I'm fond of the class flavor from Warlocks, but there seems to be a consistent pitfall in their RP. Namely: What the hell does my patron want from me?!
There are(/have been) rules or guidelines in D&D for what to do with Paladins who break their oaths. We can assume that the gods of clerics pretty much just want their devotion, but what about Warlocks? If all the patron wants is for the Warlock to act in their name then they aren't thematically different from clerics at all (except for the identity of their patron/god).
A pact should provide something the Warlock wants (spells, invocations, whatever) in exchange for something the patron wants, but we have no idea what this could be. How do you handle this in your campaigns? Obviously the different patrons have different angles, but what are some concrete things the warlock could be doing to make their patron a part of their RP instead of just being edgey sorcerers? And, more interestingly, what sort of repercussions would you consider accepting as a warlock player, or inflicting on a warlock as a GM, if they fail to uphold their end of the pact?
When it comes to DMing I have a rule for warlocks that sometimes helps in this manner.
Archfey - These guys are the equivalent of all-powerful beings in the Feywild, but if anyone has seen/read/acted in the play Midsummer Nights Dream they known that they don't really care what happens on the mortal plane pre say but they do care about the drama that happens in their domain. So if a Warlock picks this patron they might be asked to go to forest places and destroy a flower bed that may be sacred to an enemy of that patron, or maybe be a sort of intelligence gathered for their patron doing almost spy-like deeds.
Archfiend - Similar to Dr. Faustas, one who makes a pact with the Devil will end up in hell one way or another. but while you're with the living you might find that your services might need to be a sort of harbinger of your patron. when Clerics of good alignment cast out devils and demons you act as the messenger making the cleric an offer they cannot refuse.
Great Old Ones - the amount of H.P. Lovecraft uses you can use is almost staggering, the Elders are on a plane of understanding that our puny minds could never truly comprehend. So when a Warlock gets a call from their favorite Eldritch Horror buddy in the sky they might be given tasks of opening portals to the far realm as to let in the Alien powers into the mortal world or even help set up an intricate way to creating a small village become ground zero for an all out Cuthulu Summoning ritual sacrifice job.
Undying - these guys in my mind are more like Lich Boot camp than anything else. but having them as a patron they would want you to help them find artifacts of necromancy origins as to bring forth even greater power to their undeath.
The Hexblade and Raven Queen pacts seem to go hand in hand. I am taking the blade, so the pact will probably start with an oath to hunt the Undead, and the followers of Orcus (or anyone else purposefully intending to usurp the Raven Queens position/harness undead legions).
[REDACTED] the Raven Queen by be the God of Death but she does not control undead legions her thing is the transition of life to death whatever happens afterwards its not really her place.
I guess the simplest answer to this question is service. The patron, whomever may be, at least wants the warlock to support his cause.
The service it may be a side quest : retrieve something for the patron, help someone useful for the patron. As long as the warlock does these things, no problem.
An interesting thing would be if that something the patron wants is not in alignment with the rest of the party...
But the patron could be a resource as well. If the party does not know what to do to advance the plot, a patron may come in handy. Will the party accept the cost??
I'm still new to the lore of the Forgotten Realms. Aside from reading the Annotated Elminster years ago.
The only thing I know about the Raven Queen is that she does not like those who cheat fate and death. And there is something about Orcus having a thing for the undead and wanting to replace her.
I am working towards a campaign where our characters will be professional Crypt Sweepers, clearing out ghost, ghouls, and what have you. But I haven't finished by any means.
Would the Raven Queen not want that sort of thing put down?
Oh, she would, she hates Orcus with a burning hatred that is almost unreasonable, while Orcus is all about Undying she is about the permanent death of things like if their time has come they should not be brought back. think of the raven queen as like a warden of the dead making sure they don't sleep back into the world of the living.
I think Arcturus Noctis has it pretty much right. What the patron wants depends on their nature.
Fey want a useful mortal tool for: their own political intrigues; because it seems funny; they are bored; the mortal did them a favor somehow; or the mortal may have fulfilled some ancient ritual/prophecy requirement (intentionally or accidentally)
Fiends want either the mortal's soul or someone to carry out specific tasks to advance an agenda (which may be very long term)
Great Old Ones may just use the mortal as a contact point with our plane, allowing them to create madness and chaos. Maybe the warlock slowly goes insane? Maybe their magic warps reality in small ways.
I think any patron takes a long view, considering what they are. I also prefer if the warlock's spells and invocations somehow match the nature of the patron; it feels more right. If the warlock's fey patron is the Winter Prince, they probably don't have a lot of fire spells.
I do wish that there was something more definitively "canon" about. I would like to model the Archfey aster Jim Butcher's treatment of the Fae, but the player in question is balking because it's not "official DnD". Even if it were something as simple as a rolling table similar to the ones featured in backgrounds.
If you are the DM, it's pretty official at your table. Does the player have any alternate suggestions? Or do they want to ignore the role playing aspects? Sad, if that is the case.
Players are like any other children, they want all of the benefits with none of the cost. Being Fae, I think I'll keep the wording of the pact vague so as to make literally any demand by the patron required.
Butcher's Fae are the canon at our table. Tell them the Fae are inscrutable. They are fickle psychopaths with a blue and orange morality that never go back on their word, but don't always give you what you think you agreed to.
Downside: no guidelines means it's up to you. Upside: no guidelines means it's up to you. Obviously, work with your DM. Could be a story-based quest. Might be some crazy RP flaw for the patron's (& your group's) amusement. Or a Faustian bargain which means your soul is not free to return if you die, making you immune to resurrection spells (ie, death is permanent.) One I've heard of that's interesting is the 'Devil Went Down to Georgia' conceit, where the PC won a contest or tricked the patron into giving power...
In my generic campaign, a fey patron wanted a rare flower. Warlock went to city and got a mission, if he can complete the mission and manage to survive, they'll provide him that flower. But the patron probably forgot that.
Downside: no guidelines means it's up to you. Upside: no guidelines means it's up to you. Obviously, work with your DM. Could be a story-based quest. Might be some crazy RP flaw for the patron's (& your group's) amusement. Or a Faustian bargain which means your soul is not free to return if you die, making you immune to resurrection spells (ie, death is permanent.) One I've heard of that's interesting is the 'Devil Went Down to Georgia' conceit, where the PC won a contest or tricked the patron into giving power...
THIS! Let the story guide the pact. It may go in directions that were completely unanticipated.
In the campaign where I play a warlock, the DM is using Forgotten Realms as a world base, but adding his own flavour. He agreed that I could base my Great Old One with a being conceptually similar to the Guardians from the classic Doctor Who episodes in the 80's I then gave him the freedom to choose which one - black, white or other... make my willingness to accept the power a bargain made with a being whose motives I'm not completely sure about.
Fast forward to level 5. We have made contact with an NPC (powerful and knowledgeable) who knows the truth about the Great Old One. Long story short - was a basically good being, but lost his touch of and with "humanity" - and has been "asleep" for centuries (or maybe millennia). The "bad" guys in our campaign want to wake him up, and that would likely be a bad thing.
Playing a Great Old One warlock (Tome), I somehow made an initial contact with the being and I am able to access the powers. Since GOO warlocks frequently have that hint (or more than a hint) of madness characteristic - that's what I decided to go with when the DM gave that backstory. I have firmly determined that it is my destiny to either "cure" the GOO (my character is insatiably curious - and what is more human that curiosity? - so I am best suited to help the GOO), or I am destined to REPLACE the GOO.
My DM has told my character, through the NPC, that I'm completely wrong. My DM has told ME - the player - that I'm completely wrong.
Don't care.
The door was opened, and that's what the character would do.
So, maybe it's not what the patron wants - but, in the right circumstances - maybe it can be played as what the character THINKS the patron wants. Right or wrong.
I haven't played a Warlock yet, but I want to play one who is based loosely on the Ghost Rider character. When I read the class that was my first thought.
Tim if you wanna do that I would recommend the Fiend Patron and pick up the minor Illusion so you can do the flame skull thing, it's probably the best way to go
I'm fond of the class flavor from Warlocks, but there seems to be a consistent pitfall in their RP. Namely: What the hell does my patron want from me?!
There are(/have been) rules or guidelines in D&D for what to do with Paladins who break their oaths. We can assume that the gods of clerics pretty much just want their devotion, but what about Warlocks? If all the patron wants is for the Warlock to act in their name then they aren't thematically different from clerics at all (except for the identity of their patron/god).
A pact should provide something the Warlock wants (spells, invocations, whatever) in exchange for something the patron wants, but we have no idea what this could be. How do you handle this in your campaigns? Obviously the different patrons have different angles, but what are some concrete things the warlock could be doing to make their patron a part of their RP instead of just being edgey sorcerers? And, more interestingly, what sort of repercussions would you consider accepting as a warlock player, or inflicting on a warlock as a GM, if they fail to uphold their end of the pact?
When it comes to DMing I have a rule for warlocks that sometimes helps in this manner.
Archfey - These guys are the equivalent of all-powerful beings in the Feywild, but if anyone has seen/read/acted in the play Midsummer Nights Dream they known that they don't really care what happens on the mortal plane pre say but they do care about the drama that happens in their domain. So if a Warlock picks this patron they might be asked to go to forest places and destroy a flower bed that may be sacred to an enemy of that patron, or maybe be a sort of intelligence gathered for their patron doing almost spy-like deeds.
Archfiend - Similar to Dr. Faustas, one who makes a pact with the Devil will end up in hell one way or another. but while you're with the living you might find that your services might need to be a sort of harbinger of your patron. when Clerics of good alignment cast out devils and demons you act as the messenger making the cleric an offer they cannot refuse.
Great Old Ones - the amount of H.P. Lovecraft uses you can use is almost staggering, the Elders are on a plane of understanding that our puny minds could never truly comprehend. So when a Warlock gets a call from their favorite Eldritch Horror buddy in the sky they might be given tasks of opening portals to the far realm as to let in the Alien powers into the mortal world or even help set up an intricate way to creating a small village become ground zero for an all out Cuthulu Summoning ritual sacrifice job.
Undying - these guys in my mind are more like Lich Boot camp than anything else. but having them as a patron they would want you to help them find artifacts of necromancy origins as to bring forth even greater power to their undeath.
Hopes this sparks some ideas
The Hexblade and Raven Queen pacts seem to go hand in hand. I am taking the blade, so the pact will probably start with an oath to hunt the Undead, and the followers of Orcus (or anyone else purposefully intending to usurp the Raven Queens position/harness undead legions).
I haven't fleshed it much further than that.
[REDACTED] the Raven Queen by be the God of Death but she does not control undead legions her thing is the transition of life to death whatever happens afterwards its not really her place.
I guess the simplest answer to this question is service. The patron, whomever may be, at least wants the warlock to support his cause.
The service it may be a side quest : retrieve something for the patron, help someone useful for the patron. As long as the warlock does these things, no problem.
An interesting thing would be if that something the patron wants is not in alignment with the rest of the party...
But the patron could be a resource as well. If the party does not know what to do to advance the plot, a patron may come in handy. Will the party accept the cost??
I'm still new to the lore of the Forgotten Realms. Aside from reading the Annotated Elminster years ago.
The only thing I know about the Raven Queen is that she does not like those who cheat fate and death. And there is something about Orcus having a thing for the undead and wanting to replace her.
I am working towards a campaign where our characters will be professional Crypt Sweepers, clearing out ghost, ghouls, and what have you. But I haven't finished by any means.
Would the Raven Queen not want that sort of thing put down?
Oh, she would, she hates Orcus with a burning hatred that is almost unreasonable, while Orcus is all about Undying she is about the permanent death of things like if their time has come they should not be brought back. think of the raven queen as like a warden of the dead making sure they don't sleep back into the world of the living.
I think Arcturus Noctis has it pretty much right. What the patron wants depends on their nature.
Fey want a useful mortal tool for: their own political intrigues; because it seems funny; they are bored; the mortal did them a favor somehow; or the mortal may have fulfilled some ancient ritual/prophecy requirement (intentionally or accidentally)
Fiends want either the mortal's soul or someone to carry out specific tasks to advance an agenda (which may be very long term)
Great Old Ones may just use the mortal as a contact point with our plane, allowing them to create madness and chaos. Maybe the warlock slowly goes insane? Maybe their magic warps reality in small ways.
I think any patron takes a long view, considering what they are. I also prefer if the warlock's spells and invocations somehow match the nature of the patron; it feels more right. If the warlock's fey patron is the Winter Prince, they probably don't have a lot of fire spells.
geek dad with 3 geek kids
I do wish that there was something more definitively "canon" about. I would like to model the Archfey aster Jim Butcher's treatment of the Fae, but the player in question is balking because it's not "official DnD". Even if it were something as simple as a rolling table similar to the ones featured in backgrounds.
If you are the DM, it's pretty official at your table. Does the player have any alternate suggestions? Or do they want to ignore the role playing aspects? Sad, if that is the case.
geek dad with 3 geek kids
Players are like any other children, they want all of the benefits with none of the cost. Being Fae, I think I'll keep the wording of the pact vague so as to make literally any demand by the patron required.
Butcher's Fae are the canon at our table. Tell them the Fae are inscrutable. They are fickle psychopaths with a blue and orange morality that never go back on their word, but don't always give you what you think you agreed to.
Downside: no guidelines means it's up to you. Upside: no guidelines means it's up to you. Obviously, work with your DM. Could be a story-based quest. Might be some crazy RP flaw for the patron's (& your group's) amusement. Or a Faustian bargain which means your soul is not free to return if you die, making you immune to resurrection spells (ie, death is permanent.) One I've heard of that's interesting is the 'Devil Went Down to Georgia' conceit, where the PC won a contest or tricked the patron into giving power...
In my generic campaign, a fey patron wanted a rare flower. Warlock went to city and got a mission, if he can complete the mission and manage to survive, they'll provide him that flower. But the patron probably forgot that.
"What are you lookin' at, filthy mortal?"
I haven't played a Warlock yet, but I want to play one who is based loosely on the Ghost Rider character. When I read the class that was my first thought.
Professional computer geek
Tim if you wanna do that I would recommend the Fiend Patron and pick up the minor Illusion so you can do the flame skull thing, it's probably the best way to go
Step one: Have the patron demand something vital/obscure/random. I use this one .
Step two: Refuse to clarify. Offer cryptic hints in response to any variation of 'Why?'
Step three: Listen to the players conjecture. Copy whatever poetic insanity they theorize. Repeat from step one once they get comfortable.
In sight of all this comments, do you think the DM should play the patron?