It doesn't matter as almost no matter what the goal or way to play is in your game another class will do it better.
I'm currently playing a tomelock who claims to be a wizard when he meets people for the first time. His Undead patron is the spirit of a deceased mage trapped in his old wand, which my hapless halfling found by accident (?). My patron seems to think I'm his idiot apprentice or something, when he's aware of my existence at all
Now, this particular campaign is fairly light and silly so the rest of the party is in on the joke when I call my eldritch blast a "frosty ray" and my Form of Dread a new spell my master invented called "Shadow Shroud", but in a heavier RP campaign, I might very well have ditched EB entirely since it's, pardon the pun, kind of a dead giveaway that I'm not really a wizard
Pray tell, what class would do "that" better?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It doesn't matter as almost no matter what the goal or way to play is in your game another class will do it better.
I'm currently playing a tomelock who claims to be a wizard when he meets people for the first time. His Undead patron is the spirit of a deceased mage trapped in his old wand, which my hapless halfling found by accident (?). My patron seems to think I'm his idiot apprentice or something, when he's aware of my existence at all
Now, this particular campaign is fairly light and silly so the rest of the party is in on the joke when I call my eldritch blast a "frosty ray" and my Form of Dread a new spell my master invented called "Shadow Shroud", but in a heavier RP campaign, I might very well have ditched EB entirely since it's, pardon the pun, kind of a dead giveaway that I'm not really a wizard
Pray tell, what class would do "that" better?
That is like saying what class can go into a rage better than a barbarian while ignoring the context of what being a barbarian brings to the group. Yes barbarians are the only class that gets rage, so if your character concept is has rage you need barbarian. But what is a barbarian doing and can someone else bring that better is the question.
So yes, if you want form of dread and to pretend to be a wizard while not being a wizard you may need to be a warlock, though honestly a bard would do the 2nd part better, they just don't have form of dread. Or just re-flavoring wizard if your dm let you. But what are you actually bringing to the table in capabilities without a solid eldritch blast(or weapon attack if pact of the blade focused) that a bard with one feat couldn't pull off as well or better. And its not like rituals is something you can really base a character around for things you bring to the table. Basically you are a caster with some utility, and for that just being a wizard would be orders of magnitude better, bard would be better, some clerics would be better, even some sorcerers would be better.
So yes if your character concept is does sneak attacks, yeah you are stuck with rogue but if its stealthy dpr guy odds are you can build something better without rogue, or just a rogue dip, except maybe for a couple phantom builds I've been seeing.
It doesn't matter as almost no matter what the goal or way to play is in your game another class will do it better.
I'm currently playing a tomelock who claims to be a wizard when he meets people for the first time. His Undead patron is the spirit of a deceased mage trapped in his old wand, which my hapless halfling found by accident (?). My patron seems to think I'm his idiot apprentice or something, when he's aware of my existence at all
Now, this particular campaign is fairly light and silly so the rest of the party is in on the joke when I call my eldritch blast a "frosty ray" and my Form of Dread a new spell my master invented called "Shadow Shroud", but in a heavier RP campaign, I might very well have ditched EB entirely since it's, pardon the pun, kind of a dead giveaway that I'm not really a wizard
Pray tell, what class would do "that" better?
That is like saying what class can go into a rage better than a barbarian while ignoring the context of what being a barbarian brings to the group. Yes barbarians are the only class that gets rage, so if your character concept is has rage you need barbarian. But what is a barbarian doing and can someone else bring that better is the question.
Your inability to see characters as anything more than a bag of mechanics is rather sad
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It doesn't matter as almost no matter what the goal or way to play is in your game another class will do it better.
I'm currently playing a tomelock who claims to be a wizard when he meets people for the first time. His Undead patron is the spirit of a deceased mage trapped in his old wand, which my hapless halfling found by accident (?). My patron seems to think I'm his idiot apprentice or something, when he's aware of my existence at all
Now, this particular campaign is fairly light and silly so the rest of the party is in on the joke when I call my eldritch blast a "frosty ray" and my Form of Dread a new spell my master invented called "Shadow Shroud", but in a heavier RP campaign, I might very well have ditched EB entirely since it's, pardon the pun, kind of a dead giveaway that I'm not really a wizard
Pray tell, what class would do "that" better?
That is like saying what class can go into a rage better than a barbarian while ignoring the context of what being a barbarian brings to the group. Yes barbarians are the only class that gets rage, so if your character concept is has rage you need barbarian. But what is a barbarian doing and can someone else bring that better is the question.
Your inability to see characters as anything more than a bag of mechanics is rather sad
You know, there's probably a single Most Optimal Character One Can Possible Create for every basic role in the game (tank, support, melee offense, etc). If everyone played those Most Optimal Builds, the game would be rather boring. Let's be glad that's not the world we live in.
When choosing spells for your warlock, or any character, there could be, similarly one set of The Best Spells Your Character Can Have. And although it's hard to deny that Eldritch Blast is the cornerstone of any warlock character (I refuse to say "build" because that word suggests we're talking about character optimization), you should choose some spells not because they're powerful, but because you can have fun with them. Some people see characters as a "bag of mechanics" and enjoy doing math on them, and if that's how they enjoy the game the most then so be it. But I would find a balance between the Optimized Build of Big Damage Numbers and a 100% roleplay character because both, as extremes, are both bad. Find a balance that works for you.
And of course, if you're like AntonSirius and have a DM who will create homebrew and bend the rules so that your character can be powerful and flavorful at the same time, you are extremely lucky, and I bet everyone at the table is having a great time. I once, as a DM let a character use DEX for greatsword attacks because of a similar flavor thing. If you're focusing almost entirely on optimizing your characters, it might even be a sign of a lack of player-DM communication.
As a final word, if you and everyone at the table are having fun with your character, then you have created the most optimal character you can. Because it's being a source of enjoyment in a game with your friend, and no character in the world could do "that" better.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
And of course, if you're like AntonSirius and have a DM who will create homebrew and bend the rules so that your character can be powerful and flavorful at the same time
Much as I like homebrewing stuff both as player and DM, there's actually nothing homebrew in that character. Straight off the shelf Undead patron and Pact of the Tome
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I might very well have ditched EB entirely since it's, pardon the pun, kind of a dead giveaway that I'm not really a wizard
I the campaign I play in, a warlock's EB can look like plenty of things. Unless someone with Arcana is paying attention, its not all that likely they would know what EB is, and that such a spell effect is unique to a warlock. To the layman, magic missile, firebolt, EB... might all look like "magic energy fired at target"
I hate to disrupt this great discussion we're all having, but this is getting pretty far from what the original post asked.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Because Warlocks have a constant (maximum) spell slot level there's little reason to take lower level spells unless they A) scale or B) make a massive difference on the table.
It's also why invocations that use your spell slots have to be very powerful to be considered as an alternative. Sculptor of Flesh, which gives you a once per day Polymorph, is obviously worthy of consideration. Bewitching Whispers, which gives a once per day Compulsion is somewhat less so. Even then it's better to have invocations that give unlimited use of spells without needing slots. They're not overly strong, but they can be useful, and they are unlimited. That fits well with the Warlock's "on demand" damage/utility nature.
Undying Servitude - Animate Dead 5th level, 1 per day
So, 23 invocations that provide a spell, 10 that are "on demand".
While you should certainly take a couple of non-spell invocations, Agonizing Blast (obviously) and Book of Ancient Secrets (since I think that Pact of Tome is the "magical" Warlock), there are a few fairly useful spells that you can use invocations to take. I would take Efreeti Genie as the Warlock Patron since you get Fireball and (eventually) Wish.
An Efreeti Genie Warlock, with Pact of the Tome and Book of Ancient Secrets has the capability to access all the ritual spells in the game, with a fairly good selection of spells. Some of the spell invocations are quite high level, but when you consider that Wizards have to wait until 18th level to get Spell Mastery it's about what you'd expect for "on demand" spells.
First of all, Eldritch Blast is an absolute must-have, and anyone who has ever worked with warlocks will agree with me
I disagree with you. It is entirely possible to make a fun, viable warlock without eldritch blast
I agree, most of the warlocks I play do not have EB. The damage on EB is not really any better than many other cantrips anyway and it is flat worse than Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade.
You can combine it with Hex and Anognizing blast to ramp up the damage but that is a ton of resources to put into using a cantrip effectively and you are missing other spells and an invocation or feat to do that. At higher levels you are also upcasting Hex using a precious slot and sacrificing a precious slot that could be used for a higher level spell.
Because Warlocks have a constant (maximum) spell slot level there's little reason to take lower level spells unless they A) scale or B) make a massive difference on the table.
Since you get one new spell per Warlock level and can only change one spell you really don't have a choice.
At 9th level, when you pick up 5th level slots at least 8 of your spells are going to be 4th level or below and 5 of those are going to be 3rd level or below. You will be 17th level before you can convert all of those to 5th level.
In any case here are the spells in general that I like on my Warlocks:
Because Warlocks have a constant (maximum) spell slot level there's little reason to take lower level spells unless they A) scale or B) make a massive difference on the table.
Since you get one new spell per Warlock level and can only change one spell you really don't have a choice.
At 9th level, when you pick up 5th level slots at least 8 of your spells are going to be 4th level or below and 5 of those are going to be 3rd level or below. You will be 17th level before you can convert all of those to 5th level.
In any case here are the spells in general that I like on my Warlocks:
Armor of Agathys
Protection from Evil and Good
counterspell
Fear
Fly
Summon Fey
Summon Shadowspawn
Psychic Lance
Shadow of Moil
Synaptic Static
To add to this, when it comes to utility spells sometimes the best spell for the job is a 3rd level or 4th level spell and not a 5th level spell. And with Warlock spell slots, it isn't about casting the most highest level spell, but casting the best spell for the job regardless of what level it is. If you have some good 3rd and 4th level utilities spells, even if they don't scale they are still good to have and cast.
So, thinking about a utility Warlock, I think I'd start with a Drow/Dark Elf.
They come with a charisma boost (not that that matters these days) three racial spells, and access to the Drow High Magic feat for another three racial spells.
The background I'd use is the Urban Bounty Hunter. This has access to thieves' tools and a choice of four different skill proficiencies.
Although the Genie is probably the better choice, I'd take the Celestial, because it gives something that few other arcane casters have access to, healing.
Starting stats, with Points Buy. Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Skill proficiencies, perception, arcana and deception from Warlock (arcana for the creation and use of spell scrolls), persuasion and stealth from Urban Bounty Hunter. As a charisma caster it makes sense to invest in social skills. Insight is a possible alternative to stealth, and might be better for the Face role.
Tool proficiencies, thieves' tools and playing cards.
At level 2 take Mask of Many Faces (becoming the perfect Face) and Agonizing Blast. At level 3 take Pact of the Tome and drop Agonizing Blast in order to take Book of Ancient Secrets. Take Agonizing Blast again at level 5. At level 4 take Drow High Magic, giving on demand Detect Magic, and once per day Levitate and Dispel Magic.
Compared to how many invocations a Pact of the Blade Hexblade needs to invest in in order to become a good martial fighter it's almost ludicrous that a Tomelock can get by with two.
And yes I do agree that some of the Warlock's most useful spells are in the 3 to 4 range.
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I'm currently playing a tomelock who claims to be a wizard when he meets people for the first time. His Undead patron is the spirit of a deceased mage trapped in his old wand, which my hapless halfling found by accident (?). My patron seems to think I'm his idiot apprentice or something, when he's aware of my existence at all
Now, this particular campaign is fairly light and silly so the rest of the party is in on the joke when I call my eldritch blast a "frosty ray" and my Form of Dread a new spell my master invented called "Shadow Shroud", but in a heavier RP campaign, I might very well have ditched EB entirely since it's, pardon the pun, kind of a dead giveaway that I'm not really a wizard
Pray tell, what class would do "that" better?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That is like saying what class can go into a rage better than a barbarian while ignoring the context of what being a barbarian brings to the group. Yes barbarians are the only class that gets rage, so if your character concept is has rage you need barbarian. But what is a barbarian doing and can someone else bring that better is the question.
So yes, if you want form of dread and to pretend to be a wizard while not being a wizard you may need to be a warlock, though honestly a bard would do the 2nd part better, they just don't have form of dread. Or just re-flavoring wizard if your dm let you. But what are you actually bringing to the table in capabilities without a solid eldritch blast(or weapon attack if pact of the blade focused) that a bard with one feat couldn't pull off as well or better. And its not like rituals is something you can really base a character around for things you bring to the table. Basically you are a caster with some utility, and for that just being a wizard would be orders of magnitude better, bard would be better, some clerics would be better, even some sorcerers would be better.
So yes if your character concept is does sneak attacks, yeah you are stuck with rogue but if its stealthy dpr guy odds are you can build something better without rogue, or just a rogue dip, except maybe for a couple phantom builds I've been seeing.
Your inability to see characters as anything more than a bag of mechanics is rather sad
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You know, there's probably a single Most Optimal Character One Can Possible Create for every basic role in the game (tank, support, melee offense, etc). If everyone played those Most Optimal Builds, the game would be rather boring. Let's be glad that's not the world we live in.
When choosing spells for your warlock, or any character, there could be, similarly one set of The Best Spells Your Character Can Have. And although it's hard to deny that Eldritch Blast is the cornerstone of any warlock character (I refuse to say "build" because that word suggests we're talking about character optimization), you should choose some spells not because they're powerful, but because you can have fun with them. Some people see characters as a "bag of mechanics" and enjoy doing math on them, and if that's how they enjoy the game the most then so be it. But I would find a balance between the Optimized Build of Big Damage Numbers and a 100% roleplay character because both, as extremes, are both bad. Find a balance that works for you.
And of course, if you're like AntonSirius and have a DM who will create homebrew and bend the rules so that your character can be powerful and flavorful at the same time, you are extremely lucky, and I bet everyone at the table is having a great time. I once, as a DM let a character use DEX for greatsword attacks because of a similar flavor thing. If you're focusing almost entirely on optimizing your characters, it might even be a sign of a lack of player-DM communication.
As a final word, if you and everyone at the table are having fun with your character, then you have created the most optimal character you can. Because it's being a source of enjoyment in a game with your friend, and no character in the world could do "that" better.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Much as I like homebrewing stuff both as player and DM, there's actually nothing homebrew in that character. Straight off the shelf Undead patron and Pact of the Tome
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I the campaign I play in, a warlock's EB can look like plenty of things. Unless someone with Arcana is paying attention, its not all that likely they would know what EB is, and that such a spell effect is unique to a warlock. To the layman, magic missile, firebolt, EB... might all look like "magic energy fired at target"
I hate to disrupt this great discussion we're all having, but this is getting pretty far from what the original post asked.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Because Warlocks have a constant (maximum) spell slot level there's little reason to take lower level spells unless they A) scale or B) make a massive difference on the table.
It's also why invocations that use your spell slots have to be very powerful to be considered as an alternative. Sculptor of Flesh, which gives you a once per day Polymorph, is obviously worthy of consideration. Bewitching Whispers, which gives a once per day Compulsion is somewhat less so. Even then it's better to have invocations that give unlimited use of spells without needing slots. They're not overly strong, but they can be useful, and they are unlimited. That fits well with the Warlock's "on demand" damage/utility nature.
Just because I've always wanted to make a list:
From the Player's Handbook
Armor of Shadows - Mage Armor
Ascendant Step - Levitate 9th level
Beast Speech - Speak With Animals
Bewitching Whispers - Compulsion 7th level, spell slot, 1 per day
Chains of Carceri - Hold Monster 15th level
Dreadful Word - Confusion 7th level, spell slot, 1 per day
Eldritch Sight - Detect Magic
Fiendish Vigor - False Life
Mask of Many Faces - Disguise Self
Master of Myriad Forms - Alter Self 15th level
Minions of Chaos - Summon Elemental 9th level, spell slot, 1 per day
Mire the Mind - Slow 5th level, spell slot, 1 per day
Misty Visions - Silent Image
Otherworldly Leap - Jump 9th level
Sculptor of Flesh - Polymorph 7th level, spell slot, 1 per day
Sign of Ill Omen - Bestow Curse 5th level, spell slot, 1 per day
Thief of Five Fates - Bane Spell slot, 1 per day
Visions of Distant Realms - Arcane Eye 15th level
Whispers of the Grave - Speak with Dead 9th level
Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Gift of the Depths - Water Breathing 5th level, 1 per day
Shroud of Shadow - Invisibility 15th level
Trickster's Escape - Freedom of Movement 1 per day
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything
Undying Servitude - Animate Dead 5th level, 1 per day
So, 23 invocations that provide a spell, 10 that are "on demand".
While you should certainly take a couple of non-spell invocations, Agonizing Blast (obviously) and Book of Ancient Secrets (since I think that Pact of Tome is the "magical" Warlock), there are a few fairly useful spells that you can use invocations to take. I would take Efreeti Genie as the Warlock Patron since you get Fireball and (eventually) Wish.
An Efreeti Genie Warlock, with Pact of the Tome and Book of Ancient Secrets has the capability to access all the ritual spells in the game, with a fairly good selection of spells. Some of the spell invocations are quite high level, but when you consider that Wizards have to wait until 18th level to get Spell Mastery it's about what you'd expect for "on demand" spells.
And my genie would certainly be based on Barbara Eden's Jeannie.
I agree, most of the warlocks I play do not have EB. The damage on EB is not really any better than many other cantrips anyway and it is flat worse than Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade.
You can combine it with Hex and Anognizing blast to ramp up the damage but that is a ton of resources to put into using a cantrip effectively and you are missing other spells and an invocation or feat to do that. At higher levels you are also upcasting Hex using a precious slot and sacrificing a precious slot that could be used for a higher level spell.
Since you get one new spell per Warlock level and can only change one spell you really don't have a choice.
At 9th level, when you pick up 5th level slots at least 8 of your spells are going to be 4th level or below and 5 of those are going to be 3rd level or below. You will be 17th level before you can convert all of those to 5th level.
In any case here are the spells in general that I like on my Warlocks:
Armor of Agathys
Protection from Evil and Good
counterspell
Fear
Fly
Summon Fey
Summon Shadowspawn
Psychic Lance
Shadow of Moil
Synaptic Static
To add to this, when it comes to utility spells sometimes the best spell for the job is a 3rd level or 4th level spell and not a 5th level spell. And with Warlock spell slots, it isn't about casting the most highest level spell, but casting the best spell for the job regardless of what level it is. If you have some good 3rd and 4th level utilities spells, even if they don't scale they are still good to have and cast.
So, thinking about a utility Warlock, I think I'd start with a Drow/Dark Elf.
They come with a charisma boost (not that that matters these days) three racial spells, and access to the Drow High Magic feat for another three racial spells.
The background I'd use is the Urban Bounty Hunter. This has access to thieves' tools and a choice of four different skill proficiencies.
Although the Genie is probably the better choice, I'd take the Celestial, because it gives something that few other arcane casters have access to, healing.
Starting stats, with Points Buy. Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Skill proficiencies, perception, arcana and deception from Warlock (arcana for the creation and use of spell scrolls), persuasion and stealth from Urban Bounty Hunter. As a charisma caster it makes sense to invest in social skills. Insight is a possible alternative to stealth, and might be better for the Face role.
Tool proficiencies, thieves' tools and playing cards.
At level 2 take Mask of Many Faces (becoming the perfect Face) and Agonizing Blast. At level 3 take Pact of the Tome and drop Agonizing Blast in order to take Book of Ancient Secrets. Take Agonizing Blast again at level 5. At level 4 take Drow High Magic, giving on demand Detect Magic, and once per day Levitate and Dispel Magic.
Compared to how many invocations a Pact of the Blade Hexblade needs to invest in in order to become a good martial fighter it's almost ludicrous that a Tomelock can get by with two.
And yes I do agree that some of the Warlock's most useful spells are in the 3 to 4 range.