via Improved Pact Weapon is currently a +6 to hit weapon doing 2D4+4 damage on the primary attack and +6 to hit 1D4+4 damage bonus attack. That stacks with features like Hex and Hexblade's Curse, effectively doubling their damage bonuses each turn, tripling it once Thirsting Blade becomes available. Armor of Shadows gives the equivalent of +1 studded leather for free, and of course as a Warlock he has Eldritch Blast for ranged damage, although it'll be level 7 before he gets Agonizing Blast.
So sure, he might be outdamaged by a more specialized melee fighter, but he's also a better caster than the fighter is. That's the strength, and also the weakness, of the gish build.
Also yes, the summoning of the pact weapon is an action. And yes, conceivably you could lose a round of combat if you need to summon the weapon. However, as also noted, the weapon doesn't disappear unless it's separated from your character for more than five minutes so just summon your favourite weapon and keep it with you. In the same way that Armor of Shadows allows you to have Mage Armor up at all times without concern for spell slots or materials, Pact of the Blade allows you to keep your weapon at all times without other concerns.
However it also means that your character can never truly be disarmed, and if there was any advantage to a particular weapon type they can always switch to that only sacrificing an action. That's pretty good.
All I really know is that a lot of people complain about having to spend all their time casting Eldritch Blast. I can confirm that. I also know that few people who multi-class into Warlock take anything other than Hexblade, and few people who do that take it past third level.
Generally, all multiclass builds in 5E are based on some main class with a dip into 1 or maybe 2 other classes. When you do dip, you generally stop your dip at an inflection point in that class's power curve. Warlock has inflection points at 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, so stopping at 3 makes plenty of sense - 4 is about getting an ASI and 5 is about upgrading your slots and invocations. By 3 you've unlocked all the genuinely new content a Warlock has to offer (a pact, invocations, and a pact boon, and you've reached 2 L2 slots). Hexblade has a huge inflection point at 1, which is weird for Warlock pacts - Hexblade 1 is build-defining, much like being a Tortle is build-defining in ways most races aren't.
That said, the most powerful build in the game is Mark of Healing Halfling Genielock 17/Sorcerer 3 (sorcerer subclass doesn't matter too much); different subclasses become overwhelmingly compelling at different levels for different reasons. Hexblade's biggest benefits show up at level 1 and are so good any non-Warlock with good Charisma should seriously consider it - Rogue 19/Hexblade 1 and Fighter 19/Hexblade 1 can both be used to excellent effect.
Okay what makes that genielock/sor build so powerful?
Yeah, I keep remembering this incorrectly because the Eldritch Knight can summon its chosen weapon as a bonus action. Although, I guess a hexblade with 3 levels of fighter could throw their weapon, smite, and summon it back to them as a bonus action.
" Okay what makes that genielock/sor build so powerful?"
My guess would be that Mark of Healing allows the warlock access to Greater Restoration as a known spell. Combined with the 14th level genie ability to cast limited wish without using components 1 times every 1d4 long rests. That way you can do your no rest metamagic point for spell slot dance with short rests. And of course Genielok can also take Wish as a 9th level spell.
Given the stipulation on limited wish every 1d4 long rests, and that you lose access to bottled respite and mystic arcanum without long rests I am not that impressed.
Given Celestial Warlock already got access to greater restoration and it only costs 100 gp of diamond dust it doesn't seem that much better.
Giving a primarily Arcane spell caster the ability to use Divine healing spells, no matter how limited the list, is fairly powerful. That right there makes a Warlock something special. Now add in the things a Sorcerer can do. Pretty much the only thing they get at 3rd level is meta-magic. Imagine using Subtle Spell, and using Eldritch Blast (or any other spell with no material component) without saying a word or making a gesture. Wow. One of the neat tricks a Genielock can do is change what kind of damage they do to whatever element their patron is based on. This lets a Warlock whose Patron is an Efreeti the ability to make their spells do Fire damage. That's pretty cool because it gets around resistances. or immunity.
A level 20 that's a pretty strong character with a lot of things they can do very well.
I hope Quindraco doesn't mine my jumping the gun and answering. It's only been 3 days.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
<Insert clever signature here>
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I’m reading the rules for Pact of the Blade closely because I’m thinking about playing one and it looks to me like summoning a Pact Weapon takes a full Action instead of a Bonus Action. Is that correct?
That means I’d have to always keep my Pact Weapon summoned except when I was trying to appear to be unarmed or else I’d miss the first round of every combat.
Professional computer geek
Yes, it uses your action.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
It makes the Hexblade a lot less powerful than I thought they are. Unless they keep their pact weapon summoned all of the time, losing a full round of combat to summon their pact weapon is a huge cost!
Professional computer geek
It's a full action. Changing the weapon's shape probably is, I don't know. It's really cool to be able to do that. It's also cool to have a weapon that can't ever really be taken away from you. Sadly, as the game stands, the most you can get is a +1 weapon that can change shape. When you get powerful enough to summon a bow, it's debatable if you can summon ammo for it.
<Insert clever signature here>
I gotta disagree with you here. Hexblades needs too much stats to be viable? Ever tried a Monk or a Paladin? Those classes need just as much if not more stats than a Hexblade and they seem to do fine. With a Half Elf and Point Buy you can get a rather tanky Hexblade with 8 STR 14 DEX 16 CON 10 INT 10 WIS and 17 CHA. But the true power of the Half Elf Hexblade as a melee martial is their unique ability to combo Great Weapon Master with Elven Accuracy resulting in damage that can easily match if not surpass what Eldritch Blast is capable of. Hexblades have on demand advantage from level 3 with Darkness and Devils Sight, although it will annoy your party members but that problem is solved when you hit level 7 and get Shadows of Moil.
Now your second point about them having low armor class and low hit points. I concede a D8 hit die is not the best but it is on par with other melee classes like Monks and Rogues. Also you have 16 starting CON to help compensate. About the low armor class you can wear medium armor this means around 16 at level 1 with scale mail. Again this is on par with Monks and slightly higher than most Rogues, heck it is equal to chain mail. Against tougher enemies you can even forgo your Heavy weapon and go sword and board because you can use another weapon through Hex Warrior making the Hexblade a versatile front liner who can dish out damage or be more tanky if the situation calls for it.
To top it all off the Hexblade can also go back to the traditional lock ways of spamming EBs. So in my opinion Hexblades take a fantastic ranged blaster and turns them into a versatile damage dealer than can fulfil many different roles in combat who can still if the situation calls for it be a fantastic ranged blaster.
The whole point of Hexblades is that they aren't MAD, not that they are. A Hexblade only needs Charisma for magic and melee, and then 14 Dex for AC and as much Con as possible. There's no great need to be a half-elf, even - half-elves are great for solving MADness problems, but Hexblades are so SAD, you're fine e.g. just being an elf (so you still qualify for Elven Accuracy). And of course since you can pact bond with any magic weapon you find, you aren't locked to at best +1 weaponry. If you find a +3 greatsword, have at it.
Eldritch Blast is a great spell, but let's do some math on it. Assuming standard Charisma progression (+3, +4 at L4, +5 at L8) and Agonizing and Repelling Blast, ignoring accuracy for now (damage values do not include Hex):
Assuming Hex is always up all the time forever:
Hexblade is fundamentally, radically different in how you approach it - it unlocks combinations with feats like GWM, PAM, Sentinel, SS, CBE, and Gunner. It's always risky making assumptions about combat, but if we're leaning into Elven Accuracy, it's pretty certain we're leaning into Devil's Sight and Darkness, so here's an analysis assuming that if Darkness is up (it's available at Warlock 3), a) the Warlock can walk out of melee without provoking an OA and hence will do so, stopping with the foe within the darkness bubble, and b) the foe will leave the darkness bubble so they can function, triggering booming blade (if they don't, under our assumptions their turn will be wasted anyway, which is worth way more damage than booming blade does). I'll assume a rapier at level 1 and a greatsword at level 3. I won't assume Thirsting Blade, since that's incompatible with Booming Blade, and I'll notate what feats I add as we go.
Reasonably credible, and this was done with a greatsword, not a halberd for OA shenanigans.
I think it's worth the action. I personally wouldn't be without my weapon if I could help it, but if I'm ever disarmed for some reason, it's worth it. If I had to fight skeletons while I had a great sword, it's totally worth forgoing a turn just to have a maul, for example.
But unlike the Eldritch Knight, you can use any type of weapon. EKs rely on their bonded weapon. Hexblade are still warlocks with other spells and EB to fall back on.
Edited my post. I was on about things the OP didn't ask about.
All I really know is that a lot of people complain about having to spend all their time casting Eldritch Blast. I can confirm that. I also know that few people who multi-class into Warlock take anything other than Hexblade, and few people who do that take it past third level.
The mathematical proofs are very interesting, but they kind of prove my point. Yes, you can do it. You get a "reasonably credible" character. Not good, not the best. It also takes a whole lot of feats and specific tactics got the much out of a Hexblade.
I'm a "power gamer", I'm looking to get the most power I can without breaking any rules. There is a subtle difference between that and what we tend to call a "Munchkin." The attitude a Munchkin holds is that they will bend the rules until they break to get a character more powerful than they ought to have by the rules. Those are the sort who just love OA shenanigans, and Over Powered ones as well.
To the topic then. Yes, it's an Action. As a General rule, anything you roll dice to do is an Action unless otherwise specified.
<Insert clever signature here>
Generally, all multiclass builds in 5E are based on some main class with a dip into 1 or maybe 2 other classes. When you do dip, you generally stop your dip at an inflection point in that class's power curve. Warlock has inflection points at 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, so stopping at 3 makes plenty of sense - 4 is about getting an ASI and 5 is about upgrading your slots and invocations. By 3 you've unlocked all the genuinely new content a Warlock has to offer (a pact, invocations, and a pact boon, and you've reached 2 L2 slots). Hexblade has a huge inflection point at 1, which is weird for Warlock pacts - Hexblade 1 is build-defining, much like being a Tortle is build-defining in ways most races aren't.
That said, the most powerful build in the game is Mark of Healing Halfling Genielock 17/Sorcerer 3 (sorcerer subclass doesn't matter too much); different subclasses become overwhelmingly compelling at different levels for different reasons. Hexblade's biggest benefits show up at level 1 and are so good any non-Warlock with good Charisma should seriously consider it - Rogue 19/Hexblade 1 and Fighter 19/Hexblade 1 can both be used to excellent effect.
My GM allows me having my magic heavy crossbow summoned all the time. Hanging on my back. Always within 5 feet. When I need a close combat weapon or something else I use an action.
It's true that Hexblades are a "medium" melee class, about the same level as Clerics and Rogues, behind Paladins and Fighters.
However they are an effective melee unit if you play to their strengths while still basically being a full(ish) caster.
I'm playing a Drow Hexblade at the moment (having reached level 4 I took the Drow High Magic feat for more spells). My preferred melee weapon is the double-bladed scimitar which weaponizes my bonus action for free, and summoned as a +1 pact weapon via Improved Pact Weapon is currently a +6 to hit weapon doing 2D4+4 damage on the primary attack and +6 to hit 1D4+4 damage bonus attack. That stacks with features like Hex and Hexblade's Curse, effectively doubling their damage bonuses each turn, tripling it once Thirsting Blade becomes available. Armor of Shadows gives the equivalent of +1 studded leather for free, and of course as a Warlock he has Eldritch Blast for ranged damage, although it'll be level 7 before he gets Agonizing Blast.
So sure, he might be outdamaged by a more specialized melee fighter, but he's also a better caster than the fighter is. That's the strength, and also the weakness, of the gish build.
Also yes, the summoning of the pact weapon is an action. And yes, conceivably you could lose a round of combat if you need to summon the weapon. However, as also noted, the weapon doesn't disappear unless it's separated from your character for more than five minutes so just summon your favourite weapon and keep it with you. In the same way that Armor of Shadows allows you to have Mage Armor up at all times without concern for spell slots or materials, Pact of the Blade allows you to keep your weapon at all times without other concerns.
However it also means that your character can never truly be disarmed, and if there was any advantage to a particular weapon type they can always switch to that only sacrificing an action. That's pretty good.
Okay what makes that genielock/sor build so powerful?
Yeah, I keep remembering this incorrectly because the Eldritch Knight can summon its chosen weapon as a bonus action. Although, I guess a hexblade with 3 levels of fighter could throw their weapon, smite, and summon it back to them as a bonus action.
" Okay what makes that genielock/sor build so powerful?"
My guess would be that Mark of Healing allows the warlock access to Greater Restoration as a known spell. Combined with the 14th level genie ability to cast limited wish without using components 1 times every 1d4 long rests. That way you can do your no rest metamagic point for spell slot dance with short rests. And of course Genielok can also take Wish as a 9th level spell.
Given the stipulation on limited wish every 1d4 long rests, and that you lose access to bottled respite and mystic arcanum without long rests I am not that impressed.
Given Celestial Warlock already got access to greater restoration and it only costs 100 gp of diamond dust it doesn't seem that much better.
Giving a primarily Arcane spell caster the ability to use Divine healing spells, no matter how limited the list, is fairly powerful. That right there makes a Warlock something special. Now add in the things a Sorcerer can do. Pretty much the only thing they get at 3rd level is meta-magic. Imagine using Subtle Spell, and using Eldritch Blast (or any other spell with no material component) without saying a word or making a gesture. Wow. One of the neat tricks a Genielock can do is change what kind of damage they do to whatever element their patron is based on. This lets a Warlock whose Patron is an Efreeti the ability to make their spells do Fire damage. That's pretty cool because it gets around resistances. or immunity.
A level 20 that's a pretty strong character with a lot of things they can do very well.
I hope Quindraco doesn't mine my jumping the gun and answering. It's only been 3 days.
<Insert clever signature here>