Can I cast Synaptic State and Sickening Radiance through a wall Using Ghostly Gaze? I have read a few threads and the consensus is NO. But...they were using spells that originated from the caster as examples, like Fireball. The argument was that spells need a clear path to the target under casting rules and a wall doesn't offer a clear path and even if you can see the target or the point to center an AOE it is in total cover. Synaptic State says psychic energy explodes from a point you choose within range and Sickening Radiance spreads from a point you choose. Neither of these move from the caster to the target. I am leaning toward a yes but how would you rule?
I'd go with no, the target is behind total cover, meaning you don't have line of effect to it. Allowing this also allows casting similar spells through things like wall of force which feels like it was intended to block spells. The only "exceptions" I would make to the line of effect rule are spells like misty step that actually target something that isn't blocked and just have effects that can go through cover. I wouldn't even make an exception for sacred flame even though it ignores saving throw bonuses for partial cover.
Dim, greenish light spreads within a 30-foot-radius sphere centered on a point you choose within range. The light spreads around corners, and it lasts until the spell ends.
It doesn't mention needing to be able to see the point you're casting the spell at. And it doesn't mention having any type of projectile. I'd even interpret it RAW that you don't need to see through the wall casting Ghostly Gaze, it just says you pick any point within range.
However, as a DM I'd probably rule it similarly to the targeting of Dimension Door where you either need to be specific with your placement (30 ft. to the left of me) or need to be able to visualise the point where you're casting it at by having seen or been there before.
I thought about your question deeply. I would probably also rule no because of the total cover. In the instance that you're talking about the "point you choose" is the target. The target is behind total cover. Ghostly Gaze doesn't suddenly give you the ability to ignore total cover for a target when spellcasting - it just allows you to see through total cover. You're still the spellcaster, the one who casts the spell so in my ruling, if you really insist on casting the spell despite the total cover, the spell's energy can still surge in the direction towards the target (since you know exactly where everything is), but the total cover would block it on the side that you're on, so it would activate on the near side of total cover.
In my opinion, the spellcaster is literally the one who has to activate the spell. Synaptic Static has the spellcaster need to use verbal commands and gestures to activate, and it's got a range which is limited to where the caster is positioned. I think your personal ruling of "neither of these move to the caster to the target" feels as though it's ignoring that the caster has had to activate this magic and use up one of their own spell slots to create it.
In addition to this, in the very act of casting a concentration spell like Sickening Radiance which is also verbal and somatic and uses up a spell slot, you would lose your Ghostly Gaze.
I would rule that Ghostly Gaze and Misty Step could be combined due to the technicality of the target, however. Misty Step has a target of Self, so RAW, you just need to be able to see your intended teleportation destination to arrive there (as long as it's within the right range).
My bad. I totally missed the concentration aspect of Ghostly Gaze...doh! That changes things. My only real argument was that the spell originates from a point and not myself. But all the points are well taken.
I think the cover thing applies when it’s a projectile. When something is being fired or sent from point A to B. The intention of cover is that something is a difficult shot and needs to be aimed carefully.
But spells that say “a point you can see” or “a point within range” with no mention of travel aren’t projectiles. It’s a summon. You are calling something into THAT spot, and outside of range your position means nothing. It’s like summon spells. You summon a creature to a point you can see with in range. Cover doesn’t affect it as long as you can see the location and these feel identical practically.
if the spell originated from you and travels to the spot, absolutely that doesn’t work as they have total cover.
Dont get me wrong this is an area where the rules aren’t clear. But if these weren’t meant to be treated differently I am not sure why they would Include descriptors like “choose a point within range” and not specify it flies from You. Just looking at the differences between synaptic static and fireball. Fireball specially says it flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose. It gives a strong indication this is a projectile, not a summon. And this feels like an example of the “specific beats general” rule in the PHB
Dont get me wrong this is an area where the rules aren’t clear. But if these weren’t meant to be treated differently I am not sure why they would Include descriptors like “choose a point within range” and not specify it flies from You. Just looking at the differences between synaptic static and fireball. Fireball specially says it flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose. It gives a strong indication this is a projectile, not a summon. And this feels like an example of the “specific beats general” rule in the PHB
It's not a case of specific beats general, the general rule is:
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
For it to be specific beats general, you would need a specific rule that states that the spell doesn't need to follow that restriction. It could, however, be argued that because you can see the point, you can cast at it despite the obstruction, as the rule doesn't actually say what happens in that case. That would be in the realm of DM ruling though, not specific beats general.
My GM agrees with most of you. So no dice for casting into another room using ghostly gaze. I agree now that it is RAW but sure seems like it should work.
i just want to point out. Fireball technically doesn't specify a projectile. A streak Flashes from the caster's finger to the chosen spot and then it blossoms with a Roar and BECOMES an Explosion of Flame. But there is nothing defines this streak as anything solid enough to be considered a projectile. it's done this way on purpose because like so many other spells. It gives us the base details but it is up to us to interpret those details. Such as the visualization of the streak that flashes out, color, and for the really creative even the sound of the Roar to some extent.
It relies on the general rule that Lunali mentioned is actually what fireball uses to rely on running into things.
Fireball in older editions however did specify that this version of casting it (it had 2) was specifically a tiny explosive bead that launched towards the point in question and exploded against the first thing that it hit or the desired distance point you cast it out to.
It's a subtle difference and it's easy to turn what Fireball does back into a projectile through that streak that flashes out. But it is different from spells that are definitively projectiles like the mote of flame you actually hurl with firebolt. Or the energy darts you create with magic missile.
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Can I cast Synaptic State and Sickening Radiance through a wall Using Ghostly Gaze? I have read a few threads and the consensus is NO. But...they were using spells that originated from the caster as examples, like Fireball. The argument was that spells need a clear path to the target under casting rules and a wall doesn't offer a clear path and even if you can see the target or the point to center an AOE it is in total cover. Synaptic State says psychic energy explodes from a point you choose within range and Sickening Radiance spreads from a point you choose. Neither of these move from the caster to the target. I am leaning toward a yes but how would you rule?
I’d rule it as yes. The spell says it comes from a point you can see. And if you can see it with the gaze then why not.
you are essentially Summoning something. You aren’t firing anything. I kinda feel it would be real Stingy to not allow it
I'd go with no, the target is behind total cover, meaning you don't have line of effect to it. Allowing this also allows casting similar spells through things like wall of force which feels like it was intended to block spells. The only "exceptions" I would make to the line of effect rule are spells like misty step that actually target something that isn't blocked and just have effects that can go through cover. I wouldn't even make an exception for sacred flame even though it ignores saving throw bonuses for partial cover.
Let's pick it apart.
Sickening Radiance
It doesn't mention needing to be able to see the point you're casting the spell at. And it doesn't mention having any type of projectile. I'd even interpret it RAW that you don't need to see through the wall casting Ghostly Gaze, it just says you pick any point within range.
However, as a DM I'd probably rule it similarly to the targeting of Dimension Door where you either need to be specific with your placement (30 ft. to the left of me) or need to be able to visualise the point where you're casting it at by having seen or been there before.
I thought about your question deeply. I would probably also rule no because of the total cover. In the instance that you're talking about the "point you choose" is the target. The target is behind total cover. Ghostly Gaze doesn't suddenly give you the ability to ignore total cover for a target when spellcasting - it just allows you to see through total cover. You're still the spellcaster, the one who casts the spell so in my ruling, if you really insist on casting the spell despite the total cover, the spell's energy can still surge in the direction towards the target (since you know exactly where everything is), but the total cover would block it on the side that you're on, so it would activate on the near side of total cover.
In my opinion, the spellcaster is literally the one who has to activate the spell. Synaptic Static has the spellcaster need to use verbal commands and gestures to activate, and it's got a range which is limited to where the caster is positioned. I think your personal ruling of "neither of these move to the caster to the target" feels as though it's ignoring that the caster has had to activate this magic and use up one of their own spell slots to create it.
In addition to this, in the very act of casting a concentration spell like Sickening Radiance which is also verbal and somatic and uses up a spell slot, you would lose your Ghostly Gaze.
I would rule that Ghostly Gaze and Misty Step could be combined due to the technicality of the target, however. Misty Step has a target of Self, so RAW, you just need to be able to see your intended teleportation destination to arrive there (as long as it's within the right range).
Anyway, I hope you have a lovely day~
My bad. I totally missed the concentration aspect of Ghostly Gaze...doh! That changes things. My only real argument was that the spell originates from a point and not myself. But all the points are well taken.
I think the cover thing applies when it’s a projectile. When something is being fired or sent from point A to B. The intention of cover is that something is a difficult shot and needs to be aimed carefully.
But spells that say “a point you can see” or “a point within range” with no mention of travel aren’t projectiles. It’s a summon. You are calling something into THAT spot, and outside of range your position means nothing. It’s like summon spells. You summon a creature to a point you can see with in range. Cover doesn’t affect it as long as you can see the location and these feel identical practically.
if the spell originated from you and travels to the spot, absolutely that doesn’t work as they have total cover.
Dont get me wrong this is an area where the rules aren’t clear. But if these weren’t meant to be treated differently I am not sure why they would Include descriptors like “choose a point within range” and not specify it flies from You. Just looking at the differences between synaptic static and fireball. Fireball specially says it flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose. It gives a strong indication this is a projectile, not a summon. And this feels like an example of the “specific beats general” rule in the PHB
It's not a case of specific beats general, the general rule is:
For it to be specific beats general, you would need a specific rule that states that the spell doesn't need to follow that restriction. It could, however, be argued that because you can see the point, you can cast at it despite the obstruction, as the rule doesn't actually say what happens in that case. That would be in the realm of DM ruling though, not specific beats general.
My GM agrees with most of you. So no dice for casting into another room using ghostly gaze. I agree now that it is RAW but sure seems like it should work.
i just want to point out. Fireball technically doesn't specify a projectile. A streak Flashes from the caster's finger to the chosen spot and then it blossoms with a Roar and BECOMES an Explosion of Flame. But there is nothing defines this streak as anything solid enough to be considered a projectile. it's done this way on purpose because like so many other spells. It gives us the base details but it is up to us to interpret those details. Such as the visualization of the streak that flashes out, color, and for the really creative even the sound of the Roar to some extent.
It relies on the general rule that Lunali mentioned is actually what fireball uses to rely on running into things.
Fireball in older editions however did specify that this version of casting it (it had 2) was specifically a tiny explosive bead that launched towards the point in question and exploded against the first thing that it hit or the desired distance point you cast it out to.
It's a subtle difference and it's easy to turn what Fireball does back into a projectile through that streak that flashes out. But it is different from spells that are definitively projectiles like the mote of flame you actually hurl with firebolt. Or the energy darts you create with magic missile.